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876

Game Reports / Ambassador, Duke, Gardens and Vault confusion

« on: December 08, 2014, 07:34:31 pm »

Code: [Select]

Embargo, Ambassador, Fishing Village, Scheme, Armory, Gardens, Quarry, Duke, Vault, Venture
Provinces/Estates. I played this kingdom with three players. I’m curious how people would play it in both 2 and 3 player games.

In the game I played, I fought the Ambassador war with another player while the third player picked up Fishing Villages, Armories, a Vault, 2 Golds and then Gardens with a province or two from Vault/Gold hands. The Gardens player had 6 point gardens by the time the game three-piled on Estates, Schemes, and Armories. The other Ambassador player and I had no chance towards the later stages.

If only one player buys Ambassador (in a two or three player game), the Ambassador player can get a thin deck with 2 Ambassadors and give out all 10 curses. However, that can help a Gardens strategy. While Armory is a poor Gardens enabler, it guarantees a gardens if drawn and gets around Embargo. Additionally, the engine only picks up VP slowly because of no +buy.

I was before the Gardens player in turn order so once Estates ran out I needed to return 2 estates to give one to the other Ambassador player. That isn't a factor you need to consider in two player.

Does Duke have a role? Thoughts appreciated.

877

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Best Dominion Moments 2014

« on: December 05, 2014, 04:15:58 pm »

Presumably you used something other than Scrying Pool to re-draw all the Treasure?

Also, Cache purchased in a Scrying Pool engine?  Sounds like a weird board.

Used other cantrips that were drawn with Scrying Pool. It was against a bot so my quality of play did not need to be that high because bots do not know how to use Scrying Pool or Black Market and let you build huge engines by not seriously contesting components :-).

I had more money than buys on a turn that I wanted to buy Mint, and Cache was the most useful card I revealed with Black Market with 0 actions left (keeps a little money in deck, adds fuel for Forager/Masquerade). http://gokologs.drunkensailor.org/static/logprettifier.html?20141205/log.516ce511e4b082c74d7a526a.1417812059456.txt#1-13

878

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Best Dominion Moments 2014

« on: December 05, 2014, 03:44:52 pm »

With a Scrying Pool engine, I bought Mandarin out of Black Market, putting 5 Golds and Cache back on top of deck, and then re-drew them and played them again, and played Mandarin as well. Mandarin payed for itself and gave $16 extra! 

879

Dominion League / Re: S4 League Champion Match: Thursday, 4 Dec, 19:30 UTC -- LIVE STREAMED

« on: December 04, 2014, 07:50:06 pm »

2. JW: Hermit, JackOfAllTrades, Bridge, Gardens, Moneylender, Procession, Journeyman, Hunting Grounds, Goons, Nobles; Provinces/Estates

I played this kingdom in a three-player game IRL. I barely pulled off a winning megaturn before the other players emptied Provinces with their more money/Jack/Nobles-focused strategies. None of us had any clue how to play the board and my friends will be glad to hear that Mic and DG were similarly puzzled. It's probably the most complicated random board I've played IRL.

880

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Post Your Fun Kingdoms to Play

« on: December 04, 2014, 05:18:46 pm »

Code: [Select]

Vagrant, Fishing Village, Great Hall, Oasis, Swindler, Duke, Knights, Trading Post, Harem, Hoard
Provinces/Estates.

881

Dominion General Discussion / Re: What set among these would you recommend next?

« on: November 27, 2014, 11:46:27 pm »

Dark ages has a lot of cards, so you can just not play with the ones you don't like while still getting great value. I left rebuild and cultist in the box.

882

Game Reports / Re: Dominion Juniors play KC/Bridge/engine

« on: November 21, 2014, 12:13:30 am »

I dunno, I'd need to see those strategies for this board in action before I stop taking them with a grain of naďve salt. Would anybody be willing to play this board with me on unrated so I can see what it's like on "expert level"?

I tried it once against Villager Bot. Here is the log where I empty the (remaining 7) provinces on turn 10. http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20141120/log.516ce511e4b082c74d7a526a.1416546583315.txt

I only get 3 of the Fishing Villages, but it doesn't matter because King's Court is a good replacement for Fishing Villages. In addition, I gain my first Bridge with Ironworks on the same turn that I buy my first KC. Admittedly, I had great draws, but this shows the speed of a draw-focused strategy on this board.

