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951

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions

« on: April 29, 2015, 11:17:56 am »

Hermit + Coppersmith + cheap non terminal plus buy

Not as powerful as Hermit + Market Square, but still can be very powerful.  Nab Madmen, Coppersmith, and cheap non terminal plus buys (Pawn, Hamlet, Candlestick Maker, etc.).  Then do a megaturn in which you play several Coppersmiths and your non terminal plus buys.  Keep track of how many Coppersmiths you have so that you can ensure you have enough Madmen or villages or whatever to play them all, and keep track of how many buys total you will have so that you can ensure you can buy all the green cards you want.  I don't know the optimal play (when to buy a Coppersmith vs. when to gain a Madman, should you be buying coppers, etc.), but I do know it can pay off.  As with any megaturn, make sure you can end the game on it.  So maybe go for it when opponent has half the provinces and you have at least 2 Madmen in hand, or whatever.

I've executed this both successfully and very unsuccessfully.  But either way, it is fun to try, encourages careful deck tracking, and seems underrated.

952

Dominion General Discussion / Re: CARD OF THE WEEK #5: Steward

« on: April 28, 2015, 07:48:04 am »

I've seen some use the +$2 to spike an early 6 or 7, though the situations in which one would do this seem scarce...thoughts?

This is a great question, I'd love to hear thoughts on how good a 6 or 7 (or even 5) would have to be to forgo the trashing early on.

I may do this when my Steward misses my Estates on T3 or T4, and there are key $5 or $6 cards.  I.e. if it come up with Steward + 4 coppers, I'd be tempted to snag that early Goons, or Border Village + Wharf, or whatever.  Even still it depends on the board, but there are certainly situations that call for it, albeit pretty rare.

Also, don't know if this is correct or not, but I would think doing this would be more common in >2 player games, i.e. when attack cards are better and thinning is not as good.

953

Dominion League / Re: Season 7 - Results

« on: April 25, 2015, 09:37:53 am »

C1
Dingan: 3
Hyphen-ated: 3

954

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Cards that could have been Events?

« on: April 24, 2015, 12:36:35 pm »

I think Cache would be better as an Event.

It would still stink though.  I can't think of scenarios in which the event would be significantly better than the card, therefore it's still almost never worth the $5.

955

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Cards that could have been Events?

« on: April 24, 2015, 11:33:12 am »

I like the idea but there are still differences no matter how you spin the Events:
- You wouldn't be able to trash the card later, i.e. no trash-for-benefit effects
- They wouldn't run out, like how supply piles do
- They wouldn't contribute to 3-pile endings
- They wouldn't bump up your Gardens, Fairgrounds, etc.
- They wouldn't be something to discard after you've drawn your deck (Horse Traders, Vault, Secret Chamber)

So although the idea of having the Events instead is cool, they would certainly change some game mechanics.

956

Dominion League / Re: Season 7 - Results

« on: April 22, 2015, 10:28:55 pm »

C1
Dingan: 3
Robz888: 3

957

Dominion League / Re: Season 7 - Results

« on: April 21, 2015, 09:36:05 pm »

C1
Dingan: 4
mpsprs: 2

958

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions

« on: April 21, 2015, 01:14:13 pm »

As promised, here is my spiel.

So when I look at a board, one of the things I do is look for combos. Yeah there's the big stuff like NV/Bridge, Hermit/Market Square, those you just build your whole deck around. But then there are other ones like Apprentice/Fortress, FV/Wharf, Apothecary/NV, Tactician/Black Market, and lot of the stuff mentioned here -- synergies strong enough that even though they don't dictate all of your strategy, they are incorporated strongly into it.

The way to get better at knowing these explosive synergies is to just know about them. I thought a thread that lists a bunch of these good ones would be useful.

So that's what I wanted from this thread. Anything else I've said was just a (probably misguided) attempt to keep the discussion from going off to some other direction.

