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Messages - iguanaiguana

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101
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
« on: September 27, 2021, 12:56:27 pm »
-snip-

My read on EFHW has changed.  -snip-

You've mentioned this several times, but where in the thread, before you were at X-1, can we even see that? Mostly what I've seen is that you defended EFHW and EFHW defended you.

102
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
« on: September 27, 2021, 12:55:06 pm »
Considering that Joth may be scum is one of the things that makes me feel good about a gkrieg exile today because I do think they could be partners. In that, if Joth is scum, his partners would have been much more likely to be on the math wagon yesterday. And we would also be looking for someone who continued to push Math over Joth the following day. And gkrieg is the main person who fits that description.

Exiling someone because you think another non-flipped person is scummy is also not a great reason.

That is a minor point about you. I thought you were scummy when I was closer to null on Joth as well.

103
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
« on: September 27, 2021, 12:53:50 pm »
Finally at a computer and able to look at the game carefully. It looks like gkrieg is about to be hammered?


Ugh, I just posted something long in relation to this post and then closed the window... stupid PPEs.

Anyway, it is easy for someone to change their reads. Everyone posts townie and scummy things, so you just cherrypick one of their posts and say it has changed your reads. Especially when there haven't been many flips.

At that point, math still hadn't done anything that screamed town to me, and a vote on someone is better than no vote.

Okay, so I see here you actually did respond to my read of you, actually you did twice now because I called you out for not doing that. But to me, the issue is--yes it's easy to fake changing your reads, but also it's even easier to fake keeping your reads the same when you don't even give reasons for any of those reads. And that was your D2 up to the point that you got pressure on you.

It's absurd for you in a way to be arguing that all of the cases against you are so flimsy. The cases on you are based on very little because you said very little until you had four votes on you. But that in itself is scummy.

My read on EFHW has changed. You are taking only my read on mathdude as not changing.

What do you think about any of my recent posts? Do they not matter?

I think they matter less unfortunately because they were written under pressure and I think you can create something convincing under pressure when necessary. I also didn't see anything in there that surprised me or caused me to re-assess my opinion on how you are seeing things this game.

104
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
« on: September 27, 2021, 12:51:59 pm »
I'm not willing to vote gkrieg. And I think his wagon is scummy.

I'm really surprised there was no response from mathdude about my comments on his wall post.

I don't like my options here. I know we're all about consolidating, but if math isn't going to be an option then I'm leaning toward faust or Didds or MiX or Jimmmmm.

Reply to wall post... sort of.

I didn't think there was much there to respond to... the only main issue you seemed to have was that I skipped stuff and you thought I skipped the good stuff. There was a lot of posts I was quoting and responding to doing the reread. I had to pick some to skip. I kept the ones that stood out to me as I skimmed through. Even 1 or 2 of the long ones, I snipped, yes. I admit (and admitted at the time), I don't/didn't have a closed, condemning case. I was just providing my thoughts as I reread. Of course we would see the importance of some statements differ. That's part of the game.

My point was that you took a post with helpful content, snipped that content, and then presented what was left as an example of an unhelpful post.

And Math's point is that he found me wordy (true) and snipped out half of my post because he felt it was repetitive. If you look back on his comments, he wasn't cutting out a portion of my case so as to make it look like a weaker case. He was highlighting a portion of my reread of Joth because he wanted to highlight that I was townreading Joth and that we could be buddies.

To me, it makes sense that Math would have been suspicious of me because 1) I pushed his wagon all of D1 and 2) I pushed against Joth's wagon D1. Joth was the main D1 alternative wagon to him, so people who both rejected that wagon and pushed his wagon are going to look scummy to him.

So yeah at first when I looked at what you called the snipping distortion that you pointed out, I thought it looked bad. But actually... He never said I didn't give reasons. He accused me of buddying Joth. And if buddying Joth was what he was seeing, there was evidence for that both in the part he snipped and the part he left.

105
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
« on: September 27, 2021, 12:35:25 pm »
I am starting to become worried about Joth. MiX has mentioned scumslips from Joth and this one was brought up:

I think all three scum are active and they’re just, idk, good at the game.

