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5651
Council Room Feedback / Re: Achievements inaccurate?
« on: November 14, 2011, 02:27:22 pm »
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20111027-162638-ba20c9e9.html

I bought only 5 different green cards in this game, but I got the Mr Green Genes award which I hadn't before.
So it seems there are more miscalculations.

5652
That was my intention. It works quite well. But then I tried to make it better for 4/3 openings. Steward would work best I think, but it doesn't work. It trashes Fool's Gold although it is in the buy rules.

5653
Simulation / Re: Dominion Simulator available for download!
« on: November 09, 2011, 10:07:32 am »
I just looked into this great simulator. Kudos, I like it very much.
Especially the conditions you can add for the buy priority are very quick to setup.

But I have a suggestion too. I'm referring to this:
There really needs to be a way to set card trashing priority. For action heavy strategies and all that. I can't imagine this would be that hard to implement, but of course I know almost nothing about programming. Couldn't you just make a button (similar to Chapel's playstrategy button) and ask the user to set the trash priority? Have it set to whatever the default is normally, and then just reset the variable, right?
Might do this, but I'd need a compelling reason. Please give me a good example where this would be useful.

It would be great to define or modify the Trash and Discard Priority. I just tried several strategies and realised that Fool's Gold Trash Priority is too low.

For example:
Code: [Select]
*** Fool's Gold + Steward + Vault + Mint(Plr 1)'s turn 10 ***
Fool's Gold + Steward + Vault + Mint(Plr 1)'s cards in Hand: [Fool's Gold, Fool's Gold, Fool's Gold, Steward, Fool's Gold]
Fool's Gold + Steward + Vault + Mint(Plr 1) plays Steward
... Fool's Gold + Steward + Vault + Mint(Plr 1) trashes a Fool's Gold
... Fool's Gold + Steward + Vault + Mint(Plr 1) trashes a Fool's Gold
Fool's Gold + Steward + Vault + Mint(Plr 1) plays Fool's Gold
... Fool's Gold + Steward + Vault + Mint(Plr 1) gets +$1
Fool's Gold + Steward + Vault + Mint(Plr 1) plays Fool's Gold
... Fool's Gold + Steward + Vault + Mint(Plr 1) gets +$4
Fool's Gold + Steward + Vault + Mint(Plr 1) has $5 to spend and 1 buy
Fool's Gold + Steward + Vault + Mint(Plr 1) buys a Fool's Gold
Fool's Gold + Steward + Vault + Mint(Plr 1) shuffles deck
Fool's Gold + Steward + Vault + Mint(Plr 1) draws 5 cards
Fool's Gold + Steward + Vault + Mint(Plr 1)'s cards in Hand: [Fool's Gold, Copper, Fool's Gold, Copper, Fool's Gold

The same goes with the Discard Priority:
Code: [Select]
** Fool's Gold + Steward + Vault + Mint(Plr 1)'s turn 12 ***
Fool's Gold + Steward + Vault + Mint(Plr 1)'s cards in Hand: [Steward, Fool's Gold, Fool's Gold, Vault, Copper]
Fool's Gold + Steward + Vault + Mint(Plr 1) plays Vault
... Fool's Gold + Steward + Vault + Mint(Plr 1) draws 2 cards
... Fool's Gold + Steward + Vault + Mint(Plr 1)'s cards in Hand: [Steward, Fool's Gold, Fool's Gold, Copper, Copper, Province]
... Fool's Gold + Steward + Vault + Mint(Plr 1) discards a Steward
... Fool's Gold + Steward + Vault + Mint(Plr 1) gets +$1
... Fool's Gold + Steward + Vault + Mint(Plr 1) discards a Province
... Fool's Gold + Steward + Vault + Mint(Plr 1) gets +$1
... Fool's Gold + Steward + Vault + Mint(Plr 1) discards a Copper
... Fool's Gold + Steward + Vault + Mint(Plr 1) gets +$1
... Fool's Gold + Steward + Vault + Mint(Plr 1) discards a Copper
... Fool's Gold + Steward + Vault + Mint(Plr 1) gets +$1
... Fool's Gold + Steward + Vault + Mint(Plr 1) discards a Fool's Gold
... Fool's Gold + Steward + Vault + Mint(Plr 1) gets +$1
... Fool's Gold + Steward + Vault + Mint(Plr 1) discards a Fool's Gold
... Fool's Gold + Steward + Vault + Mint(Plr 1) gets +$1
Fool's Gold + Steward + Vault + Mint(Plr 1) has $6 to spend and 1 buy
Fool's Gold + Steward + Vault + Mint(Plr 1) buys a Fool's Gold
Fool's Gold + Steward + Vault + Mint(Plr 1) shuffles deck
Fool's Gold + Steward + Vault + Mint(Plr 1) draws 5 cards
Fool's Gold + Steward + Vault + Mint(Plr 1)'s cards in Hand: [Copper, Copper, Fool's Gold, Fool's Gold, Fool's Gold]

Best would be: A Trash & Discard Priority list in the same way you implemented the Buy Priority list.
But at least it would be great to include: If a card is in the buy rules, don't trash it!

