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Messages - tristan

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151
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« on: September 15, 2016, 03:57:09 am »
Barbarian is similar to Hoard. Of course Hoard has the advantage that it is a a Treasure and that you can regularly play it (i.e when you buy it and play it the first time even without getting a Victory card and a Gold this is not a big issue) whereas Barbarian could sit on the Tavern mat for too long. You could also miss the "tipping point" in a game without extra buys where you did not go for Barbarian early on, generate in all turns more than 3 and wanna buy something better.
So 3 seems like an OK price. I'd also test it at 4 though.

Exchange is good and IMO the best implementation of your Ruins junking idea that has been present in several of your cards.

About Progress, the other player always have an incentive to flash, even in a 3 or 4 player game.
So most often this is worse than a Lab. You only get a Double Lab if, in a 3P game, both other players and you flashed ... but this is just Governor with the draw option and your Double Lab is mitigated by the fact that the other two guys could drew a card.
Of course Lab is so good that a card which is virtually always worse than Lab is OK for 5. But I cannot imagine anyone going for Progress with Lab in the Kingdom.


About Philosophers, it is the first version of Steward but I think that it is borderline viable due to the overpay. Probably still a fairly bland card but that's not the end of the world. With the overpay you can easily get 2 for 4 and this might create enough flexibility in Kingdoms without drawing or extra buys or even without a village.

Quote
Steward: The first version of this gave you a choice between +2 Actions/Buys/Cards/coins. It wasn't interesting enough, so I traded in the Actions and Buys for trashing two cards.

152
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Aleimon Thimble's top 30 favorite cards
« on: September 14, 2016, 03:00:51 am »
Ironmonger, on the other hand, is pretty much always mediocrely good
FTFY
Nope.
A Peddler that discards a Copper is a far better start than a cantrip for 4$.
Herald does have its uses but only in very particular games and even in these games you will virtually always buy a few Ironmongers before you switch towards Heralds.

Unless you don't have access to Ironmonger.
When comparing Ironmonger and Herald it kinda makes sense to assume that they are present in the very same Kingdom.

153
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Aleimon Thimble's top 30 favorite cards
« on: September 13, 2016, 06:03:26 pm »
Ironmonger, on the other hand, is pretty much always mediocrely good
FTFY
Nope.
A Peddler that discards a Copper is a far better start than a cantrip for 4$.
Herald does have its uses but only in very particular games and even in these games you will virtually always buy a few Ironmongers before you switch towards Heralds.

154
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Mystery Moon
« on: September 13, 2016, 02:41:31 pm »
Of course it can be done. For my taste it is far too random and too information-overload-y (assuming that additional Events/Landmarks will often come into the game via this) though.

155
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Aleimon Thimble's top 30 favorite cards
« on: September 13, 2016, 01:56:06 pm »
Ironmonger is useful in every deck. Herald isn't.
Ironmonger is pretty much village in engines with trashing .
Sure. As I said, Ironmonger is useful in every deck whereas Herald is only useful in decks with a sufficiently high Action density.
I never claimed that Herald is not better than Ironmonger in a deck with a high Action density, only that the former is situational whereas the latter is a broad card.
Ironmonger is pretty overrated.
Herald is situational but the situation it is good in is the most common situation.
I totally disagree. Ironmonger is, at least to me, on average the superior card.

156
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Aleimon Thimble's top 30 favorite cards
« on: September 13, 2016, 01:45:18 pm »
Ironmonger is useful in every deck. Herald isn't.
Ironmonger is pretty much village in engines with trashing .
Sure. As I said, Ironmonger is useful in every deck whereas Herald is only useful in decks with a sufficiently high Action density.
I never claimed that Herald is not better than Ironmonger in a deck with a high Action density, only that the former is situational whereas the latter is a broad card.

157
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Aleimon Thimble's top 30 favorite cards
« on: September 13, 2016, 01:23:13 pm »
Ironmonger is useful in every deck. Herald isn't.

158
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Aleimon Thimble's top 30 favorite cards
« on: September 13, 2016, 04:04:02 am »
Herald is just a cheaper, conditional, forced-play version of Lost City. When it shines it is totally brilliant but most of the time it is mediocre or weak.

