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Topics - JW

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26
Variants and Fan Cards / A more interesting Bard
« on: November 17, 2017, 05:11:57 am »
Bard
$4
Types: Action, Fate
+$2. Receive a Boon.

Bard seems both weak and boring. Bard is boring because there are two more interesting terminal actions that also give coin(s) and a Boon (Tracker and Sacred Grove). Making it cost $3 instead of $4 would increase its power, but it would still be boring.

tastor suggested allowing Bard to choose one of the top two boons to receive. The basic idea seems good, though you'd probably want to discard the Boon not chosen. However, this change might make Bard too strong. A weaker alternative would be: "Look at the top card of the Boon deck. You may discard it. Then receive a Boon."

A bigger change to Bard would be to make it a source of +2 Actions (thematic with Wandering Minstrel). Nocturne could use another source of +Actions, because Cursed Village has bad synergy with the Night cards, and Conclave is hard to get many extra +Actions out of. A non-terminal action that gained a Boon on each play would take too long to resolve, so maybe something like:

Revised Bard
$3
Types: Action, Fate
+$1. +2 Actions. If you do not have any other Bards in play (besides this), receive a Boon.

Another alternative is to make the card more like Crossroads as a limited +Actions effect (and in wording as well, as suggested by GendoIkari). Something like:

Alternate Bard
$3
Types: Action, Fate
+$1. Receive a Boon. If this is the first time you played a Bard this turn, +2 Actions.

27
Dominion: Nocturne Previews / Nocturne previews available online
« on: October 23, 2017, 12:51:17 pm »
Quote from: Stef
Version 1.3

Nocturne!
images in the status bar to remind you about Duration attacks, -coin and -card
Enchanted actions have a pig image
Starting cards shown before the game starts.

This version has the first Nocturne Previews.
Everyone is allowed to play with them for free during this week.
If you play with Nocturne using the automatcher, games will always be unrated.

Nocturne isn't fully accessible yet: the only way to play with Nocturne now is using "Nocturne Previews". You can't manually select the cards in the kingdom selector, and you can't buy a subscription to Nocturne yet.

be careful using "advanced options" for the automatcher. It can search for Nocturne Previews, rated games and practice games all independent of each other. If you really want Nocturne Previews, unselect the other two.

http://forum.shuffleit.nl/index.php?topic=604.msg10310#msg10310

28
Dominion General Discussion / Resources for "New to Dominion" page
« on: September 24, 2017, 12:26:49 pm »
The New to Dominion page doesn't take full advantage of the resources that have been created in recent years that may be particularly helpful for new players. So let's use this thread to suggest additional resources.

A few of my suggestions:
Burning Skull's How to Base Dominion video series seems like a great resource for new players once they are familiar with what the cards in the base set do. 

I'd recommend also adding video(s) on how to play Dominion. Adam Horton has a recent tutorial.  Though I haven't watched it yet, he seems to have a good handle on making beginner-friendly content, so I'd expect this to be good as well.

I would also recommend Wandering Winder's 5 fundamental deck types article series: https://dominionstrategy.com/2013/01/21/the-five-fundamental-deck-types-introduction/

29
Dominion Online can be difficult for beginners. Below are several suggestions to help address this, with links to ShuffleIT’s forums where I’ve posted about items there. Thoughts, comments, and further suggestions appreciated.

Items implemented since this post first mentioned them:
Create an official FAQ and guidelines about how to use the client, building on Chris’s excellent (but now outdated) unofficial FAQ. Edit: werothegreat has posted an official FAQ

Create a “new to Dominion” page in the game client that links to one or more video tutorials about how to play Dominion, to the Dominion wiki so that players can look up FAQs for cards that they are unfamiliar with, and perhaps links to the Dominion Strategy blog’s “New to Dominion” page as well. Edit: werothegreat has posted an official Welcome to Dominion online post.

Remind players of duration attacks, and show -Card and -Coin tokens.

Add a see Kingdom feature, including Kingcard cards (including ones not on top of split piles) / events/ landmarks / boons / hexes / states / non-Kingdom cards. This is particularly important for newer players. Implemented as originally developed by IceHawk78 in his "King's Courtier" Chrome plugin.

Improve the visual interface of the game, so that reliance on the game log is not required and things are easier to follow for beginners.

Easy to implement ways:
Rename “practice” games to “unrated” games. The term "practice game" seems problematic, because it may imply that the games aren't expected to be taken seriously, which reduces player interest in these unrated games. I believe that the term "unrated game" is both more accurate and avoids this negative connotation.  And unrated games help new players to learn new cards at their desired pace, and may provide some people with a less stressful experience.

Create an option to avoid opponents subscribed to more cards. This lets new players avoid running into kingdoms in which almost every card is unfamiliar to them, and there are many new mechanics.

A “Copper” subscription that adds only Intrigue and Seaside. The current smallest subscription option, “Silver,” adds Intrigue, Seaside, Prosperity, Cornucopia, Hinterlands and Guilds, which may be too much for a new player to learn at once. I eventually bought all sets on the previous online implementation but did so gradually because I was new to the game and that made it easier to learn.

Allow a player to "deactivate" the sets that they have subscribed to, so that they can, for example, still play rated games as if they only had the base set, but can mix in other sets when they want to.  By far the fastest way to find a game is to use the automatch feature to find rated games. Burning Skull had to create a separate account ("Drowning Skull") for his great "How to Base Dominion" video series because it is much harder to get a game with only the base dominion set if you are a subscriber.

Update the wording of Black Market to match the current implementation (probably not as important for new players because they're less likely to see it, but this is a simple change that will reduce confusion).

Harder to implement ways:
There should be a well-formatted log available after Dominion Online games to anyone with the hyperlink, regardless of subscription (like the old log prettifier). Having available game logs would make it easier for new players to analyze games, and to get feedback on their games.  There should also be a search feature that allows game logs to be looked up later, like the old Goko Salvager website (the closest thing right now is to look up game IDs for recent rated games on Dominion Scavenger, which you can then load with the "load old games" Dominion Online feature if you subscribe to the cards used in that game).

"Game does mandatory actions for me" should be an option that needs to be enabled. So, by default, the game should show animations when Advisor reveals three coppers, etc.

Add an in-client tutorial about how to play Dominion

Improve the play of the bots. Campaigns (potentially available both online and offline) designed to teach new sets one at a time may also be useful.

Note: This post was inspired by Polk’s excellent post that lays out the case for pessimism about Dominion’s future, in large part that full random Dominion has become more complicated over time and so it’s harder to add new players.

30
Dominion General Discussion / Which Removed Cards Do You Use IRL?
« on: September 11, 2017, 04:51:26 pm »
Clearly this poll only applies to people who own 1e Base and/or 1e Intrigue IRL. I am curious what everyone does in this regard. Any secret Secret Chamber admirers?

31
Variants and Fan Cards / Werewolf
« on: August 03, 2017, 11:05:37 am »
Inspired by http://riograndegames.com/Game/1328-Dominion-Nocturne

Current version:
Werewolf:
Action–Attack, $6
+1 Card
+1 Action
+$1
You may trash a card from your hand.
Each other player with 4 or more cards in hand discards a card.
------
While this is in play, when you play a Silver, -$1.

Original version:
Worded as "While this is in play, your Silver produce $1 less."