5654
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Grand it up!
« on: November 08, 2011, 03:31:46 am »
Grand chancellor. Put every player's deck into their discard pile, twice.

Haha. Great. Another dumb ideas:

Grand Counting House
Do this twice: Look through your discard pile, reveal any number of Copper cards from it, and put them into your hand.

Grand Treasure Map
Trash this and another two copies of Treasure Map from your hand. If you do trash three Treasure Maps, gain 10 Gold cards, putting them on top of your deck.

Grand Tournament
+1 Action
Each player may reveal two Provinces from his hand. If you do, discard them and gain all Prizes, putting it on top of your deck. If no-one else does, +1 Card +1 Coin.

So now some real ideas:

Grand Spice Merchant $5
You may trash a Treasure from your hand. If you do, choose one:
+3 Cards and +1 Action;
or +$3 and +1 Buy.
------------------
You can't buy this card if you have any copper in play.

Grand Merchant Ship $6
Now and at the start of your next turn: +3 Coins.
------------------
You can't buy this card if you have any copper in play.

And what about this? This would be powerful!

Grand City aka Metropolis $6
+1 Card
+2 Actions
If there are one or more empty Supply piles, +2 Cards. If there are two or more, +$2 and +1 Buy.
------------------
You can't buy this card if you have any copper in play.

5655
Simulation / Re: Dominion Deck Calculator
« on: November 07, 2011, 07:17:31 pm »
I tried to model this for myself (for a basic AI). So I'm glad to see that someone has the same idea.
But I dropped that because I realised that this is nearly impossible to model.
A few thoughts...

+2 Action Cards: I don't know what your intention is. If it is to get exact mathematic results, then ignore my post. But you can approach it very well.
I hope my English is understandable. If you calculate the sum of all +actions subtracted by 1 it should be greater than -1 (so terminal action cards have a value of -1, and villages of +1). One terminal action is fine. If you add another terminal action you should add a +2 action card as well to raise the sum to at least -1. So the approach would be to include the effects of all action cards if the sum is greater than -1 and otherwise to get a percentual penalty.

Avg Value per Hand: I think there's an error in your application that should be fixed. Test it with a deck of 4 Laboratories and one Gold. Of course you have an avg value of 3 per hand. But your application seems to assume an infinite deck so you draw more Golds. So a Lab has still the effect of 0.5 and a Gold of -1.6. Please take that into account.

Another approach: In my application I calculated the total value of the deck which is the total of all treasures and coins (minus the penalty) and then I calculated the number of turns to get through my deck. So 7 Coppers and 3 Estates is 2 turns (10/5). Adding a Smithy would be 11 cards, but one card draws 3 more cards, so the # turns would be (11-3)/5=1.6
I called it "turn rate". If you have a turn rate of <1, then you have the max, that means the total value of your deck. If you have a second Smithy, I calculated it against my turn rate. So if turn rate + action sum is < 0 (a approximated value for possibility of collisions), then I have a penalty. Here I have a penalty of 2-(12-6)/5=-0.8 so basically it means I can play the second Smithy about 20% of all time (I don't know if it's near the real mathematical value, but I think it's close). Maybe these thoughts help you...

Coming back to +2 Actions: So if you have an penalty, obviously the simulator could evaluate an addition of a village in your deck. So for me that was no big problem.

Further problems: But later I realised other issues. As you already mentioned +Buy is very difficult to evaluate. The maximum I can think of is: If the avg value of your deck exceeds the cost of the best card in the supply, then the simulator could recommend buying a card with +Buy. But how would recommending be valuated in numbers? I have no idea. Same goes with "Gainers" like Ironworks or Smugglers. But it gets more difficult with more complex cards. Can somebody tell me how to evaluate the mathematic possibility of a card that needs another specific card in hand to be played, like Moneylender of Baron? You want it more complicated? Obviously trashing Coppers and Estates raises the avg value of your deck. But how would you rate a card like Chapel to be buyed? Basically you need a list of cards that you want to trash, so maybe always add Copper, Curse and Estate. But maybe you also want to trash Moneylender because the possibility to draw a Copper is now too low... Next step would be choice cards: How would you rate choice cards like Steward for example? We need a comparable value of all 3 benefits (+2 cards, trash 2 cards, +$2), so the value of that card would be the highest value of the 3 choices I assume... Until here, I think it's still possible to evaluate with mathematic knowledge.

