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76

Dominion General Discussion / The value of a terminal Gold

« on: October 05, 2012, 04:30:10 am »

That is to say, how good is this card:
Terminal Gold
Action - $?
+$3

This came about after a little discussion in the variants forum about the strength of terminal Gold. I personally had always considered it to be a weak $5, and therefore terminal Gold with minor benefit to be possible at $5. But there was some disagreement, with others thinking it would be a strong $5 just as is, which got me thinking about the possibilities.

I think we can all agree it would be too strong at $4, too weak at $6 and so we can consider it in comparison to current $5's which: are terminal, can generate at least $3 and doing so is at least fairly common (this excludes cards like Tribute, Vault which aren't really sensible to call terminal Golds). I would consider Counting House, Explorer, Mandarin, Harvest, Merchant Ship to qualify therefore. Now the thing to note with all of these is that all of them have both strengths and weaknesses compared to a flat terminal Gold, and also, all of them except Merchant Ship are rated in the bottom 10 in Qvists community card rating list.

Looking mostly at Harvest and Merchant Ship: Harvest is almost always worth at least $2, usually worth $3 and sometimes worth $4, so it's a little random (not necessarily a bad thing, in fact often a good thing). It also cycles your deck, which is a good thing usually except making it miss reshuffles, and Harvest is also weak early (it's also very bad to play after matching your Treasure Maps, although I can think of worse cards to play). I think terminal Gold is probably preferable to this, because stronger earlygame and probably not much weaker later. Merchant Ship is actually not that different, Duration type makes it more likely to miss reshuffles, and it always gives +$4 but over two turns, which cripples it compared to flat +$4. However I think Merchant Ship is probably stronger than a flat Terminal Gold, thanks to actually giving more money (and in particular, getting a phantom +$2 the next turn).

I guess what I'm thinking is, flat Terminal Gold would fit comfortably somewhere around 25-38th in the list of $5's, which roughly means, somewhere in the 3rd quarter. And I think that means that there's space to see a terminal $5 with a small benefit, and that not being too strong for $5. But that makes me wonder, what kind of benefit might we see, if such a card were to exist? +buy is one of the weakest benefits on terminal silvers but would probably make a terminal Gold worth $6, especially because of the synergy. I guess what's likely is something that's generally a benefit but could be a detriment, or maybe some kind of reaction or something. I won't speculate too much as this isn't a variants thread.

77

General Discussion / Making a knockout tournament for a 3+ player game

« on: September 22, 2012, 08:43:18 pm »

(Warning: This topic will try to be vaguely mathematical but will also hand wave all proofs as being obvious by observation)

I've been thinking a little about this, as a concept. The idea is, normally when you run a knockout tournament you have two teams (which may be a single person e.g. Dominion), and after some process a winner is declared and proceeds to the next stage, where they play another team else until only one team remains. Extending that to three players is pretty trivial, change the word two to three and team to teams and you have a system. In fact you can do that for N teams, it's fine.

But what if you want some kind of fairness? For example, you have seeded teams and you want a fair seeding system (or as fair as possible, in the case that fairness is impossible). Or maybe for various reasons it's desirable to have two teams go through, not just one, or maybe even a double elimination system so one loss doesn't knock you out. This starts to get pretty complex in my mind. I did some browsing online and in my skimming, there's some interesting theory on seeding and running a tournament fairly with two players (or not, as it's impossible if you want certain desirable conditions), but nothing on three team knockouts.

Why am I thinking about this? Mostly, because I think it might be useful for Dominion tournaments, maybe. But also I think it's interesting for it's own sake.

So firstly I'll start with a simple ish case. You have N players, seeded, under the assumption that player x is more likely to beat y than z if y>z (for all x,y,z in [1,N]). You have a three player knockout system. Oh, so let's add the assumption that adding player c to a game between a and b doesn't affect the chance of a beating b. I think one desirable property is that a player x should have a greater or equal chance of winning with his current seed than he would with any greater numbered seed (in other words, sabotaging his own ability to decrease his seed could only decrease his chance of winning).

So what's the optimal seating? Well, I don't think there is one, but here's a system that looks okay:
With three: 1 2 3
With 9 (letters for ease of the 27 round):
1 6 9
2 5 8
3 4 7

With 27:
1 18 27
6 13 22
9 10 19

2 17 26
5 14 23
8 11 20

3 16 25
4 15 24
7 12 21

From there you work backwards (treat byes as having the lowest seeds during the first round). This system possibly achieves the criteria I listed above but also, I think, achieves another useful one, which is that it delays high seed meetings as long as possible, so while your chance of winning may not be maximised, your chance of going far is.

With four players, I can think of two possible options, and I don't know which is better. Here's what it looks like in the semi final:

1 8 9 16
2 7 10 15
3 6 11 14
4 5 12 13

OR

1 8 12 16
2 7 11 15
3 6 10 14
4 5 9 13

I think which of these would be better depends on the relative skills of the players. For example, if we assume that the top few teams get massively better than each other as seed improves (e.g. seed 1 has an 80% chance of beating seed 2, 90%+ seed 3 or below, while seed 2 has an 80% chance of beating seed 3 or below, and most other matchups will probably only be up to a 75% rate - not an unreasonable assumption in some sports, for example), I think the bottom option is better, it gives seeds 9 to 12 real incentive to raise their rating. On the other hand, if say probability of winning is pretty much inversely linear with seed, then the top option is fairer (mainly because of the teams in 8th-9th and 12th-13th on the bottom option, where the 8th best team would rather have the 9th bests seed and ditto for 12th).

So, uh, I think that's about as far as I got thinking about this. Mostly this was an as-I-went trail of thoughts, but I hope there's some interesting thoughts in here and if people have suggestions on running such a tournament, I'd like to hear it.

(I think the subjective 'best' option in terms of fairness and speed might be to seed the best K players where K is the number of games in the first round, place byes sensible (e.g. with the highest seeds) and then randomise all other players. I won't offer a defence of this view because I'm probably likely to change if presented with what seems like a better system)

78

Non-Mafia Game Threads / Resistance II: The Empire Strikes Back

« on: July 11, 2012, 11:46:40 am »

This is the thread for Resistance II

Rules of Resistance

Resistance is a mafia-like game of social deduction. There are two teams - one consisting of a number of Empire Spies (between 2-4 depending on number of players), each of whom knows all the other spies - and one team of Resistance members, who know nothing but the fact that they themselves are Resistance. The Resistance are trying to overthrow the empire by conducting three successful missions - each requiring the full co-operation of everyone on the team. The spies, on the other hand, want to sabotage said missions - if they can sabotage three missions, then the Resistance crumbles and they win.

At the start of the game, the leader is randomly chosen, as well as the succession of the leader. The leader's job is to choose a team of between 2-5 operatives (depending on number of players and mission number), to attempt the next mission. After the leader proposes his team, everyone (including himself) gets to vote yes or no to that proposal. If a majority say yes, the mission goes ahead with that team. Otherwise, leadership passes to the next person in the succession (this goes in a circle - the last person passes leadership to the first person). Voting is done simultaneously - to simulate that here, all votes will be sent via PM to the mod (that's me!).

