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1

Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread

« on: May 21, 2020, 07:50:35 am »

Cow
$5 - Treasure
Worth $2
When you discard this from play during Clean-up, if you haven't bought any Victory cards this turn, you may put this on top of the deck.


The "no victory card" clause prevents gaining a Province per turn with 4 Cows.
Flavor: Cows are the main measure of wealth in many agricultural societies. "Cash cow" is a kind of business that generates steady profit.
Art: This "Cash Cow" sculpture is located at the entrance to the Happy Hollow park in San Jose, CA.

Treasury is to Cow what Poacher (without empty pile) is to Silver. If your average card is better than Copper, Treasury is better than Cow.

I agree with this comparison, or at least it's conclusion that treasury is better than Cow. Cow seems extremely weak, like bottom 1% of $5 cost cards weak. It is unbuyable in an engine because you don't want silver anyway and its ability is useless to engines. In money even it is super weak because you will never prefer it to gold at $6, and the few times you hit $5 you will usually prefer any terminal action to Cow.

I would suggest lowering the cost to $4, and maybe considering some minor change to make it not strictly better than silver. I think it is balanced (but still on the weak side) at $4 but there is a weak rule against silver+ at $4.

2

Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread

« on: May 19, 2020, 07:31:28 am »

I think Turtle could stand to be more expensive, it is pretty powerful aas it can act as a weird source of +actions on boards without other sources, thus enabling engines. Especially good since you can buy it just when you need it.

Yes, comparing to Tactician, which also sacrifices a turn for the next one, Turtle seems really too strong at $2, since you play the saved actions for free next turn.

It enables you to have a high density of terminal draw in your deck that you can play for free, making it easier to draw your whole deck. With deck in hand, you can just separate a couple of other terminals to turtle again. So, all of your turns could be a Turtle turn, with a lot of cards and free good actions.

For instance, if you have two Turtles and two Catacombs in deck and turtle a Catacombs, you would have a range of 11 cards to find the other Turtle and the other Catacombs to do it again. If you didn’t draw the Turtle, you still can buy one and play. With four Catacombs in deck, if you Turtle two, you would have a range of 17 cards to find the other two Catacombs to turtle again.

I still find it hard to see how it can actually be that strong. In terms of vanilla bonuses it is basically +(X+1) Actions, where X is the number of action cards you delayed. Necropolis is a bad card, and that's X=1; Crossroads without the draw part is one copy of X=2 and isn't considered a very good $2 either. Delaying cards a turn is a very big downside; for example the delayed options of barge and village green are not very good. In the catacombs example, if you replace the 2 Turtles with e.g. 3 squires, your engine draws 2 more cards each turn at the cost of some reliability.

Tactician is also not a very good card unless you have good virtual coin so the downside is minimal. +5 cards +1 action +1 buy, discard say 3 cards is also a lot better than say +3 actions.

I agree that when there aren't any other +Actions it can be very strong as an engine enabler, but I think that is fine as that is true of any good village.

I suppose I would be willing to make it $3 if people still think it's too good, but I think it does compare quite unfavorably to villa at $3.

3

Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread

« on: May 19, 2020, 12:55:32 am »

My entry is an old card I submitted before, and a new card that combos with it.
The old card is Turtle.

Turtle
$2 Night - Duration

Set aside any number of action cards from your hand. At the start of your next turn, play them in any order.
-----
This is gained to your hand (instead of your discard pile).

Road
$4 Action
+2 buys
You may trash this for +$5. If you didn't, discard your hand.
----
While this is in play, cards cost $2 less.

This card is pretty weird. It's a choice between a princess variant and a death cart variant. Note that if you choose the trash option, cards won't cost $2 less because it's not in play.
I am very unconfident about the balance of this card. I think that something reasonable can be made by tweaking the cost and the $ for trashing it. The original version I was thinking of didn't have the death cart option, but I was worried it would be a dead card too often since it required virtual coin to do anything at all. Now it has a built-in way of giving virtual coin, making both options relevant always.