883

Help! / Re: stef vs awaclus log

« on: November 13, 2014, 01:12:47 pm »

Hi,

http://gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?20141113/log.50b20dc3e4b0c9ce0cf27eb3.1415895973660.txt

I read the stef vs awaclus log above and I want to understand why stef starts buying provinces on turn 11. I always heard I should start to green when there is no way to improve my deck anymore or if I am behind two provinces. But I think on turn 11 one can still buy wishing well or a gold maybe. Why is it correct to buy a province here? Thank you for your help.

Stef buys a Province and his fourth Candlestick Maker on turn 11. There are 2 Candlestick Makers and 3 Stewards left, and Heralds are already out. Therefore, Stef threatens to end the game on a win if he starts his turn with a points lead, and after Stef's turn 11 he is ahead 6-0 because of that Province. Awaclus scrambles to buy points on turns 12 and 13 to avoid this. Stef gets a slight lead heading into his turn 13, and therefore can end the game with a win.

884

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Best Dominion Moments 2014

« on: November 13, 2014, 02:28:26 am »

Hit $7 five times in a row in a four player game... lost by three points.

Another player bought Noble Brigand in a different four player game and stole 3 Golds with the on-buy attack.

885

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Pricing the Dominion expansions: how much bang do you get for your buck?

« on: October 19, 2014, 11:07:48 pm »

The bigger sets starting with Seaside have the best bang for the buck. Large sets offer more cards per $ spent at typical online prices and Donald has said that he got better at designing sets starting with Seaside.

From a cost-effectiveness standpoint, you'll also want to pick up Base or Intrigue for the base cards (rather than needing to purchase them separately).  Also, Intrigue and especially Base have simpler cards than later sets which is helpful for people learning to play. I find Seaside to be a great mix of interesting and relatively simple cards.

Dark Ages adds a lot of interesting (and more complicated) cards, but consider leaving Rebuild and Cultist in the box.

886

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Best Dominion Moments 2014

« on: October 19, 2014, 10:04:56 pm »

Question: What is the probability of getting a 5-2 split, and after making two purchases, getting ANOTHER 5-2 split, with both of your purchases on the bottom of the deck? (Ignoring things like Nomad Camp, Noble Brigand, etc.)

Answer: 1 in 2376.

I swear a 5/2 followed by a 5/2 doesn't seem that rare to me. I know I have had it happen before on a few occasions.

These posts can be reconciled by the following observation: many games when you start with a 5/2 split, you make only one purchase and buy nothing on the $2 hand.  In your next shuffle the chance that the single card purchased is on the bottom is 1/11, which is much higher than the 1/66 chance if you purchase 2 cards. Therefore, two 5/2 splits is likely to be substantially more common than the 1 in 2376 calculation suggests.

Edit: in addition, the exact situation where you get a 5/2, purchase two cards, and get another 5/2 is even rarer than 1 in 2376 games because in many of the 5/2 openings, you only purchase a card on the $5 hand.

887

Dominion General Discussion / Re: silverspawn's Design Rankings

« on: October 16, 2014, 04:20:04 pm »

198. Pearl Diver
Pearldiver is, in many ways, even more useless than Scout or Adventurer. It's a little bit stronger, because it's a cantrip and you will usually buy it for 2$ if you don't want anything else, but that's really the only reason. The sad thing here is that even a cantrip without bonus would be bought more often than Scout. The actual pearl diving is extremely weak, and the only combo I know of that wouldn't also work with a plain cantrip is Pearl Diver/Mystic, which really is just a Conspirator variant. And yes, sometimes it will salvage a dead turn by getting you to the village one turn faster. But for the most part, this is another wasted slot.

There's a second combo in Seaside: Pearl Diver + Lookout. Though that's still not enough to be meaningful.

888

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Which expansion is underpowered? Overpowered? An analysis of Qvist's rankings

« on: October 09, 2014, 03:29:09 pm »

Bank and Forge certainly don't qualify as "usually unplayable and a waste of space."

