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5801

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Which card takes the longest to play?

« on: August 12, 2011, 10:33:29 am »

I'm surprised Possession did not get mentioned. That one card means that you are playing a whole new hand. Furthermore, it's from a deck that you personally did not build, so you have several decisions to make (did my opponent supply enough Villages to make this engine work?).

Although, I suppose that technically, playing the card takes no time at all. It's the effect after your hand is done that takes up a lot of time.

Masquerade can be time-consuming. Not only do you have to choose your card (which is probably easy), you have to wait for the other players to choose their cards—especially if you screw over a lean deck—and then choose the card to trash (also likely easy).

5802

Dominion Isotropic / Re: Counting House/Philosopher's Stone

« on: August 11, 2011, 02:34:25 pm »

I'm guessing that looking through the discard pile is not the desired outcome. It happens, because how else are you supposed to fish out those Coppers?

So, the online version may reflect the intent of these cards better than real life. It's just that in real life, you can't really successfully play the Counting House without looking at what's in your discard pile.

Interestingly enough, Philosopher's Stone can be played without looking through your discard pile. You would just count it face-down. I can't remember if the rules suggest that or not. Of course, then that means you can count the number of Stashes, which may or may not be important.

But I'm just speaking out of my arse here.

5803

Dominion Isotropic / Re: Thanks everyone

« on: July 27, 2011, 09:49:59 am »

If you're that concerned about your level dropping, play under a different screenname with abandon.  No one will know it's you.

We will now. From now on I will assume that anybody I play who is not called "Eagle" is actually Eagle in disguise.

It might be me in disguise    I've been known to do that at times.

No!  It's me!  ME ME ME!  Everyone is me!

No!  I am Spartacus!

I'm Brian, and so is my wife!

5804

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Interesting Black Market Decks

« on: July 25, 2011, 02:56:47 pm »

I don't really like the idea of having the entire deck open. The first person to get Black Market out would be able to buy the best card that nobody else could get (Mountebank, Ambassador, what have you).

One idea might be to allow the Black Market stall to "stay open." After someone buys his card, the remaining cards stay out. The next person to buy from the Black Market can choose one of the remainders or pitch them and draw 3 new cards. This, unfortunately, would actually make it unfavorable for the first person to get there. Perhaps that can be offset by starting the game with two Black Market cards flipped over. That really is more of a Black Market variant and not a Black Market deck.

One possibility could be to have the Black Market deck contain all of the trashing cards. Make people work at trimming their decks down. It'd be interesting to see if that pays off or if someone does better focusing on the main board rather than a delayed trashing.

You could have cards that cost $6+. Then, it truly would feel like a Black Market. The card actually would be less useful early in the game unless you think you can whip out $6 in turn 3 or 4. Peddler, however, couldn't be part of it, unless you made a house rule that the Peddler's cost is reduced during the Action Phase (or the Black Market's faux Buy phase).

By contrast, you could put all the $2s and $3 if you want to mimic the shifty street vendors who sell things out of the backs of vans. That could be kind of fun, as you would buy a cheap card with Black Market and then get your regular purchase as well. If you want to really be perverse, have all cards on the board cost at least $4 (except Black Market). Then, you can only get the smaller stuff if you have Black Market. Though, if you have some tasty Wharves or Laboratories out there, you might just skip Black Market altogether.

5805

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: second player compensation

« on: July 21, 2011, 11:36:32 am »

In our group, we save time by having each player deal out his starting hand, determine if he got a 3/4 or 2/5, buy his first two cards, and shuffle everything together.

At the time, we didn't really think about the ramifications of knowing if an opponent chose an attack card or a Potion.

But considering the first-player advantage, I'm inclined to keep that, as it does give later players a slight advantage in seeing the directions that the other players are heading.

Is that enough to offset first-player advantage? I doubt it, but it's a slight perk.

5806

Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Small hand, big gain...

« on: July 20, 2011, 04:17:14 pm »

If I already have a Duchy, then when I buy a duke, I gain an extra point. If I don't, I don't. So it's about making those cards you buy worth more.

Ah, good point, both of you. I only saw the action of Island and didn't think about how you could gain points with a specific Garden/Duke/etc.

5807

Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Small hand, big gain...

« on: July 20, 2011, 11:53:51 am »

Maybe I'm missing something, but why is Island even being considered? The riddle asks for the most VPs you can gain in this turn. You don't use Islands to gain VPs.