The idea was that Werewolf should be adverse to Silver, but for this to cause interesting strategic considerations it needs to cost $6 or maybe $5. I wanted it to be an attack card that got stronger in packs, so I borrowed Soldier's attack. That made it want to have +1 Card, +1 Action.  To justify costing $6, it became a Junk Dealer variant on top, which gives it a Mercenary-like feel.

32
Game Reports / A thorny kingdom without +Actions or +Buy
« on: March 20, 2017, 03:16:27 pm »
I played this game IRL recently:

Dungeon, Watchtower, Scavenger, Transmogrify, Archive, Artificer, Counting House, Relic, Soothsayer, Storyteller

2 players, Provinces/Estates.

We both opened 5-2, I got Artificer while my opponent got Soothsayer. I tried to build an engine with Archive for draw, Artificer for gains, and Transmogrify + Watchtower for some thinning.

My opponent picked up Transmogrify and Dungeon on their next shuffle, and then a Relic, more Dungeons by Transmogrifying Estates, and a second Transmogrify. After that, some more golds and then provinces. 

They got in a few curses before I was able to get Transmogrifies, Dungeons, and my two Watchtowers. Transmogrify with Watchtower in hand let me thin my deck, and both that and Artificer + Watchtower let me run out the curses (e.g., Transmogrify Curse/Copper into Curse, trash with Watchtower).  I tried to build up to large hand sizes with Archive to get extra gains with Artificer, playing Watchtower at the end of turns to refill my hand with treasure, which included a small number of Silvers and one Relic to attack my opponent (playing Watchtower after discarding most of my hand to Watchtower). However, in the early part of the game this draws cards dead with Watchtower a lot (later on, you're getting through the deck and so if you have the right number of Archives you can discard essentially all treasure cards to draw with Watchtower).

However, my opponent raced out to four Provinces and milled two more with Transmogrify, ending the game before my engine had spent many turns firing. I see a lot of different potential plans here. Can Dungeon and Artificer support Counting House? Can Golds from Soothsayer fuel Storyteller as draw? Thoughts appreciated.

33
Dominion General Discussion / Favorite cards, and why - 2017
« on: January 20, 2017, 12:24:53 pm »
What are your favorite cards (or events/landmarks), and why? We had a similar topic two years ago, but a lot of new cards have come out (and become available online) since then. My top 10:

Villa: to me, this is the most unique and mind-bending card in Dominion.

Black Market: adds so much variety and crazy situations to the game.

Watchtower: rewards a player who can utilize its many synergies. Elegant design.

Menagerie: requires work to set up but has great potential. Perfectly embodies Cornucopia.

Tactician: I love double Tactician decks, and even a single Tactician shows that one great turn is often better than two regular turns.

Enchantress: The flavor is perfect, and it discourages strategies focused on a single action card. 

Crown: one of the most flexible cards in the game, and being an Action-Treasure causes many interesting interactions.

Procession: It can be incredibly powerful, but requires a lot of care to use correctly.

Transmogrify: kick-starting your engine, milling Provinces, getting rid of Estates, Transmogrify can do it all! .

Castles: a pile that has 8 different cards in it, and works!

Honorable Mention: Counterfeit, Courtier, Replace

34
Rules Questions / Villa and Wine Merchant?
« on: January 09, 2017, 11:00:01 am »
I buy Villa with at least 2 coins unspent. Can I discard my Wine Merchants from my tavern mat because I am returning to the action phase?

35
Dominion General Discussion / Best Dominion moments 2017
« on: January 08, 2017, 12:14:11 am »
A new thread for a new year. To landmarks and Empires now being available online!

What to do with all of those Estates from Crowned Followers? I know!

J plays a Forge.
J trashes 4 Estates.
J gains a Province.


36
Puzzles and Challenges / Design the board with the largest P1 advantage
« on: November 30, 2016, 03:01:59 pm »
What board would you design to give P1 the highest chance of victory?  Let's assume that there is a 2 event/landmark limit.

I'll start off with Ferry, Travelling Fair, Squire, Gardens, 8 villages. Hope for a 3-4 split so you can Ferry Squire turn 1, topdeck 3 squires on turn 2, and gain all the remaining Squires on turn 3! All credit to gamesou for this discovery.

IRL game with Gardens, Squire, Travelling Fair & Ferry. Gain all the Squires by turn 3 and you feel like Celestial Chameleon.
(perhaps the most favourable board for P1 I've ever seen).

37
The later Dominion sets ratchet up the complexity of the game substantially. A factor that I hadn’t considered is that the sheer variety of mechanics is difficult for infrequent Dominion players. I’ve got all of the sets besides Alchemy and even when selecting for simpler cards, if the Kingdom has too many different mechanics, inexperienced players tend to struggle. For example, Bandit Camp, Baker, and Monument are all simple cards, but keeping track of Spoils, coin tokens and VP tokens and thinking about the strategic implications is very challenging. In addition, there are so many mechanics that it even if someone gets a better feel for, say, coin tokens after a game with Baker, it may be a number of games before coin tokens come up again.

With that in mind, I’m looking to create a simplified group of cards to use when playing with less experienced players. These people aren’t completely new to the game, but they may only have played 5 times before, and do so rarely. There will be other frequent Dominion players in these games, so just using the base set would be too drastic a change. Most games will be 3-4 players.

My initial thought is to use Dominion 2nd Ed., Intrigue 2nd. Ed., Seaside, but exclude:
Torturer (Rabble’s attack is less oppresive and doesn’t lead to analysis paralysis), Pearl Diver (not interesting enough), Navigator (replaced by the more interesting/stronger Monument), Sea Hag (replaced by Soothsayer which helps you and hurts your opponents less), and Explorer (replaced by Hoard which is better and has synergy with Mill/Harem/Nobles/Island).

And additionally include: Bishop, Monument, Worker’s Village, City, Rabble, Hoard, Soothsayer, Amulet, Lost City, Hireling, Enchantress, Forum.

Reasoning behind these cards is: Bishop and Monument are the simplest VP token cards, and using them may lead to using landmarks in the future. I want to add at least two +Action cards because it’s a little rarer in Base/Intr/Sea than in more recent sets: Worker’s Village adds +Buy, City is a nice mirror-image to Poacher, and Lost City is friendly interaction. Amulet and Hireling are fun and simple duration cards. Enchantress and Forum are among the simpler Empires cards, and it shouldn’t be hard to explain how Enchantress interacts with Moat/Lighthouse if that comes up.

Thoughts? Have other people done something similar?

38


Code: [Select]
Shanty Town, Steward, Coppersmith, Procession, Rats, Silk Road, Bandit Camp, Graverobber, Nobles, King's Court
Colonies/Estates. SCSN had this gem in a recent league match against gamesou: log

SCSN’s turn 11 starts with 6 Nobles, 7 King’s Courts and 10 Rats in the supply and he empties all of them. The Rats are easy to pile though he needs to get enough Nobles in play to eat the rest of his deck with Rats.

It’s hard to follow the megaturn from the log, so I recommend the video.  You can see the game on SCSN’s stream, game starts around 58:00 in. The video won’t be around much longer (SCSN, please highlight the game and I’ll update to link to that).  Mic Qsenoch and Burning Skull's comments inspired the subject line of this post.