That's why they are not on the underpowered list!

True, you originally described them as "unlikely to be useful in non-prosperity games" implying that they're unlikely to be useful in Province games. That's a bit less harsh.

(Note that if we include the 4 cards costing 7 or more, the proportion of underpowered prosperity cards falls to 32%. However, these cards are unlikely to be useful in non-prosperity games)

889

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Which expansion is underpowered? Overpowered? An analysis of Qvist's rankings

« on: October 09, 2014, 02:41:18 pm »

King's Court is very strong in Province games, and Bank and Forge are solid cards in Province games. Only Expand is weak in Province games.

Bank and Forge are near the bottom of the list - right above Harem. I'm not convinced these are "solid" cards - by the time you get Forge/Bank, the game is getting close to be over and you will be unlikely to Forge a province or to use Bank more effectively than a Gold.

Bank and Forge certainly don't qualify as "usually unplayable and a waste of space."

Here, I define a cards as “underpowered” if it is ranked in the 25% worst cards for its cost category ($1-2, $3, $4, $5, $6+). In my experience, these underpowered cards are usually unplayable & a waste of space; unless you specify pick a board for them, chances are they will have nearly no effect on gameplay - they maybe bought only once or twice in a game, if at all.

Search for some game logs by Stef or Mic Qsenoch (they're at the top of the leaderboard- https://www.gokosalvager.com/leaderboard/) and you'll see: https://www.gokosalvager.com/logsearch

890

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Which expansion is underpowered? Overpowered? An analysis of Qvist's rankings

« on: October 09, 2014, 11:53:49 am »

(Note that if we include the 4 cards costing 7 or more, the proportion of underpowered prosperity cards falls to 32%. However, these cards are unlikely to be useful in non-prosperity games)

King's Court is very strong in Province games, and Bank and Forge are solid cards in Province games. Only Expand is weak in Province games.

As Donald mentions, the $4 cards feature more very weak cards (and there aren't many dud $3 cards). He doesn't mention that $4 also has fewer very strong cards. Bishop and Caravan, for example, are certainly not "overpowered" by any reasonable definition (and even if "top 25%= overpowered" is the standard, probably would not fall in the top 25% among all cards).
 

Here is the list of overpowered cards & expansions with, in parenthesis, the proportion of the set that is overpowered:

Seaside (27%): Ambassador, Fishing Village; Caravan, Sea Hag; Ghost Ship, Tactician, Wharf
Prosperity (28%,29%): Bishop, Monument, Worker's Village; Mountebank; Goons, Grand Market, King's Court

Lastly, it's worth noting that some powerful cards make for more interesting games, while some make for less interesting games (Rebuild and Cultist are my two least favorite here). Here's Donald X on why Rebuild leads to less interesting games: http://boardgamegeek.com/article/14094365#14094365.

In retrospect the card is clearly too powerful for how interesting it is. Which is to say, the most powerful cards should make for lots of interesting gameplay and different situations; Chapel for example may be strong, but the games play out differently depending on the rest of the cards. With Rebuild the rest of the cards are too unlikely to get involved in your Rebuild deck.

For casual players it probably isn't a problem, unless one of them reads online about how to use Rebuild. For serious players you will probably have more fun just not playing with Rebuild after you've had the experience. I would rather that not be the case, but well at least there are 34 other kingdom cards in Dark Ages.

891

Dominion League / Re: Season 3 Dominion League Livestreams

« on: October 07, 2014, 03:28:14 pm »

I'll be streaming my match against dudeabides at 20:00 CEST today.
(2 hours from this post)

http://www.twitch.tv/Stef_42

The image on this broadcast didn't appear to have been streamed, although the audio was working. Just wanted to mention it in case you weren't aware of that. Hope it works next time. http://www.twitch.tv/stef_42/b/575217326

If the problem is on my end and other people can see images on the broadcast, please let me know.

892

Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Name the one card that completes this set

« on: October 04, 2014, 05:01:11 pm »

That is not true of this puzzle. The common element is straightforwardly, objectively factual.

I stand corrected. Really interesting puzzle!

One key is that while there are a number of Action cards that refer to Actions, by definition there is always an action card in the Kingdom when such a card is in it.