I suppose one could argue that when the game ends, you "gain" all those VPs you stored on the Island mat, but that's not really during your turn.

Or is there something about the riddle that I'm just not interpreting correctly?

Edit: Added spoiler tag since the point is not as moot as I thought it was.

5808

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Combo? Contraband/Expand

« on: July 19, 2011, 02:35:41 pm »

This combo also has the problem of opponent simply denying the expand purchase. On certain boards, such as those without extra buys outside of contraband or those with upgrade/remake can be pretty critical.

True, but the opponent can only deny Expand for too long. If you can afford Expand, then you can afford Gold (unless you used a Quarry). In fact, if you're getting to the point where you can afford Expand, then you're going to be able to afford Provinces soon, and woe be to the opponent who foolishly chooses Expand instead of Province.

Also, unless you bought four or five Contrabands (why would you do that?), you're going to be able to afford Expand on your own without Contraband. Your opponent can't deny you the Expand if you don't let him.

5809

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Combo? Contraband/Expand

« on: July 18, 2011, 10:39:37 am »

I don't really see it as a combo and more of recognizing the necessity of trimming the fat. There are a few cards that are great to buy early on which just become dead weight later. Moneylender is one such card. So is Chapel if there aren't any Curses. Even the Chancellor becomes just a terminal silver late in the game when you don't want to shuffle your deck. Contraband is a great card early on, especially if there are plenty of good cards to choose from when your opponent forbids you from buying Gold or Platinum, but it becomes an albatross later when you're prevented by buying Province or Colony. Your only hope is to get the coins needed with only four cards instead of five.

Although, I'd say that Contraband is less of a dead card than Moneylender or Chapel, since you could still use it for good effect. Got 10 coins? Maybe you can't buy that Province, but you can buy two Duchies. Sure, it's not the most ideal situation, but if there's not another shuffle coming up, who cares? If there are other victory cards, then you can mitigate the harm of the Contraband by spending your 8 on a Nobles and an Estate. They're worth the same as a Duchy, and give you a useful card if you need to reshuffle (though buying that Estate with an impending reshuffle probably isn't the most efficient use of your deck).

Trashing it before the late game is ideal. Trashing it for a benefit is even better. I'll gladly buy a Contraband (maybe even two or three!) if the board also has Salvager or Apprentice.

I almost wonder if there ought to be a term for cards that shine early and then become useless later. Balloon loans maybe, if I want to use boring mortgage terms.

5810

Dominion Isotropic / Re: Decline of civility on isotropic?

« on: July 14, 2011, 10:13:34 am »

The important thing is the memories we're making.

Anyone else read that in GLaDOS's voice?

Not at first, but now that I have, it's freakin' hilarious.

5811

Dominion General Discussion / Re: What are the white/blank cards used for?

« on: July 12, 2011, 04:07:06 pm »

I believe they were intended to mark an empty pile, as I still use them for.

Donald has said that the Randomizer cards were originally meant to mark empty piles, which is why the basic Treasure and Victory cards have them in the original box. Though, using the blank cards is certainly viable. I normally use cards from the Trash or even just a Copper (since they very rarely run out).

Blank cards are, I believe, meant for customization. A lot of games do that.

Between the period when Cornucopia was announced and when Cornucopia hit the stores, I toyed with the idea of using the blank cards to represent various Cornucopia cards so I could play with them before I bought them. My schedule never allowed me to do that, and Isotropic provided that fix anyway. I may do that for the next expansion.

5812

Dominion FAQ / Re: Dominion Lingo Dictionary

« on: July 12, 2011, 01:34:09 pm »

I like the definitions for mid-game, late-game, etc. I'm sure many new players are unaware of when exactly mid-game happens. If you don't have dozens (hundreds) of games under your belt, you may have difficulty knowing when the game shifts.

Not to open a cantrip debate, but I think the definition should change from:

Cantrip:  Any card that gives at least +1 Card, +1 Action; it costs no action to spend it and it replaces itself in the hand.  (Definition is disputed.)

To:

Cantrip: Any card that gives +1 Card, +1 Action; it costs no action to spend it, and it replaces itself in the hand. It usually has some other benefit, but the end result is that you usually end up with the same number of cards in hand and the same number of actions while getting closer to a reshuffle. (Definition is disputed)

I bring that up because with the current definition, Laboratory, Warehouse, and City all would technically qualify as Cantrips.