I really think Swowl is likely to be scum. But in the name of consolidation I’m moving to vote: mathdude who I at least think is more likely to be scum than gkrieg.

I would also switch to faust if that got viable. He’s being intentionally obtuse about this gkrieg/Swowl thing in a way that I don’t think town!faust does unless he knows something.


As for the TvT thing I think I just got swept up in a shorthand everyone else was using without really thinking about it. It was somewhat unclear I’ll admit.

So if I'm parsing MiX right, this is a scumslip because Joth says in (in one frame of mind) "all three scum are active and good at the game" -- He's telling a truth here at least about himself. He's proud of his high activity scum play, which is markedly different from many (but not all) of his scum games and considers that he's playing this game well so far.

Then he slips back into his deception mode, and considers what his fake scumreads should be. He lands on Swowl, who he feels others think should be scummy. And doesn't notice that he's made a contradiction in that he just said "all three scum are active" and switched to calling his top scumread, who has not been at all active.

So if that is actually a scumslip, it's sort of a convoluted one? But it's one that I can at least understand, which is more than I can say about many scumslip arguments.

Considering that Joth may be scum is one of the things that makes me feel good about a gkrieg exile today because I do think they could be partners. In that, if Joth is scum, his partners would have been much more likely to be on the math wagon yesterday. And we would also be looking for someone who continued to push Math over Joth the following day. And gkrieg is the main person who fits that description.

106
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
« on: September 27, 2021, 12:15:23 pm »
Finally at a computer and able to look at the game carefully. It looks like gkrieg is about to be hammered?


Ugh, I just posted something long in relation to this post and then closed the window... stupid PPEs.

Anyway, it is easy for someone to change their reads. Everyone posts townie and scummy things, so you just cherrypick one of their posts and say it has changed your reads. Especially when there haven't been many flips.

At that point, math still hadn't done anything that screamed town to me, and a vote on someone is better than no vote.

Okay, so I see here you actually did respond to my read of you, actually you did twice now because I called you out for not doing that. But to me, the issue is--yes it's easy to fake changing your reads, but also it's even easier to fake keeping your reads the same when you don't even give reasons for any of those reads. And that was your D2 up to the point that you got pressure on you.

It's absurd for you in a way to be arguing that all of the cases against you are so flimsy. The cases on you are based on very little because you said very little until you had four votes on you. But that in itself is scummy.

107
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
« on: September 26, 2021, 08:55:44 pm »
Also people keep scumreading me when I am busy IRL and so rushing through my posts. So just keep that in mind people who are scumreading me

108
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
« on: September 26, 2021, 08:54:06 pm »
I'm turning out to basically not have time to play today. Girieg said something like there is no case on him, but when he quoted my case on him he quoted only the part where I voted and ignored my actual reread of him where I gave reasons and didn't respond to any of that.

So I am happy to still be voting gkrieg.

People are saying something about WCD being scum and us being buddies and that does not make sense to me at all.

109
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
« on: September 26, 2021, 12:52:02 pm »
I dislike Faust calling the Swowl wagon stupid quite a bit but I still prefer gkrieg today.

110
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
« on: September 26, 2021, 12:46:40 pm »
I think all three scum are active and they’re just, idk, good at the game.

I really think Swowl is likely to be scum. But in the name of consolidation I’m moving to vote: mathdude who I at least think is more likely to be scum than gkrieg.

I would also switch to faust if that got viable. He’s being intentionally obtuse about this gkrieg/Swowl thing in a way that I don’t think town!faust does unless he knows something.


As for the TvT thing I think I just got swept up in a shorthand everyone else was using without really thinking about it. It was somewhat unclear I’ll admit.

The top of this post is a contradiction, no? Swowl is not active

111
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
« on: September 25, 2021, 11:54:07 am »
Really want to watch Portuguese Monty python but no time and I'm back to VLA

112
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
« on: September 25, 2021, 11:53:36 am »
Swowl saying most frustrating he's ever played seems like a suspicious hyperbole - would like to hear more about thst

113
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
« on: September 25, 2021, 11:51:24 am »
If this turns out to be town!math, then I will have more insight into how to read him, I think.

