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6301

General Discussion / Re: Baseball playoffs, 2012!!

« on: October 08, 2012, 08:07:41 pm »

Yeah, how did anyone derail me from baseball!! That's a cardinal sin.  Ha, Cardinals.

6302

Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia XV - Why is it so dark in here? - Signups (12/13) - Starts after MXIV

« on: October 08, 2012, 08:02:31 pm »

Sounds complicated.  Can anyone give me an estimated start date?

6303

General Discussion / Re: Baseball playoffs, 2012!!

« on: October 08, 2012, 08:00:41 pm »

Hey man, I don't like my sport being grouped with Casting.  It's pretty serious stuff.  I've dislocated a shoulder, and once shutoff half my quad muscle playing that sport.

6304

General Discussion / Re: Baseball playoffs, 2012!!

« on: October 08, 2012, 07:10:13 pm »

Land hockey is like cricket. Totally unenjoyable. I've heard they have tea breaks in cricket and that's about what I think is good about it.

Land Hockey = Hockey

And I repeat FLOORBALL?!?!

you may as well play Sitting Volleyball, or Ultimate Frisbee, or Tag Rugby!

Hey, Ultimate is a sport.  I don't like that implication, sir.

6305

Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia XI: Find Yourself in the Courtyard Masquerade -- DAY 2

« on: October 08, 2012, 06:21:46 pm »

"you" being cayvie or ehunt, or anybody who isn't on the wagon

6306

Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia XI: Find Yourself in the Courtyard Masquerade -- DAY 2

« on: October 08, 2012, 06:21:06 pm »

If you don't want to hammer, i can unvote, then let you vote.  Then I can hammer.

6307

Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia XI: Find Yourself in the Courtyard Masquerade -- DAY 2

« on: October 08, 2012, 06:13:38 pm »

The when-targets-scum part is super obviously pro-selfishSK.  That's the part that makes me want to lynch you.

6308

Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia XI: Find Yourself in the Courtyard Masquerade -- DAY 2

« on: October 08, 2012, 05:53:38 pm »

yeah.... i fully endorse a TheMunch lynch at this point.

c'mon cayvie, vote Munch.  Didn't you said that it's only bad for you if you lynch town?

Now you're avoiding all wagons while trying to advocate for it.  this is a legit wagon, I know it.  And if you know it too, back that up with a vote.

6309

Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia XI: Find Yourself in the Courtyard Masquerade -- DAY 2

« on: October 08, 2012, 05:44:53 pm »

Shraeye, it's not that nobody wants to lynch the SK, it's that he is so far from "provably" the SK. And when it's that far from being a sure thing, it can be tough to distinguish the SK from town.

Especially because his scummy play makes sense as mafia, but does not really make sense as SK.

That's because everybody keeps listening to eHalcyon's line that he's repeated ad infinitum about Munch defending Grujah.  Munch did not do this; I've said this multiple times.  Yet I still find him scummy.  Read my posts (they were in the pg 70-72 range I think) as to why he's scummy regardless of the Grujah defense/nondefense issue. 

6310

Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia XI: Find Yourself in the Courtyard Masquerade -- DAY 2

« on: October 08, 2012, 05:37:59 pm »

Apparently, unlynchable SKs would not be overpowered, because DSell would have us believe that nobody wants to lynch SK anyway, and that we should leave it for nightactions.  I'm not gonna let Munch be unlynchable at all.  He's patently SK.

Vote: TheMunch

6311

Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia XI: Find Yourself in the Courtyard Masquerade -- DAY 2

« on: October 08, 2012, 05:14:14 pm »

If he's SK mafia will kill him. If he's a PR mafia will probably kill him. That's unavoidable at this point since he's claimed.

He can tell us who he'll target every night to at least give us some info to work from.

I don't think he's a good lynch at this point.

If he targets scum, he doesn't die and gets his NK.  I'm 100% convinced he's a SK, and that would mean that tonight we have one less town-death.  I don't understand why a known SK would ever be a bad lynch.  FoS: DSell.