With Turtle, you can get a megaturn by setting aside 4 Roads, and then choosing the discard option on all of them at the start of your turn. Now cards cost $8 less and you have 9 buys, enough to empty the provinces.

The earlier judging claimed that Turtle was too strong in cases where it sets aside 3+ cards, however I think it is fine as it is a big downside to duration you actions and only get them every other turn.

4

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Is Harvest the New Scout?

« on: May 16, 2020, 11:42:00 pm »

With respect to gladiator and fortune, the big reason why buying the gladiator is good is that it can trash the last gladiator revealing fortune on your turn. This makes much easier to be the first player to get access to fortune, and often the first player to play fortune wins because the game becomes so fast at that point with doubled coins.

It is still definitely important that you are happy having a terminal gold in your deck; the fortune thing doesn't make gladiator worth it if you didn't want a terminal gold in the first place.

Buying gladiator to reveal fortune is also reasonable in non-mirror matches where only one player's deck really wants a fortune.

5

Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread

« on: May 15, 2020, 09:57:49 pm »

Cargo Bales has an odd, somewhat confusing phrasing that doesn't follow the phrasing of any other in the game. It also pretty much boils down to always buying a single copy and always playing it, and maybe a second one, because most decks don't want any after the third, which makes it a bit uninteresting.

Thank you, D782802859! You’re right about the two issues. I will change my entry to fix them.

I would recommend removing the whole "first play after put into play" wording. Just let the throne combo exist. It's not that great anyway; throne room is a good card in lots of situations. Any wording for this is horribly awkward and generally it is bad to add a lot of text just to affect a single interaction.

6

Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread

« on: May 13, 2020, 11:01:56 pm »

Split pile: Golden Ages / Dark Ages

Golden Ages
cost $2 - Treasure
+1 Buy
Choose one: Exile a Gold from Supply; or discard a card from your Exile mat.
---
Worth 1vp per 2 Treasures you have on your Exile mat.

Dark Ages
cost $5 - Treasure
Exile any number of cards from your hand.
---
When this is in Supply, when you play a Treasure, +$1 instead of following its effect.


I wanted to do Poacher-like thing.

I think this clause under the line in Dark Ages makes all treasures in kingdom become coppers, doesn't? If what I'm saying is correct, these two cards won't work, since they are treasures themselves.

Yes, intended. (I forgot to put Victory type on Golden Ages)

First, Dark Ages is not in Supply (as Golden Ages is covering).  So someone will buy Golden Ages to get Golds. After Golden Ages are gone, all Treasures are Copper. Now is the Dark Ages. Everyone cannot buy Province, so someone buys Dark Ages. After Dark Ages are gone, now you can play Treasures as usual.

But yes, I'll change Dark Ages to Action card.

I see the intention, however once the golden ages are gone people will just ignore treasures forever and never get dark ages. The problem is that dark ages is not a good card, and more importantly buying the last one is terrible because then your opponent gets the first turn where treasures are turned on. I don't think that any reasonable form of dark ages will cause the pile to empty the way you want except maybe a gladiator-style thing that forces them to leave the supply without buying them.

7

Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread

« on: May 09, 2020, 06:49:06 pm »

Courier - Action - $4
+2$
Gain an Action card to the top of your Deck. Each other player may Exile a copy of the card from the Supply.

I really like this. Not sure about the balance, but seems reasonable as is. It might actually be quite strong.
The main uses will probably be the "only I get a copy" use that messenger has, where you play it, gaining something whose pile you empty by the end of the turn. Notably, it is much easier than messenger to be the only person who gets a copy - all you have to do in run the pile this turn, and their cards are stuck in exile forever.

Any reason why there is a "may"? Seems unnecessary; it is very hard for an Exiled Action to hurt you.

8

Rules Questions / Re: Considering Trader errata

« on: May 07, 2020, 03:46:52 am »

I am personally a fan of the silly 4+ card infinite combos, so I am a little sad to see this change. This also looks like the end of the blue dog rule, which is one of my favorite pieces of dominion rules trivia.

Otherwise it does look like it makes normal interactions cleaner and less weird.

