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426
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Holy Order
« on: December 18, 2015, 07:24:09 pm »
If you're going to make a card that works with Hexes, you should make more Kingdom Hexes than just Sinner.

427
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Holy Order
« on: December 18, 2015, 03:39:56 pm »
The best it can possibly be is +3 cards on your next turn. Looks at Haunted Woods. That gives you the same thing plus it attacks your opponents. And this will rarely actually be +3 cards, normally it will be +2 cards, or worse. Wharf gives you that plus a buy, and 2 cards and a buy when you play it.
Also good points, referring to version 1.0, but mostly accurate for the update as well. I knew I over-nerfed it, and it'll need something useful in the turn you play it: thinking either a draw-up-to-6 (thematic with the Duration effect) or a handsize attack on opponents (ensuring there's always a handsize attack in kingdoms with this, and making the Duration effect more valuable).

The handsize attack option antisynergizes with the duration effect though, because it makes it harder for your opponents to buy higher-cost cards, which means less cards drawn for you.

428
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Enterprise (Beta)
« on: December 18, 2015, 01:47:08 pm »
Firstly, i think the claim that the line alone makes the difference is a "Cum ergo propter" fallacy. The line is always accompanied by a specific wording, usually beginning with "when". Saying that one of both, the line or the wording, on its own "causes" the effect to be set-up different than by play, neglects the fact that Dominion is a game, and information might be intentionally presented in a redundant way to ease understanding.

That said, second: Wishing Ring could use Scheme's wording, to set up its effect for the start of cleanup: "At the start of cleanup this turn, you may choose a card you have in play. If you discard it from play this turn, trash it and gain a card costing $1 more."
(Note how this above-line wording decidedly avoids the word "when", using "at" and "if" instead)

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13966.msg528081#msg528081

While we're on the subject of that logical fallacy (somebody agreeing with you is not proof or even evidence), here's a quote two posts later, which says the opposite: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13966.msg528109#msg528109

I could link my response to that post one post later, which has well-grounded arguments that show why your linked post is wrong, but I think everyone can just read the entire thread without us linking it here post by post.

EDIT: Okay, after reading some of Donald's posts in that thread, I agree with you.


429
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Enterprise (Beta)
« on: December 18, 2015, 01:40:41 pm »
Firstly, i think the claim that the line alone makes the difference is a "Cum ergo propter" fallacy. The line is always accompanied by a specific wording, usually beginning with "when". Saying that one of both, the line or the wording, on its own "causes" the effect to be set-up different than by play, neglects the fact that Dominion is a game, and information might be intentionally presented in a redundant way to ease understanding.

That said, second: Wishing Ring could use Scheme's wording, to set up its effect for the start of cleanup: "At the start of cleanup this turn, you may choose a card you have in play. If you discard it from play this turn, trash it and gain a card costing $1 more."
(Note how this above-line wording decidedly avoids the word "when", using "at" and "if" instead)

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13966.msg528081#msg528081

While we're on the subject of that logical fallacy (somebody agreeing with you is not proof or even evidence), here's a quote two posts later, which says the opposite: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13966.msg528109#msg528109

The only way I'll agree with you is if Donald X Vaccarino himself confirms what you've been saying.

430
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Holy Order
« on: December 18, 2015, 10:56:11 am »
I just thought of a simple reason that Holy Order cannot gain Silvers at all when you gain one, let alone on top of your deck: If it gained silvers on-gain, it would be a strictly better buy than Silver at $4, which is a Dominion no-no. Now, it could cost $5 and keep the topdecking silver, but it probably is too weak for $5. Although it may be balanced at $5.

431
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Enterprise (Beta)
« on: December 18, 2015, 10:53:19 am »
I don't think I understand Redistrict. Could someone explain?

Is this the correct way to handle it?

Let's say my hand is Copper, Copper, Copper, Estate,  Redistrict

I play Redistrict and trash my Estate to gain a Silver. Then, I can trash Redistrict to gain a four cost?

BTW: Fantastic Fan Expansion LastFootnote

Correct.

432
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dual Traveller Progression: Navy/Army
« on: December 18, 2015, 10:15:33 am »
Nerfed General; It now only gives 1 ruins and 1 copper and doesn't topdeck either of them.

433
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Enterprise (Beta)
« on: December 17, 2015, 08:15:14 pm »
1) Counterfeit can't double that.

It can if that text is not under a dividing line.

It would be under a dividing line, though, because "this" can only be discarded from play once, just like how it could only be in play once.

434
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Enterprise (Beta)
« on: December 17, 2015, 07:03:32 pm »
Couldn't Wishing Ring just do its effect when it itself is discarded from play? Like:

"When you discard this from play, you may trash it or a card you have in play. Gain a card costing $1 more than the trashed card."