Going into the impossible: I have no idea how to evaluate Victory cards. Or let's say Goons and Bishop... Evaluating Attack cards would require knowledge of the opponents' decks. But still if we would have the data, how would we get a value of an attack card that is comparable to a value in coins? The same goes with reaction cards. Another problem you already mentioned is looking into the future. An AI would not recommend buying a Tournament if you have no provinces in your deck. Or buying a Treasure Map would give no benefit to your deck.

I like to help you in this process if I have enough time. But I think that it would be a big undertaking to get reasonably results.

5656
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Silver Lining - Beta Cards
« on: November 07, 2011, 11:13:11 am »
Again, I realize this is of limited interest to other readers

I like to read your posts and follow your process of beta testing. So, if I ever would make an expansion by myself I know how to do that.
But there's little to comment now as you make your conclusions on your own. So keep posting.

5657
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Fan Cards for Christmas Presents
« on: November 07, 2011, 08:46:09 am »
Magic Lamp
Cost: 4
---
+1 Card
+1 Action
Name a card. Reveal the top card of your deck. If it's the named card, put it into your hand. Repeat until the revealed card is not the card that you named.
---

In some setups this can be quite strong. I think it's a nice homage to Wishing Well

Covered Wagon
Cost: 4
---
+1 Card
---
While this card is in play, Grand Markets cost 7$, but may be bought with copper.
---
Setup: Add Grand Market as an extra Kingdom card pile.
---

I don't like that card because it's completely dependant from one card that is not a base card.
I would make it more universal to use it for other cards too. But that's only my personal taste.

Overhaul
Cost: 7
---
+1 Card
+1 Action
---
Discard X cards. Trash a card from your hand. Gain a card costing exactly X more than it.
---

That's my favourite of your four cards. It is really nice. But $7 is way to expensive. Compare it to Upgrade. You have to discard one card to get the same result.
Yes it can get crazy but with $7 no-one will buy it. Compare it to Expand. Yes you have the +1 Card and 1+ Action here but you have to discard 3 cards to get the same result, that's a lot. So with $5 or $4 it will be much better. Maybe you have to test it.

Colonist
Cost: 4
---
+1 Card
+1 Action
---
You may set aside this and a Province from your hand. Colonists set aside in this way are worth 4VP at the end of the game.
---

So this is an Action-Victory Card. It's like Island mixed-up with Tournament. It's cantrip and if you have the luck to get Province and Colonist in your hand then it is worth 4VP. It might be balanced in cost. I don't like it that much because the luck factor is high like it is with Tournament, so it's a issue of personal taste. If your friend likes Island and Tournament, give it a try.

5658
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Buying cards for your opponents
« on: November 04, 2011, 11:11:56 am »
Why would you ever buy Dud for yourself?   ???

If you're going for Silk Road maybe.

5659
Variants and Fan Cards / Choice card mechanics
« on: November 04, 2011, 06:31:43 am »
I don't know if I should make a new thread for that.
If an admin feels that it better fit in my "Reaction Card" thread, than you can merge them. For now I keep them separate.
And this doesn't get so long as the reaction card post.

-----

I like cards that gives you the choice. They're flexible and nearly fit in each deck.
The basic one I mean is Pawn. I like to buy it if I have $2 left. In the worst case it's a cantrip.
But Steward and Nobles, Trusty Steed, Governor also fit in this category.
More complex examples would be Spice Merchant, Minion or Native Village.

I thought of a card that was like
"Employee $5 Action // Choose one: +3$; +2$ +1 Action; +1$ +2 Actions; +3 Actions"
or more compact:
"Employee $5 Action // Choose three times +1$ or +1 Action" (I don't know if it's worded right)
Each variant should be priced right.
For $5 you get either a terminal gold, an Minion-like card, a Bazaar without +1 card, or a massive Action-boost
Of course the choices are not equivalent in each situation, but sometimes you need that +3 Action-boost more than a terminal gold.
So if you have 2 Employees in hand, you have +$5. If you have 2 Employees and other terminal actions you can choose differently, but you'll have mostly no actions left and the maximum of +coins.
Would that be a good card?

Later I thought: Hm, I think we could expand that to other combinations.
"Another Employee $5 Action // Choose three times +1 Card or +1 Action"
So you have either a Smithy or a Laboratory or a Village or another time the massive Action-boost.
So each variant is already an existing card, but that card would be flexible and no variant is worth more than $5. But would that card be interesting? Is it worth more than $5 because of its flexibility?

I mean you can put that to extreme. Throw both cards together and add +buy and +VP token so you have.
"Ultimate Employee $5 Action // Choose three times +1 Card or +1 Action or +1$ or +1 Buy or +1 VP"
I'm not sure with the +1 VP (that seems overpowered) part but all different combinations can be useful on different boards and none of them would be worth more than $5.
But is the card worth more than $5 because of its flexibility?
Choosing is fun, but would such a extreme flexibility still be fun or would it get boring?
I'm not sure. I'd like to hear your thoughts. Do you like choice cards?

