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Messages - trivialknot

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576
Dominion Articles / Re: MDMA: deck types
« on: October 18, 2016, 12:17:15 pm »
In WW's article on engines, an engine is described as a deck where you play lots of actions, and draw lots of cards.  But of course playing lots of actions is distinct from drawing lots of cards!  I think of a "good stuff" deck as one that has high action density, but which doesn't necessarily draw lots of cards.  The value of a "good stuff" deck depends on the average value of cards in your deck, not the total value.

For example, suppose that the only village in the kingdom is Crossroads or Diplomat.  Or suppose the only draw is Madman or Native Village.  Or suppose there is no way to get more than 6 VP a turn.

577
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Dominion and Intrigue second editions
« on: October 17, 2016, 02:29:32 pm »
I've also found Sentry to be less powerful than it first appears.  At first it's faster than upgrade or junk dealer, but becomes slower once your deck is less than 50% junk.  I reached the 50% point faster than I expected, by the 4th shuffle?  Which means you only get about one play of Sentry where it is the better trasher.

Of course Junk Dealer eventually becomes a dead card, where Sentry is at least a mini cartographer.  All in all I think it is about the same level as Junk Dealer.

578
Dominion General Discussion / Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition
« on: October 12, 2016, 06:38:35 pm »
Yeah, forgot about the art rankings. There are a lot more cards in this list, there it takes even longer for sure. At least 1500 comparisms is my guess. Nothing I can do, it's already pretty optimised.
If the algorithm is optimized, the average number comparisons is log(N!)/log(2).  Using Stirling's approximation, that's (N ln(N) - N)/ln(2).  For 394 pieces of art, that's about 2800 duels.

The number of clicks required is really quite unfortunate.  It's probably worthwhile to use the rating system first, and then transfer to comparison mode.

579
Dominion General Discussion / Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition
« on: October 12, 2016, 12:31:35 pm »
Question for Qvist: When we submit, does it automatically submit the rankings of all kingdom cards?  I have time to rank the individual categories, but I think the all-kingdom-card ranking will remain incomplete.

I also ran into a bug earlier, where my rankings kept on getting jumbled.  I'm pretty sure it's because I had two tabs open, one for favorite cards, one for best cards, and was doing them simultaneously.  So, uh, don't do that.  Luckily I copy my list over to a spreadsheet.

580
Dominion General Discussion / Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition
« on: October 12, 2016, 12:08:16 pm »
How are you all rating Landmarks?  I ended up ranking them by a) how interesting I thought they were and 2) how much they impacted a given game.  To that end, I ended up putting Wall at #1.
I rated landmarks by 1) how much they impact games, and 2) how much you "go" for them, putting priority on 1).  There are some, like Colonnade, that you always go for, but doesn't impact games that much.  As for how interesting they are, I feel that should be reserved for the "favorite" card rankings.

I also put Wall at #1, and Keep at #2.

581
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Meta?
« on: October 11, 2016, 04:39:00 pm »
In an optimal strategy, you don't need to make any presumptions of your opponent's strategy.  You watch what they do, and react to that.  If you react to what you predict your opponents will do, then they can just not do the thing.

However, people don't play optimally, therefore there is meta.  The fact that there is meta is proof that people aren't playing optimally.

The most obvious kind of meta is when newbies think Thief is really devastating, so the best strategy is to prepare for some Thieves.  However, I suspect that the metagame online is more subtle, since the players are better?  I dunno, I play offline only.

582
Dominion General Discussion / Re: More new promos?
« on: October 11, 2016, 11:40:50 am »
Blowing up the text big, it seems to say:

Quote
Princess, $3 Reaction
When another player plays an Attack card, the Princess can be discarded to seduce the attacker.  You are unaffected by that Attack card, and the whole attack is treated as if the attack card was played by you.

Knight also costs 3.  The text is covered up, but it appears to be an action/reaction, although there is no dividing line?  I don't think these are real cards.

583
Some considerations:

-You either keep the estates now, or you draw them in your next shuffle.  So that's the same number of dead cards either way.
-However, you might just draw the estates next turn and discard them with your dungeon.
-Also, if you put the estates in the next shuffle, they might just appear at the bottom of that shuffle, and then skip the next shuffle.

So in most cases, I would discard the estates and make the copper miss the shuffle.  Edge case: if my deck has a Baron, I'd discard only one estate.