1) Counterfeit can't double that.

2) This recreates the whole duration-tracking problem.

435
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dual Traveller Progression: Navy/Army
« on: December 17, 2015, 05:42:34 pm »
Sadly I think these cards would be frustrating to play with. The upgrading conditions are narrow and the rewards for success are enormous. What kind of deck do you expect me to build before I can get an Ensign? One that has exactly 1 Grunt, 3 (at minimum) terminals and a load of sifters to somehow get them all in play on the same turn. That's a lot of setup, and it's much worse in kingdoms without strong sifting or trashing. If both players go for it there will be a lot of luck involved in deciding who upgrades first. Contrast with the official Travelers, which have a simple but deep success condition - cycle your deck as fast as possible.

Also, they are just really complicated. Man. One kingdom card leads to reading an essay. I think you can get most of what you're going for here with way less stuff.

On a positive note, some of the ideas here are cool. I like the idea of General/Admiral buffing up your grunts. Grunt+Grunt=Lieutenant is actually solid, and "buy lots of Grunts" immediately shows synergy with the final stage of buffed Grunts. General's uber-junking is neat too, although I think Estate=Confusion is superfluous. I would try just Copper/Curse on top, Copper/Curse in discard pile, and find the right power level there with just two (which is a lot!) junk cards.

I'm glad you like the Army path, and as for General, I meant to change Estates to Ruins, but I guess I forgot. Do you think I should just dump the Navy path, or change the requirements? And if the latter, what requirements do you suggest?

436
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Co0kieL0rd's other cards
« on: December 17, 2015, 08:26:41 am »
As far as "resolving" goes, Royal Carriage counts duration cards as "resolved" once their next-turn effect is set up, so i'd argue that the wording on Regal Decree to "stop resolving them" has no effect on durations (they are allready "resolved").

Well, I think resolving them includes their next turn effect and anything that was initiated by playing the card. Or did Donald say otherwise?

The instruction manual says otherwise. Otherwise, you wouldn't be able to use Royal Carriages on Durations until the final turn in which they do stuff.

437
Hey, GendoIkari, did you intend for the poll to close during the same day it opened?

Oh, apparently when I changed the option wording it also updated it so that people can view results after voting instead of only after poll closes. Oops. But it's still open til Saturday.

Being able to see the results confused me into misreading it as 16th.

438
Hey, GendoIkari, did you intend for the poll to close during the same day it opened?

439
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dual Traveller Progression: Navy/Army
« on: December 16, 2015, 02:51:03 pm »
You can never get the Navy progression without other Duration cards... that seems like a waste.

Ensign seems a tad boring and weak, it's a glorified Fishing Village. Also, both Grunt and Ensign serve as non-drawing Villages, I think the cards in a Traveller line should serve different functions. The exchange condition seems very narrow.

Admiral has an interesting way of setting up a triple-duration. It does not seem very strong. I mean decent, but it takes a while to get there. Again I would like it for the cards itself did more interesting stuff than just draw. Admiral already provides draw through the tokens.

How does admiral seem weak? It's a lab now, a double-lab+village next turn, and on the turn you call it, it's a lab+village.

Anyway, the tokens. I think it is cleaner if you just have Admiral say "put your +1 card token on Grunt", and then have General use another token (+1$?).

I could do that, but then it doesn't stack with the +1 Card token, which I intended for it to do.

Lieutenant: A simple Smithy+ that works well with BM. IF course you need to get 2 Grunts for it, so chances are that you won't be playing BM when you get this. Why does it have Reserve type?

Because I made a typo.

General I don't understand.. are your supposed to give opponents two Coppers and Estates per play? Probably not. I don't see why the whole Estate-reducing stuff is necessary, just give out Ruins. And anyway if this has a setup rule, it should be on Grunt. Main effect is a bit stronger than Count late-game.

Overall, I feel like the cards could be a bit less vanilla-y. Most of them just don't seem too interesting. From power-level, the whole thing is probably okay, though might be on the weaker side. The Navy line needs fixed exchange conditions.

General's attack is basically this: Say I'm the one being attacked. I gain a Copper and a Ruins/Estate. Then, I choose one: I either put the Copper on top of my deck and gain a 2nd ruins; or I put the Ruins/Estate on top of my deck and gain a 2nd Copper.

I guess I should change the Navy line's exchange conditions. What do you think I should do? Nevermind, I thought of some.

