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Messages - GendoIkari

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6126
Dominion: Adventures Previews / Re: Preview: Messenger
« on: April 03, 2015, 06:27:50 pm »
The more I think about this, the more it seems really strong. I want to play this in Big Money and wreck your engine. Yeah, I said it. Just dishing out silvers all day long makes my money deck better, your engine... less clear. Definitely looking forward to it, anyway.

Your problem here is that you have to buy a terminal for every Silver you want to dish out, and you don't want many terminals. Once you have 1 or 2 (or less if you have terminal draw), you'd much rather have just a Silver than a Silver and a Messenger.

So I just buy a silver. Really, though, I imagine you can get quite a number of terminals - 3, 4? The silver isn't all that damaging anyway, it's more that it's not so helpful. And I, the money player, get to open triple Silver, following up with quite a bit more. I get my deck quite thick with silvers nice and quickly. And it's quite a while before I would rather have no Messenger than Messenger. Also, I have a decent amount of pile control for a money deck.

But you don't get Silver any quicker than you would by just buying Silver normally.

6127
Question for playtesters: How did you playtest this expansion? Did you just pick 10 Kingdoms out of the 235 (I thought it was 236, but others say 235) Kingdom cards, and keep doing that until the new cards came up? Did you start with Base+Adventures? Adventures alone? Did you go "I think this combo has potential/is broken" and pick a kingdom to test that idea?

I'm trying to figure out how best to learn this expansion myself when I can get my hands on it.

Not at all. I didn't want to play any game that didn't have 2 events, and all 10 cards chosen from Adventures.

6128
Dominion: Adventures Previews / Re: Preview: Messenger
« on: April 03, 2015, 05:25:48 pm »
The more I think about this, the more it seems really strong. I want to play this in Big Money and wreck your engine. Yeah, I said it. Just dishing out silvers all day long makes my money deck better, your engine... less clear. Definitely looking forward to it, anyway.

Your problem here is that you have to buy a terminal for every Silver you want to dish out, and you don't want many terminals. Once you have 1 or 2 (or less if you have terminal draw), you'd much rather have just a Silver than a Silver and a Messenger.

6129
Dominion: Adventures Previews / Re: Preview: Giant
« on: April 03, 2015, 05:20:49 pm »
Whether Giant is mostly a curser or a trasher depends on the situation. Against a thick deck, it's mostly a curser, making the attack not much different from Witch. Against a thin deck, it's mostly a trasher, and the attack is comparable to Knight's (in some ways better, in some ways worse). But the attack only hits once every 2 plays. The average +$3 is better than Dame Sylvia's +$2, but maybe not better than Witch's +2 cards and Sir Destry's +2 cards. This makes me think that Giant will be weaker than those cards, unless there is some way to favourably manipulate the Journey token.

Being weaker than auto-buys doesn't say much about its power level though. I think it'll be good enough to run in the right situations, but not an auto-buy. I like that in a card.

I don't get this... the what matters is the percentage of cards in the opposing deck that cost the right amount. How thin or thick the deck is shouldn't change how often it curses vs trashes.

I think the logic is, a thin deck has gotten rid of estates and coppers and thus generally has a high density of trash able targets and vice versa.

I see. But man, that completely assumes that my strategy of thinning out everything BUT Coppers and Estates isn't being used!

6130
Dominion: Adventures Previews / Re: Preview: Giant
« on: April 03, 2015, 05:15:41 pm »
Whether Giant is mostly a curser or a trasher depends on the situation. Against a thick deck, it's mostly a curser, making the attack not much different from Witch. Against a thin deck, it's mostly a trasher, and the attack is comparable to Knight's (in some ways better, in some ways worse). But the attack only hits once every 2 plays. The average +$3 is better than Dame Sylvia's +$2, but maybe not better than Witch's +2 cards and Sir Destry's +2 cards. This makes me think that Giant will be weaker than those cards, unless there is some way to favourably manipulate the Journey token.

Being weaker than auto-buys doesn't say much about its power level though. I think it'll be good enough to run in the right situations, but not an auto-buy. I like that in a card.

I don't get this... the what matters is the percentage of cards in the opposing deck that cost the right amount. How thin or thick the deck is shouldn't change how often it curses vs trashes.

6131
Dominion: Adventures Previews / Re: Preview: Giant
« on: April 03, 2015, 05:08:16 pm »
This is just totally outclassed by the other cursers, right?

Giant is not usually a curser.  It's a trashing attack that gets to be a Curser if the trashing fails.

You understand my question well enough to answer it, but you'll spend time criticizing the way I posed it and forgo the time it takes to answer what I asked.

I don't read it that way at all... I didn't see his response as a criticism of the way you posed your question; but rather as a good answer to that question. The point is that for something to be outclassed by cursers; that thing generally needs to be a curser. Otherwise you're comparing apples and oranges. The helpful question to ask here is how it compares to other trashers; not how it compares to other cursers.

6132
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Adventures^^
« on: April 03, 2015, 04:44:55 pm »
Quote
Expedition (Event) $3
During this cleanup phase, draw 2 additional cards.
Well, thats funny...