893

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Flea Market- duration trasher

« on: October 03, 2014, 09:24:19 pm »

(old) Flea Market
Types: Action - Duration
Cost $4
+1 Buy. +$1. Until the end of your next turn, when you buy a card, you may trash a card from your hand.

(new) Flea Market
Types: Action - Duration
Cost $4
Now and at the start of your next turn, +1 Buy.
While this is in play, when you buy a card, you may trash a card from your hand.

The new version seems quite a bit weaker than the old version because you are more likely to get hands on the initial turn that can't buy a $3 card. 2 Coppers, 2 Estates, Flea Market, for example. That $1 is particularly important; only trashing 1 estate at the expense of buying a copper is a weak turn. This version could probably cost $3 because opening 2 of this version of Flea Market isn’t nearly as attractive.

894

Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Name the one card that completes this set

« on: October 03, 2014, 08:50:24 pm »

Here's another hint. A slightly less restrictive version of the set, which actually might have made for a better puzzle, would also include Quarry and Vineyard.

The amended list -

Beggar
Horse Traders
Lighthouse
Moat
Quarry
Secret Chamber
Squire
Vineyard

is still missing one and only one card.

The problem with puzzles like this is that while it may seem obvious to you that there's one and only one card that completes this set, chances are high that other people could come up with multiple cards that completed the set according to that same reasoning. Therefore, even if someone guesses the reasoning you are using, they won't think they've got the puzzle right because there will be multiple cards that could go along with this set.

University?

This might be the solution if the logic is "cards that have multiple functions, at least one of which is useless in a Kingdom with no action cards in the rest of the Kingdom." But Festival satisfies that logic too (and Vineyard's claim to satisfy that logic is tough, it could power up Silk Roads, for example).

If anyone posts "the common element of the current set is X, and therefore the unique card that completes the set is Y", either A) there's an argument that not all of the current cards have element X, or B) there's an argument that more than one card could be added to the set.

895

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Flea Market- duration trasher

« on: October 03, 2014, 06:14:42 pm »

I had a (non-Duration) card called Flea Market once. It gave +1 Buy and let you trash a card from your discard pile when you bought a card. It wasn't the best, although I did like that a card with the word "Market" gave +1 Buy. What if we combine the two concepts?

Flea Market
Types: Action - Duration
Cost $4
+1 Buy. +$1. Until the end of your next turn, when you buy a card, you may trash a card from your hand.

That's a great idea. It's more complicated but also more interesting because it combos with Watchtower and cheap cards you want a lot of, especially with other +buy (e.g., Fool's Gold).

My only concern would be the strength of the card. It reliably trashes 2 cards without having to buy any junk cards (or 1 later in the game once your deck is thin), gives +buy for your engine, and the +$1 is particularly helpful on the initial shuffles. Is missing re-shuffles by being a duration enough to compensate?

Note that the version in the OP is quite a bit less scary than Lookout, though Lookout is the dud card of Seaside among many players according to Donald for this reason (and can be frustrating even for experts at deck tracking).

You could just take the original and add "you may"...

The original might be too strong with "You may". Thoughts on that?

896

Variants and Fan Cards / Flea Market- duration trasher

« on: October 03, 2014, 05:21:55 pm »

Flea Market
Type: Action- Duration
Cost: $4
Now, and at the start of your next turn: You may trash a card from your hand; if it is a treasure card, +$1.

Comments: I tried to envision a simple duration trasher. Compared to Remake as an early game trasher, on average it hits more estates but doesn’t give any benefit for that, gives a benefit for hitting copper, but misses more shuffles. It seems a bit stronger than Remake in the early game, but can’t be used for late game tricks like Remake, and could backfire.

It may be worse at handling curses/ruins in an engine than Remake because it only trashes one card a turn, but may be better at handling junking in slogs. It is also great against copper junkers. Unlike Remake, it is not typically weakened by Shelters. The downside is that the card isn't that exciting, but it is simple. I didn't give the name a Seaside theme. Thoughts?

Original version:
Flea Market
Type: Action- Duration
Cost: $4
Now, and at the start of your next turn: Trash a card from your hand; if it is a treasure card, +$1.