440
Variants and Fan Cards / Dual Traveller Progression: Navy/Army
« on: December 16, 2015, 01:57:14 pm »
Since creating new traveller progressions seems to be all the rage now, here's my own attempt at it (and it does branch off, like several other fan progressions):

Base Card:

Grunt:
+3 Actions
If you have your Admiral token, +1 Card.
If you have your General token, +1 Card.

When you discard this from play, if you have no remaining Actions (Actions, not Action cards), you may exchange this for an Ensign. If this isn't the only Grunt you have in play, you may exchange it for a Lieutenant.
Cost: $3
Action - Looter - Traveller

FAQ: You discard cards from play one at a time, so if you have two Grunts in play when cleanup starts, you can only exchange one into a Lieutenant, because when you discard the 2nd one from play, its the only Grunt you have in play.



Navy Progression: Theme: Durations

Ensign:
Now and at the start of your next turn:
+2 Actions
+1 Buy
+$1
Each other player takes his -$1 token.

When you discard this from play, if you didn't buy any cards costing $5 or less this turn, you may exchange this for an Admiral. (This is not in the Supply)
Cost: $5*
Action - Attack - Duration - Traveller

Admiral:
Take your Admiral token.
Now and at the start of your next turn:
+2 Cards
+1 Action

When you discard this from play, put it on your Tavern mat. At the start of your turn, you may put this into your discard pile for +1 Card and +1 Action. (This is not in the Supply)
Cost: $8*
Action - Duration - Reserve



Army Progression: Theme: Choices

Lieutenant:
Reveal the top 3 cards of your deck. Put any number of them into your hand and discard the rest. +$1 per card discarded this way.

When you discard this from play, put any number of Grunts you have in play on top of your deck. If you put at least two on top this way, you may exchange this for a General. (This is not in the Supply)
Cost: $5*
Action - Traveller

FAQ: You cannot exchange a Grunt for another Traveller after putting it on top of your deck, as you never discarded it from play.

General:
Take your General token.
Choose one: Gain a Duchy; or gain a Gold. Either way, put it into your hand.
Each other player gains a Ruins and a Copper.
Cost: $8*
Action - Attack

FAQ: Generals are always used when Grunts are, so Estates are worth 0VP whenever Grunts are in the Supply.

441
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Co0kieL0rd's other cards
« on: December 16, 2015, 01:35:11 pm »
Why not just give Regal Decree Band-of-Misfits–like wording?

I can't believe I didn't think of that, especially when I even made a card before that was a Throne Room/BoM variant like Regal Decree is. So, here's a newly suggested wording, Co0kieL0rd:

Regal Decree:
The player to your left reveals cards from the top of his deck until he reveals an Action, and discards the revealed cards. Choose one: Play this three times as if it were that Action; or +1 Action. If you chose the former, this is that card until it leaves play.
Cost: $4
Action

442
I think it would be interesting if it did something different based on whether it was you gaining it or an opponent. So, I voted for any player.

443
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Traveller line: nuns and heretics
« on: December 16, 2015, 12:37:24 pm »
Arch-Heretic
Still working on this. I'd like to keep the Curse = 1VP, but the wording is entirely too long and doesn't leave me much space on top to do what I want. Another idea I'm toying with for it is:
+$3
Put this on your Tavern mat. Each other player reveals a Confession from their hand. If not, they gain an Excommunication (essentially an untrashable Curse). | While this is on your Tavern mat, when another player trashes a Curse or Hex, they put it in their discard instead. [Or alternately, ...Curses and Hexes cannot be trashed.] | When you buy a Victory card, discard this from your Tavern mat.
But as it stands, there's too much text. I need a simpler way to accomplish this. Or part of it.

How about this:

Arch-Heretic:
+$3
Put this on your Tavern mat. Each other player may reveal a Confession from his hand. If he doesn't, he gains an Excommunication.

While this is on your Tavern mat, when a Curse or Hex card is trashed, put it into its owner's discard pile. When you buy a Victory card, discard this. (This is not in the Supply)
Cost: $8*
Action - Attack - Reserve

Excommunication:
-1{}

When you trash this, put it into your discard pile.
Cost: $0
Hex

Also, as Faust said, Novice is strictly stronger than any Actions you have in your whole deck, so I would go with option #2.

444
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Co0kieL0rd's other cards
« on: December 16, 2015, 12:33:03 pm »
Here are two ideas for some nice non-attack player interaction. I haven't tested these at all but I think they should be fun :)



Dry Dock is a cheap Wharf that comes with the drawback of giving other players more actions so they can play more Dry Docks (or other terminals) themselves.