Be warned: if 5 proposals fail in a row, for any reasons (plot cards can affect this, if they are being used), then the Resistance fails due to it's lack of leadership and the spies instantly win!

If the proposal passes, then each person on the mission can choose to sabotage or support the mission. Spies have free choice in this, and while they need to sabotage to win they might support as a strategic move. Resistance members MUST support the mission. After everyone has chosen, the results are revealed. In real life, this would be done with cards which are then shuffled and revealed. Here, I only need the spies decisions, all done via PM.

If a mission has even a single sabotage*, it fails and the spies get a point. If a mission has nothing but successes, however, it passes, and the Resistance gets a point. Regardless of if a mission passes or fails, leadership moves on to the next person. Whichever team reaches three points first wins.

*The 4th mission requires TWO sabotages to fail. The mission will succeed if only one spy sabotages.

We are using the Plot Thickens plot cards variant in this game

Plot cards are a deck of 15 cards which are drawn by the leader at the start of each ROUND (that is, the very first leader of the game, and then every leader after a mission only). 2 cards are drawn each round and must be immediately distributed.

here is a picture of the plot cards. These are the following numbers of cards:

No Confidence x3
Keeping a Close Eye on You x2
Opinion Maker x2
Overheard conversation x2
Strong Leader x2
Establish Confidence
In the Spotlight
Open Up
Take Responsibility

Deadlines

For the first leader in each round, the leader will have a 5 day deadline for giving out the plot card, and a 6 day deadline running concurrently to propose a team (the plot card must be distributed first). Missing the plot card deadline will result in a random person chosen, missing the team proposal deadline will result in a random team being chosen.

For the second and onward leader in each round, the leader will have a 5 day deadline for proposing a team.

Voting will have a 2 day deadline from the team being proposed. Failure to vote will result in a no vote being cast. Voting will end early once all votes are in and I have seen them all.

Missions will have a 1 day deadline. Only spies need to submit a decision for the mission. They may submit their choice in advance with their vote for the mission. Missions will never end early unless the game will end as a result of the mission - this is to protect the spies right to think in cases they need to make a non-trivial decision (e.g. both are on a mission). In the rare case of a spy missing the submission for a mission they will default to sabotage.

I will not wait for plot cards people have in cases they can be played, with the exception of Opinion Maker (see below). If you have a plot card, please leave CO (conditional orders) for when you want to use them. If you are very likely to want to use a plot card but need to see certain results to decide on whom (this mostly applies to Keeping a Close Eye on You) I will allow you to CO for me to wait for you on that.

If/when opinion maker is in the game, I will give a minimum of 1 day for voting after the opinion maker's vote has been cast. You may still wish to CO (conditional order) your vote depending on how the opinion maker does vote.

The role PMs in this game look like this:

You are a resistance operative



You win if the resistance succeed on 3 missions. You lose if the spies sabotage 3 missions

You are a spy



The (two/three/four) spies are:
W
X
(Y)
(Z)

You win if the spies successfully sabotage 3 missions. You lose if the resistance complete 3 missions

Finally rules. Shamelessly stolen and adapted from Axxle, who stole them from Mafiascum.

General Gameplay and Etiquette:
1. You may not quote private Moderator-supplied information (either real or fabricated) of any kind. Paraphrasing is acceptable.
2. There is to be NO personal communication outside of the forum postings. This includes Spies!
3. As a general rule you should aim for one post every 48 hours, minimum, to keep the game moving.
4: You may talk at ALL stages of the game. This means during proposals, voting, and missions. There is never a period where communication is banned.

Miscellaneous/Mechanics:
1. Bold, blue text is reserved for the Mod.
2. No invisible/small text is allowed, nor is cryptography, or obscuring text in any way.
3. If you have an issue/problem with the game, please PM the Mod privately. Do not post issues/complaints in the game thread.
4. The Mod may make mistakes - please point out any mistakes gently. Mistakes will be corrected where possible, but sometimes mistakes are made that cannot be reversed. These will stand as final to be commiserated over after the game.
5. Please bold and double hashtag ## all requests to the Mod so that they don’t get missed. This includes all final actions (giving out plot cards, proposing a team, public vote if you have Opinion Maker).
6. Prods of missing players will be issued automatically after 72 hours of no activity or upon request after 48 hours of no activity. A prodded player has 48 hours to respond or risks replacement. A player who has been prodded 3 times is subject to replacement without further notice.
7. Rule violations will be dealt with according to their severity.
8. If you anticipate being unavailable for more than a 48-hour period please post a notice to that effect in the thread. Treat this game as a commitment. Be considerate – don’t leave us hanging.

79

Non-Mafia Game Threads / Resistance II: The Empire Strikes Back (OLD, use new thread)

« on: July 06, 2012, 12:50:42 pm »

What do you mean, that's the subtitle of the 5th film? There were only three!

This is signups for a second game of Resistance. This is a mafia-esque game of deduction and traitors between a team of resistance members and hidden spies.

Rules of Resistance

Resistance is a mafia-like game of social deduction. There are two teams - one consisting of a number of Empire Spies (between 2-4 depending on number of players), each of whom knows all the other spies - and one team of Resistance members, who know nothing but the fact that they themselves are Resistance. The Resistance are trying to overthrow the empire by conducting three successful missions - each requiring the full co-operation of everyone on the team. The spies, on the other hand, want to sabotage said missions - if they can sabotage three missions, then the Resistance crumbles and they win.

At the start of the game, the leader is randomly chosen, as well as the succession of the leader. The leader's job is to choose a team of between 2-5 operatives (depending on number of players and mission number), to attempt the next mission. After the leader proposes his team, everyone (including himself) gets to vote yes or no to that proposal. If a majority say yes, the mission goes ahead with that team. Otherwise, leadership passes to the next person in the succession (this goes in a circle - the last person passes leadership to the first person). Voting is done simultaneously - to simulate that here, all votes will be sent via PM to the mod (that's me!).

Be warned: if 5 proposals fail in a row, for any reasons (plot cards can affect this, if they are being used), then the Resistance fails due to it's lack of leadership and the spies instantly win!

If the proposal passes, then each person on the mission can choose to sabotage or support the mission. Spies have free choice in this, and while they need to sabotage to win they might support as a strategic move. Resistance members MUST support the mission. After everyone has chosen, the results are revealed. In real life, this would be done with cards which are then shuffled and revealed. Here, I only need the spies decisions, all done via PM.

If a mission has even a single sabotage*, it fails and the spies get a point. If a mission has nothing but successes, however, it passes, and the Resistance gets a point. Regardless of if a mission passes or fails, leadership moves on to the next person. Whichever team reaches three points first wins.

*In a 7+ player game, the 4th mission requires TWO sabotages to fail. The mission will succeed if only one spy sabotages.

There are two variants that may be used.

1) Plot cards are a deck of either 7 or 15 cards which are drawn by the leader at the start of each ROUND (that is, the very first leader of the game, and then every leader after a mission only). Depending on the number of players, either 1, 2 or 3 cards are drawn each round and must be immediately distributed. In a 5-6 player game, a specific 7 card deck is used with 1 card drawn per round. In a 7-8 player game, all 15 cards are used and 2 are drawn each round. In a 9-10 player game, all 15 cards are used, and 3 are drawn each round.

here is a picture of the plot cards. This spreadsheet lists the card distributions (this is also the spreadsheet I use to run the game - not this exact one, a copy, of course!)

2) Mission Targeting: When the leader proposes a team, they also propose which mission to go on. Missions can only be attempted once, and with one exception may be attempted in any order. If a vote fails, the next leader may choose a different mission, or the same one. The one exception is: Mission 5 (the hardest (sometimes joint hardest) mission) cannot be attempted until the Resistance have passed two missions. This variant provides a small amount of help to the Resistance, who can choose to target missions they think will be most useful to them.

I'll keep signups open until it looks like nobody else is signing up. This means it could be for any number between 5-10 players. When you sign up, please say YES, NO, or INDIFFERENT to each of Plot Cards (used last game) and Mission targeting (not used last game)

Deadlines (n.b. these currently assume Plot cards and no Mission targeting. MT doesn't really affect things, but without Plot Cards, just ignore anything plot card related and you're good):

For the first leader in each round, the leader will have a 5 day deadline for giving out the plot card, and a 6 day deadline running concurrently to propose a team (the plot card must be distributed first). Missing the plot card deadline will result in a random person chosen, missing the team proposal deadline will result in a random team being chosen.

For the second and onward leader in each round, the leader will have a 5 day deadline for proposing a team.

Voting will have a 2 day deadline from the team being proposed. Failure to vote will result in a no vote being cast. Voting will end early once all votes are in and I have seen them all.

Missions will have a 1 day deadline. Only spies need to submit a decision for the mission. They may submit their choice in advance with their vote for the mission. Missions will never end early unless the game will end as a result of the mission - this is to protect the spies right to think in cases they need to make a non-trivial decision (e.g. both are on a mission). In the rare case of a spy missing the submission for a mission they will default to sabotage.

I will not wait for plot cards people have in cases they can be played, with the exception of Opinion Maker (see below). If you have a plot card, please leave CO (conditional orders) for when you want to use them. If you are very likely to want to use a plot card but need to see certain results to decide on whom (this mostly applies to Keeping a Close Eye on You) I will allow you to CO for me to wait for you on that.

If/when opinion maker is in the game, I will give a minimum of 1 day for voting after the opinion maker's vote has been cast. You may still wish to CO (conditional order) your vote depending on how the opinion maker does vote.

The role PMs in this game look like this:

You are a resistance operative



You win if the resistance succeed on 3 missions. You lose if the spies sabotage 3 missions

You are a spy



The (two/three/four) spies are:
W
X
(Y)
(Z)

You win if the spies successfully sabotage 3 missions. You lose if the resistance complete 3 missions

Finally rules. Shamelessly stolen and adapted from Axxle, who stole them from Mafiascum.

General Gameplay and Etiquette:
1. You may not quote private Moderator-supplied information (either real or fabricated) of any kind. Paraphrasing is acceptable.
2. There is to be NO personal communication outside of the forum postings. This includes Spies!
3. As a general rule you should aim for one post every 48 hours, minimum, to keep the game moving.
4: You may talk at ALL stages of the game. This means during proposals, voting, and missions. There is never a period where communication is banned.

Miscellaneous/Mechanics:
1. Bold, blue text is reserved for the Mod.
2. No invisible/small text is allowed, nor is cryptography, or obscuring text in any way.
3. If you have an issue/problem with the game, please PM the Mod privately. Do not post issues/complaints in the game thread.
4. The Mod may make mistakes - please point out any mistakes gently. Mistakes will be corrected where possible, but sometimes mistakes are made that cannot be reversed. These will stand as final to be commiserated over after the game.
5. Please bold and double hashtag ## all requests to the Mod so that they don’t get missed. This includes all final actions (giving out plot cards, proposing a team, public vote if you have Opinion Maker).
6. Prods of missing players will be issued automatically after 72 hours of no activity or upon request after 48 hours of no activity. A prodded player has 48 hours to respond or risks replacement. A player who has been prodded 3 times is subject to replacement without further notice.
7. Rule violations will be dealt with according to their severity.
8. If you anticipate being unavailable for more than a 48-hour period please post a notice to that effect in the thread. Treat this game as a commitment. Be considerate – don’t leave us hanging.

Signups:

1: Galzria
2: Robz888
3: ftl (Plot: Yes, Targeting: No)
4: Cayvie (Plot: Yes, Targeting: Indifferent)
5: Qvist (Plot: Yes, Targeting: Indifferent)
6: Grujah (Plot: Yes, Targeting: Indifferent)
7: Axxle

80

Puzzles and Challenges / Most VPs in 4 turns (again)

« on: June 29, 2012, 11:36:15 pm »

So, I asked this puzzle once before, but that was a year ago, there's two more sets since then, and we might be able to think of more clever solutions now. It's a tricky puzzle, but it's very easy to understand: In a solitaire game, score as many points as possible in four turns. Possession/Outpost turns count. We got marks in the quiz for each point above 11 we scored, and an extra mark for getting 13+ without Bank. Naturally, that hints at one possible solution.

The quiz setter got a score of 15. I think more is possible, but I haven't managed it.

For now I'll leave this as an open challenge: See if you can score 15 points in 4 turns, or even more. See how many ways you can do it, too!

81

Non-Mafia Game Threads / Resistance: The Empire Must Fall

« on: May 25, 2012, 09:21:29 am »

I will assume you're familiar with the rules from the signups thread. For plot cards, only the first leader gets one. The deck consists of:

2x Strong Leader
2x Keeping a Close Eye on You
1x No Confidence
1x Opinion Maker
1x Take Responsibility

Whose effects can be found here.

Deadlines:

For the first leader in each round, the leader will have a 5 day deadline for giving out the plot card, and a 6 day deadline running concurrently to propose a team (the plot card must be distributed first). Missing the plot card deadline will result in a random person chosen, missing the team proposal deadline will result in a random team being chosen.

For the second and onward leader in each round, the leader will have a 5 day deadline for proposing a team.

Voting will have a 2 day deadline from the team being proposed. Failure to vote will result in a no vote being cast. Voting will end early once all votes are in and I have seen them all.

Missions will have a 1 day deadline. Only spies need to submit a decision for the mission. They may submit their choice in advance with their vote for the mission. Missions will never end early unless the game will end as a result of the mission - this is to protect the spies right to think in cases they need to make a non-trivial decision (e.g. both are on a mission). In the rare case of a spy missing the submission for a mission they will default to sabotage.

I will not wait for plot cards people have in cases they can be played, with the exception of Opinion Maker (see below). If you have a plot card, please leave CO (conditional orders) for when you want to use them. If you are very likely to want to use a plot card but need to see certain results to decide on whom (this mostly applies to Keeping a Close Eye on You) I will allow you to CO for me to wait for you on that.

