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Messages - Fangz

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51
Dominion General Discussion / Re: [spoiler] Full Hinterlands card list
« on: October 29, 2011, 07:35:54 am »
You've turned that estate into 2 silvers - and a trader. In short, all you've done is obtained a second silver buy, and that turn where you drew a trader instead of just a silver to do that was probably ruined in the process.

52
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion Fan Card Contest
« on: October 28, 2011, 08:36:26 am »
I just saw a playtester, and told him some other players found Village Riot to be "weak and situational".

Quote
Wait... You mean the unstoppable demon machine?

Not the words I would have used, but pretty funny.

Ah okay, I didn't really think of the power of trashing other village riots from the supply. That's interesting then. I do wonder though whether the card is too dangerous, since it's not altogether obvious to any of us here what the card is for.

53
Dominion General Discussion / Re: What cards are still unique?
« on: October 27, 2011, 04:11:29 am »
Mandarin is the only card that lets you determine your hands for more than one turn.

54
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion Fan Card Contest
« on: October 26, 2011, 09:03:25 pm »
Quote
This card caught my fancy -- sort of discard version of Salvager?  But then I realized you could buy some early Provinces and use this as a cantrip +$4 all you wanted.  True, you'd have to collide them to get the benefit, but (unlike Tournament and Treasure Map, which also rely on collisions for big benefits) they're still perfectly playable and strong anyhow.  Estates turn these into Oracles, and Duchies turn them into hand-shrinking Conspirators.  I'd want this costing $5, and then I'd still worry it was too strong.

But it's an interesting idea, and I'm sure there's some way to balance it.   Maybe it could work as a $2 card if you took the +1 Card off?

My sense is that like crossroads, it feels a bit more powerful than it actually is. Drawing this in a deck of coppers or silvers would be pretty bad, and colliding it with estates just turns them into coppers. In a treasure rich deck, most of the time the card doesn't give you much benefit, and in a normal deck the majority of the time the card just replaces one of your cards with a virtual silver and gives you the card you would have gotten anyway. This can be a useful ability, but it doesn't seem greatly dangerous.

You could try and go for a province early, but you need to combine that with good card drawing to make the two collide, and the reward - a gold or another province, depending, is good but not game winning like a followers, and requires some setup. And really, I'm of the school of thought that says that you should price cards at the cheapest they can be without being overpowered, and I think $3 is good because $3 is cheap enough to be not a major tempo hit with +buy (allowing people to buy multiple ones or as auxillary buys), and not priced out of range of people whose engines have crashed and want to use it to try and grab the last province or two. If our judge of whether a card can be allowed to be a $3 is 'would it be too overwhelming if a player gets lots of these', I think people going mass pawnbrokers shouldn't really be overwhelming (drawing multiple pawnbrokers isn't much better than drawing coppers, without support), unless they come up with a very clever strategy . Draw Copper X4, Pawnbrokers, and you'll wish you got a silver instead.

55
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion Fan Card Contest
« on: October 26, 2011, 06:31:16 pm »
My thoughts:

Aphrodite:
Too complicated. The action effect also seems way too weak.

Bacchus:
This card is very interesting. I actually liked this one quite a bit, but the problem with it is that as a victory strategy it doesn't really help *end* the game. Which might work if you are counting on your opponent bogging down, but that scales badly in multiplayer. (I'm assuming it doesn't affect the normal 5 cards you draw.) It'd be a much less random card if changed to 'you may'.

Ceres:
I liked this one too. It's basically a pure stack depleter. But it seems too specific to certain situations.

Demeter:
Way too powerful.

Epona:
Seems kinda boring? I can see this replacing a number of cards, but I can't really see this card by itself creating any new strategies.

Fortuna:
Anything with a rulebook entry is too complicated.

Glycon:
I didn't really like it. It seems too much of a trap card. The +$1 and buy doesn't really help much in the early game except let you accumulate more of this card, and then your opponent empties the pile on his turn to make your deck crash dramatically. GG. You either get the last big use of it (trashing as you go), or you don't see much use until your opponent runs a megaturn, kicking your arse.

Hermes:
Boooring.

Iris:
So, um, it's a sub-militia? I feel like there's already too many militia type cards already, and I don't think this card will fulfill any role militia doesn't already.

Jupiter:
I like this. It's a village that is possibly not a mistake to get early. I'm not really sure the top decking is as important as it looks, but it might synergise with some other techniques.

Kratos:
Feels like a trap, since you need lots (and it's pricey) to be able to reliably draw it. Unless you have scheme in which case, it's possibly too powerful.

Luna:
My card! Woo.