6312

Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia XI: Find Yourself in the Courtyard Masquerade -- DAY 2

« on: October 08, 2012, 05:03:53 pm »

Holy shit, i figured it out.  Munch is SK.

Here's why.  I'm assuming he's telling the complete truth on his claim.  This is a ridiculous power to give any scum.  Simply target your scummate, and boom, you're not killable.  Ok, that's ridiculously overpowered.

It's also crazy overpowered if you're town.  Simply target anyone and you are either strengthening their town power to make it work better, or gaining NK protection for yourself.  Either way it's awesome for your faction.  This becomes a really uninteresting and powerful power, where every choice helps town regardless.

But give credit to Robz.  He built an exciting game.  This is a complete SK power.  Manage to find scum and you're safe for the evening, huzzah!  So this incentivizes scumhunting.  Accidently target a town power, and you make them even stronger and better able to stop you.  Now he's actually faced with interesting choices and how strong his power is depends on how he uses it.

QED.  Munch is a Serial Killer.

Guys, vote vote vote vote.

Vote: TheMunch

6313

Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia XI: Find Yourself in the Courtyard Masquerade -- DAY 2

« on: October 08, 2012, 04:46:49 pm »

I see I forgot the word "things" after "interesting".

6314

Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia XI: Find Yourself in the Courtyard Masquerade -- DAY 2

« on: October 08, 2012, 04:44:56 pm »

So, an incredibly convoluted claim, cool.  I love backing off of people when they make crazy claims that I can't corroborate.  Oh wait, I don't.  So Munch is looking more scummish as I look at his defense.  There seems to be too much franticness to it, and that really makes it feel like the squirmings of a scum-player.  So here's me compensating for ehunts unvote.  I'm not sure why a simple statement of any sort of power is worthy of an unvote.  Robz promised that this game would be filled with many interesting.  Having a power does not imply towniness.

Vote: TheMunch

6315

Forum Games / Re: V/LA announcements

« on: October 08, 2012, 06:20:21 am »

Another Monday-funday as I try to get plenty of work done.  I don't expect any posting before tomorrow evening.

6316

Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia XI: Find Yourself in the Courtyard Masquerade -- DAY 2

« on: October 07, 2012, 01:26:33 pm »

I'm thinking no cult.

6317

General Discussion / Re: Baseball playoffs, 2012!!

« on: October 06, 2012, 11:43:55 pm »

Ok, 1 run.  We're most definitely coming back, don't worry.

6318

Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia XI: Find Yourself in the Courtyard Masquerade -- DAY 2

« on: October 06, 2012, 05:11:13 pm »

@Galz, this is an impressive case on Munch.

I think "wanted" was autocorrected to "farted". I can't wait to get a smart phone so I can made hilarious errors!

Yup, phone typo.  Thanks for responding.  I still would have liked to hear all of this much sooner.  I think if, when you had voted Shraeye the first time, if you had included this information, maybe we would have been talking about Shraeye's intentions instead of talking about acti-lurking for pages on pages.  As such I still think its very suspicious to have changed your vote around as you did with little to no information.  On top of that I hold you personally responsible for the last 5 pages of junk, whether or not you read them. 

Vote: Glooble

I'll give ehunt a pass for now.  I still dont like how much hes trying to control the game.  I still care about the small slip I called him on before, but that is less suspicious than what I feel about Glooble.

I missed this completely the first time around, that his vote over ehunt's weirdness was later called a slip.  One thing that usually stands out to me is when people change the reasons they were voting for somebody, this always feels suspicious.

In #909, TheMunch votes for eHal, but I feel like he was getting into OMGUS by that point. He and eHal had been going back and forth, and I understand the frustrations that come with trying to say stuff and having to defend every word you've said. eHal tunneled me in M-VI (that scum!) and it was really quite frustrating. One thing that really taught me was to take the blinders off (even though he really WAS scum!) - so when I see things like this from new players I have a tendency to dismiss it for what it usually is. A hairpulling frustration vote.