If/when opinion maker is in the game, I will give a minimum of 1 day for voting after the opinion maker's vote has been cast. You may still wish to CO (conditional order) your vote depending on how the opinion maker does vote.

The role PMs in this game look like this:

You are a resistance operative



You win if the resistance succeed on 3 missions. You lose if the spies sabotage 3 missions

You are a spy



The two spies are:
X
Z

You win if the spies successfully sabotage 3 missions. You lose if the resistance complete 3 missions

Finally rules. Shamelessly stolen and adapted from Axxle, who stole them from Mafiascum.

General Gameplay and Etiquette:
1. You may not quote private Moderator-supplied information (either real or fabricated) of any kind. Paraphrasing is acceptable.
2. There is to be NO personal communication outside of the forum postings. This includes Spies!
3. As a general rule you should aim for one post every 48 hours, minimum, to keep the game moving.
4: You may talk at ALL stages of the game. This means during proposals, voting, and missions. There is never a period where communication is banned.

Miscellaneous/Mechanics:
1. Bold, blue text is reserved for the Mod.
2. No invisible/small text is allowed, nor is cryptography, or obscuring text in any way.
3. If you have an issue/problem with the game, please PM the Mod privately. Do not post issues/complaints in the game thread.
4. The Mod may make mistakes - please point out any mistakes gently. Mistakes will be corrected where possible, but sometimes mistakes are made that cannot be reversed. These will stand as final to be commiserated over after the game.
5. Please bold and double hashtag ## all requests to the Mod so that they don’t get missed. This includes all final actions (giving out plot cards, proposing a team, public vote if you have Opinion Maker).
6. Prods of missing players will be issued automatically after 72 hours of no activity or upon request after 48 hours of no activity. A prodded player has 48 hours to respond or risks replacement. A player who has been prodded 3 times is subject to replacement without further notice.
7. Rule violations will be dealt with according to their severity.
8. If you anticipate being unavailable for more than a 48-hour period please post a notice to that effect in the thread. Treat this game as a commitment. Be considerate – don’t leave us hanging.

The next post is reserved as the information dump. Please do not post until the game has been started.

82

Dominion: Dark Ages Previews / Dominion: Dark Ages on Rio Grande Games' Website

« on: May 23, 2012, 08:23:40 am »

Didn't see a topic about it yet, so for those who haven't seen it:

http://www.riograndegames.com/games.html?id=421

Times have been hard. To save on money, you've moved out of your old castle, and into a luxurious ravine. You didn't like that castle anyway; it was always getting looted, and never at a reasonable hour. And if it wasn't barbarians it was the plague, or sometimes both would come at once, and there wouldn't be enough chairs. The ravine is great; you get lots of sun, and you can just drop garbage wherever you want. In your free time you've taken up begging. Begging is brilliant conceptually, but tricky in practice, since no-one has any money. You beg twigs from the villagers, and they beg them back, but no-one really seems to come out ahead. That's just how life is sometimes. You're quietly conquering people, minding your own business, when suddenly there's a plague, or barbarians, or everyone's illiterate, and it's all you can do to cling to some wreckage as the storm passes through. Still, you are sure that, as always, you will triumph over this adversity, or at least do slightly better than everyone else.

This is the 7th addition to the game of Dominion. It is 500 cards but is not a standalone. It adds 35 new Kingdom cards to Dominion, plus new bad cards you give to other players (Ruins), new cards to replace starting Estates (Shelters), and cards you can only get via specific other cards. The central themes are the trash and upgrading. There are cards that do something when trashed, cards that care about the trash, cards that upgrade themselves, and ways to upgrade other cards.

Mmm... so, 35 Kingdom Cards, seem to remember that's about what I expected. That means 385 cards accounted for, plus two for each victory card. Then there are Shelters, which there's at least 12 of (probably >=18 of for 6 player), and Ruins, which could really be any number... but either way that leaves about 100 cards between Ruins, cards only gained cards from other cards, extra Shelters and anything else I've missed.

83

Dominion General Discussion / Which expansion is best for a new player?

« on: March 29, 2012, 07:58:04 pm »

Inspired by the favourite expansion thread, and because we (Peppy and I) were getting a little derailed in discussion regarding Cornucopia, I've decided to make a thread.

Here was the discussion we had so far.

...
It is also the set I feel most comfortable recommending to any new player looking to get into Dominion beyond the base set.
...

I'm not trying to make an argument against an opinion, but why is this? I'd say it was one of the worst expansions to get as a first one, perhaps ahead of only Alchemy and maybe Hinterlands (I assume you mean Base game+1 expansion).

The high power cards will lead regularly to games being Cornucopia heavy, as base game is on the whole weaker on average. I don't mean there'll be more Cornucopia cards, just the ones there are will generally be the most important by a moderate margin, which isn't really good in my opinion.

The cards are a reasonable bit more complicated than those in some other expansions, in both effect and strategy. Sure, adding new complex strategy is fun, but as a first expansion, I'd say go for the medium level complexity first.

It's a small expansion and moderately new, meaning it's probably the most expensive expansion per card. Perhaps this is a matter of opinion, but I'd more strongly recommend a better value big box, and add a small box or two when they just want something to keep the game fresh.

So... yeah. In terms of recommending expansions, I'd probably suggest Intrigue first (for the extra base cards - a reasonable number of face to face games are in bigger groups, I find), but if the base cards are unnecessary, probably Seaside next, then Prosperity (Colony and the like are great, but with just Base+Prosperity things get a little top-heavy in terms of cost, I'd say).

If someone were getting two expansions at once though, I'd probably be more willing to recommend Cornucopia... the extra complexity and power surge gets hidden away a little.

Yeah, I probably shouldn't have said this without explaining it, I just didn't want to derail the thread - so, overlong off-topic 100% opinion-based ramblings ahead! I feel bad, there is probably even a thread for this already from way back when (edit: well, I checked, and apparently there isn't one). I know this is crazy long; having friends that have often asked me this question or that I've introduced the game to means I've thought about it a lot, and I'm really bad at condensing things. A big factor in my opinion about this (and it is just an opinion, and a biased one) is based on 3-4 player games IRL and playing with new players who are usually resistant to brutal attack cards. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.

I do agree that Alchemy and Hinterlands are the worst sets to introduce to beginners - Hinterlands for having way too many different mechanics for new players to really understand what they're doing, Alchemy for being so brutal and action-chain oriented. I personally got all the expansions in order, and I don't think that's a terrible way to go, but I don't believe that it's the very best way to ease people in.