A cheaper, conditional version of one of the best cards in the game is not a most of the time mediocre or weak card.
In most Kingdoms Herald is weak. Sure, with gainers, decent trashing or in slogs it can shine but it shines rarely.

Why the actual hell would you use Herald in slogs? It's a pure engine card, and one of the strongest ones in the game at that.
The notion that Herald is unconditionally one of the best cards in the game is utterly preposterous.

Herald only becomes good once your deck reaches a decent Action card density. That's why it is good in long games (good luck achieving anything with Herald in games that take 15-20 turns).
As I said, you can reach this density via decent trashing (and mandatory trashers like Trading Post can backfire in the endgame as Herald force-plays Action cards). If gainers are on the board Herald is also OK because the cost of getting Heralds is lower (of course there could be other decent 4s; e.g. Ironmongers are most often better and even a simple Village+Smithy draw engine is most likely to beat a Herald deck) than if you always have to buy it.
Basically, if a Village would suck, then Herald usually also sucks (except if what you're missing is draw, because Herald can provide draw).
On the other hand, if a Village is good, then Herald is amazing (except if you have mandatory trashers you can't get rid of).
It's a timing issue. In a Kingdom with Herald and Village you might want a few Villages during the early game while your Heralds virtually always "miss".
About the game length, as I already said, if the game is short enough the turns in which Herald shines are potentially too few to make Herald a good card in the respective Kingdom.

159
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Aleimon Thimble's top 30 favorite cards
« on: September 13, 2016, 03:44:02 am »
Herald is just a cheaper, conditional, forced-play version of Lost City. When it shines it is totally brilliant but most of the time it is mediocre or weak.

A cheaper, conditional version of one of the best cards in the game is not a most of the time mediocre or weak card.
In most Kingdoms Herald is weak. Sure, with gainers, decent trashing or in slogs it can shine but it shines rarely.

Why the actual hell would you use Herald in slogs? It's a pure engine card, and one of the strongest ones in the game at that.
The notion that Herald is unconditionally one of the best cards in the game is utterly preposterous.

Herald only becomes good once your deck reaches a decent Action card density. That's why it is good in long games (good luck achieving anything with Herald in games that take 15-20 turns).
As I said, you can reach this density via decent trashing (and mandatory trashers like Trading Post can backfire in the endgame as Herald force-plays Action cards). If gainers are on the board Herald is also OK because the cost of getting Heralds is lower (of course there could be other decent 4s; e.g. Ironmongers are most often better and even a simple Village+Smithy draw engine is most likely to beat a Herald deck) than if you always have to buy it.

160
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Aleimon Thimble's top 30 favorite cards
« on: September 13, 2016, 02:15:22 am »
Herald is just a cheaper, conditional, forced-play version of Lost City. When it shines it is totally brilliant but most of the time it is mediocre or weak.

A cheaper, conditional version of one of the best cards in the game is not a most of the time mediocre or weak card.
In most Kingdoms Herald is weak. Sure, with gainers, decent trashing or in slogs it can shine but it shines rarely.

161
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Basketmaker
« on: September 11, 2016, 05:53:21 pm »
I think you might be able to get away with giving it +1 card on play. It could make it too strong (since the overpay is probably really strong).
This has already been done here without the overpay and been called Vizier. It is most of the times stronger than Haven and with the overpay most definitely a 3$.

162
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Basketmaker
« on: September 11, 2016, 05:40:55 pm »
Seems balanced. It is a bit stronger than Necro, just like Haven is a bit better than a cantrip, and without other villages in the Kingdom it is often mandatory. So far a mediocre or bad 2$ (Squire would virtually always be better).
But the overpay makes it OK and when you hit 7 or 8 this is obviously brilliant. With Prince in the Kingdom and 10$ you can gamble with a potentually game-winning edge if Prince hits something decent (and a potentially immediate loss if you cannot feed Prince anything).

163
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Aleimon Thimble's top 30 favorite cards
« on: September 11, 2016, 05:30:58 pm »
Prince is cool as it is so game-changing but Herald is just a cheaper, conditional, forced-play version of Lost City. When it shines it is totally brilliant but most of the time it is mediocre or weak.