The odd thing is... that he turns around and does the exact same thing to Watno in #1002. It's like Insomniac 2.0! Vote for or disagree with TheMunch and be prepared to be voted for! Really though, I can't consider either of those votes as scummy or not as I know nothing about either of the two people he voted for. But ragevoting is dangerous as town at best, terrible for town at worst, and easily manipulatable as scum.

What DOES stand out about the above two exchanges is that TheMunch sounds like he thinks eHal was town tunneling, whereas Watno was scum tunneling. Here's post #1005:

On this Watno thing... I'm confused about it.  I was grilling Munchy pretty hard, but Watno seems way more aggressive.  I don't know, I can't really be objective about myself.

Yeah I would say that is the difference between you and him in the last few posts and the reason why I voted for watno.  You were grilling me and had reasons to be doing so and hence why I was trying really hard to be clear with you.  But watno just seemed like he wanted to catch me make a slip so he could pull the trigger.  I dont like that.

It's almost like he forgot he ever voted on eHal over the exact same reasons. I don't know. It just really struck me as strange. If eHal was valid in his grilling while Watno was scummy, what was the vote on eHal all about?

I also pushed the OMGUS he was feeling for eHalc and watno out of my mind initially as a normal reaction by a new player.  But he's really really been consistent in defending hardcore even a modicum of suspicion against him.  It's really starting to feel like sparky's "I just don't want to die because of some silly mistake." from MIX.  This is contributing more and more to my suspicions of Munch.

Post #1402:

I dont want to move my vote for no reason, but I would like to see a lynch happen, if only for personal reasons (I cant be the ONLY person here excited about RTR this weekend and doesn't want to be worried about the lynch votes going through in the final second).  I'm going to go back and reread some stuff from Grujah as I didn't necessarily have a read on him; although, I do side with Yuma and Shraeye, if the last few IRL days weren't any evidence, there is no way anyone is getting lynched with our very scattered opinions.

"I don't want to move my vote for no reason" - This alone strikes me as odd considering the number of times that his vote moved throughout D1. He claims that he's willing to move his vote however if it's needed to avoid no-lynch and the he'll go back and "reread" Grujah, who he hasn't had a read on up until this point (even though Grujah was on that early wagon against Shraeye that TheMunch railed against, calling everybody who was on it as being scummy).

This too stands out to me.  Munch has certainly moved his vote around very loosely, but when it came down to trying to lynch someone, Munch suddenly became concerned with being on the actual lynching wagon and chose this time to not want to move his vote around for no reason.  I really still disagree with people's reads that he was defending Grujah.  When I say "this guy doesn't read as scummy" that's exactly what I mean, I'm commenting not at all on his towniness.  So I don't see this in contradiction to his post about "Grujah is a null read."  Regardless, this hesitation to put himself in a voting position where people may look at him is what is adding to my growing read that Munch is a new player on some opposing scumteam.  He is very very worried about how much suspicion he collects.

Yuma's vote #3 on the Grujah came in post #1374 (September 25th, at 11:40 am).
In post #1402 (September 25th, at 4:09 pm), he says he's going to go back and reread Grujah, and in post #1442 (September 25th, 7:59 pm), he says he's done so and seen nothing scummy.
Sure, I didn't lay out the case that Grujah only came back to defend himself until post #1476 (September 26th, 2:10 am) - but TheMunch had JUST REREAD Grujah - yet didn't see this himself?
The Thread Locked, btw, in post #1505 (September 26th, at 9:40 am).

My point is, it's not like there wasn't time, as claimed. The entire wagon took 24 hours to form and lynch, and TheMunch WAS active during that time, and supposedly DID reread Grujah.

Here again, I'm skeptical of people's assumption that Munch is defending Grujah.  Maybe he reread and didn't find anything, maybe he reread but not in time for the pretty quick lynch that happened, and maybe he never even reread.  Regardless, I don't fault anyone for not noticing Grujah's habit of coming back within 2-3 posts of votes on him to defend.  That would have easily slipped by me because it's very subtle and timestamps are out of the realm of things I normally look at in rereads; you have some serious scumhunting kungfu, Galz.