So like, what is the right thing to do here? I kind of hoped that the community could just have an on-topic discussion without the need for me to moderate it and someone could just scroll down the pages and read lots of really cool tidbits of knowledge. Instead, they have to weed through a bunch of sarcastic suggestions, or maybe some suggestions that turned out to not be so good after some discussion. Whether or not I like that is irrelevant, that's what's going to happen.

So in order to have the resource I wanted, what I'm supposed to do is not only try to keep discussion on track, but find the combos that were deemed "good enough" and compile them on a list in the OP. As you can see, I'm bad at that. Because I'm bad at it, I'm less motivated to do it because it frustrates me -- all for personal reasons that are totally irrelevant. If I'm going to contribute to the community, I should just do what I'm good at, which is probably making videos. And not doing this.

Maybe there are some other people who are more motivated to do that. Sure, they should go ahead and do it, I certainly won't be offended. I'll even contribute when I think it's meaningful.

FYI:

I suggest the OPer put the most useful/simple/interesting interactions into the OP, to make them easy to find later.

959

Game Reports / Re: Council Room, Militia, Stonemason and tough decisions

« on: April 21, 2015, 07:29:15 am »

My gut tells me to avoid Potion/University.  Procession can be used to do everything University does -- gain cards and give + actions.  You'd be fine Processing away WMs for actions because the game is not going to last long -- so you don't need to hold on to more than a few WMs.  I would go for some sort of Procession-WM-Council Room-Militia thing, adding in a Vault for the large majority of my economy (i.e. after playing a Council Room or 2).  Feed your Procession with 2 $4 cards each buy (not just 1, as you mention) via Stonemason, or even from Stonemasoning a $5 into 2 $4s.

960

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions

« on: April 20, 2015, 02:39:58 pm »

Over the weekend I noticed Ill-Gotten Gains seems to have a symbiotic relationship with Mercenary.

With Mercenary the deck thinning and + 2 cards means you draw your Ill-Gotten Gains more often.
Which means you are more likely to hit 5 on that turn, as when needed you gain extra coppers with IGG.
Those extra coppers are then fuel to play Mercenary again.

Plus as well as clogging your opponents deck with curses you know have a discard attack.

I wouldn't put Merc+IGG as a particularly neat combo because...
If you have a Merc, doesn't your opponent often have one as well?  In which case, they're making you discard down to 3 about just as often.  And the curses you're giving them are fuel for their Merc.  Of course, if you're the only one with a Merc, or your Merc comes up at better times based on whatever shuffle luck, then your opponents will often tremble, no matter the kingdom.

961

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions

« on: April 17, 2015, 03:32:49 pm »

Governor/Black Market/Minion

I've only pulled this one off once, but the idea is as follows:

Play a village (doesn't matter which one)
Play multiple Governors for +3 cards
Play Black Market, dumping all your Treasure on the table
Play Minion for the discard attack *opponent discards his huge hand for a random four-card hand*

Any opponent draw (Council Room, Governor, etc.) + any discard-to-x work.  Example:
http://gokosalvager.com/kingdomvisualize?logurl=http://dominionlogs.goko.com/20150319/log.51201cbee4b04e88c8da4f9a.1426811891226.txt
http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?20150319/log.51201cbee4b04e88c8da4f9a.1426811891226.txt
(Okay, ya got me, all I really wanted to do was show a game where I beat Mic Q.)

But I can see how Minion is usually even more brutal than, say, Margrave because it doesn't let them choose which cards to keep.

962

Rules Questions / Re: Trashing Hand w/ Count + Market Square

« on: April 17, 2015, 12:10:55 pm »

Say I have a hand of Count, Copper, Copper, Copper, Market Square.  I play the Count, top deck a Copper, then trash my hand.  Should the Market Square's on-trash reaction trigger?  That is, can I trash the Coppers "before" the MS, and therefore trigger it's reaction because it's still in my hand?  Goko says you cannot, and everything gets trashed at once.