The idea of Pawnbrokers is to (a) it acts as a weak pseudo-village, protecting against having too many terminals. Since most terminals are $4 or $5, Pawnbrokers gives you the silver effect most of them have, albeit without the attack/whatever effect. So you can get a bit more terminals without cutting your buy power. (b) it offers an alternative source of money for low-treasure or early greening strategies. Duchies become silvers, and Provinces become crazy ubergolds. So it acts as a late game Baron, which doesn't have the early boost but stays useful later and has more of a chance of connecting (and can be played repeatedly). Finally it combos well with tactician and conspirator and minion.

I debated giving it +buy, but I worried that this would make it too strong relative to Oasis.

Minerva:
Quite like Luna, really. The +3 cards on provinces is too strong though, leading probably to some serious snowballing.

Nox:
Argh nooo. I forsee some very, very frustrating games with players Noxing copper or Noxing province at the last minute, or multiplayer games where players literally can't do anything after the first few turns.

Osiris:
This seems kinda silly.

Pluto:
Not really worth picking up unless you are winning hugely already, too snowbally when it is.

Quirinus:
Too similar to Jester.

Roma:
Well, several of these aren't really useful. The action discard is a very very bad explorer, the curse isn't that much better than not having a card in the first place, and so on. It feels like it can hurt you a lot more than it can help you, but I can see this as an interesting, and strategic buy at $4.

Sol:
Gahahaha no.This seems kinda silly.

Pluto:
Not really worth picking up unless you are winning hugely already, too snowbally when it is.

Quirinus:
Too similar to Jester.

Roma:
Well, several of these aren't really useful. The action discard is a very very bad explorer, the curse isn't that much better than not having a card in the first place, and so on. It feels like it can hurt you a lot more than it can help you, but I can see this as an interesting, and strategic buy at $4.

Sol:
Gahahaha no.

Terra:
We've discussed this earlier. The problem is that it only really self-synergises with itself. The best card for this would be non-replacing +$ actions, but most of them are either terminal, or +2 actions. Meaning that generally, this will be no better than watchtower for making engines with, unless you grab a crapload. I still like this card though.

56
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Mandarin
« on: October 26, 2011, 03:40:29 pm »
From a bit of experimentation, it seems like mandarin based strategies aren't necessarily very fast, but they seem more consistent and maybe better at picking up duchies?

57
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Mandarin
« on: October 26, 2011, 03:15:34 pm »
To my mind, there's a variety of situations were Mandarin is very helpful.

One big source of Mandarin's value is if there aren't +buys in the supply and plenty of drawing power. Then a +3/deck can be huge. For example, running a laboratory or minion engine, you can topdeck a laboratory you don't need once you reach $8, stopping yourself from stalling next turn. Or top deck a gold, which is similar.

The second case is if there is tactician. Then there's two ways to play it - if you have strong copper trashing and plenty of silvers, etc, buying a mandarin at the right moment ensures that the next two turns are certain province buys. This can be great if your deck has been polluted with greens. The second possibility is in combination with a village - then two mandarins and a festival, say, produces a double tactician engine that can buy a province a turn. That's pretty nice, and can be quite fast to set up as well. http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201110/26/game-20111026-120934-fb103490.html does 4 in 15 turns, which is alright.

It also works good with crossroad engines. Draw a crossroad without support? Put the crossroad aside. Got some greens but no crossroad? Put the green on top of your deck.

It's too weird a card for there to be a one-size fits all strategy that always works, though.

Anyway by far the worst card in hinterlands is either duchess, or silk roads.

58
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Cards That Combo With Tunnel Reaction
« on: October 26, 2011, 02:14:39 pm »
If you are going for a fool's gold strategy, though, it's likely that the other player will be getting FG as well. If you are down to only 5 FG, having a mandarin to shuffle singleton FGs to the next hand and get $3 is pretty useful.

59
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion Fan Card Contest
« on: October 26, 2011, 05:30:02 am »
Well, I'm quite impressed that we all managed to come up with such different ideas for cards!

60
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Salvager CCCS Decision?
« on: October 25, 2011, 03:37:09 pm »
Ackack: Ah okay you are probably right.

Toskk: Well, haven resolves that problem.

61
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Salvager CCCS Decision?
« on: October 25, 2011, 02:47:55 pm »
Lab seems best to me here. Especially since you're shredding Estates, drawing an extra card is almost certainly going to be a bigger boost to your buying power than the delayed-Mine effect of Salvaging Silver for Gold.

Estates are going to be gone quickly. First gold is important.