584
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Matching up cards
« on: October 08, 2016, 03:06:40 am »
You're missing the most obvious way to match up cards, which is to have a lot of copies of the cards.

585
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Why i love Dominion with all its Duds
« on: October 05, 2016, 12:27:03 am »
If that's a "boring" combination, then 2/3 of Dominion is boring.
No one on f.ds is allowed to dislike any fraction of Dominion (unless we're talking about BM or slogs or anything other than an engine really, in which case hate away).

586
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Dominion and Intrigue second editions
« on: September 30, 2016, 12:21:34 pm »
My thoughts on Courtier:
A $5 card that provided $3 and +buy would compare favorably with Wine Merchant.
A $5 card that provided $3 and a Gold gain would compare very favorably with Explorer.
On most boards, Courtier is better than either of those cards, because it can trivially be either, or one of the other four combination of two options.  Occasionally, in the presence of cards with three or more types, it can be great (non-terminal $3 and buy is the safe combination, but sometimes the Gold gain is really valuable).  Even when it misses, it isn't horrible.  A terminal Gold or Gold-gainer is sometimes good enough, especially early in the game (when Courtier is more likely to miss).

Courtier is primarily a non-attack payload card, which tend to be unpopular, but it is one of the strongest in that category.  I think it might be around the power level of Merchant Guild, but time will tell.
But most cards with two types are actions, and you have to play Courtier first.  So a lot of the time you'd choose +1 Action, +$3 or possibly +1 Action, gain a gold.

587
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Alchemy 2nd Edition
« on: September 29, 2016, 05:20:30 pm »
I don't really like Alchemy and oppose revisiting it.  But if we must, I would rethink the whole concept.

I think the potion mechanic is most successful when it functions as a floodgate.  In most cases, you only draw it once per shuffle.  Alchemists are great in large quantities, but it takes four shuffles to get 4 Alchemists, and you could get a teacher in about as much time.

The problem is that you're sad when you draw your potion and fail to hit the price point you need.  Thus I propose that all potion-cost cards should cost potion + debt.

In theory, you could also design potion-cost cards that you only want 1-2 copies of.  These cards must be strong to offset the cost of buying a whole potion just for that.  The problem is then that there's too much synergy between different potion-cost cards, as you could use the same potion to buy different cards at different points in the game.  So either the card is too weak on its own (looking at you, Transmute), or too strong with other potion cards.  Maybe these cards should trash the potion on buy.

Herbalist seems specifically designed to open up the floodgates further, but doesn't work too well with only basic treasure.  Even if it collides with gold, Herbalist only nets you $4, at the cost of 2 draw and 1 action.  I think it should be a cantrip, or +2 Cards.

588
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Seaside 2nd generation
« on: September 29, 2016, 02:33:38 pm »
From a Kingdom designers POV, Embargo can be a neat way of nerfing a powerful but monolithic strategy on a board. If there is a fairly strong engine, do you really want to go Rebuild and gain at least 4 Curses? Plus it can also make keeping your strategy secret a while longer useful. I like when it matters if your opponent can't figure out your strategy right away.
Unfortunately, Embargo vs Rebuild is not a very good strategy.  In general, embargo is good against strategies that commit themselves, things that your opponent will have trouble backing out of.  Rebuild fits the bill, but the problem is, they really aren't buying that many Rebuilds after they've committed.  In a non-mirror, the Rebuild player needs 2 duchies and 8 plays of rebuild.  4 Curses is pretty optimistic.

Furthermore, remember that the Rebuild player can embargo you right back.  Embargo is a decent card for the Rebuild player, since it gives something to buy on <$5 hands, helps them hit $5, and then removes itself from the deck, leaving more space to play Rebuild.  Also, Province is an excellent target for Embargo, since the Rebuild player never buys them directly.

589
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Seaside 2nd generation
« on: September 28, 2016, 05:13:36 pm »
Explorer is especially great in Feudal Japan.  So many coins...

590
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Trying to get the number increaser to work
« on: September 27, 2016, 03:57:40 pm »
Rules questions: What if Rats gives me +1 Card when I trash it?  What if Villa gives me +1 Action when I buy it?  What if I would have drawn a card, except I have my -1 card token?

