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51

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Walled Village

« on: October 24, 2015, 06:44:19 pm »

Most of the games I played with Walled Village, it would have been little to no better than vanilla Village were it on the board. It doesn't matter much, however - if I need a village in my deck, I'm more than willing to pay $4 for it.

52

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions

« on: October 13, 2015, 05:24:59 am »

One that I like is Graverobber/Border Village.

1. Gain Graverobber with BV
2. Trash BV (3$ card in play) for Province
3. Gaining from BV also provides fuel for Graverobber to turn into Provinces
4. Regain BV from trash and gain another cheaper card along with it

53

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Baker Board with Chapel

« on: October 02, 2015, 02:16:28 pm »

Isn't that opening anti-synergistic with itself?

Opening Chapel means you want to go for an engine. And in engine, you'd never buy Gold over these super important $5 and $6 cards - at least early in the game, where you want to get your engine running ASAP.

Opening Gold means you think some kind of Big Money variant is dominant on this board; in which case you probably don't want Chapel at all.

I think this is an error caused by dichotomous engine/not-engine thinking. There's a wide range between boards that are so big-money oriented that one doesn't even want to buy a chapel, and boards where the engine is so good that Gold is a bad card that junks up your deck.

I think everyone else is underestimating the gold buy on this board, which will help you pick up engine pieces quickly.

Not at all. My point was not that Gold is necessarily useless in engine games (in absence of other cards, it can be a good payload), but that I'd never pick it early in the game (especially as an opener), where getting all of these engine pieces is much more important. Once I'm confident my engine is up and running, then it's time to add Golds at will.

Note: by "never" I don't mean 100% absolutely never, in any circumstances, with no edge cases. It just means that right now I can't think of any kind of board where it would be an optimal strategy. Who knows, maybe someday I'll play a kingdom which will change my mind. But as of now, I have troubles imagining board where Chapel/Gold truly is the best opener.

54

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Baker Board with Chapel

« on: September 27, 2015, 05:25:12 am »

Isn't that opening anti-synergistic with itself?

Opening Chapel means you want to go for an engine. And in engine, you'd never buy Gold over these super important $5 and $6 cards - at least early in the game, where you want to get your engine running ASAP.

Opening Gold means you think some kind of Big Money variant is dominant on this board; in which case you probably don't want Chapel at all.

55

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Black Market

« on: September 24, 2015, 09:57:53 am »

I love Black Market, for it introcuces whole new level of fun and variety in the games it appears in. There is some luck factor, but IMO it's far from comparable with likes of Swindler, Urchin, Familiar (connecting 3$ and P) or luck of getting 5/2 opening with strong junker on the board.

It's certainly among my top 5 favourite cards.

56

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Dominion One-Liners

« on: September 09, 2015, 06:32:09 pm »

Err on the side of trashing too much.

Multiplayer game with Torturer is...a brutal torture.

57

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Eliminating the obvious self-destruct aspect of game?

« on: September 06, 2015, 02:34:09 pm »

@Hertz

Having played dozens of various tabletop games, I don't think this would ever be the good approach if I wanted to attract noobies to any of them. When playing a new game, I have to immediately get (during the course of one game) why is this particular game good and interesting, why this particular game would attract me. If the game is bad or boring, I'd just abandon it and play a different game, the one I know is fun. And I genuinely can't think of many things less boring than playing Dominion with just treasures and VP cards.

My experience complies with that. A few months ago, for example, I played 3-player game with two guys who just learned Dominion two games ago. After my engine won me the game, two guys were intrigued. They even said So that's one way how to play a game and looked genuinely interested. If I, on the other hand, insisted of playing the board with just e.g. Village, Smithy and Militia, I don't doubt they wouldn't be nearly as hooked up. Same applies for me as well - what drew me to Dominion was seeing stronger players using interesting cards, combos and interactions, not painstakingly learning one or two new cards at a time.

All of that is true for other games, as well. Beginners will e.g. learn to love chess because they are shown how exciting and interesting the game can be; not because someone told them: The first few games we'll play only with king and pawns.


@OP

Not much to add to what others have already said here. If your fellow players face too many terminal collisions, the solution is to improve their game (buy less terminals/more villages), not change the fundamental rule.

58

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Literal Q&A about Dominion

« on: August 07, 2015, 12:09:43 pm »

Why does Peddler cost less the more Actions you have in play?

Poor Peddler despises his life of trading and coin and fancies himself an Action hero.

Why can you, literally, gain a cheaper card when you buy Border Village?

59

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Literal Q&A about Dominion

« on: July 12, 2015, 06:00:11 am »

Sounds fun.