5813

Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Easy trivia question

« on: July 12, 2011, 09:34:10 am »

I'd like to throw in my support for this puzzle. It's simple, and it doesn't require weird mental gymnastics. Yet, I still was stumped by it and had to look ahead.

I'd like to see more questions like this. I like the, "What do these cards have in common?" questions.

5814

Dominion Isotropic / Re: Decline of civility on isotropic?

« on: July 12, 2011, 09:17:19 am »

I've met him too, but didn't we agree on not having a public blacklist here?

That really is up to Theory, since this is his board. I don't recall him weighing in on this, but I suspect (only suspect, mind you) that he runs this board with a laissez-faire attitude. As long as you're civil in your posts and use the proper spoiler in puzzles, maybe anything goes. I don't know the guy, so please accept my assessment with a grain of salt.

That being said, this is the same kind of talk that you could see in the lobby of Isotropic. People are warning others of bad players. You only have their word that they experienced those negative interactions. Granted, it's more permanent here, but the concept is still the same.

Although, it's worth pointing out (or reminding) that names on Isotropic are not permanent. The bad players you lambast could have easily changed names and made your warning pointless. Even worse, if that problem player used the name of a common term or movie or character, then you may be blacklisting an innocent person. For example, someone mentioned Professor X. He's a great character, so fans tend to use his name. If the jerk who went as Professor X decided to change his name to Magneto, then the next person who decides to take Professor X could be shunned. And let's not forget variants. What is someone goes as Prof X? Technically, the name is different, but we humans just remember that it's the name of the head of the X-Men. That person might get blacklisted too.

Such talk is useful, but we all need to be aware that it's not perfect. In fact, I'd be willing to wager that if a few days have passed, it may be worth giving that name a second chance. Of course, if the same name burns you twice across a length of time, then it may be safe to assume that this name will always be a dick, but it's still only an assumption.

I wonder, though, if someone's name could be snatched up on Isotropic? Is the name reserved for your e-mail address until you request a new one? I'd hate to think that someone could log in as Theory and try to trash his good name (or take advantage of his higher level).

5815

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Really bad card ideas

« on: July 07, 2011, 08:54:41 am »

Ace up the sleeve
Action
Cost: $4
Choose one: +1 Card; or +1 Action; or +1 Buy; or +1 Coin; or set aside this card onto your sleeve mat.

You may return this card from the sleeve mat to your hand at any of your action or buy phase. If you do, +1 Action and play it immediately.

Sleeve mat? No, no, this should literally require you to set this card aside up your sleeve.

Though, considering the stereotypical hygiene of gamers, I can't blame you for having a sleeve mat.

5816

Tournaments and Events / Re: Competitive Dominion?

« on: July 06, 2011, 03:34:28 pm »

/that being said, this is a tiny single-case example of a story that happened, and certianly (i would suspect) does not represent their marketing strategy. It was just one doofus at a convention table making the obviously incorrect decision. But please, do not try to defend that terrible business decision.

And is it considered a good business decision to give away product to anyone who asks? I'm willing to bet that RGG has channels to go through if you want demo copies. Randomly walking up to a booth at a convention is not the correct channel. For a smaller distributor, that works great. Hey, not only does Ascension get some exposure, but they also have one less box to haul back home should they not sell out at the convention.

Sorry, but if I had a successful venture going and some schlep walks up to me and asks for free product without an introduction, I'd tell him to hit the bricks. I'd need to contact the gaming store directly. Some guy asking for free product and is able to produce "proof" that he owns a store? I'd be suspicious of a scam artist. What proof did he provide? A business card? Anyone can make a set of 50 for cheap. Stationery?  Also cheap to produce.

Now, I would admit that the booth retailer should have said, "I'm sorry, but I am not authorized to give out copies here. If you would contact our office, you can explain more about your proposal."

Then again, if the first words out of your friend's mouth were, "I'll either buy this game for the $50 that you want to charge me, or you can give me the game for free," then his marketing failed right there. Of course RGG isn't going to bother to listen to anything else he has to say. They're too busy making real money selling to legitimate customers. Hell, that line is pretty boneheaded, even at the Ascension booth, but dealing with the owners of an underdog does have its benefits.

