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Messages - Erick648

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In a 2-player game, respecting the 3-pile rule, I can get as high as 255 (51 Tactician plays):

Kingdom: Black Market (containing Masquerade, Throne Room; or those can just be in the Kingdom since there's room), Highway (or other cost reducer), Royal Carriage, Tactician, Hireling (or other duration draw), King's Court, Prince, Inheritance, Pathfinding

Empty Piles: Prince, Tactician

In play: Hireling x9
Set aside: Prince x10 with King's Court x9 (courtesy of Highway) and Throne Room x1; Royal Carriage with Inheritance
Tokens: +Card on Tactician, Inheritance with Royal Carriage
Tavern Mat: Royal Carriage x8, Estate x13 (7 from the Supply, 6 starting Estates courtesy of Masquerade)
Hand: Tactician

Start of Turn:
1. Resolve Prince A, playing King's Court A, playing Tactician A three times (drawing a card each time with Pathfinding to discard with Tactician). (Total plays: 3)
2. Resolve Hireling A, drawing Tactician B.
3. Repeat 1-2 eight more times. (Total plays: 27)
4. Resolve Prince J, playing Throne Room, playing Tactician J twice. (Total plays: 29)
5. Call all of the Royal Carriages and Estates, playing Tactician J twenty-two more times. (Total plays 51)

Next turn, you draw 255 cards from your 51 Tactician plays.

You can get even more with Procession and Lurker/Graverobber/Rogue (for example, replace Throne Room with Procession, use some Caravans or something to draw a Lurker and a cantrip, then during your Action phase use Lurker to get the trashed Tactician back, draw it with the cantrip, and play it), but I haven't optimized it.

Edit: Overlord could also help here.  Or instead of Kinging/Throning/Processioning the Tacticians directly, Throne a Vassal/Herald and have it hit King's Court (or Procession) for the Tacticians.  I bet you could get a really high number with an elaborate enough setup, using Prince-based chains to play most of the Tacticians at the start of your turn where you can use any number of Durations (or Guide) to get more cards after discarding with Tactician.

Game Reports / Re: Engines need +buy
« on: August 25, 2017, 05:12:53 pm »
Engines don't always need +Buy, but if you don't have it, you need to make sure you have some other plan to get a high amount of VP/turn, such as Gainers/Remodelers (e.g. Hero+Remodel) or VP tokens (though many VP token cards require +Buy to get significant VP from them).

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Best Dominion moments 2017
« on: August 25, 2017, 01:12:08 pm »
I just opened Travelling Fair/Chapel/Alms/Tournament.

Like, on two turns back to back, or in 1 turn?

TF/Chapel on turn 1, trash 4 cards and Alms for Tournament on turn 2. There isn't really a way to do all of that in just 1 turn as far as I can tell.
I think you can do that on Turn 2 of the opening if you get 5/2 and buy Travelling Fair/Poor House/non-Treasure on Turn 1, so you start Turn 2 with a hand of Poor House-non-Treasure-Estate-Estate-Estate.  I don't think you can do that Turn 1 (certainly not in a 2-player game), because you need $4 for Travelling Fair/Chapel, but can't buy Alms with Coppers in play, meaning you need $4 other than your starting Coppers.  Baker and Borrow can get you to $2, but I can't see how you get the other $2.  Maybe when Nocturne comes out, one of the Heirlooms will be a +$ Action card or a one-shot Treasure (like Spoils), and then it will be possible.

Edit: I found one.  6-player game, with Chapel, Horse Traders, Messenger, Noble Brigand, Baker, Lost City, Alms, Travelling Fair.
Player 1: Buys Messenger, gives out Horse Traders (you have 5 cards in deck, Horse Traders in discard).
Player 2: Buys Noble Brigand (you have 3 cards in deck, Horse Traders and others in discard).
Player 3: Buys Noble Brigand (you have 1 card in deck, Horse Traders and others in discard).
Player 4: Buys Lost City (you have no cards in deck, Horse Traders and others in discard).
Player 5: Buys Lost City (you reshuffle and draw Horse Traders).
You: Play Horse Traders, spend Baker coin, buy Travelling Fair/Chapel/Alms/Tournament.

