Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length

Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.

Messages - GendoIkari

Filter to certain boards:

Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 363
51
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Prosperity 2E Preview 3
« on: June 12, 2022, 02:54:09 pm »
What makes Collection + Stampede different than Fortress+Bishop, for example? Even if Collection gives far more points-per-turn, that shouldn't matter, should it? All that matters is that you've build a deck which generates any number of points per turn where you don't want to buy any card to add to the deck.

52
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Prosperity 2E Preview 3
« on: June 11, 2022, 04:43:26 pm »
I seem to remember reading this exact same conversation many years ago, when Prosperity first came out and people discovered KC+Goons+Masquerade.

53
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Prosperity 2E Preview 3
« on: June 10, 2022, 08:36:21 pm »
I haven't seen mentions of Collection + Populate. I suppose because Populate is just so expensive compared to something like Stampede. But still, seems a bit nuts.

Well Populate moves the game toward a conclusion. Collection/Stampede is a golden deck.

Ah I see.

Also, Cost reduction + Forum + new Trader... this lets you gain every Silver + every Forum, right? With a couple Collections in play...

54
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Prosperity 2E Preview 3
« on: June 10, 2022, 08:33:37 pm »
I haven't seen mentions of Collection + Populate. I suppose because Populate is just so expensive compared to something like Stampede. But still, seems a bit nuts.

55
And if you forget if you’re playing with rats you are constantly trashing cards with rats, the beggar gives you powerful turn and gives your rats plenty of cards to chew on.

Rats isn't a trasher.

*Edit* and even if it were, your statement would be basically the same as saying "if Chapel is in the Kingdom, you want to be able to gain lots of Coppers so that your Chapel has something to Trash".

56
If Stables and Storyteller are Copper strategy cards then so is Chapel... they're cards that help you deal with the Coppers; not cards that make you want Coppers.

57
Rules Questions / Re: Emissary and Order of Masons
« on: June 07, 2022, 09:35:18 pm »
Notice that this wording that's supposed to maintain Stash 1E's functionality says "set this aside." (And the reason this wording wasn't used is because it's just so wordy for no real gain.)

To maintain the old functionality, [Stash] would be something silly like

$2
Before shuffling cards that include this, set this aside, look at any cards not being shuffled but about to be seen, and after shuffling, put this anywhere in the shuffled cards.

I'd argue that Stash 1E and 2E aren't actually different from each other (just like how Nomad Camp in 2011 is the same as Nomad Camp in 2017), but it's pretty hard to put effort into figuring out how Stash works.

Oh, I didn't know that thread. What I thought 1E Stash does is,

1. shuffle all cards in my discard pile,  including Stash
2. find Stashes from the new shuffled deck, looking at backs
3. reposition found Stashes.

I admit nobody does like this, but this is what I understood Stash literally.

Whereas I always interpreted it as something that happens during the very act of shuffling; due to the fact that you can see the card back, you can "cheat" the shuffle be putting your marked cards wherever you want. The rules text just gives you permission to do what you would naturally be able to do due to them being marked cards.

Though that interpretation was back when it was only Stash. The same thing doesn't work for any of the other cards now being talked about, since they aren't marked in the same way.

58
Rules Questions / Re: Emissary and Order of Masons
« on: June 07, 2022, 11:22:46 am »

What do you think about the -1 Card token scenario?

I for sure agree with you there. The rules for -1 Card token just sound very clear, they cause you to draw 1 fewer card. Whereas, I don't think Star Chart causes you to Shuffle 1 fewer card.

What do you think about Stash? Does Stash ever get shuffled?

I only just realized that Stash isn't just a thought exercise, it's a rules question. If your deck is empty and your discard pile contains nothing other than 1 or more Stashes, and you play Emissary... does it trigger? Did you shuffle at least 1 card?