The Conspiracy wants to help you, but they ask that you prove yourself true to them with Actions, not words.

Why does Apothecary want you to have so many coppers?

60

Game Reports / Re: Is Butcher really this strong?

« on: June 10, 2015, 06:40:27 am »

BM+Butcher is indeed strong; but shouldn't BM+Witch and BM+Soothsayer both be stronger on this board?

Overall, this looks like a board with tons of good BM cards: Soothsayer, Witch, JOAT, Butcher, Embassy.

61

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Cards you hate!

« on: June 07, 2015, 12:47:33 pm »

Silver

Really? Without Silver, it would be a LOT harder to get up to $5 and $6 cards, and you'd need a lot of Gold to buy Provinces!

Okay, so in the spirit of making this a teachable moment...

Yes, an early Silver (or something that gives you $2) makes it rather easier to get $5 cards, but if you look through the game logs of top players or watch the streams, you will find that, surprisingly often, the Top 100 only buy the one, and they might even trash it or pass it later on after it's served its purpose.

And there are surprisingly many games when top players never buy (or even gain) one at all, and yet these are often games that are over in like 12 or 13 turns. Once you figure out how this works, your rating cannot help but go up a lot.

I try not to but too many Silvers when I'm playing with an Engine, but you really need a 'slighshot' card like Moneylender or Baron to get you up to 6 on turn 3 so that you can jump right to Gold. With BM, however, a Silver is almost always a good buy.

See, when playing an engine, you usually want up to 1 silver, just to help you reach $5 on your second shuffle. And when you do get "slinged" to $5 or $6, the card you want to be buying is not gold, but some powerful engine piece.

You want to get your engine up and running as fast as possible, and Gold will not help there (it may even hinder you, by making your engine pieces less likely to connect). Instead, $5/6 is price level that contains some pretty powerful engine cards you want to get ASAP (of course, depending on a board): cards that let you draw (Wharf, Journeyman, Stables...), slow down your opponent (Mountebank, Witch, Goons...), are powerful trashers (Upgrade, Junk Dealer...), offer some other benefits or combine any of the above (Margrave, Minion, Governor...). In engines, all of these are more important than an early Gold.

62

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Scout is bad, not horrible?

« on: June 07, 2015, 07:46:43 am »

IIRC, I think that in my few hundreds games of online Dominion, I've played Scout exactly once (and even that was BoM as Scout). Like everything else in Dominion, I guess Scout has its uses, but in this particular case - it's so niche that you'd have to design a board for it.

With that said, I think Scoiut should be evaluated while keeping in mind and expansion it was a part of - Intrigue; which can also be played as a standalone game. And in such surroundings, Scout is better than usual (which is admittedly, not saying a lot), as it has much better chances of being part of the same board as Nobles, Great Hall, Harem, Wishing Well...

63

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Cards you hate!

« on: June 04, 2015, 08:39:49 am »

Top 3:

Possession - for it ruins what I consider to be in the heart of Dominion: build your own deck and use it to win the game. Suggested methods for dealing with it (junk up your deck) often take away from enjoyability of the game.

Cultist - pseudo-combines 2 powerful $5 cards (Lab and Witch) into one and then adds on-trash benefit. Sometimes absurdly powerful, sometimes less so, but enough to cause majority of the boards it appears in to turn into cultist races.

Torturer - anyone who likes this card probably hasn't seen how efficiently can it kill multiplayer game. One such was first and only time I've ever come close to rage-quitting in Dominion.

Honorable mentions:

Familiar - way too swingy for how powerful it is. No other curser can lead to 10-0 and 9-1 curse splits in mirror games.

Smugglers - this is my personal pet peeve. While objectively not a top $3 card, I just dislike an idea of piggybacking on your opponent's purchase to build up your own deck (similar objection to Possession). Its interaction with Grand Market is especially jarring.

64

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Fool's Gold, ACTIVATE!

« on: May 26, 2015, 11:46:01 pm »

Best trasher hindered by Poor House, no villages...this doesn't sound like a board where engine would be optimal. I guess you could use Foragers to thin, then buy mass Peddlers, then add additional payload if necessary, but that seems outclassed by Council Room + FG. Ditto Vineyard strategy.

I'd open either CR/FG or SM/FG with later transition into Council Room.

65

Dominion General Discussion / About kingmaking

« on: May 20, 2015, 05:40:48 am »

Kingmaker (in the context of gaming) = player who can decide the winner of the game while having no chances of winning himself.