Dominion General Discussion / Re: The bad luck thread
« on: August 25, 2017, 12:50:57 pm »
I recently had an IRL game in which not only did I get the Golden Sombrero, but after my Turn 3, an opponent's Rabble (the only opening Rabble in the game), discarded not only my Turn 1-2 buys but (after reshuffling) my Turn 3 buy as well, forcing me to play 5 turns with my starting cards. 

I calculate the odds of this happening at less than 1:950 (chance of Golden Sombrero=(2/12)*(1/11); chance of opponent who bought Rabble playing it Turn 4=5/12; chance of Rabble's third card being my Turn 3 purchase=1/6).

Ouch. OUCH.

Did your opponent have the presence of mind to offer sympathy?

Not sure if it's just me, but when I get unlucky in IRL games, most of the people I get unlucky against aren't even good enough to realize they've gotten lucky.
This was sort of the case here.  They knew I'd gotten unlucky, but they were less experienced than me and I'd beaten them pretty hard in previous games, so they didn't really pay attention to my bad luck, instead focusing on their own decks.  Which I don't really blame them for; it was probably only fair that I have a bit of a handicap anyway.

Dominion General Discussion / Re: The bad luck thread
« on: August 23, 2017, 03:24:47 pm »
I recently had an IRL game in which not only did I get the Golden Sombrero, but after my Turn 3, an opponent's Rabble (the only opening Rabble in the game), discarded not only my Turn 1-2 buys but (after reshuffling) my Turn 3 buy as well, forcing me to play 5 turns with my starting cards. 

I calculate the odds of this happening at less than 1:950 (chance of Golden Sombrero=(2/12)*(1/11); chance of opponent who bought Rabble playing it Turn 4=5/12; chance of Rabble's third card being my Turn 3 purchase=1/6).

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Least thematic card?
« on: July 02, 2017, 04:05:26 pm »
Harem doesn't fit with the theming for either victory or treasure cards.
It doesn't even have any reason for providing you with money, which is a big negative given that the card's whole gimmick was being a Treasure-Victory card.  Not to mention that at the time Intrigue was released, Dominion was still limited to medieval Europe, making a Middle Eastern harem out-of-place (although this changed with Seaside, and the game now spans roughly two millennia of world history, from the classical era to the colonial era).  I've often thought of remaking my copies into something more thematic like "Relic" (before that became an official card) or "Jewels" (which is admittedly bland, but in keeping with the vanilla treasures it resembles---like precious metals, only more showy and less practical for spending).

Now that I think of it, Relic is pretty bad, too.  The treasure part fits, but since when do relics zap your enemies outside of Indiana Jones movies (though in those they're more likely to zap the user for irreverence, now that I think about it)?  Even if you believe the stories of relics performing miracles, they're usually benevolent things like healing rather than anything aggressive.  Really, Amulet and Relic could use a name swap (and new art for Relic; it looks like an ordinary necklace---even a gilded box containing the relic would be better).  A valuable magic amulet that zaps people makes sense, as does a relic that can earn you money or provide trashing (which already has religious theming---donations? absolution?---with cards like Chapel and Bishop).

I would also nominate the entire category of terminal draw cards, which never settled around a coherent theme like cards that increase your Actions (population) or Buys (commerce).  Sure, there are plenty of exceptions in the other categories, but at least you can see a theme, whereas terminal draw cards have virtually nothing in common (Royal Blacksmith is a nice callback to Smithy---and to Grand Market, for that matter---but that's about it). 

There's also Woodcutter, as noted by Donald X, but at least it has the excuse of dating from a time when +Buy was called "+Build", which would have made it thematic.

Have two princes activated. One with harbinger, one with vassal.

Used the harbinger to topdeck teacher. Used the vassal to play the teacher.

Turns out you can call the teacher immediately because it's still the start of the turn.
This is even easier with a Princed Throne Room (or Procession, although Princing Procession is a risky move; Disciple also works if you have cost reduction, and is always available with Teacher), since you just need to have it in your hand instead of on top of your deck.

