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Messages - Holger

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51
Puzzles and Challenges / Re: The Ultimate Legal Fairground
« on: October 19, 2022, 07:50:59 am »
Now with Allies, Fairgrounds can be worth 26VP.

Basic Supply (with Platinum and Colony) - 9
Shelters - 3
Young Witch - 1  (it's a free 11th pile)

We have 10 kingdom cards to fill.  One must be Fairgrounds.  That leaves 9.

Fairgrounds - 1
Knights - 10
Castles - 8
Marauder/Ruins/Spoils - 7
Tournament/Prizes - 6
Page/Travelers - 5
Peasant/Travelers - 5
Exorcist/Spirits - 4
Town Crier/Blacksmith/Miller/Elder - 4
Student/Conjurer/Sorcerer/Lich - 4

Total: 67 unique cards.  Is it possible to add 70th card without Landscapes?

I don't see how. But e.g. the event Stampede can add the card Horse.
However, Platinum/Colony can't be in a kingdom without Prosperity cards by the usual rules for their inclusion, so it's only 66 unique cards.

52
Puzzles and Challenges / Re: The highest Plateau
« on: October 11, 2022, 05:37:32 pm »
Dominion strategy lists 53 2 cost cards and card shaped things I may have missed a few events, but I tried to subtract the events and heirlooms. I forgot about estates, but still only count 7 2 costs not directly available through the BM or the Supply. Do note that at least 2 of these are in split piles, but that doesn’t matter for BM

Exchanging doesn’t work with cards in the BM, so vampire must be in the supply. Also, imp gainers in the BM can get more than 1, despite only counting 1 in my math.

There are 7 $2 Events, 3 $2 Heirlooms, Bat, Estate - subtracting those from 53 gives 41.

You're right about Vampire not exchanging from the BM. Fortunately, swapping Vampire with a $2 kingdom card doesn't change the total number of $2 cards, which remains at 202 by my count.

53
Puzzles and Challenges / Re: The highest Plateau
« on: October 04, 2022, 02:13:57 pm »
Additionally, black market can add some. There are 53 2-cost cards, but 6 are events or heirlooms, so 47. With the 1 imp gainer, you have 39 2-cost cards eligible for BM, making black market an increase of 29 cards or 58vp.

BTW, are there really 47 2-cost kingdom cards? http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Dominion_Card_Glicko only mentions 41 as of 2020 (42 "0-2 cost cards" minus Poor House). Since then, Allies has added 3 new $2 cards, but the 2E's of seaside and Hinterlands have removed another 3 $2 cards (replacing them with more expensive cards), so the total number should remain 41, not 47.

Edit:
There's also the non-kingdom card Bat at $2, which you could get from a Black Market Vampire.

So if you allow Black Market as Way of the Mouse and put Masquerade, Shepherd (for the 3rd $2 Heirloom Pasture), Young Witch, the Imp gainer, Vampire and all other $2 kingdom cards into the BM deck, you could get

Card                   Number of $2 cards (including starting cards)

Bauble                    10 (+any number of Favors)
10 other $2 cards: 100 (including Pixie, Tracker)
Estates                   30 (12+6*3)
Imp                        13
Heirlooms               18 (6*3)
BM deck                 31 (41 - 11 $2 kingdom cards +Bat)
                         -------------
                           202  $2 cards, for 404 VP

54
Puzzles and Challenges / Re: The highest Plateau
« on: October 02, 2022, 08:33:28 am »
lurker can get you another 15 in 6 player games, rather than just 9 from 4 player games.

Additionally, black market can add some. There are 53 2-cost cards, but 6 are events or heirlooms, so 47. With the 1 imp gainer, you have 39 2-cost cards eligible for BM, making black market an increase of 29 cards or 58vp.

Masquerade is another way to get the estates from another player, and get the 3 heirlooms. loosing the 9 from lurker (one into the BM deck), that gives an additional 6 cards or 12 vp. Of course, linked cards in the BM deck.

Why are pixie and tracker 11 in the math? Assuming that’s right, 164 cards and 328vp.

Black Market is not allowed according to the OP. ;-)

Both Pixie and Tracker are a pile of 10 $2 kingdom cards plus a $2 heirloom, so 11 $2 cards each.