If you need the extra base cards than Intrigue is really the only choice, but assuming you don't I can't really get behind it recommending it as a first expansion. The biggest problem is one it shares with Seaside: brutal attacks that stack nastily in multi-player. Intrigue has Torturer, Saboteur, and Swindler; Seaside has Pirate Ship, Cutpurse, and Ambassador, and that's ignoring non-stacking but still horrifying stuff like Sea Hag, Minion and Ghost Ship. Speaking from experience, all of these cards can easily make four player games (God forbid 5-6) infuriating to the point that I've seen new players give up on the game after one go. Besides that, Intrigue's "choices" theme is a great one, but it isn't the most inviting to players used to the relative simplicity of the Base set. Pawn, Secret Chamber, Masquerade and Minion are all cards I dread showing to new players - the former two have lead to some of the most aggravating games I can remember. Choices that effect other players are obviously a huge part of Dominion, but Intrigue throws a ton of them at you all at once. Seaside and Prosperity both add plenty of mats and tokens and other things to keep track of, not to mention the duration mechanic, which is awesome, of course, but forces a lot of "wait, so how many actions do I have now?" kind of questioning. All of those things are sure to overwhelm coming straight from the Base set,

Soooo, finally, why Cornucopia? For one, I kind of like the idea of starting newer players out with a smaller set. That's probably just personal preference, but when all you know is the Base set it might be better to bridge the gap with a manageable amount of new stuff and then ramp up to the big guys. It helps that for all of Cornucopia's perceived complexity, it's really a pretty simple set, if not to play strategically then at least to understand quickly. Remake, Hunting Party, Young Witch and Fairgrounds are all somewhat self-explanatory variations of Chapel, Lab, Witch and Gardens, Farming Village is going to confuse a new player less than, say, Mining Village, and Fortune Teller is one of the simplest attacks in the game. The overall theme of variety is really easy to grasp;  it only takes a successful play or two of Menagerie or Harvest for anyone to get the basic concept down. Horse Traders is a much simpler reaction than something like Secret Chamber, and unlike that card is an actual counter to Militia. Hamlet is similar to Pawn but with half the choices and the ability to draw a card before a decision is made - a much better introduction to the concept of choices, I think. Jester does a great job of solving the 'stacks in multiples' problem of the other sets' more brutal attack cards, still being much better in 4 player but balancing that out with a nice dose of luck. That leaves Tournament and Horn of Plenty as the only cards with real possible learning curves, but their uniqueness is a good thing.

It takes some time to play Cornucopia's cards optimally, I'll give you that. You could say the same of any expansion. But nobody is going to read them and be confused about just what their purpose is in the same way they would for several of the cards from other sets listed above and plenty that I haven't even mentioned. It's not going to turn people off thanks to powerful attacks. It adds few difficult to understand concepts or foreign choices, no mats, no tokens, no dual-type cards, no clutter, only prizes. It bridges the gap to Prosperity by introducing just one Kingdom treasure card (not counting Diadem).

Quick Edit: You mentioned Cornucopia being a bit too powerful, and it maybe overwhelming the Base set cards. With a couple exceptions, I don't think it's a much bigger leap than Intrigue or Seaside, less of one than Prosperity, and it has the added benefit of encouraging variety, which means that in order for a lot of Cornucopia's cards to actually be powerful you kind of have to incorporate Base set stuff.

I agree with some of those attacks. Ambassador, Sea Hag, Pirate Ship (for new players) and Ghost Ship can all be problematic for large groups. In Intrigue, Minion is less of a problem (beginners don't get why they're so good, and in multiplayer... they're still not), but Torturer, Saboteur and Swindler, yeah, I can see the dislike for them. So in terms of attacks, yes, Seaside and Intrigue can lead to some nastier games.

Regarding mats and tokens... sure, you can construct a game with all the crazy new confusing mechanics at once, but in all likelihood you'll see 1-3 duration cards and perhaps one mat or token card, if that, when you first introduce seaside. I don't think it's that complicated at all. And the only issue I've ever found with durations is remembering to keep them out and do their thing, tracking isn't an issue so much (there are worse cards for tracking... Hamlet.). Prosperity is even more tame, there's one card with a mat, and three with VP tokens. You might see one, maybe two, and the VP tokens take one or two plays of the card to understand what they're doing. Not a problem.

Again, small set vs. Large is probably a matter of preference. If it was someone just looking to make the game a little more exciting for their occasional plays, I'd agree with small set. But otherwise, if it was someone who was likely to play a lot more Dominion I'd definitely recommend a big set. As for Cornucopia's cards:
Remake: You brush this off as simple, but the trashing exactly two and gaining cards costing exactly one more is slightly confusing at first. Moreso than say Upgrade, which is just one card.
Hunting Party: It's easy to make mistakes with this (I still do) as you have to do quite a few things with the card - draw, then reveal your hand, then reveal cards from deck, then put one in hand. Easy enough but a little complex.
Young Witch is... not simple. It has weird reaction timing, it has weird setup rules and you need to mark that Bane somehow. It's hardly a self-explanatory version of Witch.
Fairgrounds is generally okay, but the granularity of it's points can throw people.
Farming Village I don't think has much on Mining Village, a little simpler but they're both simple cards.
Oracle too.
Menagerie is pretty straightforward, although it's a little confusing to have say Menagerie/Menagerie/X/Y/Z and get the +3 card bonus.
Harvest is simple, yes.
I don't think Horse Traders is really any simpler than Secret Chamber. Easier to see why it's useful but not really easier to use.
Hamlet has tracking issues for buys and actions, which can get very confusing. Pawn is just as bad, but most of the time your Pawns will do very similar things. Hamlet tends to be a little worse for me in that regard, so I'd be a little more afraid of using it with newbies.
Jester is simple enough, I guess, after you've played it once or twice.
So I think there's more than just Tournament and Horn which are confusing. Most of the set can be confusing in some way, especially to a beginner, but notably, Young Witch and Hunting Party are also somewhat difficult to grasp.

I have to admit, there's less of an issue there than I thought... it's mostly just I dislike the set I think  . Well, dislike it being overpowered in general at least. I think it is much worse than Seaside, Prosperity or Intrigue - Remake, Young Witch and Tournament are considered three of the best $4's, Hunting Party is one of the best $5's, and Hamlet is one of the best $2's - that's 5 cards out of 13 considered in the top ~15% of their price range (it doesn't take a lot of work to realise that you'd expect about 2, so that's twice as many power cards as you'd expect!). I was definitely extreme saying it would overshadow the base set, but considering the base game has perhaps... two of those same high level power cards (Witch, Chapel), you can see Cornucopia will often be the main player in the games. All things considered... I think I might recommend Cornucopia a little more highly now, or at least, small expansions more highly.

84

Puzzles and Challenges / One action, big change

« on: March 15, 2012, 10:14:18 am »

You're playing a two player game, and your partway through your turn. You've done things already, and as a result the game is ending this turn. And ending the game this turn was probably pretty stupid - you're 85 VPs behind, and you only have a single card (action) in hand and nothing on deck or in your discard. Sighing, you play that one action. After fully resolving it, you do nothing else in your turn (end your action phase and skip your buy phase), and win the game

What was the card, and what happened?

(As far as I know there's only one solution, although you can change some of the details to get slightly different results. As a bonus, what's the maximum VPs you can win by?)

