But great, we killed scum day 1 and I'm happy for that, but I really dont think there is much to go on (or at least past me did; I intend to reread to get more specific evidence about which I am talking) because as the wagon developed I really didn't feel that people had any strong cases against him and he was jumped on for being "today's lynch". I also had pointed out earlier that one of the first people that grew the wagon did it because "there were a bunch of people at 2 votes and Grujah felt the scummiest". Thats not really good information to pull from and I dont like it.Then some people jumped at him (cuzz heavily, frisk lightly, maybe others) for not peeing his pants with glee over lynching scum on D1. Well la-di-effin-da. He had a "meh" position on the wagon and felt like he got attacked for that, so he explained why he wasn't celebrating his face off with his post here.
So I wanted to at least compile all of the voting reasons for the Grujah votes.
Glooble Votes Grujah in 479 for "showing up, voting on me, and disappearing."
ehunt Votes Grujah in 1295 without giving a reason.
WAGON START:
1375: (Yuma) "I will change my vote to someone with 2 votes on them to see if we can start getting a consensus, but everyone that has 2 votes I have a town read on except Grujah"
1386: (Galzria) "I agree. He was in one of my top 3, and we really should start looking to consolidate. Since my #1 choice (eHal) seems to be met with equal parts adamant opposition and slight consideration, it really doesn't seem to be a productive choice. So I'll vote where there we might get something going - the fact that it's not on a town-read makes it all the better for me."
1404: (eHal) "I think he has lurked hard, which is really unusual for him. He returns just when it starts to heat up for him, and his posts read scummy. This wagon has a decent chance of lift-off, and I have decent reads on most on the wagon so far (not sure of the vote count though). Chance of lynch success does play a factor here, but Gruj's lurkiness is the major reason. It's not like he has been V/LA -- his post history shows that he has been active in Cosmic Encounter, at least. Why not drop in with some remarks during all of yesterday's drama? Maybe because he is scum and thought it would be safer to let townies argue themselves to a mislynch."
1433: (Eevee) "Grujah's defence doesn't read genuine to me"
1445: (Morgrim) "because he is the most likely person to be lynched"
1479: (ftl) "I didn't realize that about the timing of his posts, that's pretty bad."
1484: (joth) "Galz (argument about post timing) has got me convinced too"
1495: (Axxle) "Yaaaay!" (he really wanted to hammer)
So that is a collection of all the voting reasons for Grujah and it seems really flaky.
I'm sorry for not being ecstatic that we lynched scum day 1 with a wagon like this.
Re: #1590 --
Munch's post was absolutely defending Grujah.Having looked through I have 2 things to say about Grujah. First, he doesn't really come off to me as scummy in the way hes been talking. That being said, there hasn't been much information about grujah from earlier, aka, this is exactly what ehalc feared when we were discussing lynching for information; everyone is jumping on grujah to get a lynch but there will be nothing gained from it, as some seem to have little reason (see: he is the scummiest of the people that have the most votes that I'd be willing to get on). My vote will stay where it is.
The defense is:
1. doesn't come off as scummy
2. lynch gives no info
And in the process of giving that defense, Munch misrepresents my positions. Not to mention:
[3]Re: Axxle's 1531, I don't see how we ever called O a good vig-target. Morgrim was the one.[3] Like a few others (forget names, but I think ehunt and joth plus maybe others?) I agree that glooble was a more likely than an O kill. I'm not sure if whether this was a vig kill or not even changes that. Glooble was lurking even worse that O was, despite O being the at the center of the beginnings of our lurker argument. There were many town reads on O by the end of things, including a slight town read from me. I'm not sure as a vig that would have been a smart play. And as for the mafia kill, it is very likely that it was directed at someone on the grujah wagon, and O wasn't there.
I think more likely is that Glooble was shot, either by a vig or by scum trying to hit other scum. Gloob was a lurker, after all.
...
[4]I don't think there is any evidence of multiple scum teams right now. It looks like there were two shots fired (since O and Gloob are connected), and the second death could be vig or SK, not necessarily another team.