5660
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Reaction cards mechanics
« on: November 03, 2011, 10:42:22 am »
Great thoughts here.  I like your "when you would trash" idea.  You're right that it would make trash-for-benefit cards powerful, but I suspect merely as a legitimate power combo rather than something brokenly powerful, since you'd have to draw the trasher and the reaction together. I agree that that's probably the most promising of these different reaction cues.
Thanks a lot. The good thing in Dominion is that everyone has the great chance to build up the same combo. In these terms I agree with you. Doctor would be super-powerful on boards with trash-for-benefit cards, but everyone can buy them.

I suspect the playing and drawing cues aren't going to be good to try to use.  The former, for the reasons you say.  The latter, because the accountability isn't necessarily clear all the time, due to the way cards get shuffled around during play.  For example, when I play a Warehouse, I just pull three cards into my hand right away and only then look at them.  If I then reveal a reaction card, is it clear that I just drew it, rather than it having been already in my hand?
Didn't thought of that problem. Yeah, then you have to draw one after another and look at it to have the chance to reveal it. And that would also slow the speed down. But that issue wouldn't be that terrible as on-play I think.

The other cues you list all have official cards that use them, so obviously they can work at least sometimes.  I think it's important to test reactions more than anything, though, just because the risk of landing into a broken game state is probably more likely and easier to miss.  Events that interrupt other events are difficult to track if the game allows them to stack too much.  The Secret History of the Hinterlands cards hint at that sort of hazard in the write-ups for Haggler and Noble Brigand and such, which I found very interesting.
Because of that I mentioned that these are just ideas. I haven't tested them and I think won't do that. So before copying these ideas for your personal use, test these cards.

You should always be careful not too make the Reaction cards too dependent on their reaction. Moat still draws 2 cards for example, so it isn't completely useless in the absence of Attack cards.
I always tried that in my examples. Because of that I see a problem with on-trash on victory or treasure cards because they will be useless without trashing actions.

You could also make the Reaction trigger on your opponent's draws.
Yes I thought of that but that would be slowing the speed more down as rinkworks already mentioned. If you react to your own draw, it's ok. But on the opponents' draw, I don't know. Someone has to test this. But I like your example idea.

Actually there is no such thing like a reaction to attacking. There are just reactions that answer to attack cards being played, which is the main reason why you reveal your Moat before the opponent decides what to do with his Minion/Pirate Ship played.
What do you mean? There are 3 existing cards that say "When another player plays an Attack card". And my example also says that. If the attack affects you or not, because Pirate Ship takes the money, doesn't matter. You can discard Hurdle and draw 3 cards.

5661
Variants and Fan Cards / Reaction cards mechanics
« on: November 03, 2011, 08:42:27 am »
Hi,

a lot of people are releasing their fan cards here and although I'm not such a fan reading those posts, I found there a few really good ideas for cards.
Especially those big posts with a whole expansion are difficult to grasp at first sight for me.
So for myself I think I won't make my own expansion, but a few ideas are in my mind which I haven't read anywhere yet.
I hope to hear some feedback if those ideas are well-thought and like to inspire those fan-card-making guys with new ideas.
So, for clarification: All of my ideas are untested and only examples!

With the release of Hinterlands and now the publication of the secret history from Donald X. the most interesting card type in the past month for me is the reaction card.
With the release of the basic set I never ever thought of cards that could react to anything different than attacks.
I like Watchtower very much for "trashing on-gain" or "putting-on-deck on-gain". But now there is Tunnel that triggers to discarding.
So what are the basic actions? 1) Playing, 2) Drawing, 3) Discarding, 4) Buying, 5) Gaining, 6) Trashing, 7) Attacking ... anything else?
Basically to all of these actions there could be reaction cards.

1) I thought of a reaction card that you could reveal when playing a card.
But that would slow the speed of the game down I think. So maybe it works if it is limited to a specfic card type. But nothing useful came to my mind. Maybe someone has an idea?

