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Messages - Karrow

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51
Dominion Isotropic / Re: Isotropic request. Level by # of players
« on: September 30, 2011, 11:03:19 am »

I don't know how much longer isotropic will be around (that will be a sad day), but I'm guessing CouncilRoom.com will be around even once isotropic is gone, yes? Let's crunch some numbers!

What if, super secretly in the background Rio Grand is working with Isotropic so that when the official version is announced we find out that they have licensed Isotropic to produce and run it.  Then Isotropic releases an graphic upgrade to pretty everything else and use the printed card images.

Hey a guy can dream right?


But anyhow, yea.  Maybe this is something councilroom could do?

52
Dominion Isotropic / Isotropic request. Level by # of players
« on: September 29, 2011, 05:44:22 pm »
I'd love to see levels broken out by #of players.  Basically 3 separate ladders and leader boards to represent 2player, 3player, and 4player games.

This is something I thought it should have since the first time I played there, and was just reminded of it in a different thread talking about 4p tournaments.  4p dominion takes a very different strategy than 2-player dominion, and it'd be nice to have more accurate representations of levels. 

For example today I'm level 25, but if you look at my record I have exactly one 2p game played (and i don't even remember why I have that) 435 3p games and 32 4p games.  I'm probably not a lvl 25 in 2p.  I've only played a few 2p games ftf.  Almost all games I've ever played are 3-4.  And if some other lvl 25 who has played thousands of 2p games jumps into his first ever 3p game with me, we are probably not equally leveled.  And then there's also the higher variance factor with more players which may lower rankings of those who play 3-4p.

With tournaments actually popping up now of different formats for # of players it may be helpful for those hardcore players to see where they stand relatively in each format.

I don't know how your level would be displayed though as cluttering up everyone with multiple levels would make things ugly.  Just keeping the "one ladder" level, and having a separate 2p-3p-4p specific leaderboards hidden somewhere for us who care to look at might be best.

Anyone else agree, or am I just crazy?

Regardless of my request, thanks for Isotropic.

53
Tournaments and Events / Re: Any GenCon or WBC news?
« on: September 29, 2011, 03:07:31 pm »

Just watched http://www.nextlevelcardgames.com/2011/09/wbc-coverage-dominion-semifinals.html


this was painful to watch. some of the great strategy insights i have gained in this video (these are all paraphrases of stuff she said in the video) if i open tactician/embargo it might have been a better play to embargo the provinces (none having been bought) instead of the tacticians. island is an elite opener and should almost always be bought(and then more islands massed). swindler is a good thing to buy so you can swindle your opponets silvers into ambassodors. merchant ship was a goodbuy because its better than eexplorer. and last but not least you shouldn't swindle coppers into curses because of the wealth of ambassodors in your opponets deck (which you swindled there in the first place)

Unable to watch the the video at work, but I'd note for anyone to be careful criticizing 4-player strategy.

4p is VERY different.  3 piles can end the game on turn 8 without any extra buys, gains, or curses.  I've won 4p games with a 4-3-3-3 score buying one estate.  I've even won games with the starting 3vp simply because others trashed their opening estates and I did not.  Add any +buy, gain cards, or curse givers and things can get crazy.

For example, we all know that Pirate Ship and Thief suck.  CouncilRoom tells us so.  But I've seen countless times where a great 2-player gamer walks into a 4-player game and laughs and criticizes people as they buy these cards over a smithy because we all know smithy is better.  But after 2 rounds of the other 3 players all playing pirate ship or thief on their turns there comes a very long silence from they guy who was just telling everyone how stupid they were as he realizes that it's likely he will never draw a treasure again.

It's even funnier when they complain they only lost because other people played stupid.  They play stupid, but they keep winning?  4p strategy is different, not stupid.

For swindling silvers to ambassadors and not copper to curse?  It's not necessarily stupid in 4-player.  Lets say she swindles coppers to curses, then after the next shuffle 3 players ambassador the curse back.  How is she sitting now?  Swindle silver to ambassador?  That's turning their $2 producing non-terminal into a 0$ terminal.  A fast 3-pile 4-player game can get crazy fast with swindlers and ambassadors.  What are they going to do with ambassadors in a lightning fast 4p game?  Ambassador an estate?  That's a quick suicide.  Ambassador a copper?  In a fast 4p that can end on 3 piles that cost 3$ or less coppers don't really hurt that much.  So I'd say she may understand 4p swindler & ambassador better than many here.