85

Variants and Fan Cards / A slightly different card idea... Bluff.

« on: March 01, 2012, 08:50:27 am »

Bluff
Action - $5(?)
+1 Card
Place a card from your hand face down and name an action card. Any other player may announce that you are bluffing. If no-one does, play the face down card as if it were the named card. If someone calls bluff, reveal the face down card. If it was the named card, +$2 and play the card (if possible). If it was not, that player draws a card, and you play the revealed card.

So, this is an idea I thought of recently based obviously on bluffing, which I was inspired by from another game (the Gambler race in Cosmic Encounter to be precise). The idea is obviously, you can play any card from your hand as though it were any other card, but anyone else could call your bluff and leave you forced to play a copper, or (fail to play an) estate and give them a free Lab effect. I'm really not sure how much it should cost, but I suspect $5 as a start mark might be good start - it's a different cantrip even if it's effect fails, it can be a Psuedo-Grand Market OR transform anything into anything else for a turn if it succeeds.

Just in case I'll give some rule clarifcations for it: If two or more people call your bluff simultaneously take the first one clockwise as the calling person (first on your left). If you would have to play a card which cannot be played after your bluff (e.g. claim an Estate is a village and someone called it), then return it to your hand. Note that you CAN play action cards and it doesn't take an action to do so (which is why I caled the card a 'different cantrip'.

And just for reference the benefits/penalties are changable, they're what I initially thought of which would be good. But something else may be better.

86

Help! / My oponent goes for the amazing Highway/Salvager combo... how did I lose this?

« on: February 04, 2012, 06:51:30 pm »

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201202/04/game-20120204-154141-dc7d239d.html

Key cards: Highway, Salvager, Harem, Vineyards.

Eyeing up the board, it looks like an obvious BM game. There's Highways but the only +buy are Salvager (which I percieved as a total nombo) and Woodcutter, which seems a little too slow. Salvager is the only trashing, and with so little +actions, it just seems a fairly straight BM game would be best here. With that in mind, I opened Cutpurse/Silver with the intent to get to Gold quickly, then buy Harems/Provinces, grabbing some Highways if I hit $5 early (as they can't really hurt).

Well, my opponent goes for Salvager. An acceptable opening buy. I pass on them, as it severely weakens Highways and I don't want to be stuck with Silvers for $5. Things seem to be going okay. I get up to $6, grab a few Gold, then start hitting provinces. My opponent has also grabbed Highways, and seeing him Highway into Salvager, I figure I've got an easy win.

About 6 turns later, and I'm wondering why I'm not further ahead than I am. I don't seem to be doing too well on grabbing Provinces - were those Highways a bad plan? Should I have gone for a Jester instead? I grab a Woodcutter - I only have one other terminal, after all, so the +buy might actually help.

Later still and I seem to be struggling. Despite all expectations, I'm falling behind on Provinces and he's starting down Vineyards. I grab at the Duchies and Harems, but it's no good. I seem to have lost. My shuffle luck didn't seem that bad, and I pretty much just played BM with Highways and Harems, yet I got trounced by what I'd dismissed as a totally sub-par strategy. What was my core mistake? Did I green too early? Were the Highways totally the wrong move? Did I just get unlucky and not realise?

87

Dominion General Discussion / Some hypothetical questions about cards

« on: February 03, 2012, 07:54:30 am »

Basically, I've been wondering recently, what if card X cost 1 more, or 1 less, or did/didn't give a buy, or something else relatively small. Mostly relating to cards at the top/bottom end of their price range, with a similar card to compare to. And with Qvists list's, it's actually possible in some sense to say how much a card would change, which is nice.

But anyway, the things I've been wondering are:
1) What if Wharf didn't have that +buy, but Merchant Ship did?
Donald says Wharf got the buy to compare more favorably with MS... was it truly necessary? Certainly, Wharf's buy is very useful, but I doubt Wharf would really fall out of the top 10 $5's without it, or not by much if it did. And Merchant Ship would certainly benefit - that next turn essentially now has a free Grand Market thrown in. But I still think Wharf would be a lot better than MS.

2) What if Ambassador cost $4?
Opening double Ambassador is often a very strong move, and Ambassador itself is very powerful. The jump from $3 to $4 is not huge, so preventing the double Ambassador opening and not much else doesn't seem like it would ruin the card or the card's availability much. Ambassador would still be a top $4, methinks, but would probably open Ambassador games up a little.

3) What if Adventurer cost $5?
Adventurer is generally a bad card, not because it's weak, but because it does too little for it's cost. It's uncommon to see a board where Adventurer > Gold. But then, Gold and Adventurer have the same cost. If Adventurer cost only $5, well, would they suddenly become too powerful? It's a big drop down into $5 territory after all. The best comparison is probably Harvest. Harvest will often get you $3, occasionally $4 or $2, and cycles 4 cards. Adventurer gets you twice the average value of treasures left in your deck - generally this will be about $2 early, rising towards $3-4 mid-lategame and not slowing down when you start greening, and cycles... some cards. I don't think there's a big difference personally, although of course this ignores one big fact: Adventurer draws specific treasures. So if you can arrange to draw those specific treasures it can be far, far better for you and can set up some combos. So it might be slightly better than Harvest. But Harvest is hardly one of the power $5's.

Those are the main things I've been pondering recently. I'm not saying I think they should be changed (otherwise, I'd have gone to the variants forum to be ripped to pieces ), and I'm not saying Donald made a mistake with these cards, but I do think some of these cards, now we've had a while to play with them and see what they do, just slightly stick out to me.

88

Puzzles and Challenges / Challenge: Dominion Rock-Paper-Scissors

« on: January 15, 2012, 01:53:09 pm »

(Note: This challenge will require use of simulators, but also a lot of non-simulator related thinking. I also don't know if this challenge has a solution, but I suspect it likely does)

The challenge is simple in concept: Construct a Dominion board with three 'optimal' strategies, such that strategy A will beat strategy B, strat B beats strat C and strat C beats strat A, and there isn't a strategy which beats all three.

Essentially the challenge is two parts: Firstly making the board so these strategies exist, and second making some simulator scripts which show the A>B>C>A strategies. Note that if two of the strategies are very close (e.g. C beats A 45.5-45) then it's not unlikely that A could just be optimised to beat C, and C might not be able to recover that loss, which would make A simply the dominant strategy.

I've done a little thinking about this, and have the following thoughts. None of them will probably be that mind-shattering, though.

To get the RPS effect, you're certainly going to need some kind of player interaction. Although I'm not sure what kind would work.
A good start might be using attacks and counter-type defences - e.g. a player buying Tunnels might not do well against the Council Room player, but would have a good shot against the militia opponent. Or using cards which turn specific opponent attacks into an advantage.
The main difficulty is probably going to be there NOT being an optimal strategy that beats all three. I reckon finding three strategies in a (rather strong) RPS effect might be a good start, though.