2) Next would be drawing.
A card could have the reaction text "When you draw this other than during a Clean-up phase, you may reveal it. If you do, + 1 card"
or "Meadow $4 Victory-Reaction // 2VP -- When you draw this other than during a Clean-up phase, you may reveal it. If you do, discard it, + 2 cards"
A bit expensive victory card that can be useful in cycling cards like Embassy or Warehouse
or "Sentinel $2 Action-Reaction // +1 card, $1 -- When you draw this other than during a Clean-up phase, you may reveal it. If you do, + 1 action"
Mostly useless unless you have cycling cards like Embassy or Warehouse so this is basically a cheap peddler. And it can trigger itself.
or "Purse $4 Treasure-Reaction // $2 -- When you draw this other than during a Clean-up phase, you may reveal it. If you do, + 1 buy"
So this can be a Woodcutter without spending an action.
or "Upgraded Workshop $4 Action-Reaction // Gain a card costing up to 4$ -- When you draw this other than during a Clean-up phase, you may reveal it. If you do, gain a card costing up to 4$"
This is a Workshop with the possibility to gain two cards up to $4 in one turn.
This are just basic examples that could be fun to play with. Of course you can expand this and make it more complicated and intriguing.
I just wanted to combine known formats with the reaction effect.
We just need the new rule that if the effects (+1 action, +1buy) are triggered by the opponents (e.g. Council Room) the gained bonus is kept in mind until your turn starts.
Or we define that these reactions can't be triggered by opponents. What do you think?

3) Next is discarding. We all know Tunnel, but what effects could also be possible? Just a few examples:
"Planchet $2 Treasure-Reaction // $1 -- When you discard this other than during a Clean-up phase, you may reveal it. If you do, +$2."
This is an expensive copper, but can be a cheap silver if you have cycling cards or if you're attacked from cards like Militia. Or in combination with Vault it's in fact a gold.
"Small Mine $3 Action-Reaction // Trash up to 2 cards from your hand -- When you discard this other than during a Clean-up phase, you may reveal it. If you do, trash a Treasure card from your hand. Gain a Treasure card costing up to 3 Coins more; put it into your hand."
This is a mine that can be triggered on discarding. I didn't know what could be the main effect so I decided to add a trash effect without benefit. So this can be a quite a good opener in some situations.

4) and 5) I combine gaining and buying because on-gain is the better effect of on-buy. Watchtower and Trader are the prototypes.
And we have the possibility to add trigger on your gain or on the gain of the opponents as shown on Fool's Gold.
So what about these?
"Bargainer $4 Reaction // When you or another player gains a card, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, discard this and gain a card costing less than it."
This may be a dead card, but can be very powerful. Your opponent gets a colony, you reveal Bargainer and get the last Province and win the game.
"Arch $4 Action-Reaction // +2 cards, +2 Buys -- When you buy a card, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, instead, gain a card costing $1 more."
Play Arch, buy 3 cards and reveal another Arch and get 3 cards costing $1 more each. So it's bridge-like. I don't know if it's priced right.
And what about this?
"Fraudster $5 Action-Reaction // + 1 Buy -- When you gain a card, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, discard this and return the gained card to the supply. Each other player gains a copy of it.
Is it too strong? Buy a curse with an extra buy, reveal Fraudster. Each player gets a curse. But 2 of the other 3 players have a Fraudster in hand too: Curse explosion (just like the Haggler explosion, Donald X wrote about)
Or another player plays Witch. You reveal Fraudster and the player who played Witch gets a Curse (and of course each other player 2 Curses in total).
Maybe I have to change it in "When you buy a card" but I don't know if it's still interesting.

6) On-Trash is interesting. Let's see.
"Doctor $4 Action-Reaction // Trash up to two cards. Get +$1 for each trashed card. -- When you would trash a card, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, discard this and put the trashed card aside. Put that to your discard pile in your clean-up phase"
This is my favourit card, I'd like to see. The trash effect itself is not that strong. But it is a good opener. But the on-trash-effect is interesting. It's like your possessing yourself. You get the profit from trashing but can keep the card if you want.
So you get for a trashed province from Bishop +4VP, +$8 from Salvager or +8 cards from Apprentice, but can keep the Province itself. Is it too strong? What price would be right?
I came up with Treasure-Reaction and Victory-Reaction too, but there is the problem if there's no card for trashing it is a dead card on the board.
For example "Borrowed Land $4 Victory-Reaction // 2VP -- When you trash this, +2VP tokens"
But it would be better a on-gain, on-draw or on-discard like
"Borrowed Land $4 Victory-Reaction // 2VP -- When you discard this other than during a Clean-up phase, you may reveal it. If you do, trash this, +2VP tokens"

7) On-Attack is already done often. But there might be more possibilities.
"Hurdle $2 Action-Reaction // +2 Cards, When another player plays an Attack card, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, discard this, +3 cards."
So if an opponent plays a Militia-like card, reveal Hurdle, discard it, draw 3 cards and discard 2 cards from the attack, so you have still 5 cards. Or you gain a curse, but now you have 7 cards in hand.

Wow, what a long post. Thanks if you're still reading this. I'd like to hear some thoughts. Would that be good mechanisms? Would you like that in a future expansion?

5662
Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Another pointless puzzle to keep people busy
« on: November 02, 2011, 07:48:39 pm »

Turn 5: Draw Estate, Copperx2, Bridge, KC - Buy KC, Bridgex2



After turn 4 there are 2 Estates left to draw, so your hand doesn't seem possible. Or am I doing anything wrong?


