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726

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Bag of Holding - variant on Bag of Gold

« on: October 08, 2015, 12:25:47 pm »

The original function of the card kinda sucks.  That's the thing.

That's true, it's most useful when you have a trash for benefit that needs Golds (Apprentice is an example), or when you know you are going to play terminal draw with your last action and want the 3 coins.

Also, can we please move discussion of "greater than" and what wordings would or wouldn't work to a different thread? Thanks.

727

Dominion League / Re: S10 Champion Match: LIVE streamed Wed. 7 October, 1900 UTC

« on: October 08, 2015, 12:22:24 pm »

But I really don't understand how you can say it isn't even close or that Rebuild isn't viable here at all. Rebuild has some really strong enablers here and can consistently end the game on T12 with 21-24 points and lots of Provinces in the trash.

I didn't say Rebuild isn't viable, I said I don't see it. My guess would that it takes rebuild longer then that to end the game. If it does end on turn 12, rebuild easily wins. Regardless, I'm not sure here at all and don't want to make any bold statements.

I'm glad that my kingdom submission has provoked so much discussion and playtesting! I found it interesting because there were a lot of competing strategies and, due to Oasis, you might want to add Rebuild to an engine strategy as well.

Adam seems to be talking not about Rebuild emptying all 8 Provinces on T12 but rather that Rebuild can accumulate 3-4 Provinces and mill another Province or two by turn 12. Here is a sample log in which Wandering Winder has 4 Provinces and has milled another one by turn 12. While that's not game-ending if the opponent hasn't already bought Provinces themselves, given how many VP Rebuild burns through it doesn't look like the Wharf-City strategies played in the Champions match would be fast enough to win half of games.

728

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Bag of Holding - variant on Bag of Gold

« on: October 08, 2015, 12:20:07 pm »

If you're going to go that far, you might as well make it truly unique and simpler at the same time:

"Gain a card that is not a victory card."

It's more powerful in terms of card gain, but puts the card in the discard (unless you have liopoil in hand).  But gaining anything up to a cost of $6P and topdecking it is pretty powerful.

If you want it to be able to gain Potion-cost cards, then this idea (gain anything that is not a victory card) looks good. But then the card loses the ability to topdeck a gold, its original function. And Potion cost or >6 cost cards may completely outclass Gold leading the card even further from the original function (e.g., Possession, Platinum, or King's Court).

Donald had talked about giving it +3 Actions (instead of +1 Action), and removing the +2 Actions on Trusty Steed (replacing it with something else). I think you could do that and leave Trusty Steed as-is, though.

On some boards it would be nice if there was more than one +Actions Prize but +3 Actions and topdeck a gold don't go together thematically, and I think that version would be gained more for the actions than for the Gold. It would certainly make the card stronger and more interesting, though.

729

Variants and Fan Cards / Bag of Holding - variant on Bag of Gold

« on: October 08, 2015, 09:52:04 am »

Bag of Holding (variant on Bag of Gold)
Action – Prize
+1 Action. Gain a card costing up to $6 that is not a Victory card. Put it on top of your deck.

Bag of Gold is an uninteresting Prize. So I attempted to make a more interesting version that still has the functionality of the original. It can’t gain victory cards because Tournament can already gain Duchies, and to keep Princess's +buy more unique among prizes. Thoughts appreciated!

Original version:
(same as current)

730

Help! / Re: Is Scrying Pool / Storeroom / Necropolis / Death Cart a thing?

« on: October 07, 2015, 09:54:57 am »

I think Bishop is what makes that deck viable. It provides the thinning that deck so desperately needs and extra points for when you inevitably fall behind. Your opponent didn't go for it and still won, which makes me look at your strategy.

I might have wanted Library instead of Rabble. If the engine should use Bishop heavily against a Rabble-big money player, then the money player should probably take Library instead since it works so well against opposing Bishops.

I guess your T6 Masterpiece could have been a Rabble? I think your T10 Harem could have been a Gold, though I'm less sure about that. I think the lesson here is that if you let your opponent have all ten Scrying Pools, you're gonna have a bad time.