9

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions

« on: May 05, 2020, 03:04:16 pm »

Kiln + Border Village

With a few cantrips/sources of nonterminal draw in hand, a Kiln and Border village in hand can empty both piles in one turn.
Play a Kiln
Play border village gaining border village and klin
Play a cantrip/other nonterminal draw to draw whichever of kiln and border village you didn't draw with the border village.
Repeat

You need to start with a border village or other source of +action so the first kiln isn't terminal, and you need to draw your deck.
You can run the loop once per cantrip in hand, or in expectation 1.5 times per lab in hand.
I just had a game where scrying pool was the nonterminal draw, kiln was the only gainer/+buys, and gained 6 of each in one turn.

10

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Infinite Loops List

« on: May 02, 2020, 09:04:03 pm »

In the loop you posted there are only four different named cards in play when you play Horn of Plenty, so you can't gain Mandarin, but I think it can be fixed (with Canal, for example). About this loop, however, I have a doubt: from your deck with a total of 9 cards, how you manage to control that exactly these 5 will be in your hand?

For the loop in Donate phase, you have also to trash something like Catacombs or Hunting Grounds to gain a card and react with Sheepdog. But how can you play a card with Vassal in Way of the Mouse if you still didn't shuffle your hand into your deck? (Edited: I found the answer. See post below)

I think a loop in your Opponent's phase depends on what she played, don't? So, to setup the initial conditions for loop is out of control. Anyway, I would like to know if there's a loop in opponent's phase that don't use any of the enablers of the new list.

I assume for all of these loops we put a few cards that let you trash down and draw your deck and stuff. Just imagine I played a giant village - smithy style engine to get there with topdeck/discard control; it solves the horn of plenty cards in play thing and can easily get you enough deck control to get that specific hand and deck.

Opponent's phase only depends on you being able to react with one of caravan guard, black cat, or sheepdog. Clean-up and night phase can be accomplished by gaining a card in either of those phases; e.g. vampire and hermit. You then react with sheepdog and do the same thing as in the donate one.

11

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Infinite Loops List

« on: May 01, 2020, 08:54:23 pm »

I will note that it is possible to get infinite loops in every phase, including your opponent's phases and the between turns donate phase, due to reacting with sheepdog as way of the vassal hitting some throne room. From the throne room you can create some of the action phase loops described.

Here is a loop that uses none of the cards in the new list:

hand is crown, mandarin, your favorite treasure, horn of plenty, black market
deck is crown, mandarin, your favorite treasure, horn of plenty
play a black market
  play a crown
    play mandarin as way of the horse
    play mandarin as way of the horse
  play your favorite treasure
  play horn of plenty, gaining mandarin
  repeat

12

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Infinite Loops List

« on: May 01, 2020, 01:20:06 am »

I think it is more productive to list loops that use only one distinct card from our current short list of cards required for inifinite loops, since there are a lot of similar loops using the same card. Anyway here are a few.

Mandarin only loop

play scepter playing lurker. gain mandarin from the trash, reveal watchtower to trash it. two scepters and your favorite treasure are topdecked.
play your favorite treasure
play scepter playing smithy, drawing the two scepters and your favorite treasure.

Mint only loop

buy a mint, reveal trader to keep it in the supply
buy toil, playing crown
  play crown twice
    play scepter playing treasurer twice, gaining 2 crowns to hand
    play scepter playing treasurer twice, gaining 2 scepters to hand
Use travelling fair or seaway or something for the buys (this loop currently nets +$5 and -1 buys).

13

Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread

« on: April 26, 2020, 09:04:19 pm »

Farrier (name taken I know but..)
$6 Action
Gain 3 horses to your hand
It's like a Smithy, but for later, unless you have a village.

I think Aquila warned against Horse gaining to hand in his guide, because it has the same problems as +1 Card tokens; you would just always use them immediately if you could. That said, this is a neat idea imo.

It's more than a smithy, it's a double smithy. If you have an action left, it is +6 cards effectively, which is pretty OP. I think 2 instead of 3 is probably more balanced.

