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26

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Golem + Scheme + 1 good action/attack

« on: November 15, 2011, 05:17:51 pm »

The one time I had this going, I had Golem, Scheme *2, Attack *2.  Sometimes I missed and only got one attack off, but I rarely had Golem/Scheme/Scheme happen.  It also felt stronger than just one attack.

27

Dominion Isotropic / Re: Decline of civility on isotropic?

« on: November 08, 2011, 11:03:38 am »

I only get annoyed if someone quits by hitting exit and then timing out so I have to force resign them.  This is my understanding of a ragequit.  If they actually take the time to wait for the beginning of their turn to hit the resign button, I already consider that a courtesy, regardless of whether or not they say gg.  The problem seems worse in 3p/4p games. 

Afterthought: In some cases it might be due to players not knowing how to resign.  A permanently visible resign button might help that.

I thought exit auto-resigned the player as soon as it was an option for them to do so.  I've also had people resign on me as soon as the game gave them a choice (in the middle of my long action string that ended with an attack), which I assumed was from previously hitting exit.


And yes, resigning in 3/4 player games is a problem due to how many cards are available and the power level of various cards that change.

28

Dominion General Discussion / Re: What's your strategy with this set?

« on: November 03, 2011, 12:56:50 pm »

The simplest strategy is Silver/Conspirator.  Grab a Haggler on the first shuffle, then start picking up the components (Grand Market, Bazaar, and Conspirator).  Possibly grab a second Haggler if the deck feels like it's reaching a good critical mass each turn.  Grab a Crossroads with the first spare 2$/buy from a Grand Market, and make decisions based on how your deck's green, action, and money density is.

There's also a Stash/Crossroads strategy which is going for the goal of getting four Stashes and using Crossroads to rapidly cycle through the deck.  Which is probably terrible but sounds like fun.

29

Dominion Articles / Re: Updating the Top 5 lists

« on: November 02, 2011, 09:46:34 pm »

I don't get the hate for develop some people have. It's a nice, albeit situational card. It sucks as an estate/copper trasher, but the times where there's useful $5-3 cards are more common than people think. I'd put oracle on this list.

The problems with Develop-
 * Unlike a lot of the trash for +1/2 benefit, it's not good in multiples.  If I draw two Remodels, I get a Gold.  Two Remakes gives me a $5 card.  Two Upgrades gives me a gold.  Two Develops... and I get an Estate and a $4?
 * It needs to rely on the rest of the board to have good combos.  I'm sure someone has done a Develop/Mountebank/King's Court board, but most of the time it's turning an average $4 card into a $5 card and a silver.  Which isn't bad, but it kind of wastes the $4 card and I'm stuck with trying to do something with my other 3 cards.
 * A lot of times when I buy a bad trasher (Lookout, Trade Routes) early on, my goal is to have a slim deck with some cool combo going.  In that instance, the bad trasher can still give some benefit even late in the game.  But Develop takes my skinny deck and starts fattening it up if I try to use it.

It has its uses.  I'm sure someone has looked at a board and declared "Develop is the key to my plan!" and been right.  But for a general purpose best/worst list of "Am I thinking about getting this card when it shows up?", it easily fits under the not good.

30

Dominion Articles / Re: Updating the Top 5 lists

« on: November 02, 2011, 03:52:46 pm »

@ WanderingWinder-

I think Remake has to be on the top $4 list.  I also like Menagerie more than Warehouse, although both are rather strong.  Or you could just cheat and say Silver. 

I think Ill-Gotten Gains needs to be moved to an attack, since it looks like an attack and acts like an attack.  There's a lot of competition for the final two cards in the top $5 list, which prettyy much comes down to what bonus the player wants with their +1 card/+1 action.

31

Dominion Articles / Re: Updating the Top 5 lists

« on: November 02, 2011, 01:07:15 pm »

The main issue with any "top X list" is that it needs to be written with a specific goal in mind.

There are probably three different articles that could be written-

* A list of cards that are powerful by themselves.  Cards that change the way the game is played in combination with others (Gardens, Fool's Gold, Crossroads) should not be on this list or be given an honorable mention.