Ok, I realize this is a niche subject, as it encompasses rare scenario in already rare multiplayer Dominion; but I think it would be an interesting topic to discuss, as it touches upon fair play, etiquette and ever-loved edge cases.

I firstly encountered it years ago, while still unfamiliar with the term and while playing a different game. It was a 4 player Ad Astra game where, in the end, only leading two players had the chance of victory, while myself and 4th player were way far behind. So, in the last round where everybody was prepared to cash in points, I played in a way that completely screwed up one of leading players and enabled his rival an easy victory. It was not my intention, of course - I simply played in a way which would maximize my own score (regardless of having zero chances of winning), while messing up with other guy's plan was just a side-effect. After the game we had a discussion of whether this was a fair play from me or not.

I found myself on the other side of this case a while ago, in a 3P Dominion game. Basically, Player B was much ahead of me, but my deck was quickly catching up. Problem was, Province pile was running low and Player A, whose turn it was and who had no chances of victory at all, could effectively decide the game by buying penultimate Province and a Duchy. That way, I wouldn't have enough VP cards to buy to catch up with Player B. However, Player A, whatever his motive was, bought only Duchies, which enabled me to Double Province and tie for first with Player B.

So, how should I and Player A have played in our respective cases? Was it right for us to play our best, or was it more important not to mess up with the players vying for victory. I personally think the former is more fair, but I've met people who don't share this opinion. Hence, I'm asking - and I'm interested in hearing your opinions on this subject.

66

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Adam is bad at kingdom design

« on: May 20, 2015, 05:16:34 am »

Would this thread help?

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=11251

67

Game Reports / Re: Worth buying King's Court?

« on: April 28, 2015, 07:13:53 am »

This would be a good engine even without KC. And with KC around, it's vastly superior to any money strategy.

68

Help! / Re: Back to Engines 101

« on: April 21, 2015, 11:47:13 am »

Thanks for answers all

For those who suggest engin-y approach to second board - how would you go about it? What would you open? What's the payload (Throned Monuments? ). Is it competitive with e.g. Monument + BM ?

69

Help! / Back to Engines 101

« on: April 18, 2015, 11:59:43 am »

Hello, I'd like feedback on following two games:

I. The game that inspired the title: http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?20150417/log.515c0c7ce4b093d38b19b125.1429279117344.txt

Code: [Select]

Moat, Pawn, Fishing Village, Masterpiece, Bridge, Coppersmith, Farming Village, Outpost, Stables, Vault
Here I was soundly and utterly beaten. Plan here is obvious: mass Bridges, have many Fishing Villages to support them, and Stables to draw your deck. I had 5/2 and went for Stables/Moat (I thought with many FV around, draw from Moat will be useful). However, despite making some suboptimal decisions in the start, my opponent was ahead from the beginning, was in control the entire time and finished the game on 3 piles when it suited him. I obviously did something wrong, and I'm eager to learn what. What were my mistakes?

II. Money-ish game: http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?20150418/log.516e5d7fe4b082c74d7d6bc6.1429371123429.txt

Code: [Select]

Workshop, Feast, Island, Monument, Throne Room, Treasure Map, Baker, Bazaar, Cartographer, Rogue
No real +buy (Workshop and Feast being inferior substitutes), no trashing and no draw - looked like a money-ish board to me. I decided to try Island+BM, while my opponent opened with Workshop/Baker, which seemed too slow to me. I had misfortune of his Rogue hitting my Gold on turn 5, but still I managed to amass solid Province lead. When it seemed that game might slog out for a while, I bought Baker for tokens. Game ended on 3-piling (Islands, Estates, Duchies), as neither of us wanted to break the PPR. I won barely (2 points), although I thought my strategy should be much better. Is this assumption wrong or was my execution bad?


edit: posted wrong log

70

Dominion General Discussion / Re: How to Teach People Dominion & Introduce New Expansions to Them

« on: April 10, 2015, 11:03:20 am »

From my experience, it was never really needed to cater the board to the new players. I always simply draw 10 random cards (excluding Torturer and Spy) from 3 sets I won (Base, Prosperity and Intrigue), explain them rules, victory conditions and specifically what each kingdom card does. Only advice I tell them is to watch from 3-pile ending and play accordingly. That's it.

And people respond quite well. Regardless of the board new players were very pleased with the game and eager to explore various strategies and card combos they just discovered. Without every playing on "noob-friendly" board (or however you'd call it), new players invariably had fun with Dominion and asked for at least 1 more game. And cards they always liked playing with the best are ones that offer lots of player interaction. It's very pleasing to new players to hit 3 of their opponents with Witch, Saboteur or Rabble. It was amazing to have them play with Masquerade for a first time and see them mischievously grinning as they pass on Curse and receive Silver in return. And the card we have most fun with was definitely Contraband, and all the guessing which card should one prohibit from buying.