14

Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread

« on: April 26, 2020, 07:43:30 pm »

Farrier (Treasure, $5)

+$2
+1 Buy
------
While this is in play, when you buy a card, gain a Horse.

Seems very OP. It's nearly strictly better than grand market and way better than livery, which is already pretty busted on the right board. This card makes up for livery's main two weaknesses (terminal and lack of +buy) making it spammable and super strong on every board.

I would suggest maybe make it produce $1 instead of $2 and raise the price to $6.

15

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Cards essential to infinite loops

« on: April 25, 2020, 07:50:54 pm »

Way of the Horse definitely works but horses and experiments don't. The key is Way of the Horse can return a card that was throned, and thus can allow you to play any action and return that action to the supply. Horse and Experiment just let you return themselves to the supply, they can't cause other actions to get returned.

If it is the only way that Way of the Horse could be an infinite-loop enabler, it also doesn't work, since you still have to remove Throne Room from play.

It is still possible with just Way of the Horse, since it can in fact remove the throne itself. Consider the following position:

3x cost reduction from bridge/highway.
king's court is in play, and just played another king's court.
deck and discard are empty. hand contains only a single ironworks.

first play of kc: way of the horse, returning it
second play of kc: ironworks
 first play of ironworks: gain ironworks
 second play of ironworks: gain kc
 third play of ironworks: way of the horse, returning it and drawing ironworks and kc.
third play of kc: kc

end position is exactly identical to the start, except you have more +actions.

16

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Cards essential to infinite loops

« on: April 25, 2020, 07:00:43 pm »

Another thing: Buying a Mint trashes treasures in play, which probably can be used to set up infinite combos. So we need to add Mint to the list.

I thought it before, but now I don´t think it works, since you have to remove the treasures from trash. You can do it with Treasurer, but in this case you will need another of these enablers to remove Treasurer from play.

Mint can be your enabler for removing treasurer, since it is a treasure with capitalism.

Of the 11 cards listed there, I am pretty sure that most of them can't actually form infinite loops, since I don't think a card that just returns itself is sufficient; it needs to get the other combo pieces out of play.

In particular, I don't see any way in which Madman, Spoils, Wish, Experiment, Horse, or Fortress would suffice.

Thus, I would guess that the list is just:
Mandarin
Mint
Way of the Butterfly
Way of the Horse
Fortress
Bonfire
Forum

With Way of the Horse, any action becomes a Horse, so if it works Horse itself has to work. And so, also Experiment.

Way of the Horse definitely works but horses and experiments don't. The key is Way of the Horse can return a card that was throned, and thus can allow you to play any action and return that action to the supply. Horse and Experiment just let you return themselves to the supply, they can't cause other actions to get returned.

17

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Cards essential to infinite loops

« on: April 25, 2020, 06:28:52 pm »

Of the 11 cards listed there, I am pretty sure that most of them can't actually form infinite loops, since I don't think a card that just returns itself is sufficient; it needs to get the other combo pieces out of play.

In particular, I don't see any way in which Madman, Spoils, Wish, Experiment, Horse, or Fortress would suffice.

Actually Fortress is involved in the Priest + Travelling Fair + Advance + Fortress combo, so maybe Fortress is needed. This combo actually doesn't involve removing cards from play ever; Fortress is needed for the reason of triggering "when you trash" an infinite number of times.

Another thing: Buying a Mint trashes treasures in play, which probably can be used to set up infinite combos. So we need to add Mint to the list.

Thus, I would guess that the list is just:
Mandarin
Mint
Way of the Butterfly
Way of the Horse
Fortress
Bonfire
Forum

18

Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread

« on: April 17, 2020, 05:09:56 pm »

Workshop of Plenty
Treasure $0*
Gain a card costing less than this.
-
This costs $1 more per card you have in play.

It's a weird Horn of Plenty variant.
It gains provinces, and you don't even have to trash it, but you need 9 cards in play (which admittedly is easier than HoP's 8 distinct). But it has the catch that if you are doing that, it also costs at least $9 to buy another one, so they are quite hard to get. Note that a big difference between this and HoP is that it can't gain itself, since it never costs less than itself.
Early game it is basically a workshop, although you have to draw a lot of coppers with it to gain $4s.
It might be OP; the main fix I would have then is to make it an Action, which nerfs it quite hard I think. If people just think the province gaining is OP, it could have HoP's trashing restriction.
I want a better name if anyone has a suggestion.