Obviously [jotheonah] was a bit facetious with his comments, but cut him some slack.
Also, I think Glooble was targeted and O was the lover-death. I say this because Glooble was listed before O was. Then again, the three kills were all down alphabetically, so that could be how Robz intended to order it. It may not be much to go on, but it is something.
I bet there's scum on the Grujah wagon, I don't think scum can let half the town be cleared right after day 1. Especially when there's a town this big, we've got to have a whole bunch of them. Still, I would expect that there's more scum off the wagon than on it, so we should start by scumhunting there and then find the bussing mafia later.
Nightkills - mafia would kill someone from the wagon. Of the people who died, eevee and glooble were on the grujah wagon, O was not. I'd guess mafia kill either eevee or glooble; if O was targeted then that was probably a vig kill. So we probably have either two scumteams (well, maybe just mafia+sk) and no vig, or just mafia and vig. With this many potential targets, I would really doubt that we had kill-collision, so I think there's only 2 nightkills going around.
[1]I agree with jo that looking off-wagon is better, and I find the people who immediately jumped on him for that statement to be rather scummy for it. sparky looks a little more townie to me from #1524.[1]Here's a post which I feel like breaking down more. An argument that the case on joth is misguided just sounds really bad to me when it's worded like this. You can cast suspicion on me for my vote if you want, but this sounded initially to me like more of a warning to people who may be considering my argument as valid. A bit like "you better not vote for this unless you're sure, because I promise I'll find you scummy if you do." Before we end up in a 3-page long "mischaracterization" argument, I'm saying that's how it feels to me when I read something like that. No mischaracterization of my feelings at all, promise.
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[2]Some bad vibes from shraeye as well. I remember having some misgivings about him early day 1, though they faded away over time. They're back again though. As sparky points out, shraeye is very much misrepresenting jo. His post #1512 does not at all say "definitely no scum on the wagon". He explicitly notes that "not all are clear". It's weird how he jumps at the possibility of "a whole heap of non-mafia scum" -- scum is scum, town doesn't care whether they are mafia or otherwise, and those on the wagon absolutely have more town cred than those who were not. Finally, shraeye's concern over being a Morgrim-pusher smells fishy, like panicked scum.
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[3]Re: Axxle's 1531, I don't see how we ever called O a good vig-target. Morgrim was the one.
I think more likely is that Glooble was shot, either by a vig or by scum trying to hit other scum. Gloob was a lurker, after all.
...
[4]I don't think there is any evidence of multiple scum teams right now. It looks like there were two shots fired (since O and Gloob are connected), and the second death could be vig or SK, not necessarily another team.
I'm inclined to think there was not a whole lot of bussing in that lynch. Obviously not all 13 Grujah voters are clear, but the smart money is probably to start hunting off-wagon.
If there is you and ftl would be at the top of my list... but that needs to be further analyzed.
I guess weekends aren't for posting anymore...? No seriously, everyone, post stuff.I'm not exactly in favor of flavor claims, but I am in favor of underfunding what we're seeing and what's going on. Idon't want anybody to give anything away that they feel might hurt the town - but if the know anything that can shed light on what this game is about...hahaha, I died laughing while reading this. I'm also in favor of underfunding what's going on, as long as I can pocket the savings.
Well, it's up to the individual I suppose. I've revealed some about what I know in a wary that I hope will be helpful in directing our actions.
You don't feel like the town ashersky I know at all. Way too.. confident? I want to say cocky, but that sounds like I think you are obnoxious which is not true. Just.. feels like you know more than us mortals and can't hide it very well.
Well, it is role madness, so I imagine we all know something, it is just about trying to figure out how we can best help the town and stop the mafia. I haven't figured out how to figure out who the bad guys are yet. Not getting to many strong reads yet, unfortunately, either way.
Well (and I'm nor trying to rolefish), it was really weird, but my role PM contained absolutely 0 Harry Potter flavor (it actually contained no flavor that was specifically related to anything), so before the game officially launched I was seriously wondering if eHal was trolling us all with his pre-game talk of Harry Potter.