As I've said, RGG does engage in demos. I still remember Jay teaching Ricochet Robots many years back. But c'mon, you expect them to take some yahoo seriously when he flat-out says, "Gimme"? Like they don't get enough requests for handouts/playtests/etc. Introduce yourself first, prove your intentions, and then ask for the free stuff. The only bad marketing I see belongs to your friend.

5817

Tournaments and Events / Re: Competitive Dominion?

« on: July 06, 2011, 01:49:10 pm »

Dominion suffers from the problem that it does not have a good way of extracting from the consumer exactly how much money they are willing to spend on it.

We do not see this as a problem! Yes, the way to extract maximum utility from customers is to charge different people different amounts for essentially the same thing, such as via bonus tracks, or Magic's scheme. But it isn't necessary to bleed customers dry in order to be successful and make more games.

I've never wanted to find a "Like" button more than I do now.

The comparison of Ascension's willingness to give a demo copy to RGG's refusal to give a demo copy isn't really that compelling.

In the case of Ascension, the company pays the cost of one game in order to gain X revenue.

But, for Dominion, the company pays $0 and still gains X revenue.

The main difference is that Dominion is currently the reigning champion in this genre of gaming. Ascension (and Thunderstone, etc.) is doing well, but it doesn't have nearly the market that Dominion has right now. Is it a shame that other fine games are being eclipsed by Dominion's popularity? Sure, but that's the way of things. Somebody has to win out, and Dominion has the simplicity and accessibility to hold that title.

If I were running the RGG booth, I'd have asked for the $50 too. Why give away a demo copy when the customers will do all the work for the company? I personally bring Dominion to many gatherings and introduce many new players to the game. From a business standpoint, why would RGG put forth money to pay for something that I'm willing to do? Hell, not only willing, but I paid for the right to do it.

Ascension is not as popular as Dominion. It may be a great game, but greatness doesn't sell itself without someone willing to put forth the effort. Dominion has those people in spades. Other games may have to work at it more, and that means that the smarter move for those companies is to give demo copies.

That being said, I know that RGG is not above giving demo copies. A friend of mine routinely demos RGG games, and quite a few of his boxes are labeled as demo copies. Dominion is not one of those boxes, and there's a good reason for that.

5818

Game Reports / Re: Sabotuer is a terrible card

« on: July 05, 2011, 03:04:03 pm »

Yeah, for Saboteur to be useful, it has to be used well. If you're busy trying to sabotage and not build up your own deck, you are going to lose, plain and simple.

Most of the time, I ignore Saboteur and just focus on building up my own deck. Sure, I might lose a Province here or there, but I'll also win. Now, if the opponent is skilled and the board is right, then a Saboteur strategy can be downright brutal.

5819

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Curse Variants

« on: July 01, 2011, 02:23:53 pm »

One of my favorite features of a Thunderstone expansion was the introduction of variable Diseases. Basically, like Curses in Dominion, these cards hampered your ability to play. It was -1Attack (which kind of translates in Dominion to -1 Coin). They were effective, but they were boring.

Then one expansion introduced a new Disease deck. This one had multiple Diseases, and they did different things. When I play Thunderstone, I prefer having the wild and unpredictable Disease deck.

Not that I think it's a good idea in Dominion, but it's a thought.

5820

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Thought exercise: nerfs and buffs

« on: July 01, 2011, 02:19:52 pm »

you can get eight coins quickly and then buy a Province every turn afterwards.

True, but while that opponent is building up 8 coins, you're hopefully already buying the Provinces.

By itself, consider what it takes for a successful Pirate Ship to get to 8 coins. You have to use it 8 times to cycle through decks, looking for coins. And that's assuming you hit each and every time. As the game progresses, it becomes harder and harder to hit treasure (though not so much in multiplayer).  So, there are at least 7 lost opportunities for using Pirate Ship as coin (I say 7 because the first time it's played only has one viable choice).

By itself, getting a 8-coin Pirate Ship is too slow and cumbersome. Naturally, this changes with King's Court or crazy action chains, but that's true of many cards.

I've learned that 8-coin Pirate Ship is not the way to go in non-Colony games. Once you get up to 3 or 4 coins, you usually have enough in your hand to supplement it. I've seen it get as high as 6once, but even that was unnecessary.