* A list of cards that are game-altering.  Stuff like Gardens or Fool's Gold would make that list, but other cards that are just "good" might not (like Laboratory).

* An educational article for a mid-level player.  Clump together cards that do similar things with an emphasis on the power of things like Tactician and Vault and the weakness of cards like Great Hall or Spy.

32

Dominion Articles / Re: Updating the Top 5 lists

« on: November 01, 2011, 05:31:09 pm »

For what I feel, fool's gold is definitely on the useful list, as it can dominate on some boards. Except chapel and to some extent hamlet, no other cards at $2 do that. I will not rate a $2 terminal silver bad. It may be boring, but not bad.

I agree.  Fool's Gold is one of the three $2 buys that can set up a brand new strategy.  It needs good trashing (2+ cards) or +buy and +card draw.  At the same time, without those aspects it's a terrible card that should be avoided.  It might not crack the top-5 list because of how swingy it is, but it needs to be an honorable mention.

----

For $5 non-attacks, I believe Vault needs to be the one bumped off the list instead of Tactician.  I'd argue for Tacticican being in the top three (below Hunting Party and Wharf)... but that's more personal opinion.

-------------

One of the big things with the best/worst list is that a lot of it is trying to teach Dominion concepts.  Simple things like "Merely drawing a card and getting an action is not a good thing" and "Discarding your entire hand to get ten cards next turn is really strong".  Which is why a card like Ironworks is on there -- it looks good initially, but playing it without a plan is a bad idea.  Same with stuff like Pearl Diver and Pawn.

------------

Regarding Noble Brigand-- it becomes more powerful in multiplayer and its power level is closely associated with how much your opponent's deck is "big money".  Like the other money attack cards.

33

Dominion Articles / Re: Combo: Apothecary/Native Village

« on: October 31, 2011, 10:41:05 am »

It's a good combo.  It does feel a bit lumpy when it comes to winning, especially if I can only get three Apothecaries early on.  (With 13-15 cards, there's a 25% chance or so of missing on the first shuffle).

It's also annoying to do nothing with four or five copper early on.  I'd really want to test it with going for double native village and just buying victory points as soon as possible, but I'll wait for a simulator update first.

34

Simulation / Re: Hinterlands now available in Geronimoo's Dominion Simulator

« on: October 28, 2011, 02:15:29 pm »

Scheme is currently never returning itself, even if it was the only card played.

What Scheme really needs is return rules, but that might be too complicated (i.e. return 1 village and 1 torturer).  It also doesn't have a high priority on Golem.

And as a side note, the simulator didn't play King's Court as a blank, preventing it from being returned with Scheme.

35

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Cards That Combo With Tunnel Reaction

« on: October 26, 2011, 02:36:48 pm »

Mandarin - Mint is maybe the first combo I've heard that makes me think that Mandarin might have some kind of purpose.  So, you know, kudos.

Buying a Mandarin over a Duchy in order to try for a Province next turn is also useful.  There's also Tactician with $13 to $15 -> Province/Mandarin -> Province next turn -> Duchy/$5 the following turn.

-----------

For Tunnel and self-discard, I've had poor games with trying to get it going on anything that is discard from the top of my deck or 1-2 discard from my hand.  I also was destroyed by an opponent going Village/Goons/Margrave.

I think in terms of self-use, Tunnel needs to be discard 3+ from hand or 5+ from the deck.  For defense, it needs to be evaluated as what it is first -- I'm not going to grab it to fight against a Militia or Goons unless I'm already at the stage of the game where victory points are useful.

36

Dominion General Discussion / Re: [spoiler] Full Hinterlands card list

« on: October 26, 2011, 12:49:20 pm »

Is there a way to see Council Room stats on a week-by-week basis?  It would be interesting to see the development of Hinterlands as it gets incorporated into the game.

37

Dominion Articles / Re: Combo: Scheme + Conspirator

« on: October 26, 2011, 11:30:04 am »

My experience with solitaire Conspirator/Scheme games is that it's a lot like Conspirator/Village games.  The Scheme is an improved Village (since most Conspirator decks will need to buy two of them anyways) but the trashing is still a huge requirement.  +Buy is also very useful just because a fully working Conspirator deck will be generating some spare money a lot of the time.  The deck doesn't work well with card draw as a boost to deal with poor trashing. 