Masquerade could indeed give you another 5 Pouches and Goats each in 6p-games, but without BM you lose a 10-card $2 pile, so it doesn't change the total VP you can get.

55
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Fan errata on pre-existing cards
« on: October 02, 2022, 08:08:45 am »
Possession still has problems with exile, villagers/coffers, self debt, and VP tokens.

At the end of your turn, the player to your left takes an extra turn, during which you see what they see and make their choices for them, and any tokens they have are replaced by your token pools. Any cards that would be trashed, exiled, or returned to the supply are set aside and discarded at the end of turn. Cards exiled from the supply are instead returned at the end of turn. Any cards discarded from exile are exiled at the end of turn.

For online Dominion, the most elegant fix imo would be just to return the possessed player's deck, discard pile, hand, play area, tokens etc. to the exact state at which they were before the extra turn (except that the deck is re-randomized). So Possession stops being hurtful to the possessed player in any way, while keeping its "intended" functionality.

But for real-life play it would often be very tedious to reset the deck to its previous state.

This is actually something that Possession aims to do already, but it is just very hard to formulate this in a future proof way. I mean, Masquerade is also a thing. And I think returning to the pile is the thing that needs to be fixed most urgently, to make Way of the Horse not completely degenerate. (it is also a universal mechanic).

They could also end with "any cards of theirs that moves anywhere aside from their hand, deck, discard or play area are set aside and put in their discard pile at the end of turn", although that interacts weirdly with Masquerade and Reserves, and could open another can of worms.

Possession aims to do that, but it still falls short of that aim despite many errara, mainly w.r.t. deck ordering and removing cards from the deck other than by trashing (including "return to supply" and passing with Masquerade). My suggested fix could literally be worded as "At the end of that turn, the possessed player's deck, discard pile, hand and everything else belonging to them are returned to the exact state at which they were before the extra turn, with the deck reshuffled."
So the "formerly possessed" player gets to play with the same hand they drew before the Possession turn, and any cards or tokens they lost during that turn are returned to them.

I don't see an obvious "future-proofing" problem with that; and anyway you could always make new errata should future mechanics make it necessary. It would also work with Masquerade; the passed card remains in the other player's deck despite also returning to the possessed player's deck - if there's no copy of that card left in the supply, the online server can just create a virtual extra copy of that card.
(For IRL play, I would just not allow Possession and Masquerade to be in the same kingdom, or forbid Masquerade from being played on Possession turns.)

56
Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest #164: Read the Fine Print
« on: September 29, 2022, 03:25:21 am »


Quote
Mad Alchemist - $4
Action
If you have Toxic Vapors, you may put a card from your hand onto your Tavern mat, for +4 Cards and +1 Action.
----
When you gain this, take Toxic Vapors.

Quote
Toxic Vapors
State
When scoring, -1% per 2 cards you have on your Tavern mat (round up).

A draw 2 that can put a card from hand onto your Tavern mat to be non-terminal and draw 2 more cards. The catch is that everyone starts with the Toxic Vapors state, which makes players lose VP based on how many cards are on their Tavern mat. Toxic Vapors being a State made the most sense. I had a design without the State, but it was a lot of reading and it multiplied the VP lost by how many Mad Alchemists you had, which was not what I wanted. Feedback is appreciated.

Edit: Changed Toxic Vapors to penalize more aggressively.  Mad Alchemist now plays more like Stables and requires you to have Toxic Vapors to function. Players now only take Toxic Vapors when they gain a Mad Alchemist. These changes should nerf Mad Alchemist and prevent hosing other cards that use the Tavern mat. The draw 4 cards may still be too good, but I want the card to be tempting. Should this be changed to just daw 3 cards? Feedback is appreciates.
Thanks to scott_pilgrim, 4est, and LibraryAdventurer

Old Version(s)


My feedback: I would certainly reduce the draw to +3 cards, and probably even to +2 cards - a lab that pseudo-trashes is still very good at $4 (compare e.g. with Junk Dealer at $5, or Spice Merchant which is limited to trashing Coppers), and the penalty of -0.5 VP per exiled card is still mild enough to be worth it. E.g. you only get a net -2VP from exiling all starting cards, and you can green much earlier with the ability to get "5.5 VP" Provinces out of your deck.