164
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Civilization (Beta)
« on: September 10, 2016, 10:38:40 am »
Escort is and incredibly slow Gold gainer with its two conditions.
Decay is plain brilliant.

165
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dragon
« on: September 10, 2016, 07:07:32 am »
Valyria could potentially lead to rules issues with Horn of Plenty and Villa.
As the game is over you cannot gain anything if you play Horn of Plenty. And as the game is over you cannot buy Villa.
Not that it is likely that it will appear (who would buy expensive Treasures in the presence of Dragon?) but the other stuff can simply be houseruled. I'd simply forbid any hand/deck interaction with those other Treasure cards, you simply count the Coins.

What's far more crucial is the correct VP value. I have a hard time judging that.

166
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dragon
« on: September 09, 2016, 08:52:58 pm »
After some playing I changed the cards. Conflagration's untrashability was too good and no fun.

167
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Duration cards with wholly delayed effects
« on: September 09, 2016, 08:35:26 pm »
Totally agree. You can always chain your Caravan Guards but the last Dinghy, the hyperdelayed Peddler, requires you to chain over turns Dinghies (you need the Action that the Dinghy in play provides in order to play the new, dead-terminal Dinghy).
And as we established, the cases in which the resource transfer supermini-Tactician part of a hyperdelayed card is good are extremely rare.

168
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Duration cards with wholly delayed effects
« on: September 08, 2016, 06:22:48 pm »
If you consider a draw engine using a strong draw card (e.g. Hunting Grounds) and Scenic Village (+10 Actions card from the Civilization thread). I am confident adding Layabout to that draw engine would reduce the number of Scenic Villages needed to support it. This allows you to "preload" some of your Scenic Village Actions to the start of your turns.
I agree with your example but it is also pretty extreme due to the weird nature of Scenic Village.

Don't forget that even the presence of an expensive village like City doesn't make Layabout good. You can only transfer an action and a card into the next turn, you don't "generate" an extra action like a village does.
Now there are some +3 Action cards (and Tribute can generate 4 Actions but it is obviously not realiable enough) and here one or two Layabouts could do the trick of action transfer into the next turn.

But in all other cases it is worse than a cantrip.

169
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Making Curses Worse
« on: September 08, 2016, 05:41:55 pm »
Some time ago Multitalented took a shot at two Curse variants, one being a cantrip Curse and the other being an out-of-deck -2VP Curse.
I have no idea about balance and fun but I like that they lead to some extra, seemingly (at least I couldn't tell easily whether choosing the alt-Curse or the normal Curse is better in a particular situation) non-trivial decisions to make during the game. And isn't that why we play tableau- and deckbuilders: lot of decisions to make in a relatively small amount of time (compared to other games)?

170
@Theta- The art for Brick Road is from Settlers of Catan, right?
Yes.

What kind of art should I use for Odessy? Like some sailing boats or what?

I'd go with some ships (maybe Greek ships, just to be more interesting) sailing along the ocean. Something like a combo between Explorer and Expedition.
Ask and ye shall receive!

Great work, that Cyclades art is a perfect fit for Odyssey.

171
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Making Curses Worse
« on: September 08, 2016, 05:09:16 pm »
I am with LFN that Curses are already pretty bad but let's follow through with your idea of making them worse.
I think that something like Hex has an impact whenever the game is junking-intense, probably due to Looters and might end with a 3 pile ending and a low number of VPs. The other instance a "make Curses worse" card is gonna achieve something is when the Curses are split and (nearly) out in the endgame, you remember the count and, when it is in your favour, decide to hurt the other player. In a 2P game that is either gonna be a VP differential of 2 in the case of a 4-6 split or 8 in the case of a 3-7 split (ignoring trashing for the sake of simplicity).
In the first instance Hex is like Island that doesn't set aside anything but itself and in the second case Hex is like Distand Lands.

So I think that one issue of such a card is that it is only about VPs and not about junking. That's not per se bad but it is only about VPs in a limited set of Kingdoms., quite often something like Hex might not be bought.

