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76

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Ironwork-ish drawer

« on: November 10, 2016, 02:56:13 am »

Ah, now I understand his point.
This is totally right although the notion that "+3 Cards, +1$" is stronger than 5 is still dubious and most of the times you don't play with merely Treasures or Actions but with a mixture of both.

77

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Ironwork-ish drawer

« on: November 09, 2016, 03:23:33 pm »

Name: Coal Miner
Type: Action
Cost: 6

Name a type.
Reveal the top 3 cards of your deck and put the revealed cards of the named type into your hand. Discard the rest.
If you named ...
Action card, +1 Action
Treasure card, + 1 Coin           
Victory card, +1 Card per revealed Victory card, +1 VP per revealed Victory card

I don't like the debt cost for this card. It seems viable in a 3(Silver)/4(Coal Miner) split in some kingdoms. Since 3 of the 4 debt only costed cards in the game are card gain(Engineer) or needs setup (City Quarter/Royal Blacksmith), and Overlord costs 8 debt with is much more of a commitment. Why not just turn this card into normal 5 or 6 costed card or rework it into a 8 debt costed card.

If you waste an opening move on this you will have a card which is most likely a bit weaker than a Smithy (you will choose the Treasure option and thus most likely get 2 Cards and one coin out of it). Safe to say that this would be a huge blunder so it is unproblematic to use Debt cost for Coal Miner (just because official cards only feature two different Debt costs doesn't mean that fan cards have to do the same; all you gotta check is whether a card with a Debt price is too strong in the opening which is not the case here).

Of course I do consider to buff it such that it could become a 5 (it is certainly far too weak to ever be a 6).

If you open Coal Miner / Silver then your turn 3/4 Coal Miner play will have results exactly identical to +3 Cards +$1.

No, it depends on whether the revealed cards are all Treasures. Ignoring turn 4/5 complexity issues (depends on what you bought in turns 3/4) you will have 8 Treasures and 3 Shelters/Victory cards so chances to draw 3 Treasures are 0.34 and chances to draw 2 Treasures are 0.51.
As I already said, the most likely scenario is "+2 Cards +$1" and this is similar in strength to a Smithy.

Whether you discard any non-Treasures when you play Coal Miner or in cleanup doesn't make any difference, they're not doing anything for you either way.

Huh? It makes a huge difference whether you topdeck or discard the revealed Estates. I don't think you understand how the card is working.
Actually the early Estate sifting is the only good thing about getting Coal Miner early.

78

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Ironwork-ish drawer

« on: November 09, 2016, 06:06:07 am »

I am probably gonna use this version for playtesting. It includes LA's idea of choosing the type after revealing and gives you the choice between discarding and topdecking any number of the other cards. This should especially help the Victory (topdeck Treasures you immediately draw) and Treasure (topdeck Actions for the next turn) options which I considered to be too weak so far.


Name: Coal Miner
Type: Action
Cost:

Reveal the top 3 cards of your deck, name a type and put the revealed cards of this type into your hand. Put any number of the other revealed cards onto your deck and discard the rest.
If you named ...
Action card, +1 Action
Treasure card, +           
Victory card, +1 Card per revealed Victory card, +1 per revealed Victory card

79

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Ironwork-ish drawer

« on: November 09, 2016, 05:29:47 am »

Name: Coal Miner
Type: Action
Cost: 6

Name a type.
Reveal the top 3 cards of your deck and put the revealed cards of the named type into your hand. Discard the rest.
If you named ...
Action card, +1 Action
Treasure card, + 1 Coin           
Victory card, +1 Card per revealed Victory card, +1 VP per revealed Victory card

I don't like the debt cost for this card. It seems viable in a 3(Silver)/4(Coal Miner) split in some kingdoms. Since 3 of the 4 debt only costed cards in the game are card gain(Engineer) or needs setup (City Quarter/Royal Blacksmith), and Overlord costs 8 debt with is much more of a commitment. Why not just turn this card into normal 5 or 6 costed card or rework it into a 8 debt costed card.

If you waste an opening move on this you will have a card which is most likely a bit weaker than a Smithy (you will choose the Treasure option and thus most likely get 2 Cards and one coin out of it). Safe to say that this would be a huge blunder so it is unproblematic to use Debt cost for Coal Miner (just because official cards only feature two different Debt costs doesn't mean that fan cards have to do the same; all you gotta check is whether a card with a Debt price is too strong in the opening which is not the case here).

Of course I do consider to buff it such that it could become a 5 (it is certainly far too weak to ever be a 6).

80

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Ironwork-ish drawer

« on: November 09, 2016, 03:56:50 am »

I don't think that my version is too strong for 5 but that it is between a 4 and a 5.

Your version of deciding after drawing is interesting and I considered it as a buff to make my card a 5 ... but I doubt that it is worth 8 Debt. In order for this to be better than Lab you need to reveal 3 out of 3 Action cards which rarely happens. And the Treasure option is only better than a Smithy if you draw 3 out of 3 Treasures.