In my mind it just keeps coming back to "I don't want to lose for a small mistake or misdirected suspicion when I'm trying really hard not to make any of this."

I'm still much hotter on YoungNick's case due to my recent analysis and almost sure feeling that he's Grujah's partner, but I am becoming convinced that Munch is scum from some opposing faction.  I'm not sure where he ranks against ashersky in my mind in terms of scumminess; that's a hard ranking for me to do right now because Munch is moving quick from town to scum, and asher is moving from serious scum to slight scum.

PPE: I was considering to do that as I was reading Galz's stuff, and saw your post while I was doing this.

6319

Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia XI: Find Yourself in the Courtyard Masquerade -- DAY 2

« on: October 06, 2012, 03:24:22 pm »

Unvote my massively outdated vote on O.

Sorry to not be posting as much, blitz 2 and packing up my entire house has kept me busy.

On topic, I agree with whomever said policy lynches (including lurker) don't provide as much info as convo-driven ones.  I would prefer it to no lynch, I think, except in a town this size, and with possible multiple NKs, there will probably be plenty to analyze just on night actions.

I haven't been able to read closely, so I don't have much in the way of reads on players, but Frisk seems a bit harsher than his usual self.

I found a piece from ashersky about no-lynch that happened before grujah was in hot water.  This makes me less suspicious of his no-lynch mention during crunch time.  But this is a convoluted sentence here.  "policy lynches aren't as good as regular ones, but I still prefer them to no-lynches"  but he does add "except in a town this size, we may have plenty enough to analyze just by night actions."  If there wasn't the "except" in there, this post would remove quite a lot of suspicion.  As it stands, though, only a bit of suspicion is removed.

If we do indeed decide to do this, here's my three votes. Probably gone this weekend, but I might have time to poke in. I don't have strong scum reads on anyone at the moment. This was tricky.

Primary Vote: ashersky (for lurking in plain sight while calling on others not to lurk, and for being on the terrible shraeye wagon)
Secondary Vote: jotheonah (He's squirmed a lot with only 1 vote on him, tried to drive ehunt wagon, thinks lynching lurkers is a bad idea...some of it seems like a difference in playstyles, some of it feels like a scum vibe)
Third Vote: Watno (I haven't gotten substance from him, his tunneling of Munch was bizarre, plus "gut feel" from earlier)

No vote on Frisk anymore as he's changed his behavior for the better. Doesn't make him town, but it takes him from scum to neutral in my eyes.

PPE: Ugh. Don't make me change my mind.

I will mention that my in plain sight lurking has been predicated on me moving my entire family/household overseas at the moment.  In a hotel now, even.  At least I'm still contributing content when I can, unlike some others who are here.  You even mention some.

You know me fairly well as compared to others I think.  Other than posting less, do I seem different?

I love it.  It's the classic "I wonder what other people think of me?"  I recall sparky in MIX (Major Arcana mafia) doing this a bit pre-scumslip.  Just saying things like, "I guess people naturally trust me." or "it's funny that i haven't caught suspicion yet"  "what do you think of me, *InsertNameHere*?"

Vote: Insom

Agree I haven't been memorable to date, but I have been following as well as I can.  I haven't had much too comment, but I am good with a soft deadline/plurality vote if we don't let it get manipulated into lynching with a weak minority of votes.

On Insom, the way he's been pushing on both eHs seems kind of scummy to me; neither eHs strike me as particularly scummy, but more just easy targets.  Insom on the other hand has had no pressure on him at all, for some reason.

Secondary and tertiary votes go to Glooble/Grujah, for oft-quoted reasons.

I get town reads from Shraeye, Yuma, and axxle.  The Shraeye wagon seems scummy, and am looking at ftl there.

Puts glooble/grujah at second votes, a classy place to put a potential scumpartner.  Not voting for him, but "oh look, I did suspect him; half credit!"

