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9051
Game Reports / Re: Bank over King's Court?
« on: August 25, 2011, 08:24:08 pm »
If the game ended on 1-pile-strong cities (like you said, the 2nd pile to empty was colonies), then I agree, copying more cities really isn't going to help you as much as getting more money (bank). I just assumed this thread was intended to be deeper than that, because that is kind of obvious.

As an aside, I have a feeling this game was misplayed by both people. If you dive headfirst into cities, you should only do so if you can logically empty a 2nd pile quickly so that your cities are strong. Ideally you do this by getting at least a 6-4 city split, then forcing the 2nd pile with some kind of cheap card you can tolerate having many of (say fishing villages, peddlers, worker village, pawn, etc).

If you can't empty the 2nd pile before the major colony/province pile, then you shouldn't go for cities. I have a feeling this is what happened in this game?


All that being said, I think the only conclusion you can reach with this game is that if your deck is already drawing itself, copying more drawing cards isn't as good as just buying more money. But that conclusion should be inherently obvious.

If I thought I was being particularly deep or insightful, I would have posted in Articles. But all I was really doing was "reporting a game". I'm sorry if what I was saying seems obvious, but I'm still learning the game - I didn't know Dominion existed until last month. In my limited experience, King's Court is usually a must-buy, and if your opponent gets a couple before you do, it's not looking good for you. I just thought it was pretty cool that I won without needing a King's Court.

Maybe I shouldn't have spammed the Cities. Maybe the best strategy in the game did involve a King's Court.  Maybe my opponent didn't play very well. Maybe I got lucky. Maybe a better player would have smashed me with Courts. Maybe not. But I'm not disputing any of that. I just thought it was a good game.

9052
Puzzles and Challenges / Re: What's missing now?
« on: August 24, 2011, 08:50:30 pm »
I guess there has to be an implicit stipulation that shenanigans involving Bridge, Quarry, and Princess are excluded from consideration.

Yeah, you're right. That's why Peddler missed the list, but I thought it deserved a mention because it is very common to buy it for $0.

9053
Soldiers' Village $4

+2 Actions

When you play this card, you may reveal the top three cards of your deck.  If you do, discard two, put the other one back on top, then, +1 Card.

Is there a particular reason this is worded this way? Would "If you do, discard two, put the other one in your hand" be exactly the same but more succinct?

9054
Game Reports / Re: Bank over King's Court?
« on: August 24, 2011, 08:44:45 pm »
Okay, a few things I should mention.

My conclusion was certainly not Bank > King's Court. Of course, in most cases King's Court is a much more powerful card than Bank. I wasn't even necessarily saying that Bank was better than King's Court in this game. My conclusion was, the way the game was going, given what I already had in my deck, I benefited much, much more from buying a couple of Banks than I would have from buying King's Courts. And also that King's Court was not the dominant card on the board, which it clearly wasn't, since the guy who bought none beat the guy who bought 3.

The second pile to empty was the Colonies, and I don't think either of us ever bought a Hoard. By the time I had bought the last City, I really had to focus on getting Victory cards, and without buying more Horse Traders (or taking time emptying another pile, which, I don't know, maybe I should have done), the extra cash wouldn't really have helped me much. I was doing quite fine with my 7 Coppers, 1 Silver and 2 Banks, while of course discarding to the Horse Traders.

I'm certainly no expert, and I'm certainly not saying my strategy was the best possible one for the game. All I'm saying is I picked a strategy and stuck to it, even when I inevitably started to fall behind early on; and even what is widely considered to be the best card in the game is still very much dependent on what else is in your deck.

9055
Dominion General Discussion / Re: "Duchy" does not have a 't' in it.
« on: August 24, 2011, 10:44:00 am »
Yes, I find that quite annoying. Dutchy is what I would tend to call someone whose last name is Holland.  :P

9056
Game Reports / Bank over King's Court?
« on: August 24, 2011, 10:40:39 am »
Just played a Colony game which I think is a nice example of King's Court not being the dominant card. The board was:

Bank
King's Court
Hoard
City
Rabble
Horse Traders
Smithy
Tournament
Wishing Well
Woodcutter

Edit: The game in question:

http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20110824-065113-9cbbcdc0.html


My opponent opened Silver/Tournament. I opened Silver/Horse Traders, with the plan that that should get me to $5 often enough to empty the City pile. I bought the last City on turn 12, for a total of 8 Cities. Turn 13 I played 6 of them, resulting in $13, with 2 buys, and the first time I'd hit $7 or more for the game. Normally King's Court makes my first $7+ an obvious choice (unless it's time to buy Victory cards), but I figured with the enormous hand sizes I was now getting, a Bank could pull in some big coin. I would need more buys to spend my money, and I planned on having discardable green cards in the near future, so I bought a Bank and another Horse Traders. Turn 14 I bought another Bank, and a Wishing Well to help me find my Cities.