The reason I bring it up is that the list of things (rooms cleaned, beans, dementors etc.) Means absolutely nothing to me. I don't know if this I'd true of everybody or just me. In a game where Flavor is so important, I have to wonder how many red herrings will be out there.
I also tend to see ashersky as a shady character instinctively, in ZM2 I was convinced that lynching him D2 would get the win and he turned out to be one of the cops instead. I haven't noticed anything jump out at me yet. I'm planning a bit of a reread this weekend, and I can hopefully get some clearer reads on people.It's been pretty dead in here after Robz's game went to night, which is weird.
Robz, gun to you head, your top townreads and top scumreads?
Top townreads: ftl, Galzria
Top scum reads: Really don't have any, but ashersky is always a shady character to me
Super whoa! That is some impressive vigilance!I fixed your flavor so that the capital letters of the first paragraph spell "Nagini". You were almost there. Had to drop an H and add an I. But at first glance I thought I might've been on to something!
It warms my heart to see players looking at everything through the eyes of a conspiracy theorist.
Constant Vigilance!
1:Maybe I do get how D1 is different from subsequent days, and maybe I don't. Hopefully I'll get a chance to test your theory this game. How do you find day 1 different from subsequent days and, more importantly, what caused you to bring this up now?Yes, #3 refers to your use of three. IPad abbreviating...
Shraeye was active other D1s, I recall. Nothing strikes me as any different this game.
Nah, more along the lines of, I'm seriously wondering if shraeye, in particular, gets how D1 is different from subequent days.QuoteI referred to the post where Cayvie made the joke, and said the three thing was scummy. Watno did mention the self reference as being scummy, not the joke. I agree with Watno that the inclusion of self makes it seem scummier. In fact, I might not have noticed if Cayvie had listed three others. Would have been more jokey.
What? That would be a terrible joke!
"i've found these three scum, and they're Robz, jotheonah, and shraeye!"
that's indistinguishable from a baseless accusation. The fact that I was included in the list is what makes it a joke at all!
@cayvie
...
What do you actually think about the setup regarding # of factions/scum?
@ftl & ash: I'm not necessarily saying we have to no lynch either like if someone looks really scummy lets lynch em but I'm not gonna worry about deadline coming up if we don't have a good lynch I can't see myself jumping on a bad wagon.I like Insom's argument here. I'm prolynch, but in a regular game I may be bending over backwards trying to get one to happen, voting for someone who I have a neutral read on because it's better than nothing. But there's less of a need to jump on a bad wagon here, so approaching the deadline without any realistic candidate becomes less terrifying.
I side with eevee in #359 here. If you aren't withholding any thoughts, are you saying that you haven't had any thoughts yet? Maybe you just think none of them are important enough to post? You have to be getting ideas about who is looking at least slightly town or slightly scummy, even if they're just hunches. But you're doing nothing with those hunches even. I admit that a lot of my thoughts are thin reads that I am trying to get clarified. That is how I operate: ask questions, receive answers, make reads based off of interactions. How do you operate?Robz, I think you are sacrificing town's win % to your personal convenience & survival (and also making being scum easier to hide for yourself). Sure, there is no fixed amount of activity you are required to show on day 1, but purposefully contributing only a little / not at all day 1 is clearly anti-town behavior.
It's not deliberate. I am not withholding my thoughts.
Woah woah woah woah. We are certainly putting the horse before the cart here. Or whatever. The other way around? (I've never assembled a half-horse half-cart monster before).Good, I hope that you do say useful things starting soon. Protip: this wasn't useful
I didn't say I refuse to contribute, or that I will never contribute, or that I don't see value in contributing, or that I deserve to be in the end regardless. I was simply explaining that in the past I have behaved a bit differently in bastard/role madness games. I will say something more useful today, jeez.
Who is the biggest lurker right now? Let's kill that person.We've got 10+ days left, lynching the biggest lurker on day 4 of a 2 week "day 1" isn't good.