Balance issues: In a typical game, YoP is like saying for the rest of your turn, you have Pathfinding, Training, and/or Lost Arts on nearly every action.  This is kind of extreme!  It's also very luck-based, since sometimes you draw YoP and draw everything, and sometimes you don't.  You might consider letting it affect only one action, and then it might be on par with Bazaar.  Of course, this would take away part of what makes the concept interesting in the first place.

591
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Dominion and Intrigue second editions
« on: September 26, 2016, 08:16:22 pm »
How can you not love Embargo?  It's like Messenger's on-buy ability, in that it affects everyone equally, and the only benefit is in exploiting differences between the players' strategies.  Exploiting asymmetry is not strong, but it's satisfying, like executing a successful Rats strategy, or getting those Treasure Maps to collide.  (Note: Treasure Map is ranked after Pirate Ship, but still no one has suggested its removal.)

Embargo is also a very high skill card.  No longer is the game just about finding the best strategy, it's about knowing the second best strategy, etc., and knowing how to pivot between them.

592
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Dominion and Intrigue second editions
« on: September 26, 2016, 01:15:02 pm »
What happens when I play a Merchant but have previously played a Silver this turn (Storyteller, Villa, Black Market)?  US the bonus retroactive?  Triggered by the next Silver play?  Lost?

This is also why Merchant says "first" rather than "next."

...So does this mean if you play Merchant ''after'' the "first Silver you play this turn" (via Storyteller or whatever), you don't get the bonus for the next Silver you play?
Yes. When you played your first Silver, you didn't have the Merchant around.

593
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Doubling Events: Shady Deal and Blessing
« on: September 25, 2016, 04:21:02 pm »
Shady deal seems difficult to balance given the wide range of event costs.  What if it just said:

Once per turn: +1 Buy.  The next time you buy an event this turn, +1 Buy, +$1.

This allows you to buy an event multiple times, but the cost scales with the event.  It allows you to do other things too...

594
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Dominion and Intrigue second editions
« on: September 25, 2016, 12:42:06 pm »
Impressions of new cards:

Artisan - At first I missed that the gained card goes to hand, and it just seemed weaker than Altar.  But you can gain to hand!!  And if you gained an action dead, you can just top-deck it.  This seems strong.
Bandit - Thief was an interesting card, but it was so weak that we almost never get to try it.  I'm excited to see a thief-like card that is actually playable.  It still looks weak, but not unplayably weak.
Sentry - So obviously very strong.  There are only a few other trashers that don't decrease your hand size (Masquerade, Spice Merchant).
Poacher - I'm excited to switch to talking about "Poacher variants" instead of "Peddler variants".
Merchant - An interesting Poacher variant.  Newbies tend to miss that silver is a really good card, and this could help them see it.
Harbinger - This seems a lot swingier than Scheme.
Vassal - Nice card, although I think it is on the weak side.  If you draw a Vassal and another terminal, choosing Vassal is a risky decision.

Courtier - This is really bad if you only get one of the options, but great if you get two.  I don't really like the fact that its power seems so arbitrary.
Patrol - This is a lot worse than Scout at countering Rabble.
Replace - A top-decking Remodel is interesting enough, and it's a curser too?  I think it will feel different from most cursers, because it happens only in the greening stage.
Diplomat - Agree with others that this is a confusing card.  It's awful without support, but awesome with it.
Mill - I think this card is, at the moment, being way underrated.  It's comparable to Horse Traders in that it will very often help you hit $5, except it's nonterminal and can be used as a cantrip when you don't want it.  Would buy even without the VP.
Secret Passage - This is an intriguing card.  So do you use this to smooth out your deck, or do you use it as a quasi-fugitive by bottom-decking cards?
Lurker - I think people are overestimating this card.  Playing two ruined villages to gain an action, that's so weak.  I could have bought silvers and then bought the action directly.  Of course, regardless of power level, it's a great card.  It's also nice that it sort of introduces newbies to the idea of pile control, although it doesn't hit you over the head with it.

595
Dominion General Discussion / Re: New Promo Card
« on: September 23, 2016, 07:09:35 pm »
Is it just me, or does Sauna/Avanto seem really strong?

Suppose that you're the only one picking up Saunas.  You can take Saunas on $4, silvers on $3, and by the time the Avantos show up, you can easily afford them, and they function as double-labs that only you have access to.  This is such a good position for you, that your opponent ought to stop you by competing for Saunas early on.  So the Saunas will go fairly quickly.