39
Goko Dominion Online / Band of Misfits and Gear
« on: August 17, 2016, 02:52:16 pm »
I miscounted and thought Treasure Hunter worked incorrectly on MF, sorry!

Here's an actual bug to report, courtesy of Mic Qsenoch: If you play Band of Misfits as a Gear and set aside zero cards, it still stays out until the following turn. I alerted Making Fun on their forums.

Feature request for the new Dominion online: a counter of how many cards your opponent gained on their last turn in games with Treasure Hunter, so you don't need to scroll through the log and count! Which apparently was enough to mess me up!

Feature request for these forums: the ability to delete your own thread if no one has yet replied to the original post!

40
Goko Dominion Online / Making Fun now offering subscriptions
« on: July 07, 2016, 05:34:33 pm »
Making Fun is now offering subscriptions through the end of the year: http://forum.makingfun.com/showthread.php?10947-Release-Notes-v-2-1-6

Quote
What plans are available?
The normal subscription is a one-time purchase that lasts through the end of 2016. However, we also give the option to subscribe for 30 days at a time, for those who want to try it out. The normal 2016 subscription is cheaper than repeatedly extending by 30 days.
What if I already own everything?
Then continue to play as usual. Subscribing is simply an alternative to purchasing.
What if I own some things?
You can continue to use what you own. However, if you choose to subscribe, you will be subscribing to everything you don't already own. The subscription price you see when signed into your account is discounted based on what you already own.
I don't own anything. Can I still play the base set for free?
Yes.
Is the 2016 subscription a constant price?
No, it's an ever decreasing price. It is based not only on what you own (if anything), but on how many hours remain until the end of the year.
I have existing/leftover Ducats. Can I use them to subscribe?
Of course. This is why subscriptions are priced in Ducats.
Why the change?
Two reasons. 1. We've always wanted subscriptions on mobile in order to have a more competitive price-point there, but up until now we haven't been allowed to. 2. We're now halfway through 2016, so current purchases will last only a half-year on our service plus one year on the new service (unless you choose the "own forever for offline play" option.) We were told we could not lower our prices, but this is an alternative where we now have approval to charge less.
Why is a 30 day subscription still available for purchase after I've bought it?
Each time you subscribe, your subscription will be extended for 30 days. The option will only go away when extending by 30 days would go past the end of the year.
How do I see when my subscription expires?
It will say this on the main store screen.
Can I auto-renew on the 30-day subscription?
No, if you are considering a longer subscription, we recommend the 2016 subscription instead.
Do I have to subscribe just to get the Summon card?
Not at the moment: we still sell cards, although buried somewhat, for exactly these kinds of situations. However, we do plan to remove card purchasing altogether several months before the end of the year, once everyone so inclined has availed themselves of this option.

41
I posted about how MF is losing the license in their thread on the release of Adventures, which they have since deleted: http://forum.makingfun.com/showthread.php?10154-Release-Notes-v-2-1-with-Adventures&p=54441#post54441

Not only is Making Fun misinforming customers by not telling them that their license ends at the end of 2016, they deleted my post to actively conceal that fact. I had posted:

Quote from: JW_fds
This is great. Everyone should note, though, that Making Fun's license expires at the end of 2016. The creators of the new implementation will give you previous purchases for a year for online play (and there will be some kind of a la carte pricing if you only need to purchase a very small number of additional sets per month).  Purchasing a set from Making Fun means mainly paying for the set through the end of 2016 when Making Fun loses the license. So if you buy Adventures the vast majority of your purchase price (minus the small discount next year) is just paying for through the end of 2016.

Quote from: Stef, creator of the new implementation
We will be selling two different products: Dominion Online and Dominion Offline. In Dominion Offline you can buy expansions, and use them to play random boards, selfmade boards or campaigns against AI. For Dominion Online you will have to buy a monthly subscription. This does not require you to own the expansions offline. Online you can play against other players or against AI.
Exact prices are yet to be determined, but you can expect them to be around $3-$8 per expansion offline (depending on the expansion size) and $3/month online (for all expansions, $2/month for half the expansions). Existing users will be offered a choice: they either get their expansions transferred to 'Dominion Offline', or they get their expansions Online for the period of one year.

I re-posted the same message here, but don't expect it to last for long. Edit: it's been deleted as well.

42
Rules Questions / Border village and inn
« on: April 11, 2016, 11:44:42 pm »
I buy Border village and use it to gain an Inn. Can I shuffle border village into my deck?

43
Dominion Articles / Wandering Winder's new Swindler article
« on: March 24, 2016, 03:09:58 pm »
Here is Wandering Winder's new Swindler article.

Swindler
Swindler is a card which I've long rated very highly. It is cheap, and in the best case, incredibly devastating. However, recently it has lost a lot of its luster in my eyes. Let's break it down.

Starting Off
Swindler is terminal. This should give you some amount of hesitancy in opening Swindler/Swindler. On the other hand, the attack can be very powerful, so it's not crazy to think that it might be worth risking the collision. There are 2 main general factors here: how much does the collision hurt you, and how good is the attack?

Checking the opening percentages, we can see that compared to Swindler/Silver, by opening double Swindler you're losing 19% chance to hit 5 at least once, and a couple percent to go 5/5. You're also nearly 25% less likely to hit $6 (all of these figures are for turns 3/4 and assume no funny business from opponent giving you cards or stealing them from your deck, or spy attacking you, etc. - though it's important to note that without some kind of spy effect, their Swindler attack doesn't change these numbers for turns 3 and 4). You have a 37.9% chance to attack them twice, and a 98.5% chance to attack them at least once, up from 0% and 83.3% respectively. This means that by opening double Swindler, you get slightly more than .2 fewer 5-costs and slightly less than .25 fewer 6-costs (if you want those), and in return, you get .53 more Swindler plays.

To figure out whether or not that's worth it, you need to gauge how important hitting 5 (or 6) is, and how much the attack is worth. Let's go after the attack first: 7/12 (58%) of the time, you're hitting a Copper, which you will always be turning into curse. Copper into Curse is very good in the early game, because coppers are a huge part of the economy. 1/4 of the time, you're hitting Estate. This is really bad - worse than silver since it skips their estate for them. Indeed, you're always cycling early game, which is not good for you, though the appeal of the good cases is definitely enough to overcome that. Still, a quarter of the time it's actively bad. The last 1/6 of games, we are hitting their buys. How good this is varies a LOT from board to board, as when there's something really bad (used to be true more than it is now, but note that it's effectively always true for 5-costs by going into Duchy), this is very good. But sometimes you're e.g. turning Swindler into Silver, which is a downgrade, but a minor one.

Money Paragraph
So though I've gone for double Swindler in a huge percentage of games I've played where that was an option, I now think that this is usually incorrect, that Swindler/Silver is often better. The cases for this are when there's a key 5 or 6 you want to get early. The cases where doubling down on terminals is better include those times where there's something bad at every price point, and of course when the 4s are not much worse than the 5s. I also want to note here that Swindler/Swindler is a decent amount better (in a relative sense) 'on the draw' (i.e. as 2nd player), since you are more likely to hit a key card (on turn 4, your opponent has more total bought cards in their deck). Since hitting these cards is the best thing you can  usually do, that is a noteworthy if not huge boost.