57
Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest #164: Read the Fine Print
« on: September 26, 2022, 11:43:27 am »


Quote
Virus Lab - $3 - Action

+2 Cards
+1 Action
Reveal your hand. If you revealed any Curses, gain a Curse.
-
When you gain this, gain a Curse to the top of your deck.

In games without a possibility to get rid of the Curses, this is worse than a do-nothing cantrip. (The lab's card draw and the when-gain curse cancel each other out over each shuffle, except for the -1VP, and you will likely not be able to play Virus Lab or get further curses several times).

In the more common case where you can trash curses, Virus Lab may be worth buying, but you still risk a Rats-like cascade of Curses if you're unlucky to draw a Curse from playing Virus Lab itself.

58
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Fan errata on pre-existing cards
« on: September 24, 2022, 09:38:55 am »
Possession still has problems with exile, villagers/coffers, self debt, and VP tokens.

At the end of your turn, the player to your left takes an extra turn, during which you see what they see and make their choices for them, and any tokens they have are replaced by your token pools. Any cards that would be trashed, exiled, or returned to the supply are set aside and discarded at the end of turn. Cards exiled from the supply are instead returned at the end of turn. Any cards discarded from exile are exiled at the end of turn.

For online Dominion, the most elegant fix imo would be just to return the possessed player's deck, discard pile, hand, play area, tokens etc. to the exact state at which they were before the extra turn (except that the deck is re-randomized). So Possession stops being hurtful to the possessed player in any way, while keeping its "intended" functionality.

But for real-life play it would often be very tedious to reset the deck to its previous state.

59
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Fan errata on pre-existing cards
« on: September 21, 2022, 11:14:35 am »
Sadly, other cursers are still very much relevant when Charlatan is on the board. At the very least, Sea Witch is still stronger than Charlatan even when it gives out Treasure Curses.

Why "sadly"? I haven't played with Charlatan yet, but in principle it sounds like good design to me if one curser doesn't automatically dominate all others.
Do you think that Sea Witch is too strong, or that Charlatan is too weak, if Charlatan's nerfing of other cursers still doesn't make it superior to them in games with several cursers?

60
Rules Questions / Re: Donating your Entire Hand
« on: September 07, 2022, 09:55:53 am »
Actually, it can potentially be a good move to softlock yourself by trashing your deck, in rare situations:

Assume there's only one Province left, you can't buy it on your turn, and your opponent has trashed down their deck down to only a few Possessions and Villages with Donate, remaining in debt. If they will certainly be able to use your deck to gain the last province for a win before your next "own" turn, then donating your entire deck guarantees you a stalemate instead of a certain loss.

It might also be possible for this to be a good move in order to get an insurmountable lead due to Tomb (and thus a stalemate), if you would certainly lose without the Tomb VPs.

61
Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest #160: Two Base Cards
« on: August 17, 2022, 08:46:50 am »
Moray


Worth 1 VP per 2 coppers
Heirloom: Silver
$7 Victory

Like Feodum and Counting house, this card will alternate between a powerhouse, and useless. But unlike those cards this Moray will always had a large impact on the start of each game by replacing one of the starting coppers with a silver.

I fear this will only be a powerhouse with Beggar (and possibly Banquet), and be useless at least 95% of the time.
In the absence of Beggar, I'd try this at $4, so it would at least be a cheaper Duchy (with the potential to get extra VPs from late-game copper buys) in games where you can't trash coppers. You already need to buy three Morays to get the same 15 VP with 10 coppers that Fountain gives you for free.

Replacing a starting Copper by Silver is problematic because a 5/3 opening is usually much stronger than a 4/4 opening. And Moray would be stronger without an Heirloom attached...

62
Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest #160: Two Base Cards
« on: August 14, 2022, 04:54:00 pm »
Here's my submission:

Crone
Action-Attack-Reaction
$3
+2 Cards
Each other player with 5 or more cards in hand gains a Curse.
-
When another player plays an attack, you may first reveal this to discard a Copper or a Curse.
Never ever a $3, otherwise you will double open without even thinking.
Looks even too strong at $4. Sure, Young Witch is weakish but it makes the attacker discards two whereas here the defender needs to discard one.

With it reacting to itself, I thought if both players open with it then you're not as likely to receive a curse at the beginning of the game and you'll draw into probably money at first too. I was on the fence on it being 3 or 4 cost though,

For finding a fair price, I would mainly look at the non-mirror. (A curser that can only be countered by mirroring it is rather uninteresting.) And in the non-mirror, this is usually a vanilla Witch, which costs $5.