Even with Necropolis, 3 Rabbles in 16 cards would have been a lot (had I bought Rabble over Masterpiece there). The T10 Harem looks suspect to me as well, though I think Masterpiece-overpay for 4 Silvers might have been better. A Jack of all Trades once told me that having a critical mass of silvers can be very effective.

Should the un-contested engine player take a second Potion? If I tried the engine against money I'd consider 2 Potions to accumulate Scrying Pools quickly, using Bishop for a bit of thinning and only add Death Cart after I had a critical mass of Pools to draw the deck most turns.

731

Help! / Is Scrying Pool / Storeroom / Necropolis / Death Cart a thing?

« on: October 06, 2015, 11:10:31 pm »

Code: [Select]

Scrying Pool, Masterpiece, Storeroom, Bishop, Death Cart, Quarry, Library, Mine, Rabble, Harem
Provinces/Shelters. Log here. I just lost this game playing Rabble and money against my opponent's Scrying Pool engine. Looking at the board I would have said that the engine is too slow to compete with money fueled by Masterpiece but he opened 5/2 and so couldn't open Storeroom-Potion, but won anyway.

My opponent picked up multiple Death Carts to increase action density so he could draw more cards with pools to discard to Storeroom. In retrospect I probably should have planned for a longer game as his deck accumulates more actions and so his explosive turns get more coins (but are still limited to at most 3 buys), meaning that eventually he'll be able to buy Provinces easily. Buying Harem and Duchy (trashing hovel) as early as I did might have been mistakes. Thoughts appreciated!

732

Game Reports / Re: Stef and I put all the curses on the Island mat

« on: October 03, 2015, 07:17:09 pm »

I can't help but wonder, wouldn't a Big Money-ish strategy have been stronger on this board? You're both stronger players than I am, so I'm probably wrong, but at first glance Embassy, IGG and Soothsayer are a couple of pretty awesome Big Money enablers, with two of them also being cursers and the third able to alleviate the negative effects of your opponent's cursers. With the abundance of Villages around, an engine looks promising too, but Cursers and lack of trashing really hurt, and they don't hurt Big Money as much...

I was wondering the same thing after the game, except that I think you would want to open Young Witch/Silver on 4/3, then you might want a Soothsayer and IGGs after that. Embassy would be added when the curses are close to out. If you don't pick up Native Villages the engine player will pick up 2 YWs. The engine would probably then get Procession, looking to Procession YW and then Procession-Island to set aside curses, while picking up Cities and some Embassies for filtering. A potential 3-pile for the money player would be Curse-Island-Duchy.

733

Game Reports / Stef and I put all the curses on the Island mat

« on: October 02, 2015, 01:12:35 pm »

Code: [Select]

Crossroads, Native Village, Island, Procession, Thief, Young Witch, Bazaar, City, Embassy, Ill-Gotten Gains, Soothsayer
http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?20151002/log.50b20dc3e4b0c9ce0cf27eb3.1443805466542.txt

Provinces/Estates. Well, not all of the curses got set aside, only 9 of them. I bought out the last one for the 3-pile victory, and my first victory over Stef.

An interesting board since there are three cursers, of which only Young Witch has synergy with the action deck you're trying to build, but it can be blocked by Native Villages. I got very lucky here with having banes/him not having banes. Not sure if his Soothsayer was a mistake, Golds aren't that helpful for the engine and Procession-Island deals with Curses fairly effectively.

734

Dominion Articles / Re: key cards in Dominion: a report card.

« on: October 01, 2015, 05:23:23 pm »

Luser, the problem with your sims is that you are just comparing an igg rush to a lot of big money variants. Adam is saying that you often ignore it because you should be building an engine. Since you can't simulate engines well unless you restrict your sim to a single board, simulation isnt very helpful.

No, he also claimed that strong bm will beat igg.

