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Messages - silverspawn

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2876
Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: The Necro Wars
« on: April 12, 2022, 03:49:01 pm »
this tracks the music critique I read, but I'm not sure how it generalizes to other art with different culture. Also, isn't like modern classic (which has a different culture) this thing that's hyper complicated and sounds like shit?

2877
Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: The Necro Wars
« on: April 12, 2022, 11:12:02 am »
I don't know if that's true, though. Good art is about that, but I do genuinely think that there are lots of people who critique things by how impressive they are, and consume then even if they don't even enjoy it all that much

2878
Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: Codenames XIII
« on: April 12, 2022, 11:10:08 am »
Hm then again, if you do mean the person, extraordinary is a really good fit, better than field. Maybe I don't agree with myself.

2879
Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: Codenames XIII
« on: April 12, 2022, 11:09:17 am »
I don't know Jimmm's background but he's good at math, so the definition of model-as-not-a-beautiful-person should be something he's aware off, and I don't think you associate "extraordinary" with that. Would rather take your guys' word on Field.

2880
Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: The Necro Wars
« on: April 12, 2022, 08:33:45 am »
plot twist: it's all of the above.

I think signaling is definitely a component of art, being different is also a component, and inherent beauty is also a component

2881
Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: The Necro Wars
« on: April 12, 2022, 03:54:41 am »
maybe one reason I like this is because it's so typical for the author. He just wants to make up weird conceptual stuff like that. His comics are chocked full of that.

2882
Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: The Necro Wars
« on: April 12, 2022, 03:49:36 am »
Aside from the last (sort of), Oyvind never passes judgment on these, that is left as an exercise to the reader, but my take is

1) lol / confusing correlation with causation / babies would never learn this
2) misunderstands how art works, being hard to do is a feature... alas
3) this is by far the least stupid on the list, but probably not practical anymore
4) sufficiently obvious failure mode that I don't even need to say it

2883
Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: The Necro Wars
« on: April 12, 2022, 03:45:59 am »
In Trixie Slaughteraxe for President, there is this funny part where they visit the castle of language makers, that is a bunch of ladies trying to develop languages that (if widely adopted) would be good for society. We have

- One language with math problems built into  basic syntax ("babies can learn all languages, therefore they will do this easily, then everyone will learn to solve math problems from a young age")
- One language where everything rhymes ("so easy to write poetry!")
- One language without words for bad things ("we'll forget about evil!")
- One language where every substantive and adjective has a good and a bad form, forcing you to constantly judge what is good or bad when speaking ("people will think deeply about what's good or bad, and figure it out")

2884
Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: The Necro Wars
« on: April 11, 2022, 06:28:16 pm »
pretty baffled here because why on earth would you define Closure like that? Why not train a triangle classifier and then see whether it classifies the illusion as a triangle? Or better yet, train a network to do nothing but reconstruct the original image, feed it an illusion, and see if the reconstruction has the illusory lines. But this??? why????? and why would you think this measures Closure???

(mb it'll make more sense if I read the paper completely, should do that.)

2885
Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: The Necro Wars
« on: April 11, 2022, 06:25:56 pm »
I've found a paper that claims to have demonstrated that neural networks fall prey to the Gestalt Law of Closure, that is, they see non-existent lines that complete figures, e.g. a triangle.

If this is true, it would be strong evidence against my new world view. If not a total knockdown.

... but the way they measure "Closure" is, they look at (a) similarity between a network given the full image and a network given the incomplete ("illusion") image, and (b) similarity between a network that is given the full image and a network given the incomplete image with parts rotated in such a way that the lines don't look like the figure anymore. I.e., one pair of networks reading the top two images vs. one pair reading the bottom two.



Then they define Closure as the difference in similarity.

this... is just stupid, right? like there's no reason to think this measures Closure? It only shows that the top two are more similar, which is already obvious?

2886
Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: The Necro Wars
« on: April 11, 2022, 05:00:22 pm »
I didn't even get around to bragging about this, but I've now been mentioned by name twice in a slatestarcodex article. Pretty sure there was some kind of "achievement unlocked" icon that was supposed to appear in mid air. Must have missed it.

2887
Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: Codenames XIII
« on: April 11, 2022, 10:43:32 am »
Hm.