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Dominion song parodies
« on: June 30, 2017, 02:23:57 am »
"We are the Pirate Ships
who don't do anything.
We just sit here
and clog your deck
and if you play us
to do anything,
we'll just show you..."
"we don't do anything!

"Well I've never trashed a Silver,
and I've never trashed a Gold card,
and I can't trash kingdom treasures 'cause this board has none of that.
And I've never trashed a Platinum,
and I've never trashed a Potion,
and the thin Action-based engine stomped me flat."

"We are the Pirate Ships
who don't do anything.
We just sit here
and clog your deck
and if you play us
to do anything,
we'll just show you..."
"we don't do anything!

"And I never pay for Minion,
and I never pay for King's Court,
and I never pay for Province 'cause there's no coins on my mat.
And I've never paid for Highway,
and I've never paid for Chapel,
and the thin Action-based engine stomped me flat."

"We are the Pirate Ships
who don't do anything.
We just sit here
and clog your deck
and if you play us
to do anything,
we'll just show you..."
"we don't do anything!

"Well, I've never topdecked Tunnel,
and I can't react to Swindler,
and I've never moved my Ferry token onto Bureaucrat.
And I've never Princed a Swamp Hag,
and I've never been Embargoed,
and the thin Action-based engine stomped me flat."

"Huh? What are you talkin' about? What's a Tunnel and Ferry tokens have to do with playing a Pirate Ship?"
"Hey, that's right. We're supposed to sing about Pirate Ship things."
"And who's ever Princed a Swamp Hag? That's just nonsense! Why even bring it up? Am I right? What do you think?"
"I think you look like the Black Pearl."
"Huh? No I don't."
"Do too."
"Do not!"
"You've made your point, savvy?"
"That's it. You're walking the plank."
"Says who?"
"Says the Cap'n! That's who!"
"Oh yeah? Aye aye, Cap'n Sparrow! Hee hee hee hee!"

"And I've never gained a Beggar,
and I've never drawn a Ranger,
and I've never placed a Duchess on an empty Island mat.
And I've never triggered Merchant,
and I don't exchange for Venture..."

"You just don't get it."
"...and the thin Action-based engine stomped us flat!"

Burnt Pork - An independent young Enchantress falls in love with a dark, brooding Cultist.  Alas, it was not meant to be.  (Ed. note: "A real Page-turner. Treasure Hunters and above were not as impressed.")

And the sequels...
Burnt Pork: Red Meat - While trying to forget her beloved Cultist, the Enchantress falls in love with a rugged Marauder.  Meanwhile, the Cultist despairs and goes to an Altar to trash himself.  (Ed. note: "Burnt Pork: Red Meat continues to set new standards in the porcine paranormal romance novel genre.")

Burnt Pork: Chopping Block - The Enchantress is forced to choose between her Cultist and her Marauder.  (Ed. note: Are you Team Cultist or Team Marauder?)

Burnt Pork: Sizzling Bacon - The Enchantress marries the Cultist, drawing the ire of the other Cultists after she turns a Ruined Village into a cantrip pig.  The Marauder marries the pig.  (Ed. note: Publication was marred by a leaked ending, which many preferred over the published version, and reportedly involved a very large Donation.)

I had a version of these called Realms:

Since that post I've made a few more (such as one which has you use 2 fewer Kingdom cards and 2 more Events and 2 more Landmarks, and one which lets you pay up to half of the cost of non-Victory cards in Debt).  I've been playing with these every game for the past year or so, and enjoyed them (note that I have several copies of "no effect" Realms, so not every game has a special rule).

I like the ones you made; most of them look like components I'd want to play with. 

I am concerned that the one that enhances base treasures could lead to monolithic Big Money Ultimate games on most boards, where the best strategy is to spend every turn buying Province when you can afford it and Base Treasures otherwise, and ignore everything else (except maybe Duchy in the endgame if you get an unlucky hand or are Duchy-dancing).  Starting with a money density of $1.4/card, with a $3 treasure available for $3 and a $4 treasure available for $6, gives you little incentive to purchase anything else (maybe some +Buy or sifting/smoothing, but there might not be time for that).  Just open Province/Gold or Gold/Gold (and curse your luck if you get a 5/2 split and have to open Gold/Silver), then rush the Provinces.  Maybe you could tone it down a bit to something like "The first Copper you play each turn produces an extra $1" (which affects strategy more than buffing Gold and Silver, which you already want most games, and still has a significant impact on the game without redirecting it entirely).