Later On
Swindler is a fine card later in the game, but it tends to not be special. Hitting estates is still bad. Hitting Copper turns from being very good (denying a good fraction of economy) to being very mediocre, as one copper into a curse doesn't matter so much at the mid-stage, and the fact that you skip the copper for them starts being a non-negligible fraction of that penalty. The simple way to look at it is, there are just fewer shuffles left for the junk to be junk, so one shuffle of skipping the junk is a bigger fraction of the total times that your opponent has to draw it for the remainder of the game.

Hitting important cards can still be quite good, but very often the opponent's deck has a lot of redundancy, so that messing one thing up is not too terribly difficult to correct with future buys. This is particularly true of a well-established engine, where they can just re-buy whatever component you're denying, and given that they're drawing lots of cards almost every turn, they get to do so quite quickly. If you play many Swindlers in a turn, it can still be very good, since it's much harder to deal with something like 4 extra terminals all-of-a-sudden, but if you are really having the chance to play 4 of a terminal payload card in a turn, there's often going to be an alternative that's better.

Strategically
Swindler is a card which really wants you to be keeping track of knowing your opponent's deck. Knowing what you're going to hit can be very nice at times (though unless you have a Spy effect, you usually only have some probability cloud of a guess). More importantly, though,you want to know what card is going to be worst for their deck. Do they have too many terminals? Not enough payload? Are they lacking +buy? Something I don't see often enough from other players, but which I feel like I do often, is giving my opponent a card and then buying the exact same card. Sure, sometimes there's a Thief on the board, and you just give them that every time because it's terrible, but especially as with more expansions we've had fewer 'bad' cards, it's more often the case that you want to give them a marginal card, and you want to make sure it's the most marginal one for their specific deck.

One place where a Swindler-heavy strategy can really work out is in an Aggro Pile deck. It's a disruptive card that slows the opponent down, and it can also take chunks out of piles. It's usually pretty hard to make this your game plan from the start, because you have little control over what you hit, but it's something to be aware of as the course of the game progresses. If piles get low enough, especially depending on your position in terms of luck and deck quality has unfolded, you might want to start angling to get that pile ending, applying pressure to either seal up a short-term advantage (most likely in points) or hoping to get lucky because you're in a very bad spot. If you get in this situation, you need to be very careful about how much you lower piles and what you do in terms of points. If you start spinning the points angle too early, then your opponent's better deck will have time to crush you. But if you continue to slam your opponent with Duchies as you are also depleting piles, this may well turn out poorly for you as well.....

Defenses
The most obvious defense you can take is to buy cards only on values where there's nothing really bad to Swindle into. You usually can't/shouldn't really make a go of this, as 5 always has Duchy, but 5-costs also tend to be really good and important to get. You should not take a big hit in card quality just to try to avoid something getting swindled, especially since it's far more likely for you to draw and use the card than for the card to get swindled. What you should do, though, is be willing to take some very marginal downgrades. The obvious kinds of examples here are something like Village over Walled Village when Thief is on the board and you aren't relying on the Walled bonus (which you almost never are). In general, 3s tend to be safer, as there aren't tons of very bad 3s, though 4s, 7s, and potion-costs are potentially actually the safest, in those cases where they're the only card at that price point available (though you do have to worry about running the pile out). Super marginal cantrips are things you can think about avoiding altogether. Pearl Diver is really the poster boy here - the chance to get turned into Estate is sometimes quite bad. On the other hand, having these means other things are less likely to get hit, so you need to figure out whether you're more in need of protecting your few key cards ("Good Stuff" decks often fall here) or staying clean and not getting yourself junked up (engines hate having an extra estate).

More importantly as defenses come other cursing attacks. It's certainly possible to get both these AND Swindler, but when the curses run out, you risk turning them back into coppers, which is very bad - at this point in the game you usually would much prefer Silver to Swindler, and because this point will come, you need to seriously consider whether the early spurt of attacking effectiveness from a 0th shuffle Swindler is worth it.

There are a number of other minor defenses. Moat and Lighthouse work about as well as they ever do (though they can get turned into Estates I suppose - this usually isn't a deciding factor though). Silver flood decks shrug Swindler off fairly well - often they give you a silver back, and worst case you're getting like a Chancellor, which really isn't that bad when you're silver-flooding. Jack of All Trades and Hermit are particularly good, since getting Coppers turned into Curses actually makes them trashable, when otherwise they wouldn't be. Against those cards, you usually skip Swindler, though I will note that if you do Swindle a copper in those cases, you should almost certainly go ahead and give the Curse. Cards with on-trash benefits help defend a fair amount (usually), but it's quite a situational thing. Be on the lookout for them, though.

Overall:
Swindler is a strong card. When cheap options are good compared to expensive ones, and especially when there are bad things to stick people with, going for multiples can be good. This can lead to pile outs, but you need to have lots of game awareness.

More often, you will get one as an annoying attack that helps you ramp up early on. There's quite a bit of variance in the card, but that doesn't mean it's bad.

44
Dominion Articles / AdamH's Hermit/Market Square revisited article
« on: March 08, 2016, 03:14:53 pm »
Adam posted this article on Hermit/Market Square revisited on reddit. It's a long article, and I've excerpted the introduction below.

Quote from: Adam H
Hermit/Market Square revisited
Shortly after Dark Ages was released, herowannabe came out of nowhere and blew our minds with the Hermit/Market Square combo. It wasn't long before this combo dominated every game we saw the two cards in -- and with good reason, Hermit/Market Square really is that good and you have to try really stinkin' hard to come up with boards where some form of this combo isn't the best thing available when played correctly.
The article I linked is a pretty good starting point; but it, and the discussion that ensued, only scratched the surface of the strategic depth this combo offers. Some of the advice given doesn't hold up in practice as well as it could, given that you are completely uncontested so rarely. Also, for such a powerful combo, some more in-depth discussion on mirror matches is appropriate. This article aims to be a new starting point on how to play the combo best in all circumstances, and what sorts of interaction you can expect from the rest of the kingdom.

45
Dominion Articles / Wandering Winder's new Governor article
« on: February 26, 2016, 01:10:07 pm »
Here is Wandering Winder’s article on Governor from his blog:

Governor is an incredibly complicated card, and not one that I hope to cover in a single article. On the other hand, I also have seen lots of players playing it as well as discussing it in what I believe to be very incorrect ways recently. And strong players at that. I'm here to try to posit what I think some key rough guidelines are, though I want to stress that I don't think I'm some master on the card, and while "every situation is different" is something you can say about Dominion in general, I think it applies a bit extra to a card with so many different options as Governor.

The Options

Draw 3 is almost always the most powerful of the benefits. The other two vary depending on exactly what kind of deck you're playing, and what point of the game you're in. But opponent drawing one is also significantly the worst of the drawbacks for you, and it is not to be underestimated.

Draw 3 on the non-terminal is like playing 2 Labs in terms of what it does to your hand, while an opponent drawing a card is like them playing a Lab. Net, you're getting a Lab effect, very roughly. Of course, there are questions of whether the returns from this are diminishing or compounding, as to which is more valuable. In general, Lab is a fine but not great card. This option is, of course, heightened when your opponent can't take advantage of their cards in a meaningful way.