I think I'm going to have to go with my scumread and if I'm wrong I'll make adjustments in the future.

If that turns out to be the case anyway, I will know that for the future.

I don't like this at all from EFHW; it's like she's pre-empting a misexile. Maybe someone can tell me if this is just a thing she says all the time, but the fact that she said it three times in a relatively short space of time indicates she really wanted to emphasise it and take pressure off of herself for having a read.
I kept saying that because Didds and iguana had both said this is town!math.

No one commented on the distortions I found. The snipping and then mischaracterizing was the most serious to me.

Thank you for posting those! Helped me understand where you're coming from better. No real time to respond atm though

114
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
« on: September 23, 2021, 09:00:15 pm »
I'm going VLA for the next two days starting basically now.

I'm probably not going to post at all. I'm celebrating my wife's birthday on a weekend trip and she's not going to be keen on me checking mafia at that time.


115
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
« on: September 23, 2021, 08:37:48 pm »
I do think 2.7 is the towniest of the less active players. His read on Joth as being town because Joth is playing "a very open unafraid game" matches my own gut read of Joth. And the cases he is making are all making sense to me. The thing he pointed out about faust here:

Reading faust was most enjoyable. He was fun, charming, and full of wonderful anecdotes that inspire the rest of us to play the game of mafia better.

I also think there is a decent chance that he is scum.

Consider this from D1:

Okay faust, what are the reasons we should believe you're Town?
Well, I have done townie things. I think I am more contrarian when I am town, and thus often attract more votes as town than I do as scum, and I think you can see that in my play.

The three players I have voted for (joth, iguana, Jimmmmm) have all since ended up on the EFHW wagon, so unless you think that is completely town-driven, I have already voted for scum. If you do think that the EFHW wagon is completely town-driven, then it is probably beneficial to join that wagon rather than start a new one on me.

This sounds nice and everything, but those three votes happened in his first 13 posts (joth-iguana-joth-jimmm votes), and that early one of those could very well have been a vote on a partner.  So while it sounds super neat and all, it is a total deflection that a casual reader takes as a townie point for faust. I think it is scummy.

I could quote more, but he has been quite the prolific poster, so I will settle for this one example. I am going to go back and reevaluate mathdude, lets see where that takes me.

I thought was quite insightful, and the sort of thing that I would never notice trying to reread faust and look for any signs of scum. But I also think that point is pretty small in the totality of the game to where it's not a huge thing pushing me to think faust is actually scum here.

116
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
« on: September 23, 2021, 08:27:58 pm »
Looking at Faust again.

The anticipation is killing me

Don't wait up. I'm not finishing until I get some sleep

Still holding my breath.

Ok, so, this post is going to be kind of a doozy but here goes.

I believe you voted me / are still scum reading because you believe that I fabricated a vote on faust as a sort of scum tactic to see if anyone else was interested in voting him / to get rid of him / whatever.

But the real reason I voted faust is much more complicated than that and is related to like every game of mafia I've ever played.

Basically, I have a faust complex. And it stems from the fact that I think faust is, hands down, the best player on the site. I used to think it was faust and gkrieg and Galzria and Ashersky and Lalight and Robz that were all really really good and he was up there with them, but I now think he's the best, hands down. No insult to anyone else, it's just my opinion and I don't even know who else shares it. 

At the same time, true or not, I think of myself as one of the worst mafia players on the site. And it can be attested to in the fact that I often have bad reads, that my winrate has never even approached 50%, that the only game I ever got MVP I was a survivor just having to do the one thing I'm good at which is surviving to the end.

And ever since I started playing, I had issues with faust basically. Because in my very first game, I actually had really good reads, and I thought faust was scum for most of the game, and he was a mafia traitor hider. And I was a loud jailkeeper. And I tried to jailkeep him, but he was hiding, so he still got to do the factional kill. And that misled me to think he couldn't be the killer (last scum left) and I chose that it was not him and it was him and I lost for town. And I felt faust was scum but I was a newbie and couldn't really convince people enough to get him exiled and that game was really rough.