8 Turns is no problem:

Turn 1: Buy Bridge
Turn 2: Buy Fishing Village
Turn 3: Fishing Village, 3 Copper, Estate => Buy Bridge
Turn 4: Bridge, 4 Copper => Buy King's Court
Turn 5: 2 Estates, King's Court, Bridge, Fishing Village => Buy 4 Bridges
Turn 6: Bridge, 4 Copper => Buy King's Court
Turn 7: 3 Copper, 2 Estates
Turn 8: 2 King's Courts, 3 Bridges => Buy 8 Provinces


7 Turns is challenging:

Turn 1: Buy Bridge
Turn 2: Buy Shanty Town
Turn 3: Shanty Town, 4 Copper => Draw Bridge, 1 Copper => Buy King's Court
Turn 4: 2 Copper, 3 Estates
Turn 5: Shanty Town, 3 Copper, Estate => Draw Bridge, King's Court => Buy King's Court, 2 Bridges, Silver
Turn 6: 2 Estates, 3 Copper => Buy Silver
But 1 Copper is left so I can't do 2 King's Courts, 3 Bridges
Best I can do:
Turn 7: 2x King's Court, Shanty Town, 2 Copper => Draw 2 Copper, 2 Silver, 2 Bridges => Buy 7 Provinces


Edit: Additional Silver for 7 Provinces

Edit2: jonts26 got it first, but here is an alternative


Turn 1: Buy Bridge
Turn 2: Buy Silver
Turn 3: Silver, Bridge, 3 Copper => Buy King's Court
Turn 4: 3 Copper, 2 Estates => Buy Chancellor
Turn 5: Copper, Estate, King's Court, Bridge, Silver => Buy King's Court, 2 Bridges
Turn 6: Chancellor, ... => reshuffle
Turn 7: 2 King's Courts, 3 Bridges => Buy 8 Provinces

5663
GokoDom / Re: IsoDom 2 Match-ups Round 1
« on: November 01, 2011, 04:42:43 pm »
Thx for playing and for organizing. Next time I will prepare better.

But I'm still annoyed that my turn 17 in the second game only got me $15 instead of $16 for buying 2 provinces and winning the game.
So painted_cow's Noble Brigand for trashing 3 silvers did his job.

5664
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Cards That Combo With Tunnel Reaction
« on: October 29, 2011, 09:03:13 am »
Hi. I think Vault/Tunnel is a great combo.
With a 3/4 start open Tunnel and a Card that get you to 5 quickly.
With a 5/2 start open Vault.
Then buy Tunnel with 3/4 and Vault with 5/6/7
Every time discard Tunnel to get a Gold.
Every time you have a Vault and Gold in hand you can buy a Province.

Here I have 8 Provinces and 4 Tunnels in 18 turns in a single player game which - I think - is pretty impressive.
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201110/29/game-20111029-055241-19fd30f1.html

What do you think?
Anybody wants to simulate that?

5665
Council Room Feedback / Re: No game data for the last few days?
« on: October 26, 2011, 11:44:56 am »
Oh, it seems fixed now.
Thanks for this.
I appreciate that.

5666
GokoDom / Re: IsoDom 2 Invitational Sign-Up
« on: October 23, 2011, 11:38:01 am »
So, I would like to join. So count me in. Thanks MMM for organizing.
How get the divisions organized? Do they depend on time zones we're living in? Or is it purely randomized?

5667
Game Reports / Re: Longest "17 turn" game ever
« on: October 22, 2011, 08:58:30 am »
Wow, that's a nice log. Possession is a very nasty card.

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Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Create a card inspired by another game
« on: October 21, 2011, 04:21:08 pm »
Stratego
Action - Attack - $4

+2 Card
Reveal a Card from your hand.
Each other player must reveal the card on top of their deck.
Discard the card(s) with the highest cost.
Trash all other remaining revealed cards.


The formulation is bad I know, but I think you get it.
You can trash your curses and coppers or trash Provinces with your Colony.
With that card in play, that would be a very frustrating game.

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Dominion General Discussion / Re: [spoiler] Full Hinterlands card list
« on: October 19, 2011, 03:53:11 am »
Mandarin is nowhere near a cheap gold, imo. Mandarin seems like it's often worse than silver, since you have to put a card back on your deck. If it's a victory card, you bureaucrat'd yourself and are going to have a worse next turn. If it's a treasure, you're losing money, so you're not really getting $3. And if it's an action, you would have been able to play the action instead had you just had silver instead of mandarin, and the result would probably have been better. I think it's only better than silver if you want to save specific cards for later (like province in a tournament game, or a fool's gold) or if you're doing the black market thing.