Here's the most damning post that ashersky made:

Can I ask a question of the group?

Is it possible that, in a game this size, with the unknown plethora of roles, that a no lynch may in fact be helpful?

Here's my thinking: we've all complained to some degree about the size of this thing, right?  Lynching only reduces the size by one, and the lynch will offer limited information.  On the flip side, it's possible the night will result in way more information to discuss, and could cull the herd by more than one.

I don't mean to sound like I don't want to lynch someone, or even that there aren't reasonable targets.  It's more that I'm wondering and would like to hear from others on the idea of taking this game into the night phase sooner rather than later, via a majority no lynch vote, since we can't seem to come to agreement on a lynch.

If the lynch for the sake of info argument can be made, I think a no lynch for the sake of night info can be made as well.

One factor that people may have missed that make it suspicious, is that it came immediately after YoungNick's call to lynch a different lurker than Grujah.  At this point grujah had 8 votes on him. (I miscounted in the analysis on YoungNick's post)  Two soft defenses of Grujah in a row.  Nothing that either person couldn't deny the next day, but together maybe just enough to stall out this wagon.  Sorry dudes, didn't work.

For the record, I think we should get a lynch today.  I was just tossing out an alternate idea, basically given the size of this town, the length of this day, etc.  I don't think a lynch affects what happens at night, but do think analyzing night stuff will probably add a lot more content than analyzing a policy/plurality lynch.

Before going to bed on the night before grujah-lynch, asher makes sure to get in the fact that he does support a lynch on D1.  Still doesn't vote grujah though.

Ashersky with his no lynch idea.

It wasn't like I was pushing the idea.  Just thinking it through with the group.  Clearly the lynch was preferred by me (and all).

Why does the assumption that Glooble was the kill target out of the so lovers seem to be favored?  Does no one think anyone would want to kill O?  I think a look back at O associations would be useful.

Let me clear this up.  asherky supported a lynch.  He did not support the Grujah-lynch.  I agree that he wasn't pushing the idea hard, but he did bring it up twice, and make some arguments for it.  So it reads as suspicious when he refuses to own that.

All asher has contributed today is to guess that there were two NKs, not knowing what to make of Coppersmith, defending self, and voting for joth when he quickly and strongly suggested that we should look off-wagon first. 

Overall, I'm getting a medium scumread here.  Less suspicious than YoungNick, but still pretty suspicious.

6320

Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia XI: Find Yourself in the Courtyard Masquerade -- DAY 2

« on: October 06, 2012, 03:23:49 pm »

Also, quick edit to my analysis on YoungNick.  Right after the first READ THIS that I put in, I said he defended grujah when the wagon was at 6;  I took another look at it while rereading asher, and I think that number was actually 8.

6321

Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia XI: Find Yourself in the Courtyard Masquerade -- DAY 2

« on: October 06, 2012, 02:46:27 pm »

Starting reread on ashersky.  Interesting fact, ashersky has posted even less than YoungNick.

6322

Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia XI: Find Yourself in the Courtyard Masquerade -- DAY 2

« on: October 06, 2012, 02:44:58 pm »

Reread on YoungNick.  He shows up late, and posts many many posts about not being able to catch up yet.  His 7th post is the first to even have a glimmer of content.

Daily check-in here. Still haven't started.

I am seriously considering just going from page 30 or so to save myself the RVS BS. Can someone point me towards the post from eevee about the Cultist thang?

Ok, so he's curious about cultists, that's an improvement from the nothing posts we'd been getting.

3 days in, hasn't reread at all.  He finally give his first read: he wants to lynch eevee (known town) for simply knowing about a recruiting faction.

I am curious about yuma's suggestion to lynch Axxle. It makes sense until you realize how different the dynamic is when there are (almost certainly) multiple scum teams. This would probably make it slightly less valuable. Still, I am not opposed to it. I haven't reread at all, but it seems like there is very little that we know and very few non-RVS reads. That or lynch Eevee for knowing about a Cult.