And then the next game I played, faust and I were both scum together. And as soon as I saw that I was scum, my heart sank, and when I saw that faust was my partner, this guy who had stomped me in the last game, my heart sank even further. And as a result I just could not play scum at all and I lurked really hard, played really different from my first game where I was super active town, and faust... I don't remember exactly what he ended up doing. I think he honestly ended up bussing me out of the game, but still lost due to having partnery interactions with me before the bussing, and it was just a really rough game. But my take-away from that game was, faust is amazing and I suck and I ruined the game for him.

And ever since that second game, I've sort of had a faust complex because both of those games were kind of rough.

And then in Lost mafia, I don't really remember how it went exactly, but faust and I were scum together and I ended up being the mafia goon who got volunteered to be the one to claim poisoner, so as a result I was just insta-gibbed on D3 when the first poisoning took effect. So that was another game that cemented my faust complex of feeling like: faust is really good at this, and he's really good at scum AND town, and you are just bad scum and stupid town and not worth very much because you're the sacrificial lamb this game. (side note: posting the memes was cool.)

And there was another game, I don't remember which, where faust was scum and I was town and I remember that it went all the way to Lylo and I had to choose between faust and Robz. And I remember that I was actually leaning faust, but then I saw Robz check the thread at a weird time and I got paranoid that he was checking the thread to do a quick scum!hammer, and I voted Robz and then faust and Calamitas voted Robz and I singlehandedly lost the game for town because I backed off my scumread on faust. And that was sort of a crushing game and I think one of the last ones I played.

And then in Oz mafia, I came back and I townread faust THE WHOLE GAME and then he was scum and he stomped our team and we lost. And I repeated a lot of the stupid mistakes I can remember myself making throughout my mafia tenure that I kind of told myself, I'm not coming back making those mistakes again. So I had sort of come back thinking, I'm going to get over my faust complex and other issues that I used to have when playing mafia, and then that super didn't happen, and yeah here I am.

So when I was sitting here in this game throwing my hands up in the air and voting faust becaus (at the time) I didn't have any strong scum reads, it's because I honestly was/am very jaded about trying to read faust. I just read him backwards. I've done it a bunch of times. And I'm at the point where I've given up on trying to find alignment indicative stuff from him because I feel like he plays on a level that I would like to but cannot achieve.

OKAY FINALLY -- Faust is a great guy! He's super nice outside of mafia and he even is nice and careful about what he says inside of mafia. And I recognize that my issues with him are my own issues and not his fault in any way. But, they do exist and sometimes they make me vote for him when it doesn't make sense.

All that to say, I'm currently over it. Yes, faust could be scum, but I've looked around more and have some other leads and I am OK with voting those leads at this time.

SO -- Yes, I read some of faust's posts last night, before falling asleep. No, I didn't find anything particularly informative from them! And I've just decided, I'm not going to reread the rest of faust right now, because I don't think it's the most productive thing to do right now, and after reading through gkrieg I am much happier with that vote anyway.

117
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
« on: September 23, 2021, 08:03:20 pm »
I can post the distortions if people want me to. I didn't want to add a wall post unnecessarily.

Do it!!

You can always snip his quotes so that the post is smaller.

118
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
« on: September 23, 2021, 06:05:52 pm »
It doesn't help that so much of his D1 is a giant fight with Jim that felt like a big bag of null from Faust. Townie from Jim though

119
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
« on: September 23, 2021, 06:04:37 pm »
Looking at Faust again.

The anticipation is killing me

Don't wait up. I'm not finishing until I get some sleep

Still holding my breath.

Yep, I read faust, did not find anything super scummy, and concluded it was not the right exile for today. I have some thoughts on him that I can write up later when I get one last chance to use a computer before I go VLA.

I don't really regret the vote, which I said was a PoE vote anyway. It attracted votes to me, which may be useful to look at later. And I still see no reason why Faust couldn't be scum. I'm just null on him and moving on for now.

120
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
« on: September 23, 2021, 03:23:02 pm »
@MiX stop asking Awaclus questions, and now I have to go.

121
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
« on: September 23, 2021, 03:22:29 pm »
Okay, Gkrieg reread is the only one I have time for since it's going to be so short:

So his first several posts are meta-related. In a way that just reflects where we were at that stage of the game, but it's also worth noting that it's incredibly easy for scum to give that type of participation and nothing more.

so anyway faust is town & Didds is town & MiX is ??? but he's being pleasant and helpful.

idk, nobody's pinging me overmuch, which makes sense because none of you are terrible at this game.