5821

Dominion Isotropic / Re: Decline of civility on isotropic?

« on: July 01, 2011, 02:12:39 pm »

I'm not sure how you guys even have time to get a "GG" in.  A lot of players I play with just bail from the game almost immediately.

If the other player leaves that quickly, then he's not interested in any post-game chatter, so there's no offense to give. A person has no right to be offended at me if he leaves before I could congratulate him.

And since over 99.9% of my chats are more than 2 letters, I'm not going to feel bad if someone leaves before I could finish typing, "well played."

5822

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Opening of the Day #1 (Strategy Discussion)

« on: June 30, 2011, 01:17:56 pm »

For what it's worth, I think this is a great idea. It lets the advanced players share their thought processes so that inexperienced players can gain some insight. I could have used this when I was learning to play.

FWIW, I was thinking of Silver/Potion to get the Alchemist going, but the comment about how this setup doesn't really help Alchemists has given me pause. I might just go Big Money with some Watchtower for grins.

If I had 5/2, I'd probably go Council Room. Sure, it'd give the other players an extra card, but the potential of buying a Gold in Turn 3 is pretty tasty.

If someone went Saboteur, I might buy the occasional Spy as a sort of meager defense, but I'm not convinced it'd be worth it.

5823

Dominion Isotropic / Re: Decline of civility on isotropic?

« on: June 27, 2011, 01:36:49 pm »

2. After the person lost with something like 60 to -4, saying "gg" just makes them upset. It wasn't a good game *for me*. Watching you play solitaire with your 6 possession cards is not fun. Just leave. Your gg sounds like you're just rubbing it in.

I just never take "gg" literally. I know it means "good game," but it's so overused that I don't even take it to mean that. As others have stated, it's a standard closing message nowadays.

I personally hate "gg." I won't begrudge someone for using it, but I don't ever take it literally. For that reason, I never use it myself. I'll say anything else but "gg." If it was a tight match, I'll say, "That was a close one." If I got skunked, I'll say, "Nicely played." 

As for the other points, you described some first-class dickery there. I wouldn't want to play with those people either. Fortunately, I think those people are in the minority on Isotropic.

I just got back on Isotropic after a hiatus. I played a couple of games with pleasant enjoyable opponents. It felt good, though I did accidentally make myself to be the jerk because I forgot how to view VP chips and the point tracker was disabled. One opponent got his Goons engine going before I could get mine, so I overcompensated when my engine finally took off. He pointed out that I could have ended the game with a sure victory way earlier. I didn't catch the final score, but I'm sure he was right.

So, sorry, I ended up being "that" guy. I brushed up on my Isotropic FAQ so I won't do that again.

Edit: Holy crap! I just looked at Council Room and saw that I won that game 57 to 20 to 13. I really need to focus on counting points. It's one thing to lose a game because I haven't been paying attention, but now I can see why my opponent was miffed at how long I dragged the game out. 

5824

Game Reports / Never send a Golem to barter

« on: June 26, 2011, 05:22:56 pm »

I played a game with Golem. It was a pretty action-sparse setup, so I got Golem mostly to make use of the Menagerie and Lighthouse actions.

After I got smacked with Goons, I decided to keep my Gold, Silver, and Golem. I figured that maybe I could find my own Goons or some other way to get up to 8. After all, I was already 5/8 on my way to a Province!

My first action was Lighthouse. Okay, not bad. Let's see what the second action is. Oh, Horse Traders. Wait, I said while looking at my remaining Gold and Silver in my hand. That sounds like a bad plan. I certainly hope the card says "may." Oh, bugger, it does not. I turned my Gold and Silver into 3 coins, not even enough to get a Duchy.

So now when I play Golem, I give him a message, "Don't give away the homeworld!"

5825

Dominion Isotropic / Re: Decline of civility on isotropic?

« on: June 24, 2011, 07:37:21 pm »

Opponent: normally i win

Heh, I don't think this person realized what this statement implies. If he "normally wins" and you arrived with the minority, then that must mean you're better than him. *grin*

Some people just don't realize that 100% of games generally won't be won--not if you face any experienced, competent opponent. And even a newbie can win. That still doesn't excuse this guy's behavior, though.

If someone accuses me of being lucky, I acknowledge it. Sure, I had luck on my side. I easily could have had the worst hands ever, but I didn't.