Turn 16 I played all 8 Cities, my 2 Horse Traders, and my 2 Banks for $9 and $10. I bought 3 Colonies.
Turn 17, 2 more Colonies.

Now my opponent had bought an early Province or 2, and now had Trusty Steed, Princess and Followers, and was regularly King's Courting, usually with either Rabble or Tournament, although once with Followers. He was not doing too badly, and at one point caught up to my score with only 1 Colony left.

But a few turns later, I bought the last Colony, and my only Province, to finish the game 67-51.

So the game was close. It was essentially my 8 Cities, 2 Banks and 2 Horse Traders against his 3 King's Courts, 2 Tournaments and various prizes.

Of course my deck would have benefited from a King's Court or 2. But all it would really do would be to make it even more certain that I could draw my whole (quite large) deck, and I was doing that without them.

The point is, my Cities/Banks/Horse Traders proved to at least match, if not exceed the King's Courts. And had I bought King's Courts instead of Banks, I almost certainly would have lost. Also, when he bought his first King's Court when there were still 6 Cities left, it could have scared me into buying Silvers and Golds so I could afford a King's Court. But I stuck to my guns, and it paid off.

I guess it just goes to show, picking a good strategy and sticking to it goes a long way towards winning games, and sometimes the "4th worst $6+ card" can be a much better buy than the "best $6+ card".

9057
Right, of course. I missed that bit.

9058
Puzzles and Challenges / Re: What's missing now?
« on: August 24, 2011, 04:04:48 am »
I thought about Venture, but playing Venture itself only gives you +$1. It then makes you play another card or cards, buts it's these other cards that give you the rest. When you play a Bank, sure it depends on other cards (as do others on the list), but all the money you're getting is from the Bank card.

It's all about buying, rather than gaining, and the prizes can't be bought. Also, the way I worded it was specifically to exclude Diadem and Trusty Steed (and Philosopher's Stone) from the list.

9059
Homestead $2
+1 Card, +1 Action
You may gain a Homestead or an Estate

I like it the idea of building up a mass of essentially no-effect cards before clean-sweeping the Estates in one go. It could be an interesting game of chicken if both players decide to go for them: both players want the Estates, but don't want to clog up their deck too early.

I assume once the Homesteads are gone, you can choose to take a Homestead and therefore nothing?

9060
Puzzles and Challenges / Re: What's missing now?
« on: August 24, 2011, 02:09:10 am »
The honourable mentions (except Peddler) are cards which can be played for +$ equal to but not greater than the cost of buying the card. Lighthouse costs $2 and gives you a total of +$2, but across 2 turns, so I thought it deserved a mention, but not to same extent as Baron and Embargo.

9061
Puzzles and Challenges / Re: What's missing now?
« on: August 23, 2011, 06:58:52 pm »
Hmm. Maybe Cards that can produce enough coins to buy themselves?

That's almost the answer.
The list is: all cards that can be played for +$ greater than the cost of buying the card.
If the list was a little shorter than it is, I may have changed this slightly to include Baron and Embargo.

9062
Puzzles and Challenges / Re: What's missing now?
« on: August 23, 2011, 04:15:42 pm »
Congrats to Thisisnotasmile and AJD. The answer is plain old Copper. Anyone care to explain why?

9063
Puzzles and Challenges / Re: What's missing now?
« on: August 23, 2011, 09:07:17 am »
Well done. Baron and Embargo are honourable mentions. Another is Peddler. A semi-honourable mention is Lighthouse. So then what is the one other card that can join the list?

9064
Puzzles and Challenges / Re: What's missing now?
« on: August 23, 2011, 08:55:30 am »
That's right, none of the cards mentioned so far can be added to the list.

9065
Puzzles and Challenges / Re: What's missing now?
« on: August 23, 2011, 08:22:05 am »
You're kind of on the right track, but there are reasons why all of your answers miss out. It seems quite obvious what the connection is here, but it's a little more subtle than that. I'll give the honourable mentions in the next couple of days.

9066
Puzzles and Challenges / What's missing now?
« on: August 23, 2011, 07:46:23 am »
This is an unashamed rip-off of AJD's thread "What's missing?"