596
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Dominion and Intrigue second editions
« on: September 23, 2016, 11:18:11 am »
Just to be clear, are we losing the Base Card randomizer cards that nobody liked or used anyway? I assume so, just curious.
Yes.  This was stated on BGG:
Quote from: LastFootnote
Oh, oops. Yes, those base card "randomizers" are being removed. I don't think that's much of a spoiler, but uh there you are. I'm guessing Donald would have mentioned that in his big "here are the changes" post if he'd thought of it.

597
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Dominion and Intrigue second editions
« on: September 23, 2016, 01:49:54 am »
You could probably fix Scout and Secret Chamber by combining them.  Have its reaction be identical to Secret Chamber, and when you play it, it's a terminal Scout followed by Secret Chamber.

598
I like getting criticism for cards, and would be sad if people held back just because their own cards have typos.  :'(

599
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Dominion and Intrigue second editions
« on: September 22, 2016, 03:59:04 pm »
Question: will the new cards be completely different, or will they be "improved" versions of the old cards?  Given the replaced cards and the replacing cards, could I match them up one-to-one and say, "now this one is the new Scout!"?

600
Quote
Ambush
Types: Event
Cost: $2
+1 Action
+1 Buy
Return to your Action phase.
Quote
Hired Help
Types: Event
Cost: $2
+1 Action
+1 Buy
Return to your Action phase.
As mentioned previously, I have tested a card similar to this and liked it.  You might think the limitations of Villa are essential (you gain a Villa, and only 10 Villas per game), but I assert that they are not.  If you're willing to turn silvers into necropolises, Villas are probably a thing you wanted in your deck.

Quote
Appraise
Types: Event
Cost: $0
You may discard a card costing at least $3. If you do, +1 Buy, and cards cost $1 less this turn, but not less than $0.
I like that this event limits itself, because you need to discard increasingly expensive cards to make it stack.  Of course, non-drawing highways are often just bad.

Quote
Blackmail
Types: Event
Cost: $5
Gain a card costing up to $4. Each other player reveals the bottom card of their deck and gains a Curse if it isn't a Curse. All players put any cards gained from this Event on the bottom of their deck.
This is obviously stronger than IGG, which without on-gain isn't even worth $2.  Although the fact that you bottom-deck the $4 puts up a giant "blackmail me!" sign.  That's cute.  A bit political.

Quote
Coin Collection
Types: Event
Cost: $0
You may discard a Copper, a Silver and a Gold. If you do, gain a Province.
This is going along with the "eat your vegetables" theme of Empires, but I feel it's missing something.  Empires makes basic cards exciting, but this just makes them more powerful without making them more exciting.

Quote
Credit
Types: Event
Cost: $0
Take up to <9> and gain a card costing exactly $3 less than the amount of debt you took.
Quote
Report
Types: Event
Cost: <8>
Gain a card costing up to $5. Put your deck in your discard pile.
Not that either of these are bad, but Overlord is amazing, and I have trouble seeing past the fact that these are not as awesome as Overlord.

Quote
Depository
Types: Event
Cost: $0
+1 Buy
+$8

You may not buy any victory cards this turn. At the end of your turn, if you bought at most 1 card, gain its $ cost in VP and debt +<2>. Otherwise, take <9>.
This lets you get an arbitrary amount of VP on your first turn.  I'm sure this was meant to have a "once per turn" clause, but it's still abusive to earn 5 VP every turn.

Quote
Exploit
Types: Event
Cost: $7
Turn your Journey Token over (it starts face up) and reveal the top three cards of your deck.

If it's face up, gain a copy of each of the three cards.
If it's face down, trash all three cards.
I don't like that this is so transparently swingy.

Quote
Forgery
Types: Event
Cost: $4
+1 Buy

You may reveal an Action card from your hand. If you do, gain a copy of that card.
Play an action, or keep it in hand to make copies?  Neat choice.  Makes me want to have big turns where I hit $8 and have a nice action remaining in hand.  Could copy dead terminals but if you're over-terminaled maybe you don't want more of them.

Quote
Goldrush
Types: Event
Cost: <4>
Gain the top card of the Goldrush pile.

Setup: Take the top card from each kingdom supply pile. Arrange them by $ cost first and name second to form the Goldrush pile.

