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Messages - Chris is me

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2176
Help! / Re: Which mistake (turn 4 or turn 8) hurt me the most?
« on: November 05, 2015, 01:38:03 pm »
Even going for Minion, I think Junk Dealer on Turn 4 would have been probably the best move. It's still early enough that you could benefit from more trashing, especially non terminal trashing, and thinner decks can buy Minions faster. But I don't think buying Gold was like a mistake that cost you the game or anything, I mean it's not a huge misstep and at least you can use it to pick up Minion, then later Farmland it.

The turn 8 fuckup is what did you in. Don't buy Farmland without thinking! You just undid 1-2 turns of trashing! You should have trashed an Estate and Copper with Steward. You really want to trash with Steward as often as you can, just using the other abilities occasionally or when you're out of junk to clear.

2177
I find it interesting that Raze is below Ratcatcher apparently. I feel like Raze is stronger:

- it is a faster trasher. Ratcatcher needs two turn to take effect.
- Raze is a bit worse at trashing Copper, granted. I don't think that's huge.
- on the other hand, Raze is better for trashing Estates.
- both remove themselves from your deck when no longer needed. But Raze gives a benefit when doing that.
- Raze has some mid- to late-game utility, Ratcatcher doesn't.

i think my favorite part about Raze is that when you trash it, it becomes a sifting cantrip so you don't even reduce your hand size. I'm a big fan of Raze; not as strong as Forager but there are a lot of games where I would pick up 2 of them.

Mostly sort of agree with the middle of the pack here. Readying my pitchforks just in case people have managed to hype Page all the way to #1 though.

Alms is excellent - it really speeds up the game. It's effect is kind of neutral since it gives everyone the benefit "for free" but it's such a good card that totally changes how Dominion works.

2178
Magpie.  Always Magpie.

Always put your tokens on Magpie!!! (Or to a lesser extent, Port).

Tokens are huge. Use them! A lot!

Gear is really, really, really good.

2179
Dominion General Discussion / Re: 5 cost treasures
« on: November 05, 2015, 08:32:51 am »
This is far from trivial, but all of these have plenty of alternatives. Workshop used to be consistently undervalued by the community because they were all trained to go +buy when you could get a lot of the function of 2 from Wshop more effectively. Smoothing out coin can be done by having many options for cards (e.g. a rich engine environment with Hunting grounds, Smithy, Bazaar, and Wandering Minstrel), but returning cards to deck (e.g. Count, Courtyard), banking coin tokens, and a few other odds and ends. Scoring VP, well that is harder, but with some TfB, Goons, Monument, Opost, alt-VP, and a few other tricks this is also doable.

Obviously there are a few niche cards that will help you pick up components, gain Duchies, or take VP chips, but +Buy is a lot more common than those, and you can just consider those effectively "Virtual +Buy" for the sake of this discussion if it really helps you. The point I'm making is without +Buy (or these other things), in the absence of other payload engines are often just not viable. You either need +Buy / gaining to build an engine quickly enough to use it, or you need +Buy to have a payload of more than one Province a turn, for an engine to be viable. Many exceptions to this rule do exist, I know, but usually that involves a payload similar to "1 Province per turn + a strong Attack per turn" or the engine on the board is easier to build than anything else.

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If you mean +action to be villages, sure, but villages are often overrated. If by +actions you mean anything with +1 or more actions on it and then ones that are effectively that (e.g. Tr, Prssn, Kc, Rc), then no.

Okay, you go ahead and try and build an engine with terminal draw and no Villages. Lemme know how that goes for you. I mean, ignoring Village Idiot scenarios where new players buy several Villages instead of real cards out of a pathological fear of any terminal collision ever, Villages are really important and their scarcity often is the sole determining factor in the viability of an engine.

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Again look at the knights. Dame Molly is +2 actions and costs $5. Sir Marten is $4 with +2 buys. Of all the bonuses, why is +buy on the cheap Knight if not for balance?

Worker's village vs Bazaar suggest that +1 buy is worth less than $1 coin. Wv vs Lost City likewise suggests that 1 card is worth more than 1 buy.

I don't think you understand how cost works in Dominion at all, actually. Cost is only somewhat correlated with card strength. Cost in Dominion is saying how accessible the card should be, not how important it is. Cost dictates when you can buy a card - you can buy $2s at nearly any time, $4s you can only take one of in the first shuffle, $5s usually take a shuffle to obtain, etc. Cards with lower cost are easier to obtain multiple copies of, etc. For example, Chapel is one of the strongest cards in the game, but it costs $2. Why? Because it should be accessible to every player on either turn of their first shuffle, and because buying multiple Chapel doesn't make any sense. Does this mean heavy trashing is the worst strategy in the game, and is less important than looking at the top of your deck and removing Victory cards? Hell no.