Also, your 2-player one should also give your opponents your Victory tokens (probably not Curses, though, since having them in your deck is arguably worse than the -1VP), although I share Asper's concerns that an Estate/Duchy rush might be too dominant with that.

Grand Market + Ferry + Band of Misfits

What should I use to buy my first couple Grand Markets? How about Grand Market!

This board also featured Beggar + Triumph, which, with the Grand Markets, led to a pretty juicy last turn.

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Homage to the Best Card
« on: February 14, 2017, 10:48:51 pm »
Now I really want a Lord of the Rings Dominion.

I don't have the software to easily make the card graphics, but here you go:

Dominion: The Fellowship of the Ring

$2 - Action
Trash up to 4 cards from your hand.

Tom Bombadil
$2 - Action - Reaction
+2 Cards                                         .
When another player plays an Attack card you may first reveal this from your hand, to be unaffected by it.

Wilderness Paths
$2 - Action
+1 Action
Discard any number of cards, then draw that many.

Bilbo Baggins
$3 - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
Look through your discard pile. You may put a card from it onto your deck.

$3 - Action
Discard the top card of your deck. If it's an Action card, play it.

Farmer Maggot
$3 - Action
Gain a card costing up to $4.

The Prancing Pony
$3 - Action
+1 Card
+2 Actions

Barrow Downs
$4 - Action - Attack
Gain a Silver onto your deck. Each other player reveals a Victory card from their hand and puts it onto their deck (or reveals a hand with no Victory cards).

Gates of Moria
$4 - Action - Attack
Each other player discards down to 3 cards in hand.

$4 - Action
You may trash a Copper from your hand for +$3.

Grey Havens Party
$4 - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
Discard a card per empty Supply pile.

$4 - Action
Trash a card from your hand. Gain a card costing up to $2 more than it.

$4 - Action
You may play an Action card from your hand twice.

Shire Homestead
$4 - Victory
Worth 1VP per 10 cards you have (round down).

$4 - Action
+3 Cards

Chamber of Marzarbul
$5 - Action - Attack
Gain a Gold. Each other player reveals the top 2 cards of their deck, trashes a revealed Treasure other than Copper, and discards the rest.

Council of Elrond
$5 - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy

Gandalf the Grey
$5 - Action
+4 Cards
+1 Buy
Each other player draws a card.

$5 - Action
Draw until you have 7 cards in hand, skipping any Action cards you choose to; set those aside, discarding them afterwards.

Mines of Moria
$5 - Action
You may trash a Treasure from your hand. Gain a Treasure to your hand costing up to $3 more than it.

Mirror of Galadriel
$5 - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
Look at the top 2 cards of your deck.  Trash and/or discard any number of them. Put the rest back on top in any order.

$5 - Action
+2 Actions
+1 Buy

Ships of Lorien
$5 - Action
+2 Cards
+1 Action

$5 - Action - Attack
+2 Cards
Each other player gains a Curse.

$6 - Action
Gain a card to your hand costing up to $5. Put a card from your hand onto your deck.

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Semi-Interesting Dominion Moments Thread
« on: February 04, 2017, 06:39:26 pm »
I recently played a 3-player game with Tomb, Bandit Fort, Lurker, Stonemason, and Mining Village, among others (but no viable alternative sources of coin), and won with a trashing rush.

Because some games, you don't care about the Victory cards. Some games, you just want to watch the Kingdom burn.

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Homage to the Best Card
« on: January 20, 2017, 05:43:11 pm »

Scout didn't die; he just got a little help.

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Really bad card ideas
« on: January 20, 2017, 05:14:55 pm »
(3.14159) Mathematician's Stone
When you play this, discard a card from your hand and put your deck into your discard pile.  Worth ($) equal to the square of the standard deviation of the cost in ($) of the cards in your discard pile.