Note: I just tried Conspirator/Scheme/Remake -- it's really good.  My test games of Conspirator/Scheme/Lookout or Conspirator/Scheme/Salvager were average -- it was an acceptable combo, but not something that I'd recognize as being board dominant.

38

Dominion General Discussion / Re: [spoiler] Full Hinterlands card list

« on: October 24, 2011, 09:43:36 pm »

Scheme fits strongly into four different decks-

* Attack!  A good $5 or $6 attack that is worth playing every turn.  Use multiple schemes and moneys and just keep it rolling.  I haven't looked at density requirements, but I think three schemes are slightly overkill for getting that card every turn, but two might not be enough.  Probably the most basic use for Scheme.  Can be used with other strong actions, it's just there aren't that many out there that compare with attacks.

* King's Court combo.  Use multiples of each to set up a constant five to six card hand.

* Golem.  Scheme *2 + Golem + 2 good actions is enough to play at least one and maybe two of those actions every turn.

* Scrying Pool.  Seems like a natural fit for an average to good Pool deck.  Really useful if the deck only has 2-3 Scrying Pools.


I haven't tried Scheme/Tactician yet.  I think it would also be strong, as it allows for a Tactician every other turn.

39

Dominion Articles / Re: Goons engine: Consistent 20 VP Chip each turn!

« on: October 21, 2011, 12:48:20 pm »

Golem/Scheme is a combo -- it almost gurantees playing a strong action every turn (only a Golem/Scheme/action hand prevents it).  Something like Montebank or Witch or Goons, for example.

King's Court/Scheme is a combo -- it just needs to get to a second King's Court, a second Scheme, and a third action.  It will then play that action three times every turn while returning all those cards back for another hand.

40

Dominion General Discussion / Re: [spoiler] Full Hinterlands card list

« on: October 20, 2011, 11:09:40 pm »

Assuming Golem/Scheme/powerful attack (Goons, Mountebank, Witch, etc)...

Is it a good plan to go for the combo, and if so is it worth it to try to double up on the attacks with two Schemes or just go for one of each with Golem/Scheme/attack?

41

Dominion General Discussion / Re: [spoiler] Full Hinterlands card list

« on: October 20, 2011, 09:41:27 am »

Jack of all Trades is a lot better than you might think. It does a lot of very mediocre things, but don't let that fool you. As long as you're not building some elaborate treasureless engine, this is an elite opener (it beats Envoy for instance and is almost a coin flip against double Mountebank)

Yeah, I haven't figured out why it's good but it's very good.

What is the average turn for 4-Province you are getting in simulations?

42

Dominion General Discussion / Re: [spoiler] Full Hinterlands card list

« on: October 19, 2011, 12:57:28 pm »

So my quick testing of Jack of All Trades was kind of interesting.

It felt like it was fast for getting four Provinces.  Most of the time it was turn 12 or 13.  Once it was turn 14, and a few times it was by turn 11.  I'm wondering what the average turn is now, but I don't have access to a simulator at the moment.

However, after getting four Provinces, like a lot of Silver spam strategies, it slowed down a lot.  It usually took me 2-3 more turns before getting Province #5 and even more to get others after that.

43

Dominion General Discussion / Re: [spoiler] Full Hinterlands card list

« on: October 19, 2011, 09:51:53 am »

Is Oasis/JoAT a subtle supercombo?  It may have been perfect shuffle luck but damn, this simple deck produced 4 P's by turn 11, and 6 by 14.

Jack of All Trades is actually a surprisingly strong card.  It counters discard and curse attacks, it creates money, and it trashes the first three estates quickly.  It's probably the newsness still talking, but I think I would buy one over every other $4 except Remake.

Like any "draw up to" card, it combos well with discarders (Inn, Oasis, Hamlet, Warehouse).

44

Dominion General Discussion / Re: [spoiler] Full Hinterlands card list

« on: October 18, 2011, 12:40:33 pm »

This expansion has a learning curve, most especially with other stalwarts on the board. Looking at cards like Rabble and Masquerade, with Hinterland cards mixed in, really messes with my decision making. If I play unregistered, is this the same as essentially practicing? That might be the solution.