Being able to react the MS would mean you are reacting it after the Count starts, but before it's finished resolving.  This seems weird, but isn't that how reactions work?  I can react my Watchtower during my opponent's Followers (I play the reaction after I gain the Curse but before I have to discard).  I can react my Tunnel during my Vault (after I discard but before my opponent chooses to discard).  Etc.  So why can't I react the MS after I've trashed some cards with Count, but before I've trashed others?

From the rulebook FAQ for Count: "If you trash multiple cards that do something when trashed at once, trash them all, then choose an order to resolve the things that happen due to them being trashed."

You trash all the cards, that includes Market Square. Now when-trashed things trigger. Market Square of course is not in your hand at that point.

The only difference is with Remake, which says "Do this twice:", so each trashing is a seperate event to which you can react, as if it were a throned Develop, say.

So with Remake you can Remake a Copper, discard MS to gain Gold, then Remake OE into E and draw either the MS or the Gold, with the E ending up in your discard.

When you Chapel or Forge a Copper + OE, the trashing of both cards and the on-trash effect of OE happen before you can react to it, so you draw 1 card from your empty deck before you can discard the MS for a Gold.

You are correct about how Remake is different, but not about Overgrown Estate.

You Chapel a Copper + Overgrown Estate. Put them both into the trash. Now it's time for when-trashed stuff. You could resolve a Market Square from hand first, or Overgrown Estate. After Overgrown Estate is trashed, you can still resolve a Market Square, including one you just drew.

Makes sense.  So the within-sentence vs. in-between-sentences thing seems to apply with the triggers, with Remake being the 1 exception.  At least how I interpret things.

963

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions

« on: April 17, 2015, 12:06:15 pm »

Can we make a "Lame and certainly useless card interactions" thread?

Poor House + Copper
Death Cart + Silver
Forge + Gardens
Smithy + Hunting Party
Crossroads + Necropolis
Scout + anything

964

Rules Questions / Re: Trashing Hand w/ Count + Market Square

« on: April 17, 2015, 10:37:42 am »

Say I have a hand of Count, Copper, Copper, Copper, Market Square.  I play the Count, top deck a Copper, then trash my hand.  Should the Market Square's on-trash reaction trigger?  That is, can I trash the Coppers "before" the MS, and therefore trigger it's reaction because it's still in my hand?  Goko says you cannot, and everything gets trashed at once.

Being able to react the MS would mean you are reacting it after the Count starts, but before it's finished resolving.  This seems weird, but isn't that how reactions work?  I can react my Watchtower during my opponent's Followers (I play the reaction after I gain the Curse but before I have to discard).  I can react my Tunnel during my Vault (after I discard but before my opponent chooses to discard).  Etc.  So why can't I react the MS after I've trashed some cards with Count, but before I've trashed others?

You don't trash the cards one at a time, you trash all of the cards simultaneously. There is no "after I've trashed some cards with Count, but before I've trashed others". Goko has it right. If you trash an Overgrown Estate with Count and the card you draw with it is a Market Square, you can discard it to gain a Gold.

So the general rule with reactions is that you may react them in between sentences of other cards, but not mid-sentence?  Or what?  I know this sounds weird, but it seems to be the case.  And I can't think of any counterexamples to that.

965

Rules Questions / Trashing Hand w/ Count + Market Square

« on: April 17, 2015, 08:36:44 am »

Say I have a hand of Count, Copper, Copper, Copper, Market Square.  I play the Count, top deck a Copper, then trash my hand.  Should the Market Square's on-trash reaction trigger?  That is, can I trash the Coppers "before" the MS, and therefore trigger it's reaction because it's still in my hand?  Goko says you cannot, and everything gets trashed at once.