Let's say my opponent is going for the Canonical IGG Rush™ -- without some serious help, he's getting one IGG per turn, and then when those are gone, he buys Duchies. Let's say he gets near-perfect draws and can buy an IGG for 10 straight turns, starting at T3, then he can buy a Duchy every single turn after that. So the game is over on T20. That's like forever, and all you have to do is get 5 Provinces and trash most of your Curses and you just win. 20 turns is like an eternity; if there's any decent trashing at all, any respectable engine (or even a good big money strategy) will have no problem with this.

Noted without comment.

735

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Post Your Fun Kingdoms to Play

« on: September 29, 2015, 02:01:45 pm »

Code: [Select]

Poor House, Hermit, Loan, Menagerie, Rats, Sea Hag, Worker's Village, Highway, Fairgrounds, Prince
Colonies/Shelters.

736

Game Reports / Re: Goke is weird. How did this happen? Tie game on turn 0

« on: September 17, 2015, 02:30:16 pm »

I still wonder how some people can be 4000+ and have a negative iso rank.

There is a known bug where if you change your username then your iso rank won't update with the extension and will look like -50. But their rank for the new username will be correct on the leaderboard.  http://www.gokosalvager.com/leaderboard

737

Rules Questions / Re: Black Market/Hermit

« on: September 16, 2015, 11:04:08 am »

Based on those snippets, it looks like the difference is the timing.  In the first example, you played Black Market and bought a card, then you played Hermit and didn't buy anything else.  In the second example, you played two Hermits and then you played Black Market, buying a card.  That probably means that Dominion Online is only checking for buys while Hermit is in play. 

To confirm, you can try playing a Hermit, buying something through Black Market, then playing another Hermit and not buying anything.  If my guess is correct, then you should get only one Madman from the second Hermit, but not the first.  If that doesn't happen, then it's still possible that they are doing the same kind of timed check but it's stored in a single variable for all Hermits in play.

Exactly right!

JW   plays Village
JW   draws Village
JW   plays Village
JW   draws Hermit
JW   plays Hermit
JW   gains Village
JW   plays Black Market
JW   reveals Scrying Pool, Horn of Plenty, Worker's Village
JW   plays Silver
JW   buys Worker's Village
JW   gains Worker's Village
JW   places Horn of Plenty on bottom of the Black Market deck
JW   places Scrying Pool on bottom of the Black Market deck
JW   plays Hermit
JW   gains Village
JW   trashes Hermit
JW   gains Madman
JW   draws Copper
JW   shuffles deck
JW   draws Worker's Village, Madman, Hermit, Village

738

Rules Questions / Re: Black Market/Hermit

« on: September 15, 2015, 07:59:48 pm »

If you buy a card via Black Market, Hermit should not trigger.

Dominion Online has fixed this, and now does it correctly.

Dominion Online apparently does not do this interaction correctly any more.

JW   plays Black Market
JW   reveals Secret Chamber, Spy, Embassy
JW   plays Copper
JW   buys Embassy
JW   gains Embassy
Lord Bottington   gains Silver
JW   places Secret Chamber on bottom of the Black Market deck
JW   places Spy on bottom of the Black Market deck
JW   plays Hermit
JW   trashes Estate
JW   gains Fishing Village
JW   trashes Hermit
JW   gains Madman
JW   draws Curse, Curse, Copper, Hermit, Copper

But wait, in the same game the interaction was handled correctly. Does Dominion online get the interaction correct with multiple Hermits in play, but not with only one? Or is it a random process? Stay tuned for exciting future investigations!

JW   plays Hermit
JW   trashes Curse
JW   gains Hermit
JW   plays Hermit
JW   trashes Curse
JW   gains Hermit
JW   plays Black Market
JW   reveals Remodel, Catacombs, Hunting Party
JW   plays Copper
JW   plays Copper
JW   plays Copper
JW   buys Catacombs
JW   gains Catacombs
JW   places Hunting Party on bottom of the Black Market deck
JW   places Remodel on bottom of the Black Market deck
JW   draws Worker's Village, Rats, Rats, Copper, Fishing Village

739

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Eliminating the obvious self-destruct aspect of game?