The main thing this expansion does is require looking 1 or 2 turns ahead.  Previously in Dominion, a player could reasonably do well by concentrating on this turn.  The extent of planning for the future was figuring out how much money or special actions were left in the deck and deciding when to go green.

Now, the decision on what to buy will also directly impact the next turn.  It's fun, but it leads to people freezing up as they have to think over two turns constantly.

45

Dominion Isotropic / Re: Decline of civility on isotropic?

« on: October 18, 2011, 12:16:31 am »

23:14 o_O: gg db

Somehow, I don't think that's the proper meaning of gg.

46

Dominion General Discussion / Re: The Purpose of Thief

« on: October 17, 2011, 10:37:08 pm »

The purpose of Thief is to try to teach the concept of a lock-out strategy, where the money is attacked in the opponent's deck.  It's goal really is to trash all the treasure in an opponent's deck.  It also teaches how to defend against Thief, by buying actions over money.

It just doesn't do the lockout very well.  It does interact strongly with two of the other pillars of the base set, Chapel and Gardens.


Noble Brigand serves a different purpose, attacking Gold/Silver and flooding the opponent.

47

Dominion General Discussion / Re: So the new Hinterlands cards are coming out... thoughts?

« on: October 17, 2011, 12:31:10 pm »

In comparison to other $5 attacks, how powerful is Ill-Gotten Gains?  I assume it's worse than a Witch, but is it better than a Jester?  Do I want to spam it or should I stop after getting 2-4?

It just seems like such an odd card to me -- sure they're getting a curse, but I'm ending up with a copper or a silver that requires me to grab a copper.

48

Other Games / Re: Donald X.'s new game Kingdom Builder

« on: September 08, 2011, 02:30:27 am »

From what it sounds like--

* Simple rules on expanding the empire
* Three different scoring objectives each game out of a possible 10
* Four random powerups out of a possible 8
* Random map built out of quadrants

I don't see much Dominion in it actually.  It's mostly a simple empire-expansion game (the engine) with complex objectives.

49

Dominion General Discussion / Chapel/Remake/Treasure Map -- What's the trashing strategy?

« on: August 28, 2011, 12:23:55 pm »

First (and maybe last) time I've seen this setup in one of my games.  But it was an interesting mental puzzle.

I went Remake/Chapel, but I had no idea what and how to trash with Remake and Chapel.  Do I want to save an Estate from Chapel in order to chain up to a treasure map?  Is getting rid of coppers better than estates initially so I can trash more frequently?


Note: No cursers or any other amazing cards to go get besides those three (Tournament, Caravan, Laboratory, etc).

50

Puzzles and Challenges / Buy how many coppers?

« on: July 29, 2011, 04:28:58 pm »

Based on a recent game I played-

http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20110728-165337-922a1797.html

It's my turn, and I've finally made the perfect King's Court/City deck.  Only problem is my opponent has been buying all the Colonies and I'm way behind on points.  My plan is to catch up with Banks and Coppers.

Setup at the beginning of my turn --

4 Colony, 8 Province, 0 Nobles, 8 Duchy, 8 Estate, 10 Curse
4 King's Court, 9 Bazaar, 0 City, 10 Vault, 9 Menagerie, 7 Trade Route
12 Platinum, 9 Bank, 30 Gold, 6 Quarry, 10 Loan, 38 Silver, 46 Copper

Copernicus turn 14
lysosome: 46 points : 4 Colony, 1 Bank, 2 King's Court, 3 Nobles, 1 Bazaar, 2 City, 2 Quarry, 1 Silver, 2 Trade Route, 0 Estate, 7 Copper
Copernicus: 10 points : 4 King's Court, 5 Nobles, 8 City, 2 Quarry, 0 Menagerie, 0 Silver, 1 Trade Route, 0 Estate, 0 Copper

Assuming that my hand would allow for purchasing 3 Banks and around 20 buys, how many coppers would you purchase?  My goal is to win the next turn and my opponent has been fairly good at buying a Colony every turn and maybe a Province if they're unlucky.