Vote: EFHW
Wait a minute - are you salty too?
Because there can't be anything in the current game that is scummy.

This doesn't seem like scum!EFHW. Too bold.

To me, this seems potentially scummy. Partially because I am scumreading EFHW but also because it doesn't strike me as a particularly bold post that you could form a townread off of that. It does look like gkrieg and EFHW could be partners.

Still haven’t reread. I have just been reading things while I have time. Nothing has convinced me that mathdude is not scum yet.

Vote: mathdude

This is basically gkrieg's only contribution to D2. Just want to say, it is hard to fake changing your reads. Especially so if you are busy and having trouble keeping up as scum. But it is incredibly easy to just post a read, give a reason, then stick with that for the entire game. And that is what gkrieg is doing here so far.

Also, while I initially was townreading gkrieg for his case on Math, I think that because Math is an easy player to pick on, he's an easy target. So I can see the scum narrative there too in terms of trying to pick a town player as scum who looks scummy in order to have a case and look town. And then you naturally end up on someone who is misexiled often.

So, to me, it's not just gkrieg lurking. It's also the content of the lurking.

122
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
« on: September 23, 2021, 03:10:38 pm »
snip

See the post above.

Your case felt like the sort of case scum would think up overnight. It is a classic scum case that lets you push an exile without really committing to a scum read. And the fact that it blatantly contradicted your day 1 post about how towny I was being (and that you didn't mention that until you were called out on it) just made it seem even more fake and made up.

I think your case has some merit, and that's why I was questioning Swowl as well at the start of the day because his position EoD1 looked absurd to me.

But ultimately he did give his reasons for why he voted for each wagon at each point and it seems like maybe you are ignoring that.

1)  He didn't call you "towny" but "too skummy to be skum," which I guess is another way of saying suspicious but probably not actually scum. So to say he went from townreading you to voting you is a bit disingenuous.

2) When he voted you instead of Math, he's explained that pretty thoroughly. Since his initial post, two of his TRs pushed you and 1 of his scumreads pushed Math. So that changed the decision making.

3) I think it must be noted that your case is OMGUS. OMGUS isn't always wrong, but there's that.

All that to say, what I find suspicious about Swowl is that he came, gave all those responses, then bailed and has gotten away with not participating much in D2 so far. That could be a sign of someone who is having trouble participating with things not directly related to them because of being scum.

123
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
« on: September 23, 2021, 02:55:01 pm »
So joth, you don't like lurker exiles except for when you get to choose the lurker?

Swowl lurked through day 1, but for well-explained RL reasons, then showed up on Day 2 and did explicitly scummy things.

gkrieg has just lurked throughout and now scum is seeing an easy misexile that won't stick to them.

Also I don't really like my you-and-mix scum theory well enough to commit to it at this juncture.

I obv cannot argue day 1 lurk.
But what did I do earlier this day that was skummy to you exactly?

Pretty sure all of my contribution was the whole math/Joth bit.

How about lurking D2?

124
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
« on: September 23, 2021, 02:51:25 pm »
What I see is a player who is super-laser-focused on how other people read him. To the extent that a lot of his votes are OMGUS spurred. And I know enough of his meta to know that he was doing this in Oz as well, at the very least, and as town. I don't agree with the methodology but I don't see it as scum either.

125
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
« on: September 23, 2021, 02:50:00 pm »
I think EFHW is scummy. Her pushing Math is a lot like her pushing pubby. She's picking on someone whose ideas she can see as wrong, and arguing that makes them scum. I don't know if she does that as town but I know she does that as scum.

I'm surprised. You yourself noted that his narrative was problematic. I always scumread any post that seems to be distorting what really happened. It can be a sign of trying to mislead town or a sign of having trouble posting as scum. I can't dismiss everything in that post as "just town!math being town!math." If that turns out to be the case anyway, I will know that for the future.

Can you show me where you see that he is distorting what really happened? Also, how many games have you played with Math before?

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