Himalayas are also "outstanding" by being the tallest mountain in the world

2888
Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: Codenames XIII
« on: April 11, 2022, 10:25:33 am »
you can also be middling in your field, or terrible, or above average...

On first glance, I'd say King and Ace

2889
Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: The Necro Wars
« on: April 10, 2022, 09:04:49 am »
So one of the students in my class has chronic sleep problems (which was immediately obvious to me after a colleague told me, but which I managed not to realize before). She basically seems extremely tired all the time, which is a state I remember because I've sometimes been very tired during class, and it's pretty unpleasant. Should I do anythng about this?

2890
Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: The Necro Wars
« on: April 10, 2022, 08:16:35 am »
This is a hilarious poll

2891
Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: The Necro Wars
« on: April 09, 2022, 06:39:39 am »
This is probably not relevant, but hypothetically speaking, there is this thing where a person can open an account on a centralized exchange, buy ETH for $ with negligible fee, and send it to an arbitrary wallet for about 15$ fee (regardless of the amount)

2892
Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: The Necro Wars
« on: April 09, 2022, 04:10:42 am »
Also believe it or not but the banner finally shows you profile pic big large enough to where the white symbol no longer looks like a bird.

2893
Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: The Necro Wars
« on: April 09, 2022, 04:09:37 am »
https://twitter.com/Awaclus (pretty obvious url isn't it)

I saw you responding to an Aella poll :-)

The fact that you don't also need a normie account where you give milktoast political takes on everything is pretty nice imo

2894
Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: The Necro Wars
« on: April 08, 2022, 05:03:22 pm »
I remember someone on LW describing the brain as "a bunch of ML networks talking to each other with a small layer of supervisory control". That small layer could be 90% of the problem.

2895
Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: The Necro Wars
« on: April 08, 2022, 04:52:29 pm »
By the way, I've found Awaclus' twitter profile! (Not sure if linking it is okay.) Though I'd guess you have another personal one.

2896
Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: The Necro Wars
« on: April 08, 2022, 04:49:44 pm »
Another thing is that, if something happens consciously, this is straight-forward proof that consciousness is involved, but if it doesn't, this doesn't prove anything. It's possible that consciousness is involved, it's just a disconnected part. The idea that "several entities" could be living in the brain is another thing that used to be freaky to me and now I'm just like "sure could totally be the case". In fact I'd say it's likely.

But still, sentence generation in particular seems like a good candidate for something that the brain does in pretty much the same way as GPT-3.

2897
Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: The Necro Wars
« on: April 08, 2022, 04:45:40 pm »
Reminder to myself that at some point I need to write this kind of evidence up into a post in my sequence. I'm not there yet, but it's an import piece

2898
Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: The Necro Wars
« on: April 08, 2022, 04:45:02 pm »
The question is, will progress hit a wall anytime soon. And the relevant question for that is probably, is there a thing about going from whatever-the-current-best-language-model is to human level reasoning that requires consciousness? If yes, that's a strong reason to believe these people are wrong, since they all don't know that consciousness matters.

In general, if something happens consciously, this is obviously done via consciousness. So vision is always the obvious example; don't expect AI to catch up to humans anytime soon. But reasoning is tricky because much of reasoning happens *unconsciously*.

However, the step where we take the good ideas and build on that does happen consciously.  If I think about a hard problem, I wait for my brain to generate ideas, but most of them are terrible. So plausibly there *is* such a step which takes consciousness.

This all fits very well with what GPT-3 and other models are doing. They generate the kind of sentences that our brain spits out unconsciously, but totally lack the supervisory step. And that supervisory step could plausibly be really hard to replicate.

This monologue was surprisingly effective at calming myself down.

2899
Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: The Necro Wars
« on: April 08, 2022, 03:16:25 pm »
e.g., https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/wrkEnGrTTrM2mnmGa/it-s-time-for-ea-leadership-to-pull-the-fast-timelines-fire

2900
Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: The Necro Wars
« on: April 08, 2022, 03:15:58 pm »
everyone in my online-social bubble is freaking out about AI progress right now. Maybe they're right and AGI is < 5 years away, in which case we're almost definitely going to die

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