Gaining a gold is sometimes fine, occasionally good, sometimes mediocre, rarely bad. However, what we're really looking at here is the difference between Gold and Silver. Maximizing that difference usually happens when cards (drawing) are at a premium. Also very relevant here is that the cost difference can be a boon with trash for benefit cards - including the third mode of Governor.

The Remodel option is often clearly the worst. Non-terminal remodel can be decent, of course, but you really need good targets, and often giving the opponent a free Upgrade is quite bad, especially early in the game. They can (usually) get rid of a copper off of this option, whereas you can't. So in the early to midgame, you want to pick your spots - 3s into 5s are often quite good, and Estate into 4 works as well IF there's a particularly good 4 for your deck.

Obvious Situations

Governor is clearly very good when there's a discard attack available (though watch out for Moat or Lighthouse), or Possession, etc. Just take the cards and be very happy at your hyper-efficient draw card. There is some depth to these situations, but I'm not going to cover them here.

"The Governor Deck"

The classic Governor strategy, and one which some players seem to think monolithic (and strong and thus boring) is to A) get as many governors as possible, B)draw a bunch of cards and gain some golds, then C) draw a zillion cards, Remodel Golds into Provinces, win the game. Another problem people have with this is that it can be quite coin-flippy as to who wins, based on whoever gets that one turn at the right moment.

However, I think this deck is both not so strong, at least without help, on the one hand (though not really weak by any stretch), but more importantly, consistently mis-played. In general, I find that people choose to draw far too often on this plan. I almost never choose to draw until I think it's going to be the last relevant turn of the game. When you do reach such a turn, it is of course safe to draw, as they can't take advantage of the extra cards if they don't have a turn to use them in.

Let's break down why I think drawing too much is a trap, even though in general Lab is probably a better card than "Gain a gold, each opponent gains a silver, +1 action". With this particular deck, when I am gaining gold, and buying something good, my deck is improving pretty significantly. Later in the game, I flip to straight remodelling, which makes my deck worse, and theirs a little better, to be fair, but with the explosiveness that is possible, the points are pretty significant. Furthermore, the silvers tend not to be so great for the opponent. Gold isn't super hot, either, but the big leg up it has is that it has good applications from merely costing 6.

Generally, drawing means you are playing for a big turn. This is going to often require multi-governors, and things to remodel. This means a lot of cards, so you need to draw a good amount. Usually, you end up spending a couple Governors to do so. If I play that way, then my opponent will have more cards in their hand to start, which means they need to spend less of their Governors for draw, which means they have more in reserve to spend on other things. That's a big game for them. Instead, if I sit there and just gain gold or remodel, now they need to use more Governors to draw, which means less to remodel with. The silvers also make it harder for them to line up Gold-Gold-Gov-Gov - it just takes so many cards. Whereas if they are going to try to draw to do this, I have pretty reasonable chances of just having Governor to remodel and be able to buy a second Province anyway.

Timing
A massive skill in these games comes in trying to judge when you need to "go for it" and try to get your big multi-province turn off, and when to punt it down the line. The things to keep your eye on are the count of Governors and of 6-costs (traditionally Gold, but something like Border Village is very very good) in both decks, whether they've yet been seen this shuffle, total cards in both decks, and the Province pile. In general, I don't like making a move until you're likely to be getting enough provinces to either end the game or that your opponent can't realistically come back in one turn - keeping in mind that these decks tend to be pretty bad at getting multiple of any green card other than Province (though your mileage may, of course, vary). Every time you draw rather than something else, you give half a Governor draw back to them. Given that they draw less, that means you're drawing half again less, too. This effect compounds (though obviously there is a limit). So over the long run, you're leaking less value to them. The other benefit of gaining Gold is that, after a while, all those silvers tend to clog them up much more than your Golds (which are especially good because you want to remodel them).

Earlier in the game, drawing can be a little better, but you have to be very careful, very tactical. You want to be getting a tangible advantage from it without giving them a commensurate advantage. Particularly, you're usually looking to maximize the 5s in your deck (specifically Governor, at the least). So if drawing is likely to get you more 5s without doing the same for your opponent, then go for it. Typical ways to do this are looking to remodel a silver into a 5 and buy another. You really need to be aware of what you're likely to draw, and have a decent understanding of your opponent's deck, too. If you're really on top of things, you can sometimes mess the opponent up by triggering bad shuffles for them - this is a level above what I see almost no one be able to do, at least on a consistent basis, though. This whole line of play tends to close out when the Governors run, though, since that's when silver starts to get worse and gold get better.

Improvements on the Governor Deck

A straight Governor deck can actually be reasonably clunky and end up playing a bit Money-like. It's significantly better if you can engine-ize it. So get your trashing going, get other sources of draw going. Then you are free to use your governor as payload, gaining Golds and then remodelling them, and also perhaps a little bit of supplemental draw/stability insurance. Yes, this is good even if it means getting fewer Governors. In all honesty, you don't need so many Governors if you go this route, and though you obviously would like as many as you can get, it's not as important as the other stuff. Cards like Upgrade, Junk Dealer, Stables, Wharf, etc. get priority, at least for a while. Lab is probably not good enough to be on that list (though you will want Labs once the Governors run out) - just to give a general impression.

Miscellany
If your opponent can't use the extra cards because they somehow only have 1 gain, you're much free-er to draw, as the worst they can do is 1 Province.
Governor is significantly weakened by Colony, just because you can't remodel into it - this makes the gaining Gold a lot weaker, which in turn makes the whole card a lot closer to Lab, which is fine but not stellar.
You can beat Governor by going for Big Money, but it needs to be very good Big Money, as you're letting them off the look in terms of drawing quite a bit.
Be cognizant of the opponent being able to upgrade into points. This means changing the order in which you do your Governor options sometimes. Sometimes that means Remodeling then drawing (though that can be risky because it cuts you off from draw+draw into extra Governors, but track your deck and know what you need). Sometimes it means Remodeling into something to SEE if they Upgrade, and then being ready to buy (or not). If you're talking about the last VP card in a pile, knock it out on your first Remodel, getting your other points later.
Usually you don't want to buy different cards just to be able to Upgrade into them - it isn't worth it. Just be aware of the different VP cards out there at different costs.
Drawing is also better against Draw-to-X. The other options (especially Remodel) can be used WITH draw-to-X.

Game Log Examples
http://gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?https://dominion-game-logs.s3.amazonaws.com/game_logs/20151127/log.0.1448666748092.txt
This game is a good example of how building up an engine, with trashing and non-Governor draw, can really get the job done, even in lieu of many Governors.
http://gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?https://dominion-game-logs.s3.amazonaws.com/game_logs/20151206/log.0.1449436309497.txt
In this game, there isn't much other engine besides Governor (potentially Minion). However, I'm able to win despite losing the split 7-3 because of how the game plays out (and good luck on draws after the point the Governors run out). Big point here is that my opponent greens too soon, and is left with too little economy left to finish the game out.
http://gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?https://dominion-game-logs.s3.amazonaws.com/game_logs/20151213/log.0.1450016138249.txt
Another game that shows how building a classic engine can be extremely effective. I get a Junk Dealer to thin down and supplement with Stables before moving in on the Governor to close things out.
http://gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?https://dominion-game-logs.s3.amazonaws.com/game_logs/20151215/log.0.1450143366761.txt
In this game, an engine built with Governor supplement is fast enough to defeat even a Rebuilding player.
http://gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?https://dominion-game-logs.s3.amazonaws.com/game_logs/20151217/log.0.1450358488753.txt
An excellent demonstration of principles. After some mutual ambassadoring, we both build. I am able to get a more consistent engine, and even though the raw power of Governor allows my opponent to still get 4 Provinces quickly, I'm always on top of things, maintaining high quality of deck to be able to put it away at leisure.