897

Simulation / Re: Reverse Polarity Challenge: A>B, but B>C>A

« on: September 24, 2014, 11:14:15 am »

Strategies A and C can be essentially the same strategy, relying on limited components, where C is slightly better implemented.

Like A: Fool's gold with forager opening. Never trash FG with its reaction.
B: smithy Big money
C: fool's gold with forager opening, picking up one wharf. Not trashing FG.

This is hypothetical but something of this form should work.

898

Dominion League / Re: Season 3 Game Reports and Discussion- C

« on: September 16, 2014, 02:34:58 pm »

Game 1

Code: [Select]

Fortune Teller, Menagerie, Oasis, Philosopher's Stone, Conspirator, Quarry, Contraband, Soothsayer, Upgrade, Farmland
http://gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?20140908/log.516d33dbe4b082c74d7b39fa.1410229874009.txt

We both open Quarry/Oasis, and I'm thinking I we both want to play bunches of actions (Oasis, Upgrade, Menagerie and Conspirator).  With Contraband as the only +Buy here, double-Province turns are off the table, but that still seems as fast as big-money, right?  Then he buys a Soothsayer, and I follow suit, which might've been a mistake.  I probably should've just taken another Upgrade and figured I'd clear away the curses.  Then again maybe Conspirator doesn't come together fast enough on its own here and you do want to gain Gold, I'm not sure.  I am sure the second Soothsayer was wrong for both of us.  Anyway I clean my deck out faster than him thanks to more Upgrades, and start greening with the help of Farmland, now playing a money-ish deck with Oasis and Menagerie to try to cycle.  I take a 7-point lead leaving two Provinces, right after reshuffling a deck with 6 Gold, a cantrip or two, 2 copper and 4 green cards.  My most likely hands get one more Province to all but seal the win, so of course I draw both coppers and two green cards.  He breaks PPR, which I think is questionable given my likely hand.  I can do nothing but take a Duchy, and he hits the last Province. 

You can still double-Province on this board if the opponent prohibits Province with Contraband because of Farmland. So you should skip Soothsayer and build the Menagerie engine with 1 Contraband. You need to build to at least $12 with two $6 cards in hand (probably 2 Golds or 1 Gold/1 Farmland) and the ability to hit $16. Play Contraband first; if opponent prohibits Farmland, play the Golds and buy 2 Provinces. If opponent prohibits Province, buy 2 Farmlands.

In the actual game, KingZog was smart to break PPR, since he was down by 7 points. His other option is Farmland Silver into Duchy, but then he's still down 2 points and if you get the penultimate Province on your next turn, he needs to Farmland Gold into Province just to tie. 

899

Goko Dominion Online / Re: Governor bug

« on: September 16, 2014, 12:40:01 pm »

only the beta does. it's a cool feature, because it stops you from clicking on End Turn, when you really meant "play treasures"

It used to be that only the beta had this feature, but now the main version of Salvager has it too. User Settings--> Game--> "Use alternate buttons"

900

Game Reports / Re: Lucky? with Rats

« on: September 15, 2014, 05:26:37 pm »

I played a 4p Shelter game yesterday with the following kingdom:

Poor House, Beggar, Squire, Watchtower, Rats, Spy, Counterfeit, Adventurer, King's Court, Forge

I opened Watchtower/Rats and got very lucky early draws—my Rats never failed to line up with my Watchtower and I bought a Forge on turn 4. After that I was at a bit of a loss as to what to do; I was thinking I would Forge pairs of Rats into Provinces, but my Rats always lined up with my Watchtower and on each individual turn it seemed like a better tactical decision at the time to trash rather than keep the incoming Rats, so I never actually had a pair of Rats to Forge. I eventually just ended up buying Gold and drawing for it with Watchtower, which probably wasn't ideal—though I ended up finishing second, and would have won if I'd been paying better attention to the score and Forged Province into the last Province to end the game on my turn.

Thoughts on the best approach on this board?

Even if your Rats lines up with Watchtower every time, you want 2 Rats to trash your deck quicker, so you shouldn't always trash the incoming Rats. Once you've trashed your starting cards, there's a very strong Poor House-Squire-Watchtower-King's Court engine.