Clarification: The Goldrush pile is not in the supply. Cards in the Goldrush are "from" their original piles, not the Goldrush pile, so e.g. Ambassador will return a card which was gained using Goldrush to its original pile.  Debt and potion costs are ignored when arranging the Goldrush pile.
It's a neat concept, but I wouldn't want to pay extra for $2s just to get access to the $3s and $4s, especially when opponents also get access.  I thought maybe you'd buy a few in a row, to get to important cards without letting your opponent reach them, but then you could just buy those cards from the supply directly.

Hmm, with this around, I might actually get Transmute.

Quote
Insider's Deal
Types: Event
Cost: $0
Once per turn: Take up to <6>. Gain a card costing exactly $1 per <> taken and a Copper, putting each on top of your deck.
This is pretty awesome.  At first, I thought it was too strong, but it's comparable to Borrow.  I'd probably buy this a lot, and it would be terrible but feel so good.

Quote
Invent
Types: Event
Cost: $1
+1 Buy
Once per turn: Flip your Journey Token over. If it's face up, +$3
This would have wide-reaching and interesting effects on games.  Sometimes you use this to make your deck spikier, sometimes to make it smoother.  $5- and $6-cost cards won't have as much opportunity cost.  I'm not sure I like the effect on the opening, as $3/$5 is usually a lot better than $2/$6.

Quote
Moon Bridge
Types: Event
Cost: $1 <2>
Once per turn: +2 Buys, and all cards (including cards in players' hands) cost $1 less this turn, but not less than $0.
Cost reduction is not that exciting when it doesn't stack.  Often this is a cheaper once-per-turn Traveling Fair.

Quote
Offering
Types: Event
Cost: $0
You may trash a Gold, a Silver and a Copper from your hand. If you did, gain a Province, a Duchy and an Estate.
Now this has some of the zing that Coin Collection was missing.  It's not very strong, but you'd definitely still buy it in the late game.  You might even adjust some of the earlier strategy, to make sure you have the treasure to trash later on.

Quote
Prophecy
Types: Event
Cost: $4
At the start of the Clean-up phase:

+5 Cards
Discard 5 cards.
(Surely this was meant to say at the end of cleanup.)  This is a much stronger Scouting Party that costs $2 more and a buy.  I think that makes it different enough to be worth trying.

Quote
Rally
Types: Event
Cost: <3>
+1 Buy

Put a card from your discard pile on top of your deck.
I like this.  Herald's overpay effect gets its chance to shine, without being overshadowed by the rest of Herald.

Quote
Renovate
Types: Event
Cost: $3
Trash a card you have in play. Gain a card costing exactly $2 more, putting it on top of your deck.
I think the comparison to Remodel is slightly off--you can't renovate Estates.  You might use this an alternative to Bonfire, turning coppers into hamlets/duchesses/whatever.  Better use: turn $3s into $5s.  Develop Estate, Renovate Develop, sounds great!

Quote
Sustain Endeavor
Types: Event
Cost: $4
Once per turn: Set aside a card you have in play and play it at the start of next turn.
I have no idea how this would turn out.  Playing a Wharf every turn, definitely worth it.  Playing a Merchant Ship every turn, lol.  Well, you probably don't buy this every turn.

Quote
Tavern
Types: Event
Cost: $2
+1 Buy

Put a non-Reserve Treasure or Action card from your hand on your Tavern mat.
If it is a Treasure you may call it at the beginning of your Buy phase.
If it is an Action you may call it at the beginning of your turn to play it.
You can use this as a Save that also grants extra actions, or as a variant of Bonfire.  It's definitely underpriced, might be good at $3.

Quote
Toll Bridge
Types: Event
Cost: $1
+1 Buy

All cards cost $2 less this turn but not less than $0. Each other player chooses one: draw a card, or +1 VP.
That isn't a good drawback for making Provinces cost $0.

Quote
Tollhouse
Types: Event
Cost: $2
Each player with <> gains a Curse. If they do, they lose all <>.

In games containing this, when you shuffle, take <1>.
Similar to Blackmail, this hands out a curse once per shuffle.  I am not sure I like this debt mechanic.  If I shuffle during cleanup, I'm vulnerable, but if I shuffle while playing a Smithy, I'm safe.  That's weird to wrap my head around.  Also, if I hit $5 right on the turn that my opponent is vulnerable, that feels sad.

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