89

Variants and Fan Cards / Fan expansion: Wedding (early design days, some playtesting done)

« on: January 04, 2012, 07:19:44 pm »

This is a set of cards I've been working on for a while. These ideas are in, I guess, the alpha stage - I'm still creating new ideas and testing them, although me and a friend have started playing with many of these cards. In that way, there's been a little playtesting, but nowhere near enough to have a really good feel for the cards.

Also, because I'm still in the early design stage, I haven't started making images yet. If I do that, it'll be close to when I'm happy to try and make the cards.

The theme of the set, as the name implies, is of a wedding: There's all kinds of celebrations going on, and lots of people are busy with the marriage ceremony itself. And as it's such an important wedding, all kinds of new people have come to the palace, hoping to enjoy the fun, or perhaps make a profit from the experience. But there's also a few shady characters who've turned up...
Mechanically, it's slightly vaguely about being able to do clever and/or sneaky things. Part of that ended up being cards that do something when you buy or gain them (I had that theme before Hinterlands came out...). Other parts are cards that are more powerful under certain conditions, and cards with choices.

What I'm looking for mainly is feedback. Have I missed something about a card that makes it too good? Or too weak? Could a card break the game? Perhaps there's a combo that does. Is the wording bad? I intend to eventually make these cards for use, although that might be a way off yet.

Sect
Action - $1
+1 action
Trash a card from your hand
When you buy this card, gain a curse then return to the action step of your turn, and +1 card, +1 action, +1 buy.

Alright, the cards are in cost order, so we get the craziest card first. I wanted something that could help balance out bad draw luck, but with a cost. Returning to the action step is a pretty funky way of doing that. The card itself is pretty weak: It CAN possibly trash that curse it came with, and maybe trash some Estates, but in general, the card is just going to slow you down. This card has had some testing, and it felt okay to us - it's interesting to try and take advantage of, and better in games which already have a lot of cursing. It has a cost of $1 because, well, spending $1 to try and take advantage of your hand is sometimes worth it. Spending $2 rarely is. It does change how certain trash for benefits cards work which ask for exact costs, but, well, that's just a new thing sometimes.

Merchants
Action - $2
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy

And then we get to a nice, slightly boring card. Probably the simplest way of getting an extra buy yet, and yet because of it's cheap cost, it can really change things. You're never hurt by having this card, but then again, by the time it could really help, maybe you don't want to buy it? In testing, this felt the right power.

Ceremony
Action - $3
Reveal the top card of your deck and put it into your hand.
If it is an:
Action card: +2 actions
Treasure card: +$2
Victory card: +2 cards
Curse card: Trash a card from your hand.

It's like a Tribute that hits yourself! In fact, there's a certain positive synergy about this card. Building a big actions deck? Well, you're more likely to hit action cards and get more actions. Big money? You're probably going to get more money from it. Greening early? Uh... well, have some more cards? I guess that one doesn't really work... but either way, this is a nice, slightly risky, cheap card. My friend who I've been playtesting with seems to really like it (as in he buys it a lot)... I've bought it a bit less, I think.

Monopoly
Action-Reaction - $3
$2
---
When another player gains or plays the card your monopoly token is on, you may reveal and set aside this card. At the start of your next turn, discard this card and +$3
---
When you gain this card you may place or move your monopoly token onto any kingdom supply pile.

A card relying on other people’s strategies. If this card fails to hit, it’s a terminal silver. If it succeeds, it’s essentially a Gold. How do you make it hit? choose a pile your opponent is likely to play a lot. Most significantly, this will deter others from focusing on a single card, lest you play the game with essentially cheap Golds the entire way. Might be too powerful in multiplayer, especially when there’s a real dominant card in the setup.

Statue
Action - $3
+2 Cards
You may reveal a statue builder from your hand. If you do, +1 action.
---
You may only buy or gain this card if you have a statue builder in play or reveal a statue builder from your hand.
---
Setup: Choose another kingdom pile in the supply costing at most $4 (if possible). Cards from that pile are the statue builder cards.

The full rules for choosing the other kingdom pile are: Choose one costing at most $4 if possible by any means (random recommended). If that can’t be done, choose the cheapest pile. So... just what is this card? It’s a cheap lab, if it works. If not, it’s pretty poor. It might actually be a bit weak at $3, but it’s a very nice card, especially when it comes up in a strange place. Navigators are Statue Builders? Hm, okay, do I get a Navigator to power my Statues or just avoid them? (this one has come up - I managed to build a very slick deck around them). It can really encourage the use of unusual cards, far more than Young Witch might. But it could also make a dominant card even more dominant...

Street Performer
Action - $3
+$2
At the start of your cleanup phase, choose two of your cards other than Street Performers in play and shuffle them into your deck.

This started life as a Chancellor variant (something like, when you discard this, set your deck aside, shuffle your discard pile and place it as your deck, then discard the set aside cards). That was insane, just, totally ridiculous. This is amusing now something of an anti-chancellor - it slows down your next shuffle! But in exchange, you hopefully get two of you better cards twice this shuffle. It’s a bit weak early on, when you’re probably returning coppers and maybe a Silver, but later on, you can really notice the benefit of shuffling a Gold back into your deck. Might want to bump this one’s cost up... so far, it’s seemed okay, a little on the strong side, but we’ll see.

Celebration
Action - $4
+1 Action
+$1
You may put a Celebration from your hand onto this card. If you do, +2 cards, +1 action, +1 buy, +$2

I like to think of this as being a mini-festival. If you can get Celebrations together, your net benefit is essentially +1 action, +1 buy, +$3, compared to Festival’s +1 action, +1 buy, +$2, -1 card. So that’s a card and coin better than a Festival. If you can’t, it’s a copper. This one’s had a bit of testing, but it needs more to work out exactly what benefit(s) it gives. Fortunately since it’s just lots of basic bonuses, it should be easy enough to adjust around.

Cobbler
Action - $4
+3 Cards, +1 Action
Put two cards from your hand on top of your deck.

It lets you organise part of your current and next hand. It’s a bit like Secret Chamber’s reaction, in that way. Sound bad? It’s surprisingly powerful. You might also compare it to Warehouse, but... that’s not a hugely fair comparison, discarding and returning to your deck are hugely different after all. This does give you 1 more card in hand compared to warehouse, so I guess it’s essentially a Cantrip. Like Sect, this one helps avoid some shuffle luck, letting you balance part of your hands out. I’d say the most similar comparison this has is with Courtyard, but, this is non-terminal, and you return two cards.

Con Artist
Action-Attack - $4
+1 Action
Each player (including you) may discard a card. If they do, they draw a card.
Each other player reveals their hand. They discard a card you choose and then draw a card.

The first (but not the last) attack, and it’s an interesting one. This started without the second line (with you revealing in the second part), and while that was generally fine, I could see it would very often be totally brutal, completely ruining someone’s hand, especially in multiplayer. So to compensate, it gets a benefit to other players first. First, so the card will still usually hurt. Because of that, it’s easy to damage someone’s hand, but very hard to completely wreck it. In playtesting, this managed to really hurt me one game as it hit my Mystic (coming later!) three times in a row - but I think that was before I added the weakening clause.