I think your wording is even a little clearer; considering how many people were wondering when Expedition actually happens.

6133
Is there any time when "next time you draw cards" wouldn't be cleanup phase?

Yes! Buy Borrow. Then buy Rats or Cultist (Or Estate with an Inheritance token on Rats or Cultist). Reveal Watchtower to trash the gained card; draw cards. Or buy Catacombs; trashing it with Watchtower, gaining Rats in response; trashing Rats with Watchtower. Similar thing with Hunting Grounds and gaining Estates with Inheritance.

*Edit* Oops, too slow.

6134
"Hooray! I drew an Estate!"
It's all part of Donald's master plan to make Scout a thing

So it seems that Inheritance could actually make Scout a really good buy.

6135
I King's Court an Estate.

Yeah, with Adventures, you can now say "I King's Court an Estate."

6136
So if I have a -1 Card token on my deck and play a Mystic, it'll reveal that -1 Card token, or the card under it?  If it's the latter, that means it removes the token instead of drawing a correctly guessed card?

The -1 Card token does not affect Mystic at all. The token stays on your deck regardless of whether you guessed right.

The -1 Card token only affects three things:

- When a card says +X Cards
- When a card uses the word "draw" (except Envoy, which shouldn't use "draw" but does)
- When you draw your new hand at the end of a turn

Everything else skips past the token and the token stays on your deck.

So for instance, let's say your token is on your deck and you play Catacombs.



You still look at 3 cards. If you choose to put them into your hand, then that's the end and the token stays. If you discard them and get +3 Cards, you'd remove the token and draw 2 cards.

It now matters which order you put the cards back in for Oracle!!

6137
The -1 card token goes on your draw pile, and the time you would draw a card, instead you just take the token off your draw pile. So if you would draw 5 cards, you draw 4 and remove the token. The Action token goes on a supply pile and is not affected by people buying cards from that pile.
And in fact the -1 Card token has text on it, you don't just need to consult the rulebook there. It says something like "When you would draw a card, remove this instead."

What about revealing/looking at cards?

The only time you would place that token on your deck is when you buy the event at the end of your turn, then it is removed immediately when you draw your cards for your next hand, so you would never have to reveal cards while the token is on your deck right?

You are assuming that there aren't other cards or events which refer to the token.

6138
Borrow is a bit confusing with the -1 card token. So I borrow in one turn and have a 4-card hand next turn. If I borrow again next turn with the 4-card hand, do I have only have a 3-card hand next turn?

Lost Action was sort of expected, but I think it's something we all wanted to see. It's cool how you can rebuy the event to move the token around as needed.

Borrow is a bit stranger, but it's another way to even put openings like the Baker Token, plus you can borrow to not miss that key $5 or $3P on the second shuffle. Sounds good.

Inheritance, wow uh, that's quite the event.

The only effect Borrow has is to move the -1 card token to your draw pile (and give you +$1). You only have one -1 card token. The next time you draw, the first card you would draw is replaced with removing the token. It's like you draw the token because that's what's on top, then keep drawing like normal. So you get a 4 card hand if you would have gotten a 5 card hand. Next turn you'll get a 5 card hand unless you Borrow again.

6139
May I move my "+1 action token" buying Lost Arts again later or my token is on my pile for the rest of the game ?

You can buy it again to move it again. Unlike Inheritance, which says "once per game." That one is a permanent decision.

6140
-1 card means that you draw one less card the next time you draw.  After that I assume it goes away.

But it says "once per turn," not "once."

All the events that start with "Once per turn:" mean that you are only allowed to buy that event once per turn. Nothing to do with the effect.

6141
The -1 card token goes on your draw pile, and the time you would draw a card, instead you just take the token off your draw pile. So if you would draw 5 cards, you draw 4 and remove the token. The Action token goes on a supply pile and is not affected by people buying cards from that pile.

6142
So Province on turn 1 is a thing now. I mean, technically it was as soon as Lost City was revealed, but now it's a thing in 2 player games.

How? Borrow only gives you the $+1 once per turn, that doesn't seem enough.

Start with 5 Copper hand. Opponent opens Lost City, Draw Copper #6. $1 from Baker token, $1 from Borrower.

6143
So Province on turn 1 is a thing now. I mean, technically it was as soon as Lost City was revealed, but now it's a thing in 2 player games.

6144
Oh man I'd forgotten about Inheritance amazingly enough. Definitely the most bizarre thing to happen to Dominion. (Since Bazaar). I don't think I ever had a chance to use it, but I spent several minutes just assuming that either JSH or Donald was trolling us.

6145
Dominion: Adventures Previews / Re: Preview: Haunted Woods
« on: April 03, 2015, 09:37:10 am »
Not sure if anyone's mentioned it, but it looks as if this has a pretty nasty combination with Possession.