I think the on-buy effect is the more important one, as it lets you save your Golds/Silvers in case you just barely make Province but not quite (e.g. if you have $7 this turn in Golds and Silver, topdecking them might let you hit $8 the next). The action effect simply prevents Mandarin collision from causing dead cards.

I agree the on buy effect is the most interesting and probably most useful part of mandarin, because in your deck it is for the most part pretty useless.

Ok, still not played with it. I have to see it in action but your arguments seem plausible.

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Dominion General Discussion / Re: [spoiler] Full Hinterlands card list
« on: October 18, 2011, 08:23:53 am »
My thoughts:

Border Village: We already know it. It's great if there are 5$-cards that you would buy either way (especially attack cards or other terminals) so you get a "normal" village for free. Beware: Don't forget to buy gold too.

Cache: Do I want to buy this with a 5/2 start. I think most of the time there will be better $5-cards in the supply. Great if you can trash the coppers immediately with watchtower or turn them into silver with Trader. Great in a Gardens deck too: 3 cards for $5 is great.

Cartographer: I think it's a great card which is kinda useful on all boards. If you have many curses or victory cards you can discard them. Also great in the beginning where the recently buyed cards get into your hand earlier. It also stacks well because another Cartographer draws one of the "prepared" cards. Maybe you only don't want to buy it if you have already a good running engine

Crossroads: One of my favourite cards. +3 Actions is already great even without the drawing effect. So buy one with $2 left is rarely bad. But on boards with at least one additional victory card a nearly must-buy and very over-powered. You can start going green after the first turns. Imagine the combo-potential with Harem, Nobles and Gardens of course. Yesterday had my first game with Crossroads and luckily there was Gardens and Workshop on the table. Great. Hoard is also great for going green earlier.

Develop: It's very board-dependant. But I think it can be very useful in mid-/end-game to develop one card into a victory card and the other in another useful card, mostly a treasure card. Developing a $7-card like Bank into Province and a Gold in end-game or developing a Moneylender into a Duchy and a Silver in mid-game. But I still have to test it.

Duchess: Doesn't seem very useful. A silver for $2 is great of course. You can buy one with a 5/2 start. But in the later game it's only useful if you have a good running engine with enough actions and at least +Buy. The obvious good case is when Duke is on board.

Embassy: Drawing 2 cards for $5 doesn't seem very good. But imagine you play it immediately at the start of your turn. So you can choose 6 cards out of 9 cards which is great. If there wasn't the silver gain for the other players it were a good buy for a 5/2 start. But gaining a silver isn't that good in mid-game in colony games so maybe that would be a good buy in such games.

Fool's Gold: As already pointed out, mostly it's no good card. You have to buy many of them, so it needs it's own strategy. It's great if there are good trashers in the supply, especially Chapel, but Steward too. And of course it's great if there a heavy cyclers on the board. So Embassy for example seem to be great with Fool's Gold. Or apprentice a card and play another card for +Buy to get 5 Fools' Gold => 2 Provinces (5 Golds won't work!).

Haggler: I will look forward to test this out. Buy a Platinum, gain a Border Village, gain another Haggler ... or something like that. That could easily end the game on emptying 3 piles. Great is also that Haggler itself gives $2. Haggler would be a good buy in a 5/2 start.

Highway: Not very new effect. It's effect can not be throned, but it's a cantrip, so you can multiples of them. I'm missing the +Buy of Bridge. It reminds me more of Quarry instead of Bridge. So $5 seems a little bit expensive. Great with engines with enough buys I think. Wharf+Highway or Salvager+Highway could be great.

Ill-Gotten Gains: I don't like it. It's the only curse-giver in the set and only a one shot. And $5 is definitely overpriced. So you need trash-for-benefit cards and then you have a feast-like card with a one-shot cursing attack. Or you buy a new one for every trashed one.

Inn: Yes, more shuffling :D ! First that came to my mind was: Scrying Pool. I think those two can combo very well. So with this card you want a action-heavy deck, because you get the +Actions. Peddler could also be great with enough extra buys. If you have too many terminal action cards, you can also discard 2 terminal action cards with Inn, then buy a Inn and shuffle them back.

Jack of all Trades: A little bit too complicated for my taste. It combines Bureacrat, Spy, drawing and trashing. I think one buy at the start is good, but I don't think it's a very good card.

Mandarin: A cheap gold. As already pointed out, combos well with Black Market.

Margrave: Maybe my favourite attack in this set. It seems very overpowered. It nearly a Council Room for the drawing ability and then nearly a Militia. So: Council Room and Mititia already was a great combo. Now we have it in one card! I think playing 2 Margraves is mostly better than Council Room+Militia. I'm looking forward to see it in action.