59
Rules Questions / Re: Emissary and Order of Masons
« on: June 07, 2022, 11:20:04 am »
Slight rant and trying to understand how this works, but in the end I think I agree with Jeebus now. :)

The -1 card token and Enchatress/Ways replace a thing with something else. That is relatively clean, because now you have something else, the previous thing that was about to happen no longer happens, so other things that would apply to it or try to replace it no longer "work".

Star Chart and Astrologer/Masons do not do this clean replacement IMO, because if they did, you couldn't use both Star Chart and one of those 2 Allies on the same shuffle. This is a modifying effect, the "shuffle" isn't replaced with something else, it is modified. For Star Chart, you first select a card and put it somewhere, then do the randomization of the remaining cards (the "shuffle"), then put the selected card on top. But, you can also apply another modifying effect to the randomization, like an Ally. Or you do it in the reverse order, first the Ally, then Star Chart.

For all of this to work as intended, one cannot argue that Star Chart replaces one shuffle with a new, different shuffle. Because if that was the case, you could apply Star Chart again to the new shuffle, and recusively not just topdeck one card, but order the complete deck. While that argument cannot be applied to the Orders alone, I wouldn't want those two to create new shuffles, as this would again allow Star Chart to be applicable to the new shuffle. While this does not really seem to break the game, it seems not good to have those similar effects work in a different way.

All of this means to me, that Star Chart and the 2 Orders are modifying effects, which do not completely replace a shuffle with something else, but they modify the shuffle, and other modifying effects can still apply to modified shuffle.

The question is now what should "shuffle" on Emmissary mean? Does it apply to the first "shuffle" it created, or to any modified versions in between, or only to the "final" one? Originally I argued it should apply to the first one it created, but I see that making it "see" the final one only makes sense as well. If that "shuffle" involved 0 cards due to Order of Masons, then it doesn't give the bonus.

You say you agree with Jeebus, but this entire explanation sounds exactly like what I've been arguing for.

60
Rules Questions / Re: Emissary and Order of Masons
« on: June 06, 2022, 04:53:12 pm »
I prefer to think of Order of Masons as changing the way that shuffling happens, as opposed to replacing shuffling with a different thing. Mostly because I'm reading "when shuffling" as literal, rather than interpreting it as "when you would shuffle". It changes what shuffling looks like so that some of the shuffled cards get randomized into a new draw pile, while other shuffled cards get put into the discard pile. In other words, those 2 cards you put into your discard pile were still "shuffled"; you just used an ability to change the default move-to location that cards normally go to when being shuffled.

First of all, if "when shuffling" is literal, then you would do it after shuffling.

No, that would be "when you shuffle". "When you do X" is after you do X. "When doing X" is during, not after.

Quote
And anyway, you have to do it before shuffling. Do you agree that with Star Chart and Order of Astrologers you do it before shuffling?

No... in fact I don't see how it's at all possible for that to happen before shuffling. You're putting a card "on top"... if you haven't shuffled yet, what are you putting that card on top of? "On top" means "on top of the shuffled cards", right? So shuffled cards must exist to follow that instruction. Those 2 examples read to me even much more clearly than Order of Masons as changing what shuffling looks like, rather than doing an extra thing before or after shuffling. Same as Stash. It allows you to manipulate the shuffle so that instead of being fully random, it's only fully random for some cards and not random for other cards.

Quote
And it's not just the default move-to location. Those cards literally were not shuffled. With Order of Astrologers you even get to put them in the desired order. How is that being shuffled? Seems like a tortured definition of "shuffling".

There's "shuffled" as in "put into a fully random order", and then there's "shuffled" as is how a game's rules can define shuffling. Normally those are the same. But by using various special abilities, such as Stash, a shuffled card or cards can be not put into a fully random order.

Just as a very generic example, if a card game simply had an ability that you could access which said "when shuffling, you can choose the order of your cards", I would expect that when someone does exactly that, it would still trigger any other game events that happen whenever a player shuffles. That player has a special ability so that shuffling isn't random for them.

