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Mafia Game Threads / Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
« on: October 21, 2021, 10:14:33 am »This wonderful statement is made 5 hours before mathdude's VT claim.It just doesn't make sense, trying to hide information and lie in his claim.
This wonderful statement is made 5 hours before mathdude's VT claim.It just doesn't make sense, trying to hide information and lie in his claim.
It just doesn't make sense, trying to hide information and lie in his claim.
Still annoying that Netflix' preference-learning algorithm is so bad. At the very least, you'd think it should have figured out that I am massively biased toward movies with a strong female presence, but I don't think it did.I'm not sure. I feel like at one point I got a recommended a category that was something like "shows with a strong female lead" or something along those lines, so that should exist as a category.
That is kind of funny, especially since I very rarely talk about SYou could start a new thread; if you're the owner then editing is possible.
total bs that you can edit posts and I can't btw :-|
I’m not completely ignoring what you’re saying, and I apologize if I seem to be disengaged with you. When I read your math reread synopsis, it seemed to me that it mostly boiled down to the scummmiest thing he has done is continue to suspect you and/or lack a concrete opinion. Joth followed this up with an unhelpful “yep, seems about right”I guess this is due to it being a reread rather than a proper case, but these are definitely not the things I wanted people to take away from it. But still I don't really know where it is coming from. I barely even mentioned math suspecting me, and in fact that suspicion was a major factor in why I didn't find him that scummy before starting the reread.
This is very telling I feel like. "Less Ts than expected", "scum has the Strongman" - all things scum knew at the time were true.The other thing is the LaLight kill N1. It has "trying to avoid the Doctor target" written all over it. However... that would only be a concern if scum doesn't have a full Strongman. That means that there are at most three non-T letters in the setup. And we already have
E - EFHW
M - MiX/Didds
E/C - Swowl
There isn't room for another Cop.
Are you still on this set of beliefs for setup? Is it possible that e is a cop and there are less T's than expected? Might the scum have a strongman and they went after LL for a different reason? Or is this what you would have us believe?
And at the end of it all, you concluded withIt not unfair, but I thought that my vote for math came with the implication that my mind was made up. This post that mathdude made is a major scumslip in my eyes:So all in all... math is incredibly scummy. I came into this thinking Jimmmmm was the more likely scum, now I've changed my mind. I will still reread Jimmmmm of course, who know maybe he was even more scummy.
So, I think it’s a fair question to ask if your plans had changed.
That concerns me. Because honestly, if you guys just exile Jimmmmm tomorrow based on MiX and WCD's discussion, I'm not confident you'll win - the exiles needs to be Jimmmmm and faust.Using "you" instead of "we" when referring to town, planning two exiles ahead - that is scum stuff. Town should think that there is a decent chance to get a win today, scum can only win with 2 misexiles.
I haven’t had time to do a reread of Jimmmm so my feeling about him at the moment is based on how he has interacted with folks this games, lots of questions, few conclusions, and how low key he’s been in response to pressure. It’s very pro. I’m all thinking about the LL kill N1 which seems like a pro move. Finally, when I was scum with math in the dwarf game, he was all about bussing and being suspicious of his buddies, and I’m not sure he’s done that here. But this is all thoughts and feels, which isn’t much to base a case on.See that sort of stuff is why I feel like you didn't read my posts properly. Otherwise you would have noticed that math has bussed both iguana and Swowl.
This is the superpower that most people like me don't realize they have. If you know this, and if you can do it consistently, then you never truly lose. Someone may insult you, write offensive gg, make fun of your skill, but the moment you write a good-mannered gg before you quit, they know none of it worked.I thought you consider yourself a mistake theorist? Wouldn't it make more sense to let them know that they've done something bad (which they might not realize), rather than adopting the "not giving them the win" mindset?
Plus it's kind of hard to stay motivated when the IC completely ignores what you're saying.No, Im sufficiently confident that math is scum.I think finding someone who is pushing you scummy is a very towny reaction, so I think math suspecting faust makes sense. Jimmm on the other hand is cozying up to faust in a way that makes me find him scummy.I'm going to need a signficant amount of convincing if you want me to vote Jimmmmm over math.