Illusionist
Action* - $4
Reveal three cards from your hand. If you reveal exactly one treasure, action and victory card, +1 Card, +1 Action, +1 coin. Return the revealed cards to your hand.
---
When this card is visible, you may choose what type this card has.

Firstly I need to define what makes a card 'visible'. In short it's when someone else can see the card. A card is visible if it is revealed, in play, in the supply or is about to be put into play. This means it can be played during your buy phase, if you want (which could be useful if you draw it dead... and have another action in hand). It's also (supposed to be) visible in any corner case I might have missed that other people could see it (like... on your island mat). Now what does choosing what type it has mean? It means say, if you gained one with an Ironworks, you can choose for it to be an Action-Victory-Treasure card. If you play an illusionist and reveal a Great Hall, a copper, and an illusionist, choose for it to have no type (or be a curse, or whatever). Also as a rules point: You can choose Illusionist to have any type of a card currently in the game. So it can be an attack (if you wanted) only if there's an attack in the game, or a prize only if Tournament is in the game (but that DOES mean you can gain one from winning Tournaments... if you really wanted).

Well that's a lot of rule clarification, but hopefully you can imagine situations this card can do interesting things for you. And if there aren't any... well, it interacts with itself.

Wedding
Action - $4
Choose one: Trash two cards. If you do, gain a Duchy, putting it on your deck. OR Trash two victory cards. If you do, gain a Gold.

I’ve already mentioned this card elsewhere (in a thread with a worrying similar name to this one, I think). And I’ve already mentioned it’s very swingy, which I think I’m going to fix. A possible change is making the trash two victory cards gain something slightly weaker... maybe a card costing $5 or less? I’m not sure.

Mystic
Action-Attack, $5
+3 cards
Choose one: each other player gains a curse, placing it on his Mystic Mat. or each other player puts a curse from his Mystic Mat onto his discard pile.
---
At the end of the game, return all cards on your Mystic Mat to your deck.

Yay, cursing attack . And in terms of actually being an attack, it’s by far the tamest curser so far, splitting the damage of curses into two parts, the -vp, and the actual card. I suspect this will often alternate between the two options, at least until near the endgame. It originally had +1 buy but slightly weaker wording, that didn’t really feel overpowered, but I liked this version more and have enough +buy cards in the set.

Dowry
Action - $5
+2 Cards
+$2

The only other basic card, but still an interesting one. This can be interesting in both an engine (where the +$2 makes up for the small drawing), or as a single card BM deck (I suspect it’d comfortably beat single/double Smithy... with a 5/2 opening). Despite being possibly the 2nd oldest card (behind Cobber IIRC) in the set, it still needs more testing for me to get truly comfortable with it’s effect.

Redecorate
Action - $5
Trash this card. Put your deck into your discard pile. Search your discard pile for up to two cards costing up to $6, reveal and trash them. For each trashed card, gain a card costing at most $1 more than the trashed card.

How do you describe this card succinctly? A one shot trash-for-benefit, I guess? Unlike most TfB cards, it’s very open in what you can do (trash any cards in your deck, gain any cards costing up to $1 more), but it IS a $5 one shot. This card can really lead to some interesting strategies - in particular, you can essentially change strategy on the fly, which can cause all kinds of interesting things. You can also use it to gain 6 VPs in the endgame from Duchies, if you time it right... It used to have a no victory card condition. I might change that to an action or treasure card clause, and remove the up to $6 clause. But in playtesting it didn’t seem too bad.

Smelt
Action - $5
+3 Cards
Reveal your hand and trash two Copper cards. If you do, gain a Silver, putting it into your hand. Each other player may trash a Copper from their hand or gain a copper, putting it into their hand.

This started life as a one shot Smithy - +3 cards, trash this card and any number of coppers. It was okay, but you either bought it turns 1 or 2 or never at all (it also cost $4, then $3). Now it’s a smithy with trashing benefits. Unsurprisingly, that was too powerful, and so it got a benefit to other players. So far I managed to have my opponent buy one of these, making me decide I’d use it to trash my coppers, and throne room it, when I had no coppers in hand (7 of about 16 cards in my deck), and then proceed to Redecorate it into a Gold. I was not amused. Still, it won him the game.

Developing Village
Action - $5
+2 Cards
+2 Actions
Discard a card.

I had such a sad when I first saw Inn, as it was this but more interesting. Oh well. I’d say it’s different enough to still exist... just about. The net benefit is just village, but choosing the best 5 of 6 cards (usually) is a lot better than just drawing a card.

Palace
Victory - $6
2 VP
When you gain this card, gain a Duchy.

I had all kinds of visions of this card doing interesting things when I first imagined it. Then... nothing really happened. It just sits there, until the endgame, when it gets bought if you have $6. On top of that, Farmland kinda did what it was trying to do, only a lot better. Darn you Donald and your good card design. I need to find something to replace this, ideally that’s something similar, but a bit different.

Unnamed card
Action - $3
+2 Actions
+1 coin for every two actions in play, including this.

Yeah I haven’t thought of a name for this one. Perhaps unsurprisingly it also hasn’t been tested yet. It’s kinda like a village combined with bank. You might need this in order to play lots of actions this turn, but then it probably won’t give you much (or any) money. And you really need to play a lot of actions for it to provide much money, but if you do, it can provide a lot. The whole idea might just break down in big action chain decks, if this can quickly start giving like $4 or more easily... but I’ll have to see.

So that’s what I have so far. 18 cards, including 2 attacks, 1 reaction, 1 victory card. I’m intending to get up to roughly full Dominion size (~25 kingdom cards), but if I don’t make it, oh well. Still, some feedback and ideas for polish might be nice. Thanks.

90

Help! / What went wrong in this big draw board?

« on: January 03, 2012, 10:14:25 pm »

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201201/03/game-20120103-191042-ccc5cb8d.html

Both of us had the same idea. Build a big draw engine, draw most/all of your deck, buy lots of cards. We both did... reasonably similar things. I went slightly more into Governors to get some Golds, he went more into Rabbles for the extra draw. But yet, I got totally destroyed, 6 provinces to 2, and probably would have been 7-1 had I not broken PPR to risk catching up. Looking back at the game, I had quite a bit fewer +actions, but that's really about all I can make about why I lost this one.

Anyone got any clever ideas about it?

91

Puzzles and Challenges / Most VPs in 4 turns

« on: June 29, 2011, 04:06:02 pm »

Today, one of the questions at the Sci-Fi society Quiz was to get as many VPs as possible in 4 turns, assuming perfect shuffle luck. (edit: In a solitaire game). Naturally only having one or two minutes to do so, it's unlikely anybody got the optimal strategy.

My team's was to go Coppersmith/Silver, turn 3 Coppersmith a Province, turn 4, 3 Coppers + Silver for a Duchy, gaining 9 VPs. This beat out the second best teams cute answer of going Duchy/Estate/Duchy/Estate. But I think you can do better.

So the open challenge is, getting as many VPs by any means, in 4 turns.