46
Dominion Articles / Wandering Winder's new Gardens article
« on: February 23, 2016, 02:10:02 pm »
All credit to Wandering Winder's blog.

Gardens: An Introduction and Dominion Theory

Ah, Gardens. For a long time, you were my favorite card.

At some point, I determined to not lose to this card - which is probably how I got the itch for all the alternate VP that came later. It's true, though, that mastery over it is not a simple thing. I have learned an awful lot, and I think there's still a chunk out there that I have yet to bite off. But let's dive in.

Running in head-long
The most naive strategy in "going for Gardens" is to just buy as many as possible as soon as possible. People don't stay on that for very long, because it doesn't take much to figure out that your deck gets so bad, you actually have to build more to be able to afford all the Gardens. But it's not too uncommon to see players who do only a few turns of preparation before starting their charge into Gardens, buying every card possible as soon as possible (i.e. maximally jamming coppers into their decks), and trying to get lots of Gardens and lots of cards more or less ASAP. Let's take a look at a couple of examples to demonstrate this kind of approach.

Candlestick Maker
I have recently seen it floating around that Candlestick Maker is one of the better "Gardens enablers", with the implication that a headlong strategy here could make real strides. The idea was to end the game around turn 17, by which point it was supposed to be not uncommon to have 6 point Gardens. Memories can apparently be faulty: In order to get to 6 point Gardens, you need to add 50 cards to your starting deck. Turn 17 means 17 natural buys, which means you need 33 additional buys from CSMs. Work out the example yourself, and you'll see that even if you stack your deck, you can't get that many - indeed, you max out at 55 if my memory serves right. However, having a best-case-scenario mentality isn't very useful anyway, so what I'm going to do here is look more at an average case. Examples like the following can show the power of theory-crafting in planning out many kinds of strategies, broadly.

Turns 1-2 you are buying CSM. Turns 3-4 you are getting, most likely 3 more. How did I come up with 3? Well, the maximum possible is 4, but to get that, you need a CSM turn 3 with at least $4, another one turn 4 with at least $4. And you can float a token, potentially. However your deck is only capable of producing $9, and 2 cards miss the shuffle. If either of those is a CSM, you're done. If they're both coppers, you once again can't get there. If both CSMs fall in the same turn, you're once again hung out to dry. There are a lot of fail cases, and indeed it's not crazy unlucky to only get 2 more (though it is fairly unlucky). So 3 is a reasonable guess. Then turns 5,6,7 will be a single shuffle, in which you are pretty likely to get the remaining 5 CSMs. At this point, you are likely to have played CSM about 6 times. Assuming you're using all your spare buys for coppers, this means you're looking at somewhere around a 23 card deck. That means you're looking at a 4 turn shuffle next, and 1-2 CSMs, on average, missing that shuffle, with it being more likely for more to miss if you have been luckier earlier and have more cards now. 4 natural buys plus 9 CSM buys gets you 13 more cards, taking you after turn 11 to around a 36 card deck. This gives you a 7 turn shuffle, in which 0-1 CSMs will miss, most likely. Thus, after turn 18, you're looking at 53 cards.

Here is where we need to start looking at what exactly we're buying on these turns. Surely lots of the buys are heading to coppers. But we're also obviously going to want to buy actual things, too. And especially with the coin tokens to smooth us out, we don't want to waste any of the 'real' money we are producing. If we're playing this headlong rush, that means we will be buying Gardens. If we go back to the point at which we're anticipating the CSMs running out, at the end of a shuffle on turn 7, we see a 23 card deck with 3 Estates, 10 CSMs, and 10 Coppers. The money density of this deck is 20/23 or about 4.35 per hand. We can also anticipate having 1-2 tokens left when we enter this stage. Given that, it seems very likely that we'll be able to buy Gardens on each of these 4 turns, along with our 9 coppers. We're likely to pick up another couple tokens as well. This means that at the start of the shuffle on turn 12, our money density will be 29/36, which is a hair over 4 per turn. Thus, we can still Gardens-per-turn for the next 4. Following this, though, we're dropping off a bit, so by the time we go for Estates, we won't be able to double consistently. Overall, then, we're looking at 20-21 turns to be able to empty our 3 piles. If we look back, this is most likely going to leave us just shy of hitting 60 cards (which would take 1-2 additional turns, average case).

So what we end up with is: 20-21 turns to empty piles and end the game, 8 5-point Gardens, and 11 Estates, for a total of 51 points. This equals the number of points from a player who is able to empty all the Provinces without trashing their Estates or touching Duchies. Of course, the problem is that this simply isn't good enough. I'm not sure if this is even good enough to be straight-up Big Money. Probably yes, but only barely. Of course, they are almost always going to have some improvement on straight money, so you'd better have an improvement on straight CSM/Gardens if this is what you want to do.

Workshop
Workshop plays out in some ways very similarly to CSM. Gain a bunch of them, buy out of the Gardens, empty the Estates. It's the most classic rush strategy in the game. In this case, we are even Workshopping the Workshops (which is not great if you're contested, but as I often say, you want to consider non-mirrors when picking strategy, and only consider mirrors when implementing). Of course, Workshop is also terminal, which means you are going to be a little bit slower to empty them, but also means you want to stop 'shopping 'shops a bit before you actually empty them (buying the last 1 or 2 when you have exactly $3, or if it gets late enough, gaining them later on). The terminal-ness of the Workshop is a pretty big downside in comparison, but this is more than compensated for by the increased economic upside. When I gain Gardens, Workshop made $4. Even when I gain Workshop, it made $3, and $2 for Estate is still better than the $1 from a CSM. Of course, collisions happen, and without tokens, you probably aren't going to be able to use all of your $$ efficiently, providing some waste. This means you won't see the full benefit of the $4 economic potential.

Still, the games will start out playing more or less the same. Then, because you're worried about collision, you start gaining Gardens a turn or two faster. The key point is that throughout the period you are gaining Gardens, you're also buying other cards which actually help you end the game (mostly Estates), as opposed to just picking up coppers. 7 turns before you start greening, into about 9 turns of gaining Gardens+Estate, plus an extra turn to finish off stragglers means you are going to be finishing somewhere around turn 7. Of course, you're going to have gained way fewer cards in that time-span - we're looking at barely 4 point Gardens as opposed to almost 6 - but the increase in speed is a big deal. 43 points is enough to outlast 6 Provinces, which in all honesty is still not all that special, but it's quite a lot better.

Some Fundamental Concepts
There are two main approaches you can take with this kind of head-first charge for Gardens. One is to try to rush down and end the game. This is great if you can actually end things fast enough, but most often, that's just not going to be possible (the major exception, of course, is the card Ironworks). The other is to try to score incredibly large numbers of points. This also tends to not be great most of the time (Beggar is, once again, a very large exception).