63
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 3
« on: July 26, 2022, 04:02:31 pm »
Sorry! I've been reading and writing the wrong verb several times.
When Joefarebrother wrote "right but you're revealing them *from* a private zone" I misread and thought he was talking about discarding, not revealing. (The emphasis on "from" confused me.) And then in my last post, I even wrote "reveal" when I meant "discard". :p

So I have to start again. Yes, now the argument makes more sense. Hmmm. I guess I was thinking that there's a special rule for when-discard cards that you have to reveal them, even Village Green, Weaver and Trail, which are moved to play for all to see. There's no such rule for Sheepdog etc.

Actually, Tunnel is the only "when discard" card with an explicit "reveal", for accountability reasons. The other "when discard" cards (Trail, Weaver, Village Green and Faithful Hound) do not have it, since they already become public by being played/set aside when you use their "when discard" ability, just like Fortress becomes public when trashed (for a single moment).

So discarding in general is different from gaining/trashing in terms of "publicness",  though it's debatable whether this is a good reason for deciding what should be a Reaction - as discussed, all "when discard" Reactions specifically make themselves public while reacting. There's also the case of Patron's "when reveal" - it's triggered from a public position by definition, yet it is a Reaction.
 
I do think that without the colouring, it would be easier to miss e.g. Weaver's ability with a Minion discard, than to miss Fortress' ability when trashing it. But that's unrelated to public/private information; like Donald said, the point is "to draw your attention to a card you're not paying attention to".

FWIW, I wish Scheme was a Reaction, for that same reason. In RL games, I forget to use its clean-up ability about half the time I've played it... :-[

64
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 3
« on: July 26, 2022, 05:52:12 am »
But by the time the when-trash effect takes place, the card is in the (public) trash, no?
Yes, we discussed that already in the posts you're quoting. You're moving a card being trashed to a public place, but that is also the case for a card being discarded.

GendoIkari is right, not all discards happen publicly: e.g. discarding your hand to Minion, where other players only see the top card you discarded. So the other hand cards go from a private place (hand) to a completely hidden place (discard pile), without being revealed before discarding.
Same with Cartographer from this expansion when you discard several cards - though in this case, since you have carefully chosen which cards to discard, you'll rarely miss a discard reaction anyway.

65
Some Shelters for Empires.

Broker
$1
Treasure - Shelter

$2
___________________________________________
When you discard this from play take 4 debt tokens

Stall
$1
Reaction - Shelter

Whenever you gain a card you may reveal this from your hand and discard it for +1 Buy

Gatehouse
$1
Victory - Shelter

Worth 9VP if you have 1 Broker, 1 Stall and 1 Gatehouse.


Notes
- Gatehouse follows the Empires theme of promoting potentially unusual strategies. If you hang on to these three shelters they will also effectively be a Duchy each at the end of the game.
- Broker potentially gives you a Silver in your starting hand to potentially spike some better cards on turn 1 and 2. If you use it though you have to pay back double the debt.
- For the third card, I deliberately wanted a weak card that didn't do a lot but could allow for some tricks in the right circumstances.
- I deliberately avoided making an action card to limit the number of cards that would allow you to trigger Gatehouse's points by exiling the cards. With that constraint I though a Shelter-Treasure, Shelter-Reaction and Shelter-Victory gave a nice mix.

I really like Broker and Gatehouse.  But AFAICS Stall is equivalent to a nonterminal Ruined Market except for the card type, and the rather rare case where you can redraw it after discarding, where it gives several +Buys. IMO,  this doesn't justify the increased complexity (and much longer card text) so I would just make it a Action Treasure with +1 Buy (or maybe + 2 Buys for a slightly stronger card).

Edit (in italics): Unlike Ruined Market, Stall does not use up an Action. So making it a Treasure instead of an Action comes much closer to your original concept.

66
Blockade sets a card aside, which is only a little less visible than Embargo tokens. Besides, the player blockading is going to be watching others pretty closely to make sure they don’t forget.
IMO there's a big difference in visibility: You have to physically lift the Embargo token to buy a card from that pile, so it's almost impossible to miss.
But a set-aside card lying in an opponent's area together with other cards (Blockade, sometimes other durations) is hard to remember, as usually no other cards in an opponent's area effect you during your turn.