Perhaps you might wanna try something like handing out two Curses for additioanl junking or implementing it as an Event for immediacy.

172
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Taking Debt as part of an Action
« on: September 08, 2016, 04:58:36 pm »
Thanks for the links, I also found your Armada.
Maybe the best comparison card is Envoy? Investment can be thought of an Envoy that lets you discard a Gold.
Yeah, a little bit proud that I did stuff that is now an obvious fan card design path (although there are slight mechanical differences and as usual novel ideas were not accepted by the rule lawyer fraction on this board :D).
Envoy is also a good comparison. When I first got it thought it was crazy and far stronger than Smithy until playing experience showed its downsides. Similar with Armada/Investment. I also feared that it is too strong but it turned out to be perfectly fine for 4.

The rules lawyers commented on the fact that your card caused the player to have negative coins, which becomes very weird with e.g. Storyteller and Poor House.
Never said that it was perfect but ever since that day I couldn't give less of a crap about folks who don't think about the viability of a general idea first.
I play the card with Debt now and am perfectly happy with it. Of course it is slightly weaker as before you could never reach negative coins at the end of your turn (with a floor being at 0) but still balanced at 4.

Also, your Scientist is an non-perma-duration  straight Action version of my Waterfall.
People don't just say "Wow, what a great general idea." - at least that rarely happens, and only if you are lucky and somebody thinks it's very original.
I do. In this very thread market squire has come up with some novel ideas around Debt. Even if they are not all perfect yet they are great.
Of course this all depends on whether you strive for a finished fan card or an exchange about ideas that can materialize not just in a specific card posted but also influence other fan cards.
One example for novel concepts that are mroe about ideas in flux than finished fan cards are your Spellcaster cards which have been influences by wavile's medallions.

173
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Making Curses Worse
« on: September 08, 2016, 04:49:07 pm »
Seems interesting albeit quite expensive for a one-shot that does nothing for you. It is obviously most interesting in games with no trashing at all and in games with other junkers where Hex is more of a support card than a primary junker.

174
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Duration cards with wholly delayed effects
« on: September 08, 2016, 04:46:20 pm »
Okay, I'm a little confused on what you are trying to prove. I think we can both agree that this isn't strictly worse, but it could be worse. And yes, at the start of your next turn: 1 Card, +2 Actions is probably better than village.
By your weird logic Fishing Village would be better than Bazaar as it is a Bazaar next turn and something now. Obviously this is preposterous.
By your logic Swamp Hag would be WORSE if it provided the 3 coins right now because IT IS A TRIPLE PEDDLER NEXT TURN !!!.

This is not a matter of opinion. A delayed effect is simply worse than the immediate effect. I want my stuff now, not next year when I am dead or next turn when the game might be already over.
FV is better than bazaar in many cases especially if you don't ignore costs.
As it is a "double village" of which you need fewer than "ordinary" villages, no doubt. I only tried to argue against the notion that a Fishing Village version which would do nothing on the current turn, i.e. a hyperdelayed Bazaar, is better than a Bazaar.

175
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Taking Debt as part of an Action
« on: September 08, 2016, 02:51:21 pm »
Thanks for the links, I also found your Armada.
Maybe the best comparison card is Envoy? Investment can be thought of an Envoy that lets you discard a Gold.
Yeah, a little bit proud that I did stuff that is now an obvious fan card design path (although there are slight mechanical differences and as usual novel ideas were not accepted by the rule lawyer fraction on this board :D).
Envoy is also a good comparison. When I first got it thought it was crazy and far stronger than Smithy until playing experience showed its downsides. Similar with Armada/Investment. I also feared that it is too strong but it turned out to be perfectly fine for 4.

The rules lawyers commented on the fact that your card caused the player to have negative coins, which becomes very weird with e.g. Storyteller and Poor House.
Never said that it was perfect but ever since that day I couldn't give less of a crap about folks who don't think about the viability of a general idea first.
I play the card with Debt now and am perfectly happy with it. Of course it is slightly weaker as before you could never reach negative coins at the end of your turn (with a floor being at 0) but still balanced at 4.

Also, your Scientist is an non-perma-duration  straight Action version of my Waterfall.

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