Noble Brigand: A mostly better Thief. It gives +1$, it attacks when you buy it, steals only Silver and Gold and gives Copper. So it's much better. Only in colony games it can't steal Platinum and of course other treasures but you can buy them yourself if you have already the treasures from your opponents :D

Nomad Camp: Instant Woodcutter, nothing special. I don't like that it adds luck to the start distribution.

Oasis: I don't get it yet. It's an expensive copper. It only removes a little bit of drawing luck. But I think for $3 I would rather buy a silver. Or can anybody tell me in which cases you would buy this?

Oracle: A better spy-variant. Instead of one card, it works with 2 cards and you look and discard before you draw: great. I'm only missing the +1 Action, but I think that would be overpowered for that price. I think that can bring up hard decisions for discarding. Should I let you discard your estate and gold or not?!

Scheme: Great, especially for that cost. It's a cantrip and it let you prepare your next turn. Play Scheme, play Witch, put Witch back on your deck. If you had no action cards in play, put itself back. I think this is nearly never bad.

Spice Merchant: Also a great card. Trash for Laboratory effect is great. It stacks not as well as Laboratory because you have to trash. And if you don't need the Laboratory effect you can also choose $2 and +Buy. So it's very flexible, I like it.

Stables: Looks also great. +3 Cards and +1 Action is very powerful. I think with that card you don't want to trash you coppers, so you can you use it multiple times. So in a Province game you buy 3 Stables and 3 Gold and you're ready to go green. Can anybody simulate that?

Trader: As already pointed out, a very interesting card that can be great in Gardens or Duke games. It can empty the silver pile very quickly. It's also great againt Curse-givers, especially Mountebank.

Farmland: Very interesting. But I don't know in what situations it would work. Maybe in end-game if you have 9$ and only one buy in a Province game. So you buy a Farmland with only $6 and trash the remaining Gold to a Province. Or in mid-game you buy with $6 a Farmland and trash your Moneylander and get a Gold. Any other ideas?

Silk Road: Another card for Gardens. Imagine Crossroads, Gardens and Silk Road on the board! But I think for $4 you need at least 12 victory cards to make it worth. I correct: Imagine a board with Crossroads, Nobles, Great Hall and Silk Road!

Tunnel: Wow! What an idea! I think early buys can be worth it. Of course it's board dependant. I didn't count the amount of cards that would enable the ability of Tunnel, but I think in nearly every game there is at least one card that would fit. One question: It doesn't say "discard from hand", so cards like Adventurer and Library would trigger the effect right? So Adventurer would combo great! Buy one card that trashes your copper, for example Moneylender. Buy a Province if possible, else buy an Adventurer if possible, else buy a Tunnel. Can anybody simulate that?

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Good question. I think it's a matter of order.

If he buys a Mint first, he trashes his treasure cards and has no cards to put on his deck as he buys a Mandarin.
If he buys a Mandarin first, he puts his treasure cards on top of his deck and can trash no cards as he buys a Mint.

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Rules Questions / Re: Possession + Ending condition
« on: October 14, 2011, 07:54:40 am »
Thanks for clarification. I would've answered the same, but I wanted to hear that from the experts.  ;D

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Rules Questions / Possession + Ending condition
« on: October 14, 2011, 05:01:31 am »
I don't know if this question got already answered somewhere, but I just played a game where I could buy the last province but would've lost and had a possession in hand. I didn't know if I could buy the province and still get the possession turn. So I buyed two Duchies and I've had the luck that I could forge a Province with the hand of my opponent. So: Was it possible to buy the province anyway and get the possession turn or would I've lost?

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At first sight, I thought Nomad Camp is boring, it's an instant Woodcutter, but like Donald X. pointed out, the opening can change. I don't like that there can be a luck-based difference between 4-3 and 3-4 openings now. But it adds an interesting effect to the first two turns. If the effect is interesting in the mid- or end-game has to be tested, I suppose.

Fool's Gold is now the first Treasure-Reaction card. It supports the Chapel strategy, because now you can have Chapel & 3x Fool's Gold instead of Chapel & 3x Silver.
And you're ready for Provinces. Later it can be changed into real gold. It also interacts well with Tactician or good engines. But if you have good running engines you likely don't need Fool's Gold anymore.

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Border Village:
If there's a Talisman in play: I buy a Border Village, gain a Smithy and gain a second one. Great! Question: 2 Bridges, Play a Talisman, buy a BV, get 2, so I get 4 Smithies, right?

Why would you gain 2 Smithies in the first case? Talisman says "when you buy a card". You're not buying Smithy, so no other copy is gained. Buying implies gaining but gaining doesn't imply buying.

So in both cases I think you'd gain 1 Smithy per BV. You do get 2 BV and 2 Smithies with Talisman and 2 Bridges.

I think you're absolutely right. I hadn't the card text of Talisman right in mind.

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