67
Contraband isn't in Prosperity 2E, it was "replaced" by War Chest.
Which subscription level grants access to the “Deprecated” cards?
I have them with “Complete”, of course. I’m sure this has been answered elsewhere, but figured people reading this thread might want to know.
Since the OP does not have Contraband in their subscription, I assume they're not contained in "Core" - which would be strange, since most of them are conceptually simpler than their replacements, and certainly in the simpler half of all cards.

68
If you look at the card pool levels (should be a button for it somewhere on the automatch tab), you can see what cards are in each level. Everything level 5 and below is part of Core.

At "New table", I can click on levels 1 to 10, but no cards are shown except for level 1 (=base set). Probably that's because I don't currently have a subscription. But my point is that I want to know what I would get with a Core subscription before buying it.

Have you, or anyone without a sub, tried the “View Card Pools” button on the Automatch screen? You should be able to pick any level (across the top) and it will show what all is there - under “New Cards” by default.

I've found it, thank you for the help!
I play the game in German, where there is no button named "Automatch" (or a German translation of that word), but switching languages, I've found it in the English version - apparently "Automatch" is called "Spiel finden" in the German version. ???

Ordering the cards by concepts (as described there) sounds good in principle. But it doesn't explain why Forge is in level 6, it does not fit to any of the four concepts given for that level. (Neither do Hoard, King's Court or JoaT, for that matter...) And I can't find Contraband in any level's "New cards"... ???

69
If you look at the card pool levels (should be a button for it somewhere on the automatch tab), you can see what cards are in each level. Everything level 5 and below is part of Core.

At "New table", I can click on levels 1 to 10, but no cards are shown except for level 1 (=base set). Probably that's because I don't currently have a subscription. But my point is that I want to know what I would get with a Core subscription before buying it.

70
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Interview with Donald X.
« on: July 01, 2022, 05:24:16 pm »
Is that something that tends to trip up newbies, in your experience?  Have you ever considered trying to address it? I mean, outside the coffers change.
For sure it's bad that the buy phase is really two phases. Either it should be clearly two phases - the easy fix to keeping all the cards mostly as-is - or it should be that you can keep playing treasures after buying cards - which breaks various things but would have worked great if done at the start.

Could you (or someone else) clarify what would "break" if you could play treasures after buying cards? With Merchant Guild errata'ed, I can't think of any card which would be broken when allowing this...

You could e.g. buy Grand Market, then play Coppers to buy something else, or buy Mint with only your Coppers in play and then play your other Treasures to buy something else.

Sure, but that doesn't break anything either IMO - Mint can actually use this small buff, while Grand Market is very strong with or without the change (and you could just increase its price e.g. to $7* to compensate).

71
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Interview with Donald X.
« on: July 01, 2022, 04:40:44 pm »
Is that something that tends to trip up newbies, in your experience?  Have you ever considered trying to address it? I mean, outside the coffers change.
For sure it's bad that the buy phase is really two phases. Either it should be clearly two phases - the easy fix to keeping all the cards mostly as-is - or it should be that you can keep playing treasures after buying cards - which breaks various things but would have worked great if done at the start.

Could you (or someone else) clarify what would "break" if you could play treasures after buying cards? With Merchant Guild errata'ed, I can't think of any card which would be broken when allowing this...

72
Right, the previous "Silver" and "Gold" subscriptions have been replaced by "Core" and "Complete" subscriptions when Allies was released on dominion.games. You can find the details on the Shuffle iT forum, but JW already explained the main part.

Players wanting to familiarize themselves with cards can now choose to play with only cards of a certain maximal level (1-10), ranging from easy to complex. This means the amount of new cards when one "goes up one level" is much smaller than before, where you had only 3 options: base only (level 1 now), Silver subsctiption, or Gold subscription (all cards, level 10 now).

The old Silver subscription was honored for players that had it, so you didn't see any cards removed until you bought the new Core subscription.

If anything is unclear, feel free to ask!

Is there a list of "Core" cards somewhere, or a detailed explanation by what criteria a card is given a level? I don't see cards like Contraband or Forge as being more complicated than Bishop or City, rather the contrary.