Cards that give extra Buys are less important in the very early game and thus you're already dissuaded from purchasing them early. If you don't have an extra buy, they might as well cost everything in your hand, so cards you only need to buy early can cost nothing since their "real" cost is the use of your only Buy. And once you have them, it's only occasionally that you need to stack up a ton of extra Buys. This is why a lot of +Buy cards aren't expensive, not because they aren't important, but because when you need extra Buys you're spending all of your Buy phase resources on the card anyway, and because there's less benefit to spamming many +Buy cards than spamming +Cards cards.

Cards that give +Cards cost more, because you want a lot of them, especially in an engine which is more likely to have cards with +Buy, so the cost plays more of a factor in ensuring their scarcity.

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+buy is great for engines, but it is not close to necessary to engines.

Engines need payload to be worth it. Ultimately, in many circumstances, engines take longer to set up than terminal draw Big Money takes to fire up, so you need some incentive to build an engine. The use of an Attack every turn plus VP gaining every turn is one way to do it. Gaining multiple Provinces a turn through +Buy is another. Being able to set up the engine quickly with gaining / +Buy can offset the speed advantage terminal draw BM has. In that sense, I've looked at many boards, seen a lack of +Buy / way to gain multiple cards a turn, and concluded "I can't get the engine to work" nearly as often as I've done the same due to a lack of Villages.

2180
Dominion General Discussion / Re: 5 cost treasures
« on: November 04, 2015, 10:36:23 am »
Contraband is useful for the +buy (particularly if you have multiple options like 4 viable engine components and Fairgrounds to complement Provinces), but +buy is so weak that Sir Martin gets 2 of them and costs $4. The edge between Contraband and Gold (or Silver) just isn't that huge.

While Contraband sucks, I don't think you can understate +Buy's importance. +Buy is almost more important than +Action for engines, it's a fairly rare asset, and it can really increase the speed of the game. The problem with Contraband is that you can basically never get a Province with it in play, which is kind of the point of the extra buy for a lot of engines in the end game...

2181
I think we are under rating scouting party. It is often a good buy to cycle, especially with these new travellers.

Let's be real, the word "Scout" is a mental block that many won't ever get past.

Scouting Party really isn't very good, but I buy it more than most of these other 2s just for the cycling or for clearing top of deck junk.

2182
Quest isn't THAT bad, guys. It's a nice way to speed up games where you're full of junk, and it gives Sea Hag a reason to exist after the Curses are gone (though Quest itself drives you away from Curse). I certainly like it better than Moat.

2183
Goko Dominion Online / Re: Latest Release
« on: November 04, 2015, 08:08:32 am »
I don't know if you guys have played the new version yet, but the log is readable, matchmaking actually works, the fastest setting is the quickest official Dominion implementation since the days of Isotropic, and in general I'm really quite satisfied with the new client.

Do you know cool it is for your opponent to overpay for Masterpiece and you don't have to see even a single Silver animate?

2184
Recently i had some fun buying Messenger with Trader in hand. Two Silvers for me and a Curse for my opponents, weee!

That's not how Messenger works.  You can Trader the Messenger itself, since it's a when-buy ability, but if you Trader the thing you're handing out to everyone, then no one else gains a copy of it, because you didn't gain a copy yourself.

I know that is what the rules say, but I don't understand this semantically. The card doesn't say "if you do" anywhere, so I don't see why failing to gain something affects what your opponents gain. I'm sure I'm just reading the card wrong, and obviously the rules trump my semantic reading of the card text.

2185
Dominion League / Re: Season 11 - Results
« on: November 02, 2015, 07:59:37 pm »
AHoppy 3 - 2 Chris is me

4-2, actually. AHoppy is too modest. :)

2186
Dominion League / Re: Season 11 - Announcing Livestreams
« on: November 02, 2015, 06:31:20 pm »

2187
Saw this tournament for weeks on the forum, always sad that I lived in Connecticut and would never get to go to something like this. Well, I was just put on a work assignment where I'll be moving out to Michigan for two months, so apparently I'll be here. Sweet. Looking forward to it!

See, my first though was "wait, but UConn is in Connecticut..."

That is always my first thought.  And my second thought is "Terrific!  I live fairly close to UConn."  And then my third thought is "Wait, this doesn't work nearly as well as I thought."

I had the same thought as well at first. If only there *was* an official Dominion championship at UConn. Or anywhere in New England at all. (How would one go about setting one up, anyway?)

Unfortunately I've learned that I won't be put on the work assignment that would bring me to Michigan after all. So I'll have to miss this event :(

2188
Dominion League / Re: Season 11 - Announcing Livestreams
« on: November 02, 2015, 03:45:35 pm »
At 6 PM EST (that's now GMT -5), I'll be streaming a match against AHoppy. Link in the signature; I'll post again when the match is starting.

EDIT: This has been delayed until 6:30.

2189
Dominion General Discussion / Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition
« on: November 02, 2015, 02:59:17 pm »
I didn't finish my lists - I assume it's too late now? If so, you should probably remove my lists from consideration, except for I think the $2 cost one

2190
I recently bought Inheritance very, very early thanks to Wine Merchant. Which made me think that it's an excellent card to get very expensive cards or Events very early. Until i started typing this and realized you'd need a 5$ opening for that, and Baron as well as many other 5$s can do the same. Ah well...
Wine Merhant isn't unreasonable at all for games with expensive components you want quickly, such as King's Court or Forge or especially Grand Market. The card is also less bad than it looks when you have more than one of them, as the same $2 can free all of your Wine Merchants at once. I think it is a bit underrated. I would have rated it above a lot of garbage $5s if I actually got around to filling out my poll this year :(

2191
General Discussion / Re: Brag Board
« on: October 29, 2015, 08:43:49 pm »
Sometimes horrendous matchmaking has its benefits!


2192
I agree with Chris. Me providing information has absolutely nothing to do with disrespect and I find it truly baffling that you think otherwise, especially after our long and intimate heart-to-heart talk the other day that even culminated in a kiss!

In fairness to Adam, this really doesn't help de-escalate the situation.


:P

2193
To be quite frank, why were you so angry? The reply was saying that the information you asked for was prohibitively difficult to collect, and the methodology of the request was inherently flawed. It was so very clearly trying to help; if they (and everyone else) just didn't reply if they couldn't fill it out, we'd just have a dead empty thread. We would all be thinking that nobody cares and that no one on FDS had any interest in helping out. Ignoring the problem seems more disrespectful than politely pointing it out and proposing a solution to it.

I really don't want to come across as disrespectful, but I don't think the posters in that thread did either. I'm just completely lost as to why the responses set you off so much. People aren't upvoting all those replies because they have some beef with you (I sure as hell don't), I think they are just in agreement with the legitimate confusion others feel about how that thread went down.

---

Back to the topic at hand: we don't need to "give them the information needed to reproduce the bug". They have all the logs. They have all the records they need to see this exists. Examples have already been given to them. All they need to do to reproduce the bug themselves is hit the Play button once or twice. DXV said case closed because the developers acknowledged it and said they are working on it - why would we assume that they need information from us if they already have access to all of it and they also haven't asked us for literally anything? It's not like the replay bug where the problem was hard to describe and poorly understood - this is straightforward, it says "never" and it doesn't do "never". Maybe there is something about this I don't know.

2194
I've suggested that is the case before, but I think that makes even less sense because then two people who selected the option could never be matched with each other.

2195
I don't see why this is a subjective thing or "something that will get better with time". It's just broken. It says "never more than 1000 below my rating" and it consistently violates that rule. It's a bug. It's easy to demonstrate. We've found several examples. It shouldn't take a massive community effort to find dozens more. If the developers need more examples it is trivial for them to find the examples. It should be trivial to fix this problem. They just need to fix it. It's quite simple.

2196
General Discussion / Re: Let's count each other!!!!
« on: October 29, 2015, 10:52:48 am »
35, but you can just add 1 to the reply count to get a number...

2197
Dominion General Discussion / Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition
« on: October 28, 2015, 05:22:44 pm »
Why does nobody have Possession in the top list? I know, it is very expensive, but that shouldn't matter in this ranking. And another whole turn is great, especially, if you can get more than one of them.

Possession does not cost +.  It costs .  Therefore it goes in the list.

To be completely pedantic, 6P is more than 6, and thus Possession does cost 6+. So for example if you bought Possession with Haggler you could gain a Gold. However, the intent of the list clearly was not to include Potion cards.

2198
Dominion General Discussion / Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition
« on: October 27, 2015, 06:42:29 am »
Oh shit these are due really soon. I've really got to get to work on these.

I've been playing a lot of games with Events to try and learn them all to rank them accurately, and man Events are super fucking good. Just played a game where I opened Ferry / Hireling and got a 9 card hand every turn in no time, then picked up a bunch of $5 cost Expands to make a bunch of Provinces on a megaturn. Before that I played a game with Pathfinding where I turned Magpie into a super-Laboratory that gained copies of itself. And of course there's always Lost Arts combined with any terminal draw.

2199
Game Reports / Re: Is this actually a viable strategy?
« on: October 27, 2015, 06:36:09 am »
I don't think I'd go for that. Cache/Silk Road/Counting House seems okay. Chapel/BM with a Scavenger or two seems okay as well. I think simple, mindless play is good here.

Cache / Silk Road / Counting House sounds completely awful. The only way you can gain a second card per turn in this kingdom is Altar, you have no +Buy to make Counting House even possibly worth the time investment, and you're playing against an opponent with a fast thin deck thanks to Chapel.

I think the turbo Graverobber strategy is probably better than a lot of what you can do on this board, but I'd probably consider something with Chapel / Altar / Venture to see if I could get to 8 every turn somehow. That seems overly ambitious though.

2200
Dominion League / Re: Season 11 - Signups
« on: October 27, 2015, 06:27:02 am »
For what it's worth, I went from around level 25 on Goko to level 35 on MF without really doing anything, so I don't think we should be comparing people's Goko levels to their MF levels directly at all.

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