61
Rules Questions / Re: Not enough Banes
« on: June 06, 2022, 04:43:01 pm »
Why was this not asked back when Cornucopia first came out?
Or, why has it ever been asked?

We mostly seek closure

62
Rules Questions / Re: Emissary and Order of Masons
« on: June 06, 2022, 03:04:31 pm »
I prefer to think of Order of Masons as changing the way that shuffling happens, as opposed to replacing shuffling with a different thing. Mostly because I'm reading "when shuffling" as literal, rather than interpreting it as "when you would shuffle". It changes what shuffling looks like so that some of the shuffled cards get randomized into a new draw pile, while other shuffled cards get put into the discard pile. In other words, those 2 cards you put into your discard pile were still "shuffled"; you just used an ability to change the default move-to location that cards normally go to when being shuffled.

63
Rules Questions / Re: Not enough Banes
« on: June 05, 2022, 08:47:14 pm »
Why was this not asked back when Cornucopia first came out?

64
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Prosperity 2E Preview 3
« on: June 02, 2022, 01:33:45 pm »
As someone mentioned in the previous thread; I’m surprised by the lack of VP token cards. It always felt weird to me that a new mechanic that needed its own tokens was only used for 3 cards in the set. Now with second edition it’s still only 4 cards.

Also surprised that Goons, the card known for generating insanely huge scores, has been replaced with a card that is likely to generate even higher scores. Granted, the loss of the ability to buy Coppers for points might just balance it out; but hard to say.

65
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Prosperity 2E Preview 3
« on: June 02, 2022, 01:09:48 pm »
Nothing gets to be on-buy anymore. It's being phased out everywhere, due to casual players not understanding the distinction between buying and gaining.

And, even for players who understand the distinction, it can be confusing how the timing of on-buy and on-gain effects differ.

Well that’s fixable by making them both happen after the gain.

Wouldn’t this just then be equally confusing to all the players who assume that buy happens first?

Another possibility that would have required a different design from the start; don’t make make buying a card cause a gain. Make “gain” effectively mean “take without buying”. All cards that now say “when you gain” would have to be “when you buy or gain” instead. But then again I’m not a game designer so I wouldn’t trust my opinions here.

66
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Prosperity 2E Preview 3
« on: June 02, 2022, 01:01:57 pm »
Nothing gets to be on-buy anymore. It's being phased out everywhere, due to casual players not understanding the distinction between buying and gaining.

And, even for players who understand the distinction, it can be confusing how the timing of on-buy and on-gain effects differ.

Well that’s fixable by making them both happen after the gain.

Wouldn’t this just then be equally confusing to all the players who assume that buy happens first?

67
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Prosperity 2E Preview 1
« on: June 01, 2022, 10:31:56 pm »
It's part of a standard recommendation: don't put cards with setup instructions in the Black Market deck unless that setup instruction is already included in the kingdom.

That sounds reasonable, but has this ever been stated as an "official" recommendation by Donald/RGG? The original card's FAQ didn't mention anything like this, as there were no other cards with setup instructions back then.

Also, Charlatan does not really have a "setup instruction" as it doesn't add any extra piles/tokens/mats to the game. It only changes the playing rules for Curses, which are in every kingdom anyway.

Indeed there’s a difference between a setup rule and a global rule that applies to the whole game because a card is in use. I think for Charlatan, having it in the Black Market is bad because you have to remember the rule for Curses throughout the game, even though there’s no card in front of everyone with that rule written in it. Also, it just feels like an arbitrary tacked-on rule if it isn’t tied to a normal Kingdom pile, like you might as well just house rule to play with the Curses-as-Coppers rule when you feel like it with or without Charlatan in the Black Market.

For setup rules, I don’t see a great reason to not include them in the Black Market, other than forcing you to look through the Black Market deck before the game begins… and the Black Market rules allow you to play with an unknown Black Market deck if you want.