Does that mean that the card isn't good? No, not at all. Does it mean it's doomed to be merely an alternative to Duchy as a means for getting a few extra points at the end of a game? Sometimes, but not always. It can still be the star of the show. How? Well, headlong rushes can still happen sometimes with multiple enablers. More to the point, if you build just long enough to be getting 1-2 Provinces and THEN dive for the Gardens, things can turn out well. But most often there are one of two strategies with which this card can get you there:

Aggro Pile
If you haven't checked it out, I might suggest my previous blog post to familiarize yourself with what this deck is all about. But how Gardens comes in is, if you add some kind of attack, particularly a junker, to the Headlong rush mix, then suddenly you are in business. You're emptying piles slower, but only slightly slower. More importantly, you are slowing your opponent down quite a lot, and while you certainly aren't shrugging the junk off yourself, it doesn't hurt you nearly as badly. This thus gives you enough time to finish up piling out without getting horribly outscored by an opponent going after the big cards.

Engine
I know, it might seem crazy. But in all honesty, engines tend to be the ways to maximize Gardens. Engines love Gardens. After I made that determination to not lose to Gardens, the way I most often did was when I went head-long, and my opponent opened Chapel... and then went for Gardens.

The thing to understand here is that engines are better suited to gain more cards over the long term than virtually any other deck. Once you get a running engine, it's very common to be gaining 3,4,5, even more cards every turn, as you add a little bit of payload and maintain your draw apparatus. Going straight for enablers doesn't permit that, and over a time-span of almost any length (look at the CSM as an example), you really aren't going to be doing better than 2 cards per turn that way. The fundamental problem is that as your deck gets bigger, your shuffles get longer, and you see your enabling cards less often. In contrast, as engines get bigger, they continue to see every enabling card nearly every turn - so even though they have fewer overall, they see them much more often.

Because of this, Engine decks routinely end up to be nearly the size of your more 'traditional' Gardens decks, and especially with the help of wasting a bunch of extra final-turn buys, they can often actually end up largely, sometimes by quite a substantial margin. Chapel-ing away ten cards is insignificant against an extra card or three per turn across the remainder of the game.

As an example of this, I would like to point to this game. Of course, this isn't a comparison to a head-long rush - my opponent didn't go for Gardens, and indeed this would have been a clobbering regardless. But the point is that, in 13 turns, I was able to gain 8 Gardens and have them all be worth 5 points, and you don't do that by rushing them, you do it by building an engine. The reason why this is so powerful in an engine is that it gives you a lot of flexibility, because it's a massive well of points which you can 'float'. If your opponent goes straight for Gardens, you clean up by just taking down all the Provinces. If, though, they go for Provinces, then you have a massive reserve of points waiting for you in the form of Gardens, which means you don't really need to worry about losing a Province split by any margin other than 8-0.

Of course, there's a lot more to the card than this, but I hope this introduction has been helpful.

47
Dominion General Discussion / Best Dominion moments 2016
« on: January 07, 2016, 11:40:49 pm »
New thread for a new year. Starting this off with a long-time dream:

---------- JW: turn 1 ----------
JW - plays 5 Copper
JW - uses 1 coin token
JW - buys Doctor
JW - overpays for Doctor with 3 coins
JW - looks at Overgrown Estate
JW - trashes Overgrown Estate
JW - draws Copper
JW - looks at Necropolis
JW - trashes Necropolis
JW - looks at Hovel
JW - trashes Hovel
JW - gains Doctor
JW - draws Copper
JW - shuffles deck
JW - draws Copper, Doctor, Copper, Copper

48
Game Reports / In Which Stef’s Forge outclasses Mercenary
« on: December 22, 2015, 04:27:00 pm »


Code: [Select]
Poor House, Urchin, Envoy, Bazaar, Counting House, Jester, Treasury, Venture, Grand Market, Forge
Log here (Provinces/Estates). Stef opens Envoy/Silver, while dudeabides opens double-Urchin. Stef buys Forge on turn 3 while dudeabides doesn’t hit Mercenary until turn 6. Stef trashes the last of his starting cards on turn 8 and wins easily.

What’s the best opening here? Urchin and Mercenary can hinder both the ability to buy Forge early and the value of Forge’s trashing. However, Envoy helps to hit $7 quickly and having key engine components at 4, 5, and 6 means that Forge’s gaining is certain to be useful. With Bazaar for +Actions, it will be harder to get to double-Mercenary turns than with a $4 Village.

Should dudeabides have gone for a fourth Urchin when he didn't collide on turns 3/4 (over a Silver)? If you open Envoy-Silver but don’t hit $7, what do you buy? Jester aiming to connect Urchin-Jester? Bazaar to build the draw engine for eventual Forge trashing?

49
Dominion Articles / Wandering Winder's new Duke article
« on: December 18, 2015, 02:51:50 pm »
Figured I would post Wandering Winder's Duke article from his blog. All credit to him!

Duke is one of the most classic "alternate" victory point cards, dating all the way back to Intrigue. The complex of Duchy+Duke is also worth an enormous amount of points - potentially at least, the most possible on most of the boards upon which it appears, even more than the stack of Colonies. While there are occasionally some diverse applications for the card, the price point of $5 usually puts it out of range of rushes, and the sheer count of green cards you need for it to be effective usually disqualifies it from engines, meaning that by far its most common home is in a Slog style of deck. Let's dive in.

Duchy or Duke? Get the order right.
It doesn't take much math to figure out that, for a given number of 5-cost Victory cards, the number of points you have is maximized when Number of Duchies = Number of Dukes +3. This leads a lot of players early on to getting 3-4 Duchies and then alternating between Duchies and Dukes. This is almost always the wrong move. The reason for this is that you don't care about how many points you have right now, you care about how many points you are going to have when the game is over. And since Duchy is, on its own, a better card than Duke, you want to build up your Duchies first. If we assume we are against a Province-seeking opponent, we are looking to win the game by locking up more points than they can muster before they end it by piling out the provinces. 8 Provinces is 48 points, and to match that, we need 11 Duchy/Dukes - most optimally spaced at 7 Duchy + 4 Duke = 49 points. Thus, a rough rule of thumb is to get 7 Duchies before turning for Dukes. Not uncommonly, you'll actually go for all 8, since that is better still against an opponent that might snipe a Duchy from under you. Similarly, there are some cases where you flip for Duke a little sooner - for instance if the opponent can use Trash-for-Benefit cards to "Mill" Provinces out of the supply.

Also worth mentioning here is that, given that your opponent is playing for Provinces, you actually don't want to get Provinces of your own, even if you spike $8 for one. Just get the Duchy. It will probably be worth more points in the long run, but more importantly than that, it helps them reach their end-goal of ending the game on the Province pile much more than it advances your points lock.