Toskk:
Lemme amend my suggestion then. Pick up outpost. The extra buy helps, outpost with caravan and laboratories is basically an extra turn. If you have nothing to do with your outpost turn, you can pick up havens/warehouses/silvers (depending on preference), which will be surprisingly helpful later on, and just by playing it, it accelerates your deck cycling. Since you have no terminals, there's no reason not to.

62
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Salvager CCCS Decision?
« on: October 25, 2011, 12:01:43 pm »
Are these really the only options? Well, I'd grab gold.

63
Dominion General Discussion / Re: How do You Play Golem?
« on: October 25, 2011, 08:18:05 am »
Golem is also a good assist card for minion decks, but probably one you shouldn't pick up unless your opponent is ignoring minions, or you have a source of +buy, or minions have already been depleted. Really, the difficulty of picking it up is the main problem.

64
Dominion General Discussion / Re: What's your dominion pet peeve?
« on: October 25, 2011, 08:10:48 am »
Watch the cards he uses. If he's been having a rotten streak of draws since the last reshuffle, play the hags to cycle past the good cards he has remaining in his deck. If he's been playing golds and stuff, don't play the hags so that he has to deal with the less good cards in his deck. You don't need to card count (but it helps if you do keep track of how many golds he has, for example) but you should be able to figure out the relative strength of his remaining cards if you pay attention.

65
Dominion Articles / Re: Crossroads
« on: October 24, 2011, 05:18:31 pm »
I've actually built a treasureless deck using crossroad, plentiful estates, and Baron. Not sure if it's efficient at all though.

66
Dominion General Discussion / Re: [spoiler] Full Hinterlands card list
« on: October 24, 2011, 06:37:52 am »
An interesting thing to do is to buy a mandarin in a tactician turn. You can usually arrange to get two province buys out of that, assume you have some silvers and golds.

67
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Is there a right way to play Mine?
« on: October 22, 2011, 03:15:42 pm »
Don't forget about the factor of having treasures in the kingdom, like Harems and so on.

68
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Create a card inspired by another game
« on: October 22, 2011, 12:59:20 pm »
Great Old One:

Each player starts with a copy of this at the bottom of his deck. Each time this is drawn, add one Doom token. When 10xplayer number doom tokens have been given, the great old one awakes and *everyone loses*.

69
Dominion General Discussion / Re: [spoiler] Full Hinterlands card list
« on: October 21, 2011, 01:03:01 pm »
Sorry for being posty mcposterson this morning, but I feel like I am getting a good grasp on Hinterlands now.  It is starting to really gel.

The reason that I think Cache is a superb opener is that the two coppers actually help!  The starting Estates control a smaller share of the deck and it becomes very easy indeed to buy early Gold.  Yes, the two coppers also bring down the value of the Cache itself and the early Gold purchases but that is mitigated by having a live "Gold" available starting on turn 3.

That's only true if the average value of your deck is less than a copper though. I mean, what cache is up against is the rest of the $5s, and given how great they are, I can't see the value of cache being so great. If the extra coppers really help so much, you'd be seeing a lot more merchant ship/copper openings, instead of it being generally thought better to open $5 card/nothing at all.
(boldings mine)
Yeah, and at the opening, the average value of your deck is less than a copper.

Not after you buy your opening cards, though. Compare the copper openings to the /- openings on councilroom. Even something crappy like royal seal does better than royal seal/copper.

70
Dominion General Discussion / Re: [spoiler] Full Hinterlands card list
« on: October 21, 2011, 12:09:55 pm »
Sorry for being posty mcposterson this morning, but I feel like I am getting a good grasp on Hinterlands now.  It is starting to really gel.

The reason that I think Cache is a superb opener is that the two coppers actually help!  The starting Estates control a smaller share of the deck and it becomes very easy indeed to buy early Gold.  Yes, the two coppers also bring down the value of the Cache itself and the early Gold purchases but that is mitigated by having a live "Gold" available starting on turn 3.

That's only true if the average value of your deck is less than a copper though. I mean, what cache is up against is the rest of the $5s, and given how great they are, I can't see the value of cache being so great. If the extra coppers really help so much, you'd be seeing a lot more merchant ship/copper openings, instead of it being generally thought better to open $5 card/nothing at all.

I think you are getting caught up too much on a few rare games where cache just happened to be effective. I tried the haven/jack of all trades strategy, and yeah, while it is indeed strong, the 12 turn 6 province is *far* from an usual case. You gotta realise that when people run from isotropic to post about a great new combo, regression from the mean kinda says it's not going to be as impressive in the long term.