Being able to react the MS would mean you are reacting it after the Count starts, but before it's finished resolving.  This seems weird, but isn't that how reactions work?  I can react my Watchtower during my opponent's Followers (I play the reaction after I gain the Curse but before I have to discard).  I can react my Tunnel during my Vault (after I discard but before my opponent chooses to discard).  Etc.  So why can't I react the MS after I've trashed some cards with Count, but before I've trashed others?

966

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Kingdom Selection methods in real life?

« on: April 10, 2015, 11:11:26 am »

I have a wall on which I have pasted all the Dominion randomizer cards in a grid.  I then throw darts at the well to select the cards for a Kingdom.

But isn't that not truly random because the dart will tend to hit the board in a 2-d bell curve around where you aim (usually the center)?  You could aim at 'random' places, but that's not really random.

967

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Kingdom Selection methods in real life?

« on: April 10, 2015, 08:25:12 am »

It depends who I'm playing with.  If I'm playing with experts (well, I only know 1 other person in real life who know's their stuff), I'll just make it random, maybe swapping out some lame cards (Secret Chamber) here and there.

If it's with novices, I like to

• only include up to 1 attack card, with no brutal ones (Torturer, Cultist, etc.)
• only include up to 1 duration card because it can be hard for people to keep track of what they've played the previous turn vs. this turn if they've played >5 of them
• completely eliminate cards that require you to remember to do something at a time other than when you played them (Treasury, Scheme, etc.)

I've also experienced times having an engine deck and playing a bunch of cards per turn where you choose from different options (Steward, Pawn, etc.).  It can be annoying to have to remember all your choices from the turn if you've played a lot of them.  I won't eliminate these cards from the kingdom, but I will simply not buy too many of them even if it would be the best play to do so.

968

Help! / Re: How to approach this kingdom

« on: April 09, 2015, 01:58:09 pm »

Vault tunnel?

Eh, maybe but I doubt it.  There's pretty good support for double-tac here, the opponent can start picking up Bazaars and more Swindlers and kinda ruin your day.  The only thing that makes me hesitant about double-tac is the weak trashing (do you even bother with Develop?) and not-so-great draw.

I think the debate so far has been double-tac vs. Fools Gold rush.  Double-tac is tempting because of the good support (Bazaar), economy (Vault), and attackiness (Swindler/BoM).  But I wonder if you went for that while your opponent is rushing the FGs, they might be able to pile-drive the provinces.  Because uncontested Fool's Gold is like, the bee's knees.  By the time you are up to double-tac and are hitting them with multiple Swindlers per turn, they might already have the Province split.  Plus Swindling a Province would make the game end that much quicker.

But I don't really know.  It would be cool to see 2 people play 5 games of this, where they each take one of the sides.

EDIT: and I think Vault/Tunnel is too slow, and therefore vulnerable to double-tac + Swindlers.

969

Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Easy Puzzles

« on: April 09, 2015, 10:40:31 am »

Time for some Lagrange multipliers!
Optimization function: VP(x,y)=x*y+3*x
Constraint: z(x,y)=x+y=constant
dz/dy=dz/dx=1
dVP/dy=x,dVP/dx=3+y
These vectors must be in the same direction, with a Lagrange multiplier -L applied:
(dz/dx,dz/dy)=L(dVP/dx,dVP/dy)=(L dVP/dx,L dVP/dy)
L dVP/dx=dz/dx, L dVP/dy=dz/dy
1=Lx, L=1/x
1=(3+y)/x, x=3+y

This is my favorite answer, which I actually like to put in non-calculus terms:

VP(x,y) = xy + 3x = (x)(y+3)
Let (x) and (y+3) be the sides of a rectangle, so that VP is the area of the rectangle.  You want to maximize the area of the rectangle with a constant perimeter (perimeter is constant because perimeter = 2(x) + 2(y+3) = 2z+6 = constant).  Everyone knows that with a given perimeter, the largest rectangle you can make is a square.  So x = y + 3.