Massing Islands stupid?  Again, in a 4p games that can end fast on 3 piles, things are different.  In games that can be won with estates, islands are very powerful.

For example of 4-player strangeness, here's a game where two opponents open 5-2 and they go with Ghost Ship & Saboteur.  We all know how long a Ghost Ship game can take, and two opponents have a province on me.  But I easily win on turn 16 with 0 Province, 1 Duchy, & 15 estates.
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20110919-205648-673377b2.html
Looking back at the game, I could have skipped the duchy.  Had I changed a few buys I could have won on turn 14.  But if you look at councilroom it shows that an average ghost ship province game takes 24 turns.  Of all cards in dominion, ghost ship is #5 in creating games with the most number of turns.  If you run the stats at 24+/-2, you'd think a 14 or 16 turn ghost ship game is extremely rare.  But the stats are heavily weighted to 2-player games.  I'd wager it's not as rare in a 4-player.

54
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: How much does information cost?
« on: September 27, 2011, 06:55:20 pm »
Trojan Horse
Action/Duration
Cost: $5
+$2
+ 1 Buy
 (every turn this card is in play)
If another player plays a Trojan Horse, discard this card.

I'm not saying this card is perfect as is, but this is the only way to have a good duration card that lasts more than one turn.

I don't agree with that last statement at all.  I think there are plenty of ways you can do that, but never mind:  the mechanic you've described with this card is really cool.  The card is good enough that you'd like to take it away from your opponents as soon as possible, but not quite good enough that you want to clog your deck up with lots of duplicates of it, just to increase the chance you can play it sooner.  That, in turn, may increase the value of cyclers and such.

So what are we saying here
--> (every turn this card is in play)

The card is in play on your opponents turn.

I'd love to see permanent duration cards that change the game play.  For old Magic players think Howling Mines.  The OP's card idea could be like Revelation from Magic.

And there is no reason that they can not stack when they effect everyone.  Short of VP tokens Dominion is finite in length.  A "draw 1 additional card when you draw cards in your cleanup step" duration card would simply speed things up more and more as it was played.  Gain a curse would just speed the curse pile emptying.  "Draw one less card (but not less than X)" would slow the game down no more than a ghost ship game.

I like the global permanent duration idea for effects that effect all players equally because on their own they are not overpowered since they effect everyone the same.  Without a strategy though they can hurt the person who bought them because that person had to spend the $ and use the action.  But they can be game-changers.  Seeing one in the kingdom, you have to consider your strategy and what-if this card is played.  Build a strategy that uses the card to your advantage?  Play a riskier strategy and hope no one else plays the card?  Modify your strategy to deal with the card if it is played, but then loose to someone who doesn't because no one plays the card?

But the reasons I like the idea are the same reasons others will not.  It can create more variance & add more to the metagame.

55
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Storage Solution for Dominion
« on: September 27, 2011, 06:02:12 pm »
I'm using two smaller boxes, and I prefer it over one box.  Since you always (or almost always) have at least two people playing, with the two boxes we can put away and pull out a new kingdom in half the time.  It was annoying before when everyone was waiting and staring at the one person with the one box.  Also the smaller boxes are much easier to move or hand off.

I didn't anticipate the reason when I did it, I just used some nice smaller boxes I had laying around from another game.

56
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Silver Lining - Beta Cards
« on: September 27, 2011, 05:38:36 pm »
Sorry to nitpick but some things were just throwing me off.  Not sure if it's on purpose, but you're not using the standard effect order on Excursion or Wooden Bridge.  The standard cards also always have the basic abilities stacked one per row without the semicolon, but I could understand doing it for space consideration.  The semicolon you have on the ones that are one per row also throw my eye off.  If you touched up the format, it may look a bit cleaner.

Other than that, it looks interesting so far.  I like the theme. 

And if all I can complain about is punctuation, you're doing good.


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