Cache + Fountain

It's kind of awkward trying to pick up an extra 3 Coppers in a Fountain game, particularly if there's no +Buy.  Cache solves that problem by giving them to you when you buy a "Gold".  Beggar is better, obviously, but then you have a Beggar in your deck, and you really only want 3 extra coppers, not tons.

Banquet + Fountain

For basically the same reasons.
If you don't trash any Coppers, you can satisfy Fountain in a single $3 buy if the <$5 card you choose to gain with Banquet is a third Copper, which means that even if you don't have a lot of buys, you can still wait to buy the additional Coppers late in the game.

Also, Counting House may also have gotten a bump from Royal Blacksmith.
Was the Travelling Fair combo found before or after the last list?  Because that one strong combo could be enough to keep it out of the bottom 3 (since, hey, at least there's some times when you really want it).

Keep+Humble Castle
Humble Castle automatically gets you 5 points for Keep, meaning that even if you don't get any other Castles, it's worth at least as much as a Province.  This can lead to a massive first player advantage.  Buying what is effectively a Copper for 6+ VP on turn one may not always be the best choice, but it's still an option that's only available to the first player (or first two players in multiplayer) to take it, and on a weak/sloggish board, or a board where you want Castles anyway, it can be hugely uneven.

Let's Discuss ... / Re: Let's Discuss Landmarks: Tower
« on: September 15, 2016, 10:14:20 pm »
cultist-bm suddenly become, like, a mediocre bm in bm mirrors. beggar-gardens gets a lot more interesting.
Also, cursers will usually give out Confusions instead.  Relatedly, if you have a lot of buys, buying out the Curses for a three-pile in a non-curser game no longer costs you 10 points (and finishing them off in a curser game can actually gain you points if you were losing the curse split).

This can also lead to some interesting tactics with Ambassador: on your last turn, refill a pile your opponent has a lot of. Of course, this only works if you have two copies of the card in question in your hand (or your opponent has Lighthouse or Champion out), so I see it coming up more in puzzles than in actual games.

Another interesting interaction is with Rats.  With Tower, a deck with all of the Rats is worth 20 points, which could lead to a rush strategy with the right support.  Again, I'm not sure how often this will actually be viable, but it's interesting to consider (and pretty funny flavor-wise).

I recently played a Colony game with Governor and Mine and trashed 3 Platinums into Colonies on the final turn.  It was fun using Mine as a patch to make Governor's Province trick (gain a Gold, then remodel it into a Province) work with Colonies (by Mining the Gold into a Platinum before remodeling it).

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Make an attack that dishes out Debt
« on: July 11, 2016, 07:14:32 pm »
Usurer Part 2-$5
Gain a silver, putting it into your hand
Everyone may discard 2 copper. If they do not: gain a copper, putting it in their hand. Each that did gain a debt token.
Usurer part two is not more disastrous for a deck than a kc-d mountebank, I think.
I considered having the Copper be gained to your opponent's hands, but then it's usually the same as if there was no debt and they gained the Copper to their discard because they'll just play the Copper to pay off the debt.  Exceptions (e.g., if you play a handsize attack, if they trash or discard the Copper, if they're drawing their deck so they'd draw the Copper anyway, etc.) are too minor to be worth it.

The issue with handing out debt, is that if I KC a few attacks every turn, I could in principle hand out debt faster than the average payoff of my opponent's deck.  Even worse if my opponent can do the same to me at the same time.  It's better to hand out debt on buy.  In principle, this could cause an opponent to take several turns to buy a card and pay off its debt.  But it cannot pin a deck unless the deck has no payoff whatsoever.

Right, and I think the danger of allowing you to KC the attack unchecked is that if you pile on enough debt, it will take so long to pay off each single bought card that it may as well be a pin.

Good point about KC, although it would be hard to keep it up absent Watchtower or something due to the Silver-gaining.  Maybe change it to:
(4) Action - Attack
Gain a Silver.________________
When you discard this from play, if you have a Silver in play, each other player gains a Copper.  Each player who gained a Copper in this way takes <1>.

That way, it can't be KC-ed.  You could still play several copies a turn (although, again, you'd have to deal with the Silver), but IMO, that's no more of a threat than a Bureaucrat pin.