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=504.0

I hope you don't mind.

Which Dominion card completes this list?

Secret Chamber
Pirate Ship
Salvager
Trade Route
Vault
Bank

9067
Puzzles and Challenges / Re: What's missing?
« on: August 22, 2011, 10:15:07 am »
I misread Horn of Plenty. It definitely doesn't deserve to be there.

Yeah, I was about to say if Horn of Plenty deserves a mention, Forge must even more so.
But both make you at least gain a copper if one is available.

9068
Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Impossible score, version two
« on: August 18, 2011, 11:13:54 am »
I think the next question has to be: how big a score can you get with VP tokens included? Obviously we need to either exclude Monument or limit the number of turns, but either way there must be some finite limit.

I'm not going to do any maths right now, but a starting point would be buying 10 Goons and 9 Village types, and getting 10 VP per card remaining, then Bishoping them away...

Actually, on second thoughts, Bishoping your cards would probably lose more Garden points than it would gain, and there's also the possibility of playing a Bishop with nothing else in your hand, which should probably not be allowed for the sake of this question...

9069
Dominion Articles / Re: Request: Diadem
« on: August 17, 2011, 10:41:54 am »
All prizes have 0.0 buys/deck because you can't buy them. It's the gains that you need to look at.

Thanks. Edited.

9070
Dominion Articles / Request: Diadem
« on: August 17, 2011, 10:17:18 am »
Can someone please explain Diadem to me? I don't think I've ever seen it taken, and certainly all the other Tournament Prizes seem a lot more useful. What kind of (good) deck is going to have a bunch of spare actions that will make Diadem either better than any other remaining prize, or better than a Duchy given that the game has gone on long enough for all the other prizes to be taken? To me it seems like it would normally be a silver, sometimes a gold, rarely 4 or 5, but even then you'd rather be spending your actions on cards that will benefit you more by more than $1/action. And because there's only one, it doesn't seem possible to build a viable strategy around it.

I also notice that the Council Room popular buys page has Diadem at 0.0 buys/deck for which it's available:

http://councilroom.com/popular_buys

This is because you don't buy it, you gain it. Though its gains are significantly lower than the other prizes:

Trusty Steed: 0.35
Followers: 0.31
Princess: 0.26
Bag of Gold: 0.19
Diadem: 0.11

Does anyone consider it a worthwhile prize? If so, do you have any examples of effectively incorporating it into an already-made deck?

9071
Game Reports / Re: Dear My Opponent: I am Sorry
« on: August 17, 2011, 05:12:54 am »
Here's a better Torturer run.  ;D

http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20110816-195801-745c9500.html

I Tortured 16 times, including 5 in one turn, 3 in one, and a couple of 2s. I finally won the game when my opponent took the last Curse, with Torturers and Villages already gone.

He finished with 9 Curses.

9072
Game Reports / Re: Dear My Opponent: I am Sorry
« on: August 17, 2011, 05:02:17 am »
Just had my house mate rage quit on me in real life. I had Chapeled everything except action cards, and had a Village chain going (Some were Cities, but no piles had gone). I was drawing my deck almost every turn, which contained 3 Mountebanks, and also a couple of Bridges. He had decided against buying Mountebanks in favour of Cities and Festivals, had been trashing with a Lookout, and bought a couple of Estates to support his Baron. Suddenly, after I Mountebanked him for about the 9th, 10th and 11th times, he stood up and said "I quit! There's no point playing if you're going to draw all your cards every turn." And he started packing up the cards.

We've both got into Dominion in the past month or so, and have been playing nearly every day. Although I'm now wondering if he'll play with me again any time soon...  :-\

9073
Dominion General Discussion / Re: History in the making
« on: August 17, 2011, 01:42:14 am »
Did you take blackmarket into the calculation  ;)

Nope. Only considering the 10 supply Kingdom Card decks (ignoring the possibility of an 11th). If a card is in one game, and in the Black Market the next game, I would consider them different games with respect to that card.

9074
Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Can you beat the Lucky Chancellor ?
« on: August 13, 2011, 02:32:07 am »
What you should do is find someone in real life, and challenge them to a game where you choose the kingdom, and they can only buy Chancellor, treasure and victory cards, but can choose the order of both decks every time either is shuffled, and see if you can beat them.

9075
Dominion General Discussion / Re: History in the making
« on: August 11, 2011, 11:30:11 pm »
And yes, I realise Young Witch makes things more complicated. If you want to work it out taking her into account, be my guest. :)

Also, feel free to check my maths and correct me if I'm wrong.

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