I think this element of exploring new possibilities and ways to play the game is quite important to a new player to actively enjoy from the game. As for myself, whether I learned something simple such as Resistance or something as complex as Terra Mystica or Agricola, independent "diving" into the game without expert guidance was best part of the learning experience. Same applies for Dominion as well.

71

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Kingdom Selection methods in real life?

« on: April 10, 2015, 10:42:30 am »

I own three sets (Base, Intrigue and Prosperity) and whether I'm playing with familiar people or introducing them to new players - the method is the same: randomly draw 10 cards, discard ones which are unsuitable to multiplayer or take forever to resolve (basically just Torturer and Spy) and draw new ones if necessary. Often we play in veto mode where we draw more cards, and each players vetoes exactly one until 10 remain.

I never found it necessary to hand pick cards based on opponents' level - most random sets of 10 are fun and interesting to play with.

72

Dominion General Discussion / Re: New to the Board and Game.

« on: April 10, 2015, 10:31:40 am »

1. Above all else, play for fun and enjoy the game. Improve at any pace you feel comfortable with

2. Gradually get familiar with all the cards you're playing with. If you want to do it casual way, just play games. If you want to do it pro way, in addition go to wiki.dominionstrategy.com and read articles on the cards. With practice, you'll get a hang of which card is good or bad in which circumstances.

3. While playing - before your first turn, analyze the board you're facing. Search for key components (+cards, +action, +buy, trashing, attacks...) and try to see how they synergize with each other. Among other things, this is something that Adam Horton videos () are great to learn from - as he usually talks about the board for a minute or two before he starts playing. It's ever educational to see how better players than you think and analyze the board

When you analyzed the board, formulate a strategy and stick with it through the game (which doesn't mean that you should be inflexible and not adapt to what your opponent is doing). If you won, it means your strategy had at least some merit (though of course you should always try to improve). If you lost, see where you went wrong. Maybe your strategy was inferior; maybe it was good but your execution was suboptimal. Whatever the case is, try to learn from yours and your opponent's mistake and get better for the next game.

4. As always, watching records of top players is quite a good way to improve your game. I myself have mostly watched WW's youtube channel (), but there are tons of other great ones as well.

5. Have fun playing (this can't be emphasized enough)

73

Help! / Re: My Opponent wins with horrible-looking strategy

« on: March 26, 2015, 06:32:16 am »

Consider Alchemist strategy here:

1) bunch of junk from opponent's Maaruders
2) no trashing at all
3) no source of +buy, except Ruined Market

1) and 2) mean you're going to be very slow with setting up your Alchemist chain, while 3) means that once you do set it up, your payload can be only 1 Province per turn. Overall, not worth it.

I agree with pubby here: buy two Marauders, several Lighthouses and money. Spoils from Marauders will also help in your money stretegy.

74

Help! / How to approach this kingdom

« on: March 26, 2015, 06:14:41 am »

I played this interesting kingdom today (Shelters/Provinces):

Code: [Select]

Fool's Gold, Develop, Swindler, Tunnel, Nomad Camp, Band of Misfits, Bazaar, Explorer, Tactician, Vault
I started pretty cluelessly, and only during the course of the game began noticing various (and numerous) interesting card interactions. So, how would you approach this board (on 4/3 opening):

1) Swindler + BM, maybe later transposing into Vault+BM
2) Vault + BM from the start, or Vault + FG
3) Nomad Camp + FG, with Tactician later
4) Double Tactician with Vault
5) anything else I'm missing?

Actual game may not be most interesting, since both myself and my opponent missed many stuff, but if anyone's interested in log: here it is.
http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?20150326/log.515c0c7ce4b093d38b19b125.1427363472231.txt

75

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions

« on: March 23, 2015, 09:25:25 pm »

Journeyman + Fairgrounds
Chapel + Gardens
Counting House + Poor House
Highway + Bishop

I wondered about possible Black Marker combos:

BM+Poor House - play BM and all the treasures with it, thus maximizing the worth of your Poor Houses
BM+Mandarin - buy Mandarin from BM deck, topdecking your treasures and then drawing them again. This enables you to use same treasure cards again in the same turn.

The problem is that you're spending $5 on Mandarin and then you have to actually draw those Treasure cards again, when you could've just not spent the $5 and drawn just as many other cards.

Yeah, but the "neat" part is using the same treasures twice - once for buying Mandarin, and then the second time. I don't think that any other Dominion interaction allows for that.