My only problem with an on-buy debt attack is that an Event that does this already exists (Tax).  While there's room for both (cf. Embargo and Swamp Hag), I'd rather see something different first.

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Make an attack that dishes out Debt
« on: July 10, 2016, 07:18:16 pm »
Here's one that gives out debt directly and works in multiples, but mostly avoids the pin aspects:

(5) Action - Attack
Gain a Silver.
Each other player gains a Copper.  Each player who gained a Copper takes <1>.

I'm not sure about the cost or the Silver-gaining, which may need to be balanced.  The point is that you can't leave your opponent stuck with Debt and no money, because he gets a Copper to pay off his debt; it's not overly easy to stack because it's a non-drawing terminal that gains treasure; and even if you manage to play a bunch, you'll eventually run out of Coppers to hand out. 

IMO, the pin risk is no greater than Bureaucrat, but there will still be plenty of cases where you play two or more (e.g. because you happened to draw two Usurers and a village) so it's different from the -1 Coin token.

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Dominion jokes/pick-up lines
« on: July 01, 2016, 12:38:04 pm »
"I don't understand Catapult.  If I Catapult Estate, it does nothing, if I Catapult Copper, it's a gimped Militia, and Catapulting more expensive cards doesn't seem worth it."

"Catapult Rocks."

"Really? How do I get it to rock? I don't see it."

"That's because you didn't buy enough Catapults. You need to buy all the Catapults to get to Rocks."

"Buy all the Catapults? You mean it has self-synergy, like, I Catapult Catapults?"

"No, Catapult Rocks."

"Okay, it's too good to trash, then; so what do I trash with it? If only there was a way to turn Coppers into Silvers so I could use them."

"But there is a way: Mine."

"And what is your way of turning Coppers into Silvers?"

"I just told you: it's Mine."

"And your strategy is...?"

"My strategy is Mine."

"So that's how you're going to be, huh?  Hoard your strategies for getting Silvers?"

"No, Hoard's my strategy for getting Golds."

"Very well, keep your strategies to yourself, oh, great prince of tactictians!"

"Prince of Tacticians isn't great; in fact, it doesn't work at all."

"You're telling me."

"Yes, I did."

"Fine, then, if you won't tell me how to get expensive treasures to Catapult can you at least suggest a different attack?"


"Let's go with a curser."

"Okay, Witch."

"I don't know, pick any curser."

"I said, Witch."

"No, you didn't. Which is a curser?"


"AAARGH... forget it! Good night!"

"Sir Michael!"

Mini-Set Design Contest / Re: The Contest Set Card List
« on: June 22, 2016, 06:05:24 pm »
We need a new name for Farmer's Market

It's OK, this one doesn't have an apostrophe.
Of course.  While the official "Farmers' Market" refers to a market established by or for farmers, this card refers to farmers carrying out the act of marketing.  Farmers market their crops at the farmers' market.

It's the same thing! Both are correct, since all your cards go back into your deck before scoring, but "you have" is more clear, since it doesn't require you to know that rule.

That rule also made Distant Lands a bit confusing. :)

Indeed. It's too bad Distant Lands wasn't in Prosperity or Empires, then it could have simply been a regular action that was a one-shot take 4 VP tokens.

This is true! There was an Adventures outtake (which you can read about in the secret history) that allowed you to put any card on your Tavern mat, and that would have been a significant difference between a Reserve Distant Lands and a one-shot Distant Lands. But as it stands, I think the only real difference between the two versions is the lack of interaction with Graverobber and Rogue.

And interaction with any things that care about victory type of course. Though the one-shot version could have been action-victory worth 0 I suppose. But people would complain about that.
Also the interaction with Band of Misfits (via Ferry) and Overlord.  As it is, when BoM or Overlord mimics Distant Lands, it moves to your Tavern mat, then immediately reverts to BoM/Overlord, so you don't get the VP.  If Distant Lands trashed itself for VP tokens, BoM or Overlord would be able to mimic that effectively (they'd still revert when they hit the trash, but that wouldn't stop them from carrying out the rest of the on-play ability, i.e., taking the Victory tokens).

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