Still, in the very next post he votes Axxle.  Joth responds the best to this, immediately posting "Young Nick, those are pretty terrible suggestions. And a LOT has happened already."

Well, I am certainly not "blaming" other people for giving me their summaries. I just assumed that the information was relatively accurate, and that if it weren't, that someone would make a correction. Please don't think I am ungrateful for the summaries. It just sounds like there has been little of substance so far!

And a non-RVS read is one that is based off of legitimate discussion, which seems to have started after page 25ish or so. I guess I just don't value RVS, it's only purpose is to launch us into productive discussion which it has. And that's where worthwhile reads come from.

wait, didn't he just say that there wasn't any non-RVS info yet?  Maybe YoungNick's finally rereading.  Except, I guess not because in one of his future posts (what I consider the first real-substance post) he starts by saying he doesn't have time to read the 40 pages of D1:

Hi just checking in. I'm going to address a few thoughts up to that point real quick.

• First and foremost, I am definitely not going to have time to read the first 40 pages of this game. I will use the shraeye index, but that is obviously not as good as reading.

• Second off, I see that some people have called me out for lurking. Some think I am complaining about a lack of a summary (though I have one now, so hurray) and about how little time I have. I don't have much time. That's the reality of it. I signed up for a newbie-friendly game. I don't think a game that posts 7 pages in one day is newbie-friendly. See it as scummy if you will, but that's life.

It's not like I'm a soon-to-be father, but I am starting college. While in high school and during summer, my schedule is completely different. I have to go make new friends now. That takes time and effort. Time and effort that has to come from somewhere, aka Mafia.

I'm still staying in, though. I am doing my check-ins, trying to get caught up and getting into a routine where I can spend time on Mafia everyday. That schedule isn't set yet, but will hopefully be soon.

• Lastly, I do have a few reads. Mainly, I do think eHalc's "directing the cop" was a bit weird, even if he prefaced it. I understand that he supports investigating Morgrim in all games, but man, I would rather have my PR's keep their options more open. I do think he has said some fishy stuff, all of which he has been called out on. I do find that most reads I get are expressed by someone else hours before I even am at a computer. Like this whole vote-for-information type thing. It clearly is hedging. Hopefully today I can get caught up, and thus post up-to-date reads.

So YoungNick's finally getting reads, and all he has for us is "eHalc directing cop to investigate Morgrim is weird", "info-lynch looks like hedging", and "other people beat me to posting my reads, so I won't verify anything else at this point".

READ THIS
Now comes some suspicious stuff.  The Grujah wagon has hit 6 players and YoungNick posts this.

yuma, how can you go on Grujah like that when there are so many people who are not adding too much to the game. Unless you think this is just unusual for Grujah. If you're supporting a lynch-all-lurkers meta, please, go for someone else like me, Glooble, or ibgtennis.

Hopefully significant analysis coming tonight. I know, I know.

"Gosh, please don't lynch Grujah, you could even lynch me, I'd be ok with that.  Just not Grujah."  Also, YoungNick promises significant analysis.

READ THIS
Next post is in day2, no analysis came, his really stupid vote stayed safely on Axxle instead of switching to Grujah.  He say's votes on Joth were silly.  I agree, despite being one of those voters.  Then he asks us to back off of ashersky for bringing up No-lynch.

I understand where you guys are coming from, and it does look like he has been hedging, but when I read his NL push, I viewed it more as asking an open-ended question than pushing for NL.

We all flirt with the idea in our Mafia-infancy, so I don't see why he should be judged more harshly for this than anyone else is. I mean, in a 20+ game, most conventional wisdom has to be at least modified, and the always-lynch-d1 logic is no exception.

If anything, I think Watno's second-on-the-wagon is more suspicious than anything else. Not that ashersky did much to defend himself at the top of p. 62..

READ THIS
Post explaining/defending position on not voting Grujah

Why go for one of the others over Grujah?  Serious question.