« on: September 08, 2015, 04:40:56 pm »

If I were teaching Dominion to someone prone to analysis paralysis, or who wasn't familiar with strategy games I'd consider using fewer than 10 cards for the first game kingdom.

For example: Workshop, Village, Smithy, Cutpurse, Festival, Junk Dealer.

This shows trashing, gaining, +Actions, +Buy, +Cards, and attacks, and has only simple cards.

740

Game Reports / Giants smash and Duchies multiply for epic comeback

« on: September 04, 2015, 05:40:51 pm »

Code: [Select]

Poor House, Chapel, Haven, Smugglers, Farming Village, Herald, Duplicate, Royal Carriage, Laboratory, Giant
Three other Kingdom cards are Duplicate, Royal Carriage, and Giant. I played this three player game (Provinces/Shelters) yesterday. It was my first game with Royal Carriage and my first game where I gained Duplicate.

The player to my right got a 5/2 opening for Laboratory/Chapel and quickly assembled a deck with 2 Poor Houses, 2 Farming Villages, Lab, and Chapel.  I knew if I bought Provinces I wouldn’t be able to catch him. In fact, he bought Province 5 turns in a row. The third player overloaded on Poor Houses, emptying the pile, and couldn’t find the actions to get to Province reliably, which meant the game wouldn’t quickly end on Provinces.

So I picked up Duplicate and Heralds, Duplicated for 2 Giants and went to work attacking, trashing my Poor Houses used for early cash. Then I picked up more Heralds, 2 more Duplicates, Royal Carriages (particularly to copy the Giants) and Laboratories, before I gained the Duchies four at a time (with 3 Duplicates). Farming Village had done good work for him so my main opponent had 7 Provinces, with Farming Villages, Heralds, and Curses all low. On my last turn I played 2 Giants (plus 2 Royal Carriages) to empty the last 3 Curses and gained the last 4 Duchies with Duplicate. The 7-Province player had 7 curses (had trashed ~3 with Chapel), so I won by a point, 36-35.

In hindsight, I should have gained more Duplicates (5 left in the pile, I could have taken 2 more to gain 6 Duchies a turn without adding extra risk of three-piling, and this would have avoided needing to go off with 8 Duchies in my deck the last turn). I was able to stow some Royal Carriages on my mat at the end of each turn, which helped me go off with many Duchies in my deck (I didn’t want to copy Giant as much at the end because I couldn’t afford to empty the Curses too early). My greatest Dominion win IRL. These Adventures cards are great fun.

Thoughts? How would people open here on 4/3? How should this play out, and would it be different in 2p as opposed to 3p?

741

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Most confusing combination?

« on: September 02, 2015, 09:47:48 pm »

Honourable mention to Procession + Hireling (+ Graverobber/Rogue) for creating an ongoing effect at the start of each of your turns, despite there being no cards in play to remind you of it.

Procession would stay in play while it is copying Hireling. To get this confusing effect you refer to, you need to Procession on another Procession on Hireling. See http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Hireling

If you use Disciple (or a similar card, like Throne Room) to play Hireling twice, you will draw two extra cards each turn, and Disciple will also stay in play for the rest of the game

742

Game Reports / Re: Unstoppable Torturer Chain

« on: September 01, 2015, 06:21:16 pm »

It seems like this should be an Urchin opening. Given the Shelters, I am unsure whether it should be double Urchin or Swindler-Urchin, though without Shelters you'd want the Swindler. Mercenary handles incoming curses from Torturer well, and Urchin/Mercenary combine well with a Torturer chain as previously noted.

743

Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Puzzle: the fastest kingdom

« on: August 10, 2015, 02:11:23 pm »

You might want to try a governor + king's court + bridge sort of thing, possibly with chapel. Throw in a baker coin, shelters, and an event like seaway. Emptying the province pile will be as fast as emptying 3 other piles.

One of my submissions to this season's kingdoms championship match kingdoms was an attempt to find a kingdom that let a (edit: solo) player empty the Provinces the fastest on average: Stonemason, Masquerade, Bridge, Fortress, Procession, Quarry, Baker, Governor, Border Village, King's Court. Provinces/Shelters.