Regal Decree is like a friendly Possession; it lets you utilize another player's deck without allowing you to mess with it (at least not more than e.g. Tribute does). On the contrary, the more Regal Decrees you play, the more you potentially help your opponent. It's especially neat if you fell behind in the deck building and lost the split of some key card. Your opponent got 7 of the Grand Markets? Just play them from their deck! It's the King's Court of the deprived!

I should probably add the clause "When this leaves play, stop resolving it" to Regal Decree to avoid tracking problems with Durations and Reserves.

I'd say that Dry dock is worth $4 even without the drawback. The +buy is a huge part of why Wharf is as strong as it is. As for Regal Decree, its wording is kind of confusing. I would change it to:

Regal Decree:
The player to your left reveals cards from the top of his deck until he reveals an Action card, which he then sets aside (and discards the others). Choose one: +1 Action; or, play the revealed Action three times, then set it aside again.

When this leaves play, stop resolving the set aside Action and put it into the hand of the player to your left.
Cost: $4
Action

It's pretty wordy now, though, so I might just ban Duration cards.

445
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Altered starting conditions
« on: December 16, 2015, 07:54:26 am »
What is the reason for heirlooms making you start with a 9-card deck?

Two of your Coppers are removed, but only one Heirlooms is added.

446
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: New Cards: Theatre and Inventor
« on: December 15, 2015, 06:34:11 pm »
You just need 3xKC, 2xProcession, 2xGraverobber, and 6xInventor.  Some of those could be in your deck to start since you will draw.  It is very similar to a recently posted modification of feast that could trash a different action from play.

play:
King's Court 0:
    King's Court 1:
        Procession 1->  3xInventor (+6 cards, +6 Actions, +$6, gain 3 $5 cards, Trash 3 Inventor)
        Graverobber 1-> Gain 3xInventor on top of deck, also topdeck KC1, Proc1, and GR1 from play.
        King's Court 2:
            Procession 2-> 3xInventor (as above, plus draws the cards we topdecked)
            Graverobber 2-> Gain 3xInventor on top of deck, also topdeck KC2, Proc2, and GR2

Add +buy token somewhere for infinite buys and buy out the whole supply.

That's rare enough that I don't think it matters (once you have all of those cards, you've already won).

447
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Traveller line: nuns and heretics
« on: December 15, 2015, 06:32:02 pm »
How do I know how much I get if I trash Vineyard or Feodum with Nun?
Oooo, right. Has anyone come up with a good wording to specify VP cards with a fixed number? Or do I need to retool to relate to cost. Or Specify Estate-Duchy-Province?

How about this ({} means VP):

Nun:
+3 Cards
+1 Action
Trash up to 3 Curses from your hand.
Trash a Victory card from your hand. If it cost...
$4 or less: +1{}
From $5 to $7: +3{}
$8 or more: +6{}
(This is not in the Supply)
Cost: $8*
Action

448
Variants and Fan Cards / New Cards: Theatre and Inventor
« on: December 15, 2015, 04:46:33 pm »
We playtested these two cards a while ago, but I never got around to posting them for some reason.

Inventor:
+1 Card
+1 Action
+$1

When you gain this, put it and a card you have in play on top of your deck.
Cost: $5
Action

Theatre:
+2 Cards
+2 Actions

When you gain this, put your deck into your discard pile. You can't buy this unless you have at least 4 differently named cards in play.
Cost: $6
Action

449
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Enterprise (Beta)
« on: December 15, 2015, 09:39:31 am »
This looks a lot more elegant, as I was hoping for. Could you please repost a link to the complete list of your current cards? I can't find it anywhere and I don't want to search through half the thread to find all the recent changes.

I would appreciate you doing this as well, LFN.

450
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Enterprise (Beta)
« on: December 15, 2015, 09:39:00 am »
Things are getting rolling. I tested a new card, Charlatan, last week. Since then I've printed and sleeved the new Redistrict (costs $0) and another new card.

Here is how a Treasure version of Conscripts might look:



Quote
Armament: Treasure–Attack, $4*
Worth $2
When you play this, if you have another Attack card in play, return this to the Armament pile and each other player gains a Curse.

It's a bit easier to activate than Conscripts, since you can e.g. play a Margrave, draw this with it, and still play it (for the attack, even). On the other hand, because this is a Treasure rather than an Action, the Barracks equivalent doesn't need +1 Action anymore.



Quote
Bladesmith: Action, $5
Gain an Armament from the Armament pile, putting it into your hand.

I think I prefer this, especially since so many of the $5 Action cards in Enterprise are non-terminal already. What do you all think, both about Conscripts vs. Armament, and the corresponding change to Barracks/Bladesmith?

Armament looks far better as a Treasure. It's also stronger, since you play it later and it's much easier to actually activate it.

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