Sorry I missed this. What I was saying is that this seemed like too easy of an excuse to jump on the wagon. I was not aware of the posting patterns of Grujah (post after someone votes him) at the time. To me, it looked like you were just hedging and voting him because he was a lurker. Why any of the others? Because Grujah had provided some content over the course of the day. ibgtennis had not. I had provided minimal.

I can understand Grujah over Glooble (they were contributing equal amounts in my mind; it makes sense that you can see their butting heads as one being scum and the other not), but I still think it would have made more sense to lynch me or ibgtennis or O. 
tl;dr: If you are going to lynch a lurker, then lynch one of the true lurkers. ibgtennis is the only one I see who is still posting way, way too infrequently.

Hey, YoungNick, remember when you posted this "I, despite my play-style, am for a Lynch-All-Lurkers meta. I am not saying that is where one always will find scum (though sometimes we do), but rather just a way to make the scum-lurk no longer feasible. "  In the above quote you said that "jumping on Grujah for lurking is too easy of an excuse for jumping on the wagon".  Imma give you a hint, when trying to Lynch-all-Lurkers, somebody will have to jump on the wagon, easy or not.  So why should people have not jumped on the Grujah wagon over lurking?  Because there were also other lurkers?  That's a terrible reason.  A better reason would be because he's your team's PR, but you can't go saying that outloud obviously.

two posts which are confusing when we realize they were posted 7 hours apart:

I disagree with those who say Munch doesn't look bad. Dude has been hedging like crazy, which is a newb-tell and a scum-tell. I understand we have other things to look at, but hedging deserves proper investigation.

Personally, I am with most of the others here. The re-read terrifies me and it's not like I am drowning in free time anyway. I express my opinions but still struggle to get consistent reads in a game this big.  I have said where I stand and until that changes or I have better reason, I feel I have little to contribute.

My feelings towards Munch are barely enough to warrant a vote. I still would like to hear more from ashersky. It's that simple.

Funny, last time I disagreed with people who said somebody looked not bad, then said that that bad-looker has been hedging like crazy, I thought that was plenty enough to warrent a vote.  So Munch, scummy or not scummy, vote or not?

On reread, I do not like.  I do not like at all.  And this is what I do when I think someone looks this bad.
vote: YoungNick

6323

Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia XI: Find Yourself in the Courtyard Masquerade -- DAY 2

« on: October 06, 2012, 02:04:36 pm »

Sorry, we're buddy-buddy because we agree with eachother?  I know i've defended him because I don't get the same scumread that everybody else has gotten.  I certainly think that the overwhelming page-after-page suspicion of Munch is detracting from my ability to go about scumhunting, as many non-Munch cases by me and others tend to get buried.  My insistance that he's town is fading.  I'm more neutral on him right now than I was day 1.  But I'm really trying to focus on finding grujah's scumpartners, and I'm still 95% sure Munch isn't grujah's partner.  He could be opposing scum or SK, but not Mafia.  That's my current read on him.

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Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia XI: Find Yourself in the Courtyard Masquerade -- DAY 2

« on: October 06, 2012, 01:36:19 pm »

I just did a reread of Young Nick for funsies.  I went with the argument that its easier to do a reread of someone who hasn't posted that often.  I can say this is pretty true and I got a pretty strong scum read on him.  He has posted very few things of content (lots of complaining that there is too much to read) but the posts that did have content were very interesting.  Namely post 1440 and his response in 1602.

yuma, how can you go on Grujah like that when there are so many people who are not adding too much to the game. Unless you think this is just unusual for Grujah. If you're supporting a lynch-all-lurkers meta, please, go for someone else like me, Glooble, or ibgtennis.

Hopefully significant analysis coming tonight. I know, I know.

Why go for one of the others over Grujah?  Serious question.

Sorry I missed this. What I was saying is that this seemed like too easy of an excuse to jump on the wagon. I was not aware of the posting patterns of Grujah (post after someone votes him) at the time. To me, it looked like you were just hedging and voting him because he was a lurker. Why any of the others? Because Grujah had provided some content over the course of the day. ibgtennis had not. I had provided minimal.