"Oh, you didn't want a hand of all Copper?  TOO BAD"

Using it to put Copper on their deck probably isn't that smart. It means you didn't spend as much money as you could have to buy yourself a card. I don't think it makes Possession worse really. You leave them with a bad turn, so they buy nothing and Haunted Woods stops working.. that's what would have happened if you hadn't Possessed them anyway, just 1 turn sooner.
I don't understand what you're saying here. They have a bad turn, then you just do the same thing again on your turn (Haunted Woods -> Possession -> put garbage cards on their deck). Thus your opponent has garbage turns every turn for the rest of the game.

They can only do this if your deck is capable of drawing itself. In a typical deck, you're going to have an average hand for them to possess after your dead one. That average hand won't be likely to be able to get 5 dead cards in it. But I suppose it will still be strong with Possession. Could work out more like the Possession/Forge pin though; which is pretty uncommon.

This is indeed a combo with possession. (unlike possession-forge, which has such bizarre requirements it will never work in practice)
I've been on the receiving end of this combo and can confirm it's very painful. The requirements are:

* both possession and haunted woods on the board
* a village
* a way to trash cards

Then you both spot this combo and go for it. One of you will be slightly faster then the other. You will possess, buy a copper, topdeck 5 bad cards and they have a dud turn. You will possess again, and now you get to play with their deck minus the 5 bad cards. That is probably good enough to draw the deck again and voila 5 bad cards on top again. You do need to buy a copper every time you possess them, so you should also include a way to get rid of that copper on your own turns.

All in all it's about on par with Possession-Ambassador and Possession-Masquerade - if you end up on the losing side you simply lose the game.
But if you both accept this race as 'the new game to play' it's still a fun one to play out. Just resign once you're blocked out in stead of letting the agony get to you.
In theory you could hope to buy so many coppers on the turns you still do get to play that your own deck becomes so bad they can't keep it up, but no... no thanks.

The bold part is where I get lost. Why would an average hand be likely to be good enough to draw the deck? Especially in a deck with at least 5 dead cards? Also, on top of needing to be able to draw your opponent's deck, you have to draw your own deck, so that you can reliably play both Haunted Woods and Possession every turn. And if you can draw both your own deck and your opponent's deck reliably, isn't that basically what's needed for the Forge pin? (Plus they need to have a Forge of course).

One other thing, if you do get this working, you wouldn't just need to buy a Copper every turn... you would have played all or most of your opponent's deck, so you could probably buy another Village or other engine piece.

*Edit* Never mind about the Forge thing, I just remembered that they can't actually play any cards for Forge to work; you have to make them draw their entire deck on your own turn with Governor or such.

6146
From the moment I saw Adventures, I thought of it as "Dominion Advanced." Someone else mentioned elsewhere that calling it an expansion undersells it. This is absolutely correct. It's part expansion, part spinoff. I think that games with Adventures will feel like a completely different game. And man, that's without seeing the tokens yet.

6147
Dominion: Adventures Previews / Re: Preview: Messenger
« on: April 02, 2015, 11:13:49 pm »
Quote
Does this mean that there's no way to reveal Trader for Cache to get three Silvers instead?

No, there is. Gain the Cache, trash it with Watchtower, reveal and discard Market Square, gain a Gold, reveal Trader to gain a Silver instead, then gain the two coppers, reveal Trader, gain two Silvers instead.

Also Embargo, Border Village, Haggler.

This is not revealing a Trader for Cache.

6148
Wait a minute, how does Expedition work with Outpost (if you play/buy both on the same turn)? My guess is that you will draw 5 cards (3 because of Outpost, then an extra 2 from Expedition). But it could also be that Outpost tells you specifically to draw 3 cards, so that's what you would have to draw. Outpost doesn't say 2 fewer cards, it says 3 cards.

6149
Dominion: Adventures Previews / Re: Preview: Haunted Woods
« on: April 02, 2015, 10:38:40 pm »
Not sure if anyone's mentioned it, but it looks as if this has a pretty nasty combination with Possession.

"Oh, you didn't want a hand of all Copper?  TOO BAD"

Using it to put Copper on their deck probably isn't that smart. It means you didn't spend as much money as you could have to buy yourself a card. I don't think it makes Possession worse really. You leave them with a bad turn, so they buy nothing and Haunted Woods stops working.. that's what would have happened if you hadn't Possessed them anyway, just 1 turn sooner.
I don't understand what you're saying here. They have a bad turn, then you just do the same thing again on your turn (Haunted Woods -> Possession -> put garbage cards on their deck). Thus your opponent has garbage turns every turn for the rest of the game.

They can only do this if your deck is capable of drawing itself. In a typical deck, you're going to have an average hand for them to possess after your dead one. That average hand won't be likely to be able to get 5 dead cards in it. But I suppose it will still be strong with Possession. Could work out more like the Possession/Forge pin though; which is pretty uncommon.

6150
Dominion: Adventures Previews / Re: Preview: Messenger
« on: April 02, 2015, 10:07:31 pm »
I guess with Trader, it's useful to think that it's preventing you from gaining something and then gaining something itself, rather than changing what you gain.

Absolutely. Trader only causes these confusions because it still ends up gaining a card. But it could also say something like "when you would gain a card, you may reveal this. If you do, trash a card from your hand instead." The card that you gain is not being replaced; the entire gain is.

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