81

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Ironwork-ish drawer

« on: November 07, 2016, 03:29:55 am »

I don't like giving you free VP. It seems too easy to build an unstoppable VP engine with this and lost arts.

Lost Arts (or TR variants) can convert any terminal card that provides VPs into a (quasi) non-terminal none.
As it stand the Victory card option is by far the weakest, especially when you compare it to cards like Patrol. So I do consider to change it into:


Name: Coal Miner
Type: Action
Cost: 6

Name a type.
Reveal the top 3 cards of your deck and put the revealed cards of the named type into your hand. Discard the rest.
If you named ...
Action card, +1 Action
Treasure card, +           
Victory card, +1 Card per revealed Victory card, +1 per revealed Victory card

82

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Ironwork-ish drawer

« on: November 06, 2016, 09:26:57 am »

I don't follow you here.
In order to be too good for 5 you need to either reveal 3 Actions. With 2 it is just a Lab with some sifting. But if 2/3 of your cards are Action cards you already have a pretty good engine running.

In the case of 3 Treasures "+3 Cards, +1$" is a fairly mediocre 5 whereas "+2 Cards, +1$" is similar in strength so Smithy.

83

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Ironwork-ish drawer

« on: November 06, 2016, 06:52:01 am »

Just out of curiosity, did you see Foundry first from my thread?

As for the card, it looks cool. The cost looks a little superflous though, maybe putting it at and just buffing it? And while none of the options are power in their own right, it has flexibility.

Nope, I saw it back in the days but you due to your giant art project you reminded me of it again. 

I am not sure about any of the values, this requires some playtesting.

84

Variants and Fan Cards / Ironwork-ish drawer

« on: November 06, 2016, 04:36:15 am »

OK, this is inspired by Ben's Foundry.


Name: Coal Miner
Type: Action
Cost:

Reveal the top 3 cards of your deck, name a type and put the revealed cards of this type into your hand. Put any number of the other revealed cards onto your deck and discard the rest.
If you named ...
Action card, +1 Action
Treasure card, +           
Victory card, +1 Card per revealed Victory card, +1 per revealed Victory card



Foundry's main problem is, as Fragasnap has pointed out, that it is a very strong BM card. My version rather suffers from the opposite problem, you might sometimes end up with "+2 Cards, +1$" if you choose Treasures which is a bit worse than Smithy. But two coins is clearly too much.
As Victory cards are often the worst choice I tried to add the VP token but it might not be enough.
With Action cards this might be most (or even too) attractive, as it is a cantrip / Lab / Double Lab. You could also view it as a small Scrying Pool.

About the costs, my hunch is that it is too strong for 4 and too weak for 5, hence the debt cost. I am also not sure about whether the rest should be discarded or topdecked or both. Discarding seems cleaner and clearly better if you go for an engine. Topdecking might be better if you play a second Coal Miner.

85

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: End Times

« on: November 03, 2016, 10:02:50 am »

Graveyard is interesting but a bit on the weak side. In the best case it is a cheap Duchy and in the middle case it is worse than Tunnel which actually does something during the game.

How about making it a Treasure-Victory card?

Graveyard
Cost:
Types: Treasure- Victory
Take a Coin token.
----------------
Worth 1 per empty Supply pile.

86

Mini-Set Design Contest / Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 11: Dark Ages (Voting! Finally!)

« on: November 03, 2016, 08:30:44 am »

Sutler is interesting but too expensive. I once thought about making a cantrip that provides one additional random vanilla boni but throwing a die seemed strange in Dominion and above all the card seemed boring and too swingy. This is a far better implentation as you know what you get beforehand and as you can always choose the Village option (get no Ruins, play an Action card from your hand).

The card is still risky though and chances are (before the game, once you run through the Ruins pile in a game the distribution will differ; so technically we have uncertainty about the actual probabilities and thus a tad more risk) 1/5 that you either get a Lab, a Peddler, a Village, a Market Square sans Reaction or a cantrip deck inspector.
These four options are worth 5,4,3, a bit less than 3 and for the cantrip version of Survivors probably around 3.
While Ironmonger is less likely to function as a Lab than Sutler it is better as it always sifts and I am pretty sure that at least in the opening I would prefer Ironmonger over Sutler. I feel safe to claim that Sutler has to cost 4.

Talking about Ironmonger, Iron Maiden is a cool card in the Ironworks family.

Counterpart is too similar to Amulet. It would probably be balanced at 4 without the other players getting something.

Barbarian would probably be OK at 2. It is just a Necro that trashes and the attack would only be worthwhile at a price of 2 and in a Kingdom with extra Buys.

87

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Kru5h's card ideas

« on: November 02, 2016, 04:01:05 am »

I also played around with the concept of spending Actions/Buys.
Cipher looks fine. A cheap Smithy for BM when you green early but that won't make it overpowered.

88

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Strive & Reward

« on: November 02, 2016, 02:51:43 am »

Cathedral would be fun in a game with Patrol.