73
Simulation / Re: Non transitive challenges - 2nd Edition
« on: July 01, 2022, 12:09:49 pm »
It'd be hard to formalize this spirit indeed. IMO a trio of strategies shouldn't qualify if someone finds another strategy D that beats (or ties) all three.

In your example, I think you get such a strategy D by removing the crippling from strategy C, and only buying Masterpiece when there is less than 10 copies of it in the supply.

Then D would tie with B, being the identical strategy when the opponent doesn't gain any Masterpieces.
D beats C due to the latter's crippling (and I think it would tie with uncrippled C, as Banqueted Masterpieces give the same $ and VP as Coppers).
And D probably still beats A, as contesting the Masterpieces only after A has bought the first one should still be enough to prevent A from emptying the Silver pile fast enough.

74
Simulation / Re: Non transitive challenges - 2nd Edition
« on: July 01, 2022, 09:30:35 am »
Here's a solution to Challenge 1, featuring some Copper strategies.

Kingdom is Banquet, Tower and Masterpiece.

A — a Masterpiece/Tower strategy:

Buy Masterpiece if available $ > 6 and count in supply (Silver) > 1
Buy Colony
Buy Province
Buy Duchy if count in supply (Copper) = 0
Buy Gold if count in supply (Copper) > 0
Buy Masterpiece if available $ >= 5 and count in supply (Silver) = 2
Buy Silver
Buy Estate if count in supply (Copper) = 0

B — simple Banquet/Tower strategy that simply empties the Copper pile and then buys green:

Buy Duchy if count in supply (Copper) = 0
Buy Estate if count in supply (Copper) = 0
Buy Banquet
Buy Copper

C — a Banquet/Tower strategy that has been modified to counter A by using Banquets to gain Masterpieces, and also to get rekt hard by B (it still loses to B without the intentional crippling, but only like 55-45):

Buy Duchy if count in supply (Copper) = 0 and count in deck (Copper) > count in all opponent's decks (Copper)
Buy Estate if count in supply (Copper) = 0 and count in deck (Copper) > count in all opponent's decks (Copper)
Buy Banquet if count in supply (Masterpiece) > 0
Buy Masterpiece
Buy Banquet if count in deck (Copper) > count in all opponent's decks (Copper)
Buy Copper

A beats B 98.93-0.83 and beats BMU 88.41-11.09
B beats C 100.0-0.0 and beats BMU 99.46-0.48
C beats A 96.74-2.82 and beats BMU 99.97-0.03.

(using Geronimoo's accurate simulation)

Nice find! To clarify: I assume Banquet's gain preferences are the same as the buy preferences, so B's Banquets always gains 3 Coppers and C's Banquets always gain Masterpiece unless the pile is empty? And does the "intentional crippling" refer to the "if count ..." conditions?

FWIW, I would consider intentional crippling against the spirit of the challenge. If you allowed it, you could solve the challenge 100-0 in any kingdom that contains 3 cards a, b, c such that BM+either of a, b, c beats pure BM:
Player A plays BM+a, except they stop doing anything if card c is gained by the opponent.
Player B plays BM+b, except they stop doing anything if card a is gained by the opponent.
Player C plays BM+c, except they stop doing anything if card b is gained by the opponent.

Quote
In my solution, there should theoretically exist a strategy that beats all three (and I don't think a solution exists where that is not the case), but it shouldn't be as easy to find.

Any finite game has a (probabilistic) "optimal strategy" for each player by Nash theory. Dominion has only finitely many (relevantly different) gamestates in any kingdom without tokens or infinite loops (like the kingdom you gave), so in such a game there should indeed always be a strategy that beats all three.

75
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Prosperity 2E Preview 3
« on: June 29, 2022, 05:09:43 pm »
You ignored the 4th element, the absence of draw. Chances for those 4 elements to come together are virtually nil. I probably played dozens of games with KC and Monument and none led to a stalemate.

By the way, good luck with getting rid of 20 starting cards with 12 Islands.

Good luck remembering that KC is in the kingdom, so each player can get rid of 12 cards with only 4 Islands.

As jomini said, the existence of draw doesn't negate the combo, as it's risky to increase your deck size above 5. E.g. if you add a draw card together with another KC and another Monument you'll only get 12 VP if you have the draw card and at least 2 KC in your starting hand. Otherwise, unless you've drawn exactly 2 KC and 3 Monument,  you'll only get 3 or 6 VP.

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