19

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Really bad card ideas

« on: April 15, 2020, 04:02:04 am »

Time Vault
$2 Action - Reserve

Put this on your tavern mat. Take an extra turn after this one.
-------
At the start of your turn, you may call this, to go directly to your Clean-up phase.
This is gained to your tavern mat (instead of your discard pile).

This might actually be an interesting card to play with! It's weird, but it might work, with a few adjustments -- sort of a reverse-order Guide. Perhaps make it a cantrip, like Guide, and change the wording to Throne-proof it (e.g. You may put this on your Tavern mat, if you did, take an extra turn after this one).

It in fact is still super broken even after throne proofing. In particular, anything that lets you change the gain location of a card (watchtower, royal seal, artisan, etc) immediately breaks it by putting it anywhere that isn't your tavern mat.

20

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Dominion: Menagerie

« on: April 13, 2020, 07:40:23 am »

No. When you play a card as a way, it counts as having played that card, for any cards that care (such as crossroads).

21

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions

« on: April 12, 2020, 08:26:06 am »

Way of the horse + Lackeys. $2 for a horse and two villagers is pretty bonkers.
Way of the horse + Death cart. $4 for 2 horses and a one shot platinum is also pretty bonkers.
Way of the horse + any throne. Honestly just buying a random $2 action for the sole purpose of throning it as a horse can be quite good in many situations if +buy/cheap gains are easy to get.

Mastermind + supplies. Supplies guarentees you start the turn with a horse in hand, and horses are one of the best things to mastermind.

22

Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread

« on: April 12, 2020, 07:55:57 am »

Sexton

Sexton — ($4)(Action)
Look through your discard pile. Choose one: trash exactly 2 cards from your discard pile; or +1 Action and put a card from your discard pile into your hand.

Sexton seems really weak. Your discard pile is empty way too often. With the discard the top card of your deck it is much stronger, but probably still weak.
I think it is also a bit too swingy as an opener: With about 40% chance you draw it turn 4 and trash 2 from discard, better than steward; otherwise it is a worse lookout with the buff and a ruined village without.

Here is an upgraded version of my previous card. You can buy a treasure yourself if this card is in your hand for a free play of it in your next turn. There's a sort of tension in that Prospectors are like Peddlers most useful for building treasure-less decks but you need someone to buy treasures to benefit from the non-terminal version of Prospector.
I am leaning towards thinking that "buy" is a necessary hobbling rather than simply "gain" but gain would open up a lot of possibilities... so open to thinking about it.



Oh poo. It should say set this aside from your hand. I'll fix it soon.

I think Prospector is probably weak and better with on gain instead of on buy; you really don't want to buy treasures much and a $2 caravan guard isn't that strong anyway.

23

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Really bad card ideas

« on: April 12, 2020, 06:51:06 am »

Time Vault
$2 Action - Reserve

Put this on your tavern mat. Take an extra turn after this one.
-------
At the start of your turn, you may call this, to go directly to your Clean-up phase.
This is gained to your tavern mat (instead of your discard pile).

24

Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread

« on: April 01, 2020, 12:39:01 am »

Turtle
$2 Night - Duration

Set aside any number of action cards from your hand. At the start of your next turn, play them in any order.
-----
This is gained to your hand (instead of your discard pile).


It can both save you from terminal collisions, and act as a village by setting aside cards with +Action.

25

Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread

« on: March 29, 2020, 02:03:09 am »

Way of the Recession

Follow this card's instructions, then exchange it for a card costing less than it.

It definitely has ways to create infinte combos, since it gets your cards out of play, but they are pretty hard to pull off so I think it is fine.

The exchanging (versus trash and gain) should make it harder to use this on the last turn to empty piles which is needed since it allows you to "gain" many cards in one turn.