71
Dominion General Discussion / Re: [spoiler] Full Hinterlands card list
« on: October 21, 2011, 10:11:32 am »
I'm not convinced that develop is terrible. Maybe if you just think of it as an estate trasher, sure, but its powers are much more than that. Consider opening Develop/Terminal $4. Then if they don't collide, you play them separately, as normal, which is pretty good. If however they do collide, you aren't bad off at all - develop the $4 for a $5 and a silver or $3 village, and top deck. That's very fast starting development.

I don't see cache as being so awesome, so long as you don't have super rapid trash/cycle. Quarry and Contraband seem superior in most cases.

72
Dominion Isotropic / Re: Decline of civility on isotropic?
« on: October 20, 2011, 08:59:11 pm »
There's three keys to that game - trashing to get rid of coppers and estates, +buy, and attacking pressure with margrave/defending from that. His starting buys - potion/blackmarket just don't help with that at all. If he had gone silver-steward, or steward-watchtower, he could have gotten a margrave in response as early as turn 4, (and gotten another $5 card in turn 5), he could have acquired hamlets and trashed coppers and done actually useful things in the meantime.  I would have had a grand total of 1 margrave use more than him, and for that margrave I only bought a potion anyway. If he bought the right things, by turn 5 our decks could have been completely identical. (My buy phase monies for the first 5 turns were 2,5,3,4,3. His were 3,4,4,3-5 depending on card choice, 5) Heck, he could have capitalised on his chance to open steward and trashed two more cards than me.

Instead, he did a course of action that began with a bad opening, continued with a silver buy that was useless for peddler acquisition, and ended with him actually buying none of the hamlets and margraves that he complained about me getting. Instead he gets a laboratory and a crossroad for his deck with one terminal in it, and never picks up a trasher or a +buy. There's one thing blaming bad luck if you tried your best and fought for it, and quite another when you did things that were quite simply actively horrible.

73
Dominion Isotropic / Re: Decline of civility on isotropic?
« on: October 20, 2011, 07:56:12 pm »
A game just now.
Quote
0:42 theron: simpel 2/5 start end viktory
0:42 Fang: you could have gone watchtower
0:42 Fang: that's a hard counter to margrave
0:43 Fang: instead of black market and no trashers
0:43 theron: ???
0:43 Fang: there was for example no point you picking up crossroads
0:44 Fang: If I was you, I'd have gone for watchtower and hamlets asap
0:44 Fang: and gone for the margrave with my first $5 instead of laboratory
0:44 theron: hey you get the Margrave and tje Hamlet and also the most Peddler what the fuck tell you for a shit???
0:44 Fang: I'm just giving you some friendly advice
0:45 Fang: there are things you could have done
0:45 theron: you telling simply shit i had no chance in this game because of your 2/5 start thjats the simple true
0:45 Fang: that's not even slightly true.
0:46 theron: if i had the 2/5 star i will witrh this cards simply win
0:46 Fang: really.
0:46 theron: and you too
0:46 Fang: I hate players like you
0:47 Fang: who blame luck when they plainly had no idea what they are doing
0:47 Fang: when you bought poition/bm... why?
0:47 Fang: potion
0:47 theron: and i hate players like you
0:47 Fang: for learning the game?
0:47 Fang: resign now then, and rematch
0:48 theron: make your turn ready than i can give up and you can be proud of your wisdomm
He then refused to play a rematch with identical starting hands.

Grr, yes, something you get bad shuffle luck, but people who use that as an excuse when they played badly throughout... so damn annoying.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201110/20/game-20111020-164827-cc1d3235.html

74
Dominion General Discussion / Re: [spoiler] Full Hinterlands card list
« on: October 20, 2011, 08:41:35 am »
Uh, how? I can't see anything that powerful.

75
Puzzles and Challenges / Re: The 5 Card Fantasy Deck
« on: October 20, 2011, 06:56:24 am »
Lemme think about this:


Deck/hand is KC KC Bridge Ironworks Ironworks
KC:
KC-Bridge
KC-Ironworks : Nobles, Nobles, Nobles
(Drawing 3 Nobles into hand since we have no other cards)
KC-Ironworks : KC, Ironworks, Ironworks
Play a nobles, so hand is now KC Nobles Nobles Ironworks Ironworks
KC Ironworks - KC, Ironworks, KC
Play a nobles, so hand is now KC KC Nobles Ironworks Ironworks
KC KC:
KC Ironworks - KC KC Bridge
KC Ironworks - Bridge Bridge Bridge
KC Nobles - Drawing everything, so hand is now KC KC Bridge Bridge Bridge Bridge
Play KC KC - Bridge Bridge Bridge and one final bridge for luck

Buy everything. So there, that's a 1 turn solution. I dunno if there are any alternative methods.

I think that works, if my interpretation of the 'gain, then resolve effects' power of ironworks is correct.

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