89

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Cards you don't actually buy

« on: October 30, 2016, 04:20:00 am »

Even with the self-copper junking this might be too strong. It is after all nearly as good as a Festival and would thus be an overpowered 4 without the self-junking clause.

90

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Cards you don't actually buy

« on: October 30, 2016, 03:17:37 am »

You can't make an opponent gain tons of Refugee Camps unless they elect to take one.

Sure. But your current design deterrs players from gaining one Refugee Camp as they might very well end up getting junked with 10 of them so why do the card in the first place if it will most likely never be gained at all?

91

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Cards you don't actually buy

« on: October 29, 2016, 10:14:26 am »

It's worse than Smithy so I thought 3 is ok since 3 and 4 are kind of the same.  But I don't mind putting it at 4 at all. 

Isn't 3 cards take 1 debt almost strictly better than 3 cards discard a treasure? Sometimes you're forced to discard a Silver, not a Copper.

The infinite loop is on purpose.

Well, Overseer has to cost 4 as it is strictly worse than a Smithy.
Taking a Debt can be worse (if you play an engine without any Treasures ) or worse (if you gotta discard Silver/Gold) than discarding a Treasure.

I think that junking an opponent with 10 Refugee Camps could be devastating so I wouldn't go for that.

92

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Cards you don't actually buy

« on: October 29, 2016, 09:19:38 am »

I like Overseer. Could be on the strong side though but then again I think that even "+3 Cards | take 1 Debt" would be on the strong side of 3.

Refugee Camp is technically broken due to the infinite loop but it will probably be OK if you just cut that.

I like Ducat, a  semi-Spoils and a kind of a fixed Duchess which you might actually go for and which thus actually makes Duchies more viable.

93

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Kru5h's card ideas

« on: October 29, 2016, 09:09:57 am »

I like the first version more and would actually have an easier time to explain it to other folks than in the case of the abbreviated text.
I also don't think that Rabbits requires a buff.

94

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: The Fool

« on: October 28, 2016, 11:52:35 am »

This is clearly too strong. Silver as an Action is most likely a bit better than Silver (I think that Donald argued somewhere that it is a bad idea in general or should cost 4 or something like that) for numerous reasons like TR, draw up to X and so on ...
and this is strictly better than ActionSilver.

95

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Quarry Outpost

« on: October 28, 2016, 11:47:17 am »

What I meant is that Quarry Outpost is the only Dominion card I know which provides everything, i.e. Actions, Cards, Coins in the form of Treasure cost reduction and Buys. So far you needed at least two card for that (e.g. Fishing Village and Wharf).
Sure, this is conditional upon more than one player using it as you only get the half of them when the other player(s) are playing this card.
This is important; you should keep in mind that some of us are playing Dominion with 3 players and in this case it becomes easier to actually use the Treasure strategy for the passive players.

Of course you are totally right that such a powerful village makes it easy to play terminals.

96

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Quarry Outpost

« on: October 28, 2016, 08:23:49 am »

OK, let'S try to analyze this. The duration effect is similar in strength to that of a free Market for the other players. The cost reduction can be weaker or stronger than a coin (my hunch is that it is on average a tad weaker).
You get a Village and a duration double Village and Lab
I think the marginal benefit of the second extra Action in the second turn is small (given that the card already provides a Village effect in the first turn so if you have several of them in your deck you surely have enough Actions) so this is kinda like a Village plus a duration Lost City.

My guess is that this is definitely OK for 5$. 6$ seems like too much. The other folks do after all get all that cheap Gold and that extra Buy, i.e. you can easily imagine a game in which Quarry Outpost is the only Action card being played.

97

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Quarry Outpost

« on: October 26, 2016, 03:00:55 pm »

I think folks here are missing that you don't get the extra buy until your next turn and that the duration effect applies to everybody.
What makes the card overpowered is that you draw an extra card next turn.

I think that this version would make more sense. It would have to cost 4$ though (duration Village is roughly a 4)

Quarry Outpost
4$ Action - Duration
+1 Card
+2 Actions
At the start of your next turn: +1 Action
________________________________________________
While this is in play, players begin their turns with +1 Buy and treasures cost 1$ less.

98

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Kru5h's card ideas

« on: October 24, 2016, 06:51:23 am »

Rare Coin/Beaches Split Pile

Rare Coin Treasure,

Worth more if there are no Rare Coins left in the supply.

Beaches Victory,
4
Worth 1 more if there are no beaches left in the supply.

I like this but both cards seem a tad too strong. You could change the size of the pile or scale it according to the number of players.

99

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)

« on: October 24, 2016, 03:58:46 am »

Dusk village used to put things in your hand. I stilll think it should.

That would make it much more viable. As it stands it is to my eyes first and above all a cantrip junker with the village being more of a secondary function.

100

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)

« on: October 23, 2016, 06:08:22 pm »

Dusk Village is cwazy. You can safely run 2 cantrip attacks in your deck that are cheaper than Familiar and provide an Action as cherry on the top.