I think my preference is still to vote for Jimmm, but I need to think about it some more.
Will you reread Jimm in the same way that you reread math?
No, Im sufficiently confident that math is scum.I think finding someone who is pushing you scummy is a very towny reaction, so I think math suspecting faust makes sense. Jimmm on the other hand is cozying up to faust in a way that makes me find him scummy.I'm going to need a signficant amount of convincing if you want me to vote Jimmmmm over math.
I think my preference is still to vote for Jimmm, but I need to think about it some more.
Will you reread Jimm in the same way that you reread math?
I think finding someone who is pushing you scummy is a very towny reaction, so I think math suspecting faust makes sense. Jimmm on the other hand is cozying up to faust in a way that makes me find him scummy.I'm going to need a signficant amount of convincing if you want me to vote Jimmmmm over math.
I think my preference is still to vote for Jimmm, but I need to think about it some more.
Getting to work now... I have a few more thoughts to post, but they have to wait for lunch.The one thing I am sad about with the "exile" wording is that we can no longer make lunch jokes.
I'm absolutely not confident it's you. It could be you or faust.Whatever happened to this:
But if it ends up being Jim or joth, it won't really surprise me.(emphasis mine)
I don't think he did, going by this:I doubt they had the EE stuff figured out, so they'd have to think that there is lying town.
Swowl had the same EE interpretation as Dylan, and was just assuming it was true. So Swowl at least didn't think there was lying Town. I'm inclined to think it wasn't discussed in the QT, so who knows what other scum thought.
this is incorrect.. EE is 2x of 1 shot doc OR 1shot cop x2He seemed to think it's 2 of either 1-shot Doc or 1-shot Cop, but not that it could be just a single 1-shot Doc.
Although when I saw the Swowl flip I thought maybe e was a full Cop. Which must be part of why they killed him instead of Didds.IDK. I mean e didn't share any more results, that's a pretty clear indication that he wasn't a full Cop. After Swowl died he was every bit as much IC as Didds, so which of those they killed didn't matter apart from WIFOMing and killing the more dangerous one.
My list... chum to scumThis has Swowl... not quite as his first choice going into D4.
WCD - obvious
joth - nothing specific, but generally getting town vibes
e - I really want to believe the cop claim
Jim - mostly null... nothing has stood out from him since D1
Swowl - when he's here, he posts thoughtful stuff, but mostly seems to not be around or contribute much (1 week, for 1 game day... okay. But 3 and counting could be hiding)
faust - start of D3 was just way too much... seems like some hidden agenda
Maybe at this point I have a lot of bias, but this seems the kind of read that results from overreacting to your partner doing something you perceive as scummy because you already know they're scum.Swowl - when he's here, he posts thoughtful stuff, but mostly seems to not be around or contribute much (1 week, for 1 game day... okay. But 3 and counting could be hiding)this is what I mean about scum to chum lists by the way. It's D3 with a scum flip and mathdude doesn't have anything better on Swowl than "he's lurking". That's not going to help us.
Lurking through 3 full game days? That's not a fallback, or lame read. That's a scumtell. Not sure if it's one for Swowl, but I know some of my past few games, I've seen at least 1, and sometimes 2 of the scum post just enough to not get prodded, and just slide through most of the game that way. I feel Swowl's doing that here. When he does post after an absence, there were a few too many "catching up" or "just checking in, but still gone for a bit" posts for me to believe they're genuine.
But I don't agree with your conclusion... because e could be scum. If he fake-claimed guilty on partner (which I know people say is unlikely), then you all know it's actually TTTME, and there's still a possibility for the final letter to be E (another 1-shot doctor, or a real 1-shot cop), C (a real 1-shot cop), D (full doctor), or even B (roleblocker), or another T (VT). I think it's even possible e is scum and you (faust) are town and were just mistaken, while he, iguana, and their other partner are glad you jumped in hard on e so they didn't have to get as involved in the discussion.This is again pretty incriminating. From a town POV, there's no use speculating about more PRs; we had a massