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51

Dominion General Discussion / Re: THE Dominion Card List(s): Your Favourite Cards

« on: June 15, 2012, 01:34:24 pm »

This list was compiled pretty soon after Governor was released.  I definitely ranked it very high, much much higher than I would today.  It's a cool, fun card to play when you're starting to use it.  After hundreds of games, it's far more frustrating.

52

General Discussion / Re: Euro 2012

« on: June 11, 2012, 09:41:20 pm »

France/England was boring, but it was an interesting sort of boring, if that makes sense.

There wasn't any significant tactical shift over the game.  There wasn't anything tremendously surprising.  France played cagey, possession-oriented football, while England seems to have very quickly adopted a classic Hodgson two-banks-of-four style.  That's all exactly as expected.  But it was tense, thanks to the importance of the occasion.  And maybe it's just me, but I find that sort of battle to be interesting to watch.  I understand enough about tactics to be able to actually follow what they're trying to do, but not enough that it's just totally boring to me.

53

Dominion Articles / Re: Governor

« on: June 11, 2012, 09:35:01 pm »

You guys realize that alchemist is worse than lab, right?

Man, alchemist is the whipping boy of these forums recently. Perhaps he needs his own article. (Not by me. My strategy is not to buy him.)

Your strategy is to not buy anything because you have quit Dominion forever.

54

General Discussion / Re: Euro 2012

« on: June 09, 2012, 02:07:00 pm »

how good were Denmark!

uhhh...not very. they were bossed around the field most of the game. they allowed 32(!) shots, but the dutch only put 5 on frame. easily could have been 5-1.

Disagree.  I would say the game was fairly balanced.  The Dutch took a lot of bad shots.  And the Danish defenders were fantastic closing down opportunities.  I will let Robben take pot shots from 20 yards all night long.  Robben hit the post once, Huntelaar had that glorious opportunity at about 70 minutes, and RVP might have put away a couple half-chances.  But Denmark could have scored one or two more, too.

Denmark had a game plan, they executed it, and it worked.  They got a little bit lucky, but you always need a bit of luck to get 3 points.

55

General Discussion / Re: Euro 2012

« on: June 09, 2012, 12:31:18 pm »

I read your last post on your blog, olneyce, and I predicted the same semi-finalists as you did.
However, Germany can't face the Netherlands in the semi-finals since they will be:
winner (1. of A vs. 2. of B) - winner (1. of C vs. 2. of D)
winner (2. of A vs. 1. of B) - winner (2. of C vs. 1. of D)

Hmmm, it isn't even that I just assumed it had the same format as 2008.  I actually went and checked the bracket to make sure.  And I STILL got it wrong. 

Well, good.  The other system was silly.

56

General Discussion / Re: Euro 2012

« on: June 09, 2012, 03:54:08 am »

I try not to do too much self-linking, but I figure it's reasonable here.  At my blog I'm doing semi-daily commentaries about the tournament.  And I have my German friend to provide the continental perspective.

http://www.heartachewithhardwork.com/

Come by, comment, argue, etc. 

57

Dominion Isotropic / Re: Putting Your Opponent Out of His/Her Misery

« on: June 08, 2012, 02:17:24 pm »

I'm really perplexed by your strategy in the linked game.  Why buy Gardens when you have a Minion deck???  Gardens wants bloated decks and Minion wants exactly the opposite.  I guess you had some unlucky distribution and didn't get to use your Minions for money a few times.  But it seems like once you have a Spice Merchant you can trash your deck down, buy two Lighthouses and get up to $8 pretty regularly.  And, you can have a revolving Lighthouse play which means most turns you can't get hit by the attacks.

58

General Discussion / Re: Euro 2012

« on: June 08, 2012, 01:43:59 pm »

That's one of the worst sending-offs I've ever seen. The first wasn't even a foul and the second was barely so.

You mean the first yellow card? Was clearly a foul I thought, he had his elbow out and was pushing the Polish guy down. The second was very harsh, though if he gives a foul he is pretty much forced to give a card too (preventing a break with a foul).

If the first is a foul then there is a foul on virtually every single contested header in the entire game. Which, to be fair, might actually be true.  But the game isn't called that way.

To make something like that a yellow is just crazy.

59

General Discussion / Re: Euro 2012

« on: June 08, 2012, 01:28:04 pm »

That's one of the worst sending-offs I've ever seen. The first wasn't even a foul and the second was barely so.

I'm rooting against Greece, but that's just ridiculously harsh.

And now Greece has a penalty.  Preposterous!

60

Dominion Isotropic / Re: Isotropic is still down

« on: June 07, 2012, 10:14:19 pm »

Nooo!  Today was my last day of class and I don't need to start grading papers until next week.  I was going to spend tomorrow lounging around watching the soccer and playing Dominion.  It was going to be awesome.

Devastating.

61

Goko Dominion Online / Re: ZOMGZ The Dominion Online website is doing something!

« on: June 06, 2012, 09:52:34 am »

Yeah, count me as agreeing with both 'sides' of the conversation here.  I really really think it's important to have a record of the last turn or two for online play.  Because frankly, a lot of people take forever (myself included - I am a very slow player!) and it's simply not reasonable to expect someone to sit through an entire Scrying Pool turn just to figure out what they gained with their Workshop in the middle of it.  So my impulse is to say that I don't like this policy.

That said, I am pretty sure the final product is going to be good.  It will not be exactly what I want.  But I don't expect any deviations from Isotropic to be simply random.  If they make changes, they will have reasons for those changes.  I'll probably like some and dislike others.  Given the market it will be targeted at, it will certainly include features that I consider superfluous or annoying. 

OTOH, given the level of commitment the people involved with Dominion have shown to interacting with us here, the extent to which they bend over backwards to engage with the big fans, I have a feeling that the concerns of this audience will be seriously considered and not merely tossed aside.

Threads like this, when they involve making constructive statements about what we would like to get out of the game, are fine.  But pure speculation and complaints based on the anticipation of poor implementation, not so much.  Especially when Donald says 'it'll be okay,' I am 100% willing to take his word for it until we actually get the product.  At that point, if I don't like it, I will certainly be willing to say so.  But for now, I'll be cautiously optimistic.  And thanks again Donald for stopping by here so regularly to let us know what you can.

62

Dominion Articles / Re: Questions on Mining Village

« on: June 04, 2012, 04:34:06 pm »

Well, think about it this way: it costs $1 more than a regular Village, but gives you $2 more at a time that it's most likely to be beneficial.  If you think you have a good chance of trashing these in a useful way at the end of the game, it's certainly more valuable than a vanilla Village.

If, however, you anticipate not getting a mega-turn or something - or you think the end-game will be less obvious - you may end up over-spending at the beginning and then never recuperating the cost.

If Mining Village is the only village, I will happily treat it as a simple village and not worry about trashing it until the very very end..  But it's almost always the case that once the end-game starts in you actually need less villages and the $2 bonus can be very helpful.  So in general, I'd say err on the side of trashing more.

63

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Which Cards are the least fun?

« on: June 04, 2012, 12:03:22 am »

I hate Tournament so much it would be a crime to mention any other card in the same breath. It... is... so... random. I mean, in theory, it would be a lot of fun, where maybe I get to connect them first so I get Followers, but then you get Trusty Steed and Princess, and then I get Bag of Gold... in reality, NO. I get Followers and Trusty Steed and Bag of Gold because you went second or got a bad shuffle, you poor bastard. Oh, you want +1 card +$1? Too bad, I got my Province first. Squat for you, sucker. Ugh.

Wish I could +1 this about seven million times.

I actually really like the idea of a Tournament card - but the way it stacks is just so irritating.  It has nothing to do with 'swinginess' in the sense that implies randomness.  I totally get that Tournament is not a simple card to play, and there is quite a bit of strategy to doing it right given the board.  Doesn't change the way it's annoying.  The fact that Followers also mucks up your own deck a little bit actually makes it WORSE.  Because it means the actual game takes that much longer to complete - even if the chance of recovering remains quite small.

If there were two copies of each Prize, one for each player, it might be a lot more tolerable.

The only three cards I simply hate are Tournament, Possession, and Familiar. 

I intensely dislike Fool's Gold, Minion, etc. for the reasons explained above.  But I do get joy out of winning when there's something interesting to do with them on a given board.  When I win with Tournament, Possession, or Familiar I just feel bad.

Really, Tournament is the worst, though.  With Possession, I at least get that it creates some very interesting strategic space that you wouldn't get otherwise.  I don't LIKE that space, but I get it.  And Familiar I now understand is not as powerful as it initially seems (though the problem remains that if both players go for it and one only hits $2P, they're pretty much toast).  Tournament is just a silly, aggravating card.

64

Dominion General Discussion / Re: What cards are the most fun?

« on: June 03, 2012, 02:55:55 am »

When those 'most liked card' lists from Qvist eventually see the light of day, I predict Wharf will be very high.  Unlike many of the other ones, I can't really imagine people DISliking Wharf.  I get huge hands to do awesome things?  Awesome. I get extra buys so that I can use all this money?  Even better.

Like several others here, I also really like Black Market.  Though I often feel like I ought to hate it.

65

Dominion General Discussion / What cards are the most fun?

« on: June 02, 2012, 09:51:44 pm »

I'm curious to hear what people consider their favorite cards.  Use whatever criteria you'd like.  But basically what I'm looking for is the cards that make you most excited to see pop up in a newly-composed game.  It could be because they enable awesome turns, because they are interesting and unique in how they work, because they force games in the direction that you most prefer (i.e. - engine folks almost always hope to see a village), or even just because you happen to be very good at playing that card.

I bet that a lot of the favorites are among the most-hated cards for others.  King's Court, Goons, Possession, etc.  Some people love them and others loathe them.

I answered this question as part of the DS tournament 6 months ago, but my opinions have changed a bit since then, so I'll list five here:

Ambassador - It's an evil, evil card.  And it is incredibly frustrating to get on the wrong side of it.  But I really enjoy seeing it these days because it means the game is very likely going to reward some serious strategic thinking, not just good tactical play.

Watchtower - It's often a fairly dead card, but I LOVE games when Watchtower has a chance to shine.  Watchtower-driven engines are enormously fun once they get going.  It really only works when you need both features of the card.  You use the draw power to keep working through your deck, and then you top-deck all the key components to ensure the next turn works just as well.  And the best part is, you're quite resilient to most attacks.  With Watchtower in hand, handsize reducers often HELP you and cursing attacks are meaningless.

This game was particularly fun: http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120524-104340-347e6fbf.html

Menagerie - This is one of those cards that frustrates me a fair amount (when my opponent isn't building around it but just happens to luck into perfect hands), but in spite of that it's a really fun card.  It's obviously very powerful, but there's just a lot of fun in building the incredibly diverse deck.  Some of my favorite games ever are Menagerie-Black Market ones.  You can just go completely nuts.

Fishing Village - This one is pretty obvious.  Some decks will prefer to have Worker's Village for the +buy, or lack in +cards from other sources and so don't want to lose hand-size while playing villages.  But if you want a village in the kingdom, more often than not you'd prefer it be this one.

Apprentice - Lets you trash Estates early, silver in the mid-game, and Provinces at the end.  And all kinds of other things.  I like the way Apprentice-heavy games can putter along for a bit and then simply explode.

Honorable mentions: Vineyard, Apothecary, Wharf, Horn of Plenty, Scheme

66

Game Reports / Re: How lucky did I get?

« on: May 30, 2012, 05:13:13 pm »

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201205/30/game-20120530-135641-3be870ed.html

Here's another one.

I'm playing First, who on turn 5 plays a Royal Seal and top-decks Border Village-Margrave, and then hits me with the handsize-reducer/Masquerade combo.  At this point, I decide that I'm basically dead in the water.  By turn 10, he's bought two Provinces, and is playing his full attack every turn, buying more Golds, more Border Villages, etc. 

I almost resign at that point but decide to stick it out.  I actually passed him my Potion at one point because everything else was a key engine part and I thought he wouldn't want it. And I was right - he sent it right back.  I think we both were just biding time at that point.

And then, I run into a vein of incredibly good luck.  His villages stop matching up with his drawing cards, he realizes he's overbought money when he should have been continuing to improve his engine to make it fire every turn.  And I realize that Scrying Pools are uniquely well suited to recovering from his attack.  Even if he hits with the Margrave/Masq combo, I can keep two cards in hand that have a very good chance of drawing many more and save one dead spot to pass back and forth.  Whereas his BV/Margrave engine depends on multiple cards aligning.  When you're only really playing with two-card hands, that's hard to make work.

Suddenly I realize that I'm drawing my whole deck every turn while he isn't.

Now, it took some seriously bad luck for his cards to align so poorly.  But how bad?  And while he acknowledged that it was dumb to buy so many Golds, it probably shouldn't have mattered, right?  Or is Scrying Pool really that powerful?

67

Dominion Isotropic / Re: Is there cheating going on? I've been noticing some fishy things.

« on: May 30, 2012, 12:23:13 pm »

...It's arguable whether it's cheating...

It's CLEARLY against the rules.

Why? It would just be tracking info you know anyway. Isn't it pretty much the same situation as a point counter? (Edit: And arguably a point counter is against the rules too.)

Point counter is clearly against the rules, and this is worse.

Is it really worse than a point counter? If I had to choose between knowing current points and knowing my draw deck contents, I'd choose points in nearly every game.

Edit: My point is really just that tracking known info is not nearly on the same level as, say, buying a platinum turn 1. I happily play with point counter already, and I'd happily play with draw deck tracking too, but I'd never want to play a variant where you can buy plat turn 1.

I can keep track of my points in my head a lot easier than I can keep track of what is where in my deck. Usually, at least.

Which is to say: if I could get one of them automated and have to focus on the other, I'd almost always choose card locations to be the automated one.

68

Dominion Isotropic / Re: Is there cheating going on? I've been noticing some fishy things.

« on: May 28, 2012, 04:58:26 am »

I am extremely doubtful that there is extensive cheating going on, that has only been noticed by the two of you.  I'm not sure what IS happening, but it just seems wildly improbable that you'd have enough of these games to frustrate you, when literally not a single one of the hundreds of thousands played by the regular posters here have had the same thing happen.

Unless there is something specific going on with your account somehow?  I don't really understand programming enough to even know if that would be possible but that's all I can come up with.

If you could find a game log, it would really help the diagnosis. 

69

Dominion General Discussion / Re: A little running joke between me and theory

« on: May 26, 2012, 12:54:17 am »

TheBride plays a Bishop.
... getting +$1 and +1 ▼.
... TheBride trashes a Marriage and gets +(∞ - 1)/2  ▼.

 

proof that playing dominion too ruthlessly can destroy a marriage.

What is the point of Bishoping it if you would get more points playing it?

Probably a Golem accident.

Wouldn't be the first time a Golem has ruined a marriage.

70

Dominion General Discussion / Re: A little running joke between me and theory

« on: May 25, 2012, 05:30:01 pm »

That is the most awesome thing I have seen in a very long time. 

71

Game Reports / How lucky did I get?

« on: May 25, 2012, 03:55:41 pm »

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201205/25/game-20120525-123723-9e184b6b.html

Played this game with Marin.  We both dipped into the Black Market.  I got Tournament (which is of course one of the best cards to get from the Black Market for obvious reasons), Governor, and Apprentice.  He got Forge and Crossroads. 