Beating the Slog
There are a couple of main methods you have of trying to defeat a Duke slog.
Option one is to go over the top. A Duchy/Duke player is counting on their complex of those two cards to overpower anything else you might be doing by just being so hugely many points as to lock you out. If you can tap into a bigger wellspring, then this plan is suddenly going to look a lot less attractive to them - now they need to actually drain both piles as well as a third; you've taken inevitability away from them. Colonies are a big way to do this, nearly always invalidating the slog's plan. Jumping from $8 to $11, it turns out, is just not as big a deal as needing to go from 11 to 16 victory cards (all those extra junk cards really deteriorate the deck). While all the D/Ds would technically score more than all the Colonies, Colony player can take some Provinces or even just one duchy to flip that around. Another big way of going over the top is with VP Tokens. Golden decks score 4 points per turn in perpetuity, and with chewing provinces down a little, it can get there in a bit under 20 turns; Multi-Goons hands can easily score WAY more than any green card, and even single Goons or some Monuments, when combined with Provinces, can overcome the deficiencies of Provinces alone - though to be fair, those cards can work with Duke, too, if you can't build a deck to really capitalize on them by playing them more often. Finally, other Alt-VP cards are usually going to help a Province-seeking player against a Duke-seeking adversary. The reason for this is that the Duke player simply isn't going to have so much opportunity to buy them. If I am going for Duchy or Duke every time I hit 5, how often am I really going to be buying Gardens? While on the other hand, Gardens plus Province can, combined, go toe-to-toe with Duchies and Dukes - in short, more points just move the goal-posts, and that's not good for a player seeking to lock the opponent out on points.

The other main option is to be faster. This could mean a rush, but usually we're talking more about emptying the Provinces quickly, and the main way to do that is with a mega-turn strategy. All 8 Provinces at once is ideal, but over the course of 2-4 turns is still often going to be good enough, if you can do that reasonably quickly. Horn of Plenty is okay here, but you need very good draw for that, as you really need to empty ALL the provinces. Something like Bridges really hit the spot, though, letting you clamp down with a powerful air of finality.
"Normal" engines can get there, but they need to be pretty strong. The point here is that you need to get all the provinces, which means at some point you're going to be carrying 6 of those clunkers around in your deck. Typical engines are not built to be able to handle that. If you do want to go this route, you want to make sure you want to build "extra" before you start greening. If your engine is incredibly resilient (or if you're playing a super resilient Province-seeking Money deck, which is rare), you can even try to snipe some Duchies from your D&D opponent. It's very uncommon for this to come up, as it is going to be too much of a detriment for the engine almost always, but it does keep the D&D player "honest" - if they spend too long picking up money and neglect locking down their Duchies, you can start to give them problems.

Mirrors
A very large thing in the mirror match is winning the Duchy split. With more Duchies, you have more points already, each of your Dukes is worth more, and each of their Dukes is worth less. It's just absolutely vital. A 5-3 Duchy split means that even if Dukes go 3-5 the other way, you'll still have a 6 point lead. 6-2 and forget about it - even 1-7 on Dukes wouldn't make up the deficit. So in short, it's pretty important to not lose the split.

Having said that, you also need a plan for after the Duchies go. Sometimes, that's barreling into Dukes headlong ASAP. But usually it's a little bit more subtle. The thing is, in order to not lose the split, you probably greened pretty early, which means that when the last Duchy comes off the table, your deck is probably pretty terrible. Furthermore, being able to spike a province, or even a few provinces, is a big swing when the split was close. And if there isn't a third pile being depleted, there will almost surely be time for some provinces. Dragging out 8 estates is just really miserable (though occasionally correct). So unless there is a spammable or dropped third pile, usually the next thing to do after Duchies go is to spend a little time building - being opportunistic on price points, of course, as you generally should be when you're in the Money Density regime.

Enablers
As is generally true of slogs, we're in the money density regime, which means that treasures are just good cards. We want to hit $5 a lot here, and because we need to worry about the split, we tend to green pretty fast, which means our Money Density is pretty consistently staying below $1/card. Silvers help to bolster that a lot, and of course Golds do tremendously, though usually you aren't going to have time for lots of golds (Hoard  and Soothsayer do say hello, though). And since the deck is so bad and constantly adding green cards, Copper tends to be good, too. However, I have said this quite a bit in the past, and people tend to make too much of it. Copper tends to be a good card in these decks, but it isn't great. Against discard attacks, you usually don't want it. If you are in the mode where you're going to be looking to spike Provinces, hold off. Woodcutter variants tend to be pretty good because they let you get these coppers, but that isn't the hugest deal. Horse Traders is better, since you often have green to discard, and usually your best two cards will get you the 2 you need to make 5. Feast can help, especially if you need a third pile, though it's not stellar. Any silver-gainers tend to be quite good. Duchess, as you might expect, helps as well. Trashing attacks tend to wreck you pretty hard - trashing just one Duchy does huge damage.

Example Logs
http://gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?http://dominion-game-logs.s3.amazonaws.com/game_logs/20151211/log.0.1449869627044.txt
In this game, we've got a pretty classic match-up of slog vs engine. I have Count and Nomad Camp as enablers, he has Forager to trash down and indeed to try to contest Duchies, being able to trash them later. If he's able to do enough of this, then I will have to get a third pile empty beyond D&D, which is going to take me quite a while (either Nomad Camp or more likely Estate are the prime choices here). Indeed, he's able to get 3, which is kind of the key number here. The problem is, once he trashes all of those out, I can still overcome all the provinces with only 12 D&D - which means he needs to keep some around, but his deck can't afford that fast enough. In the end, he's probably better served by hauling towards all the provinces faster - indeed, even as was, he ends the game with 7 - though in balance, Count is a better enabler when it can straight-up gain Duchy.

http://gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?http://dominion-game-logs.s3.amazonaws.com/game_logs/20151210/log.0.1449761347012.txt
Here, I focus on treasures to slog. Mandarin is a pretty nice enabler, providing a good chunk of money and control over your draw to try to hit 5-5-5-5 more often. My opponent largely follows suit, but picks up some Nobles, an Expand, and even (most egregiously) a Vagrant over a Silver. Nobles is a fine card to have, but you have to look at your alternatives - it could have been a Gold (and at some points, Duchies). Expand is also a fine card, but not great - your deck is largely full of coppers, silvers, D&D, none of which are really great Expand targets. So it's great if you can get it with your estates, but you're not hugely likely to do that reliably enough. And Vagrant is good, but even drawing 2 cards EVERY time wouldn't be much if any better than a silver, and of course the Vagrant will still miss often.

http://gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?http://dominion-game-logs.s3.amazonaws.com/game_logs/20151209/log.0.1449697325049.txt
In this game, my opponent is able to get out to a lead in Silvers, which improves his longevity. I have to dive Duchy pretty fast to not lose the split, but where that leaves us is with his deck being quite a bit better than mine for the next phase. Crucially, as discussed above, he is able to get a couple Provinces, and this makes it so that me winning the Dukes doesn't really matter. Bureaucrat is a quite good card in these slogs, but it's not so huge to be able to overcoming such a big deficit. (No, I'm not sure how I could have played better, but probably I could have - the second BCrat is probably a mistake? And maybe I can look at building more, even risking losing the split??)[/quote]

50
Variants and Fan Cards / Conquest - discard attack and gainer
« on: November 04, 2015, 03:25:58 pm »
Conquest
$6
Action - Attack
Each other player with five or more cards in hand discards a card that costs from $3 to $6, or reveals a hand with no cards that cost from $3 to $6.
Gain a card costing up to $5.

Inspired by Tithe. Thoughts appreciated.

It feels like a strong attack to add to an engine. I'm not sure how it would play in money games: it might lead to early Duchy gaining because Duchies can be gained by Conquest and discarded to blunt the attack when an opponent plays Conquest.

Original version: (same as current)

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