I figured it would be too straightforward strategically for the championship match but would be fun for the after-tournament, which is exactly what happened. Masquerade was chosen instead of Chapel because it helps the Procession chain to have a 3-cost, and because you can sometimes cause a great reshuffle by trashing overgrown estate with masquerade on turns 3/4.

744

Puzzles and Challenges / Re: There's a Rat in my Kitchen

« on: August 06, 2015, 03:23:36 pm »

I believe the card you set aside with Inheritance is never "yours" -- you never gain it, and if I remember correctly, it doesn't join your deck at the end of the game for stuff like Gardens, Fairgrounds, etc.

FAQ says:

This is not gaining a card, and does not count for things that care about gaining, such as Treasure Hunter; however at the end of the game, include the card in your deck when scoring.

745

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Promo Event card in Germany

« on: August 04, 2015, 05:20:40 pm »

http://www.reddit.com/r/dominion/comments/3fobgo/new_promo_event_at_gencon/

From the link: Summon(5 cost) Gain a card costing up to 4 and set it aside. At the start of your next turn play the set aside card.

Update:

Summon: Event, $5
Gain an Action card costing up to $4. Set it aside. If you do, then at the start of your next turn, play it.

When-gain effects trigger. Remember lose-track just stops cards from being moved, it doesn't stop other things from happening. The Summoned card can end up in the wrong place, in which case the "if you do" will fail.

746

Dominion Articles / Re: Things that make Menagerie amazing

« on: July 30, 2015, 04:08:33 pm »

Plaza is +Actions to enable you to get rid of a second copy of a terminal and also a way to discard excess treasure (usually Copper).

747

Goko Dominion Online / Re: Isotropish Leaderboard (alternative to Goko Pro)

« on: July 29, 2015, 06:03:41 pm »

I played a game where the player just stopped playing, probably on purpose, as s/he was losing. So the game timed out and I won. This game doesn't show up in the search in the gokosalvager log search.

Then I played a game where Goko just kicked me out of the game, so I lost. This game doesn't shop up either.

I assume noen of them count for the rating.

Are both of these on purpose?

Gokosalvager's default search setting excludes games where a player quit. You need to adjust the search settings to find these games. Your first example seems to be this game: http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?20150729/log.50fd569ae4b0f82020d83fac.1438200691106.txt.

Edit: So games where a player quits do count for ratings. However, I believe that if a player is prevented from joining the game by a server error (and therefore quits), the game is not counted.

748

Dominion General Discussion / Re: How to Teach People Dominion & Introduce New Expansions to Them

« on: July 29, 2015, 04:45:52 pm »

I've had success recently using Soothsayer as the first game attack. New players like gaining Golds, and the attack hurts less than other cursers because of the bonus card. I've also used Oasis instead of Warehouse to teach people about discarding, as suggested here.

Most recent first game variant was: Courtyard, Workshop, Oasis, Village, Smithy, Remodel, Duke, Festival, Soothsayer, Junk Dealer.

Cutting Moat for Courtyard means that I don't have to explain reactions, and Junk Dealer is an obvious counter to Soothsayer. Duke is a simple alt-VP, but could be easily changed to a different kingdom VP card or treasure.

749

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Best Dominion Moments 2015

« on: July 20, 2015, 12:14:08 pm »

JW   plays Cartographer
JW   draws Moat
JW   looks at Vineyard, Vineyard, Vineyard, Vineyard
JW   discards Vineyard
JW   discards Vineyard
JW   discards Vineyard
JW   discards Vineyard

750

Help! / Re: funkdoc's journey to 5k (& beyond)

« on: July 14, 2015, 07:14:38 pm »

i know the early trashing is supposed to be bad, but they sure scared me with it! 

Early trashing with Bishop is good, but the free trash is even better for your opponent early on (you have 4 non-Bishop cards to choose from to trash, they have 5), which is why it's usually a bad opener.