Hamlet was the only other village in the BM deck.  The other key action cards in the regular supply were Wharf, Goons, Stables, Cartographer.

Given what we drew, it forced different strategies. The +actions from Crossroads were huge.  It meant he could trash down and produced an engine that could draw most of his deck most turns - but which was short on cash.  My only +actions were from Trusty Steed.  That, the lack of trashing, and the desire to get Provinces to start picking up prizes, meant I started investing in Provinces.

I was hoping to regularly play Governor and then force a discard with Followers or Goons.  But it quickly became clear to me that the dearth of actions meant I really had limited options.  If I wanted to use the Wharves to prevent routine dead hands, I couldn't afford to spend other actions very often.

Definite mistakes I made: 1) not getting Bank earlier, to bump up my purchasing power.  2) not taking Hamlet when I drew it from the BM deck on turn 12.  I didn't even realize I had missed it until I went back to look at the log.  In retrospect, that's a huge error and would have really secured things for me.  Problem of being on autopilot.

Possible mistakes I made: 1) not taking Followers in my first couple prizes.  Marin was convinced that this was a big error, but I'm not really sure.  The lack of actions meant I wouldn't be able to play it easily.  And, since he was regularly drawing everything, he could probably overcome the hand-size reduction and then trash the Curse all on the next turn.  Meanwhile, playing Followers would often mean NOT playing Wharf, which was more important for me, I think.  Or Goons, which is probably better than Followers - since it gives VPs and the Estates were more likely to clog me up than the Curses were him.  2) Not using Apprentice more aggressively earlier?  Should I have killed a Province or two in the effort to end the game quicker?  I'm not really sure WHERE I would have done this, though.  I was generally oscillating between complete dead hands and drawing most of my deck.

Marin felt like he played as well as he possibly could.  Do people agree?  I thought he did a great job of putting things together given his own action limitations, but are there places he could have maximized more?  It seemed to me like there were a few places where he used Forge rather than playing his second Goons that might have been wrong.  Turn 17 in particular?  I'm not sure, but it seems like maybe getting more VPs there is the key thing - and it might set him up to Forge/buy the last few Provinces on the next turn. 

72

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Getting discouraged with the game

« on: May 25, 2012, 03:01:49 am »

The puzzles always completely flummox me.  I don't think it has all that much to do with skill at the game.  Probably a moderate correlation, but certainly no clear causation.

73

Introductions / Re: albany ny yo

« on: May 24, 2012, 06:25:59 pm »

Hey, I actually like Revolution 9.  Of course, it does stretch the definition of "song".

So the Possession analogy is perfect.  Interesting thought experiment: how could we completely blow up the idea of the song/game.  Up is down, left is right, good hands are bad hands, block that kick...

74

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Why is the Golden deck green?

« on: May 24, 2012, 05:46:59 pm »

Variations on the Golden Deck are fun.  I had this game recently:
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120517-235310-83717144.html

Double Tactician, with University and Bishop and Ambassador.  Shuttle Curses over to the opponent, grab cards with the University and then trash them with the Bishop.  Gain a few VP every turn AND muck up your opponent's deck.  I'm not really sure it's the optimal strategy, but it was fun to play.

75

Dominion General Discussion / Re: What's the difference between a level 30 and a level 40 player?

« on: May 17, 2012, 08:38:15 pm »

I tried to come up with a few must-buys, and he patiently shot them all down one-by-one, even sea hag and (sort of) king's court. 

The existence of Ironworks-Gardens/SR is trivial proof that no card is a true must-buy.  Barring these sorts of rush strategies, in my experience Goons and Ambassador come closest.

Wharf. You almost always want wharf, unless you're really really mega-rushing. Cursers, too though.

Just had a game today where Wharf and Goons were on the board with some good trashing (including Mint) and no villages.  It seemed pretty obvious by the end that Goons was a trap and the pure money+Wharf+Minting Platinums was the way to go.