68
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Interview with Donald X.
« on: June 01, 2022, 10:21:29 pm »
Hi, for the new Hoard I understand why you couldn't switch to on gain, but I was wondering if it could not have been "when you gain in the buy phase" which seems cleaner to me and has fewer commas. I tried racking my head about buy phase broken synergies but couldn't think of one. Thanks.

The types of infinite loops he was concerned with would be exactly the same in the buy phase as in the action phase, wouldn’t they? If you imagine some very basic card such as “this turn, when you gain a Gold, gain a cheaper card”. Such a card would gain you all the Estates and all the Duchies and 16 Golds just for buying a single Estate with Hoard in play.

69
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Really bad card ideas
« on: June 01, 2022, 09:11:07 pm »
University but American

Action - 2<20D>

+2 Actions
Gain an action card costing up to 5

In games using this, actions that normally cost $5 cost $6 instead.

70
Feedback / Re: Chrome Extension for f.ds!
« on: June 01, 2022, 04:50:52 pm »
The 9 new Prosperity cards have been added.

71
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Prosperity 2E Preview 3
« on: June 01, 2022, 04:38:33 pm »
With Hoard, is there some big issue with just being a normal on-gain? Is it only because you didn’t want to change power level with the errata? But why not on-gain from the start?

72
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Prosperity 2E Preview 2
« on: May 31, 2022, 10:54:42 am »
I'm a bit disappointed that the card that secretly has Junk Dealer's stats is now at the same price point as Junk Dealer.

Crystal Ball can’t trash any junk that’s in your hand already though.

73
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Prosperity 2E Preview 1
« on: May 30, 2022, 08:34:27 pm »
War Chest seems a little strange as a treasure, treasures in general either produce , or have effects that require them to be treasures in order to make the most sense (like Horn of Plenty). War Chest as an action with +1 action tacked on would normally play out just the same.

74
Rules Questions / Re: Lich + Duration Attacks
« on: May 25, 2022, 05:32:37 pm »
Correct. You don't get a turn when you normally would, so "your next turn" is after each opponent has had 2.

Interesting. This can make for very strong Lich combos on boards where the Attack cannot be mitigated (e.g. Swamp Hag with no trashing available).


Step 1, play Swamp Hag (with an extra actions).
Step 2, play Blockade, gaining a Curse.
Step 3, play King's Court-King's Court-Lich-Lich-Lich

Step 4, enjoy as your opponents choose to either do nothing for 10 turns in a row, or gain every Curse. Works best in a 3-4 player game, where gaining all the Curses is far worse than a 2-player game, and forces your opponents into a game of chicken where no one wants to buy a card because it helps every other opponent way too much.

Quote
I assume this is a general rule and the "skipped turns" are ignored by all duration cards in play, not just attack durations? E.g. playing a Wharf and a Lich in the same turn still gives you Wharf's duration effect on your next actual (non-skipped) turn.

Yeah, the "Start of your next turn" just doesn't happen until your actual next turn.

75
Beep boop


Quote
Fallen City
Action Duration Attack, $5
At the start of your next turn, +2 Cards +1 Action.

Until then, at the start of another player's Clean-up phase, you may combine a Burden with an action card they would discard from play.


Quote
Burden
Action, $1*
+1 Card
Discard two cards.

(this card is not in the supply)

There are Thirty Burdens in the Non-supply, +10 for each additional player

Where does the non-Burden card come from here? Do you take it away from the player who would discard it, or do you get a copy of it from the supply and use that?

I assume the intent is that the opponent combines their to-be-discarded Action with Burden, making it "worse."

@fika monster: If this is the intent, then this is misworded as the rules for combining are stated, as you'd steal your opponent's card as worded. This is my suggestion, assuming my interpretation of your intent is correct:
Quote
Until then, at the start of each other player's Clean-up phases, you may have them combine a Burden and an Action they would discard from play.

Oh that makes sense, and is a really neat idea for an attack!

Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 363

Page created in 0.131 seconds with 19 queries.