970

Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Easy Puzzles

« on: April 09, 2015, 09:55:12 am »

I have z Duchies and Dukes.  That is, I have x Duchies and y Dukes, where x + y = z.  For a constant z, what should x and y be to maximize my VP?  I.e. what is y in terms of x (or x in terms of y)?  Explain why (I like math).

971

Game Reports / Re: About to resign, then this happens.

« on: April 09, 2015, 08:18:03 am »

Wow this looks like a glorious King's-Court-Engine-Wharf-Quarry-trash-stuff-with-Bishop-gain-it-back-with-Graverobber game, unless your opponent pile-drives the Provinces with a megaturn or two or something.  Would love to try it out some time.

972

Dominion League / Re: Season 7 - Results

« on: April 07, 2015, 09:30:24 pm »

C1: ThaddeusB 3, Dingan 3

973

Game Reports / Re: Candlestick Maker a good opener?

« on: April 07, 2015, 10:05:45 am »

Yes, it can be fine for the reasons mentioned.  Only thing I'll add though is that you could use Expand to grab one later, instead of overpaying for it early.  Although if that time comes, you're probably better off expanding Estates into Stables or something, but you'd have the option.  Also if this were a Shelters game (which it wasn't), you could also Graverobber the Necro into one.

You probably already know this, but always look for the "pseudo +buy" cards, like Remodel/Expand, Outpost, Smugglers, etc. -- those can be used for your +buy instead of the actual (weak) +buy.

CSM is not a weak +buy.

I did not say it is a weak +buy.  (It may or may not be a weak card, depending on the kingdom/strategy you're going for, but that's beside my point.)  What I'm saying is that non-terminal +buys are often good support for engines, but consider other options for gaining cards when they exist.  Specifically, when there is no +buy, not even terminal, then "pseudo +buy" cards (as I call them) can make or break your engine.

For example, here is a game w/ Scrying Pool, no thinning, and no +buy.  Doesn't seem like a Scyring Pool game at first, right?  But there's Outpost and Smugglers to help gain you more cantrips, which (I think) won the game for my opponent (although it was basically a mirror).

Code: [Select]

Pearl Diver, Scrying Pool, Smugglers, Militia, Noble Brigand, Bandit Camp, Cartographer, Journeyman, Outpost, Venture
http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?20150402/log.516d4577e4b082c74d7b716e.1428015413484.txt

974

Game Reports / Re: Candlestick Maker a good opener?

« on: April 07, 2015, 08:54:24 am »

Yes, it can be fine for the reasons mentioned.  Only thing I'll add though is that you could use Expand to grab one later, instead of overpaying for it early.  Although if that time comes, you're probably better off expanding Estates into Stables or something, but you'd have the option.  Also if this were a Shelters game (which it wasn't), you could also Graverobber the Necro into one.

You probably already know this, but always look for the "pseudo +buy" cards, like Remodel/Expand, Outpost, Smugglers, etc. -- those can be used for your +buy instead of the actual (weak) +buy.

975

Dominion General Discussion / Re: CARD OF THE WEEK #2: Talisman

« on: April 01, 2015, 03:06:42 pm »

Yeah, not much to discuss here.  Like all other cards, it's usefullness depends on what else is in the kingdom.  It tends to synergize in boards where you want a lot of low-cost cards (Ironmonger, Wishing Well, Peddler, Feodum/Silver, etc.), there is no rush for $5 cards (I can't imagine opening Talisman over Silver when, say, Cultist is in the kingdom), and there is some source of multi-buy.  It can give you pile control.  It can be a Copper to you.  It can make you gain 2 of something when you only want 1.  It can make hitting $5 before your second reshuffle less probable.  It can be something to trash with Forager.  It can be something to discard when Militia'd.  Blah, blah, blah.

It can be great, neutral, or bad.  Depends on the board.  It's probably bad more often than it's great, which is why people say it's a weak card.  But it can be great.