I can understand Grujah over Glooble (they were contributing equal amounts in my mind; it makes sense that you can see their butting heads as one being scum and the other not), but I still think it would have made more sense to lynch me or ibgtennis or O.

tl;dr: If you are going to lynch a lurker, then lynch one of the true lurkers. ibgtennis is the only one I see who is still posting way, way too infrequently.

Ex post facto it is interesting to see that one of his proposed lurker lynch targets was Glooble.  Yet in his defense to eHal he said he could understand voting Grujah over Glooble (contradiction) and then giving a list of lynches that he thinks make more sense (also including on that list a new individual, O who interestingly would have still gotten Glooble killed).  The fact that his contradiction regards someone who is known to flip town makes me rather suspicious.

This is a decent case.  Add it to the fact that he was one of the people who was commenting on the badness of a grujah lynch yesterday, and YoungNick is definitely worth a reread.

I really think this below is THE MAIN issue we should be thinking about right now; Grujah was a Mafia PR, and that by looking at people who voiced their dissent over this lynch, we are sure to find at least one scum among them.  These people could be off-wagon, maybe they were a late joiner when the wagon seemed inevitable.  But most certainly they would have said something softly right as the wagon was building up to try to redirect suspicion.  That seems like the most likely time for scumpartners to say something to try to defend Grujah, as yelling loudly when the lynch is close to certain is probably not going to change the outcome and will only serve to increase suspicion on them day 2.

I just realized that scum would probably be trying to actively stop a wagon on their PR.

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Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia XI: Find Yourself in the Courtyard Masquerade -- DAY 2

« on: October 06, 2012, 01:28:35 pm »

Unvote

I just realized that scum would probably be trying to actively stop a wagon on their PR.

This is a good point.  I can off the top of my head remember that Dsell and YoungNick both were trying to actively stop the Grujah wagon (to varying degrees and at different times I feel).  Who else at some point tried to discourage the wagon?

Ashersky with his no lynch idea.

It wasn't like I was pushing the idea.  Just thinking it through with the group.  Clearly the lynch was preferred by me (and all).

But bringing it up at all is a bit more suspicious than not mentioning it at all.  Even if you don't push it, to remind people of that extra option and encouraging people to think about whether it's good or not is a way to subtly tell people it's good.  As I read your original post (embedded below) it really looks like you were giving the pros to a no-lynch idea, while saying "I don't mean to sound like I don't want to lynch someone".

You responded to my question day 1 saying that you still thought we should get a lynch but that you were "tossing out an alternate idea".  Yes you tossed out that idea, and then proceeded to make some arguments for that idea.  Sounds like an implicit endorsement to me.  I'm suspicious, sir.

Can I ask a question of the group?

Is it possible that, in a game this size, with the unknown plethora of roles, that a no lynch may in fact be helpful?

Here's my thinking: we've all complained to some degree about the size of this thing, right?  Lynching only reduces the size by one, and the lynch will offer limited information.  On the flip side, it's possible the night will result in way more information to discuss, and could cull the herd by more than one.

I don't mean to sound like I don't want to lynch someone, or even that there aren't reasonable targets.  It's more that I'm wondering and would like to hear from others on the idea of taking this game into the night phase sooner rather than later, via a majority no lynch vote, since we can't seem to come to agreement on a lynch.

If the lynch for the sake of info argument can be made, I think a no lynch for the sake of night info can be made as well.

Are you saying "we're going to get a lot more information from nightkills, so let's not lynch" I know you're not actively suggesting it, but that sounds like a terrible argument to even consider.  It just sounds like you think lynching someone will somehow stop NK information.  I'd prefer both, please.

For the record, I think we should get a lynch today.  I was just tossing out an alternate idea, basically given the size of this town, the length of this day, etc.  I don't think a lynch affects what happens at night, but do think analyzing night stuff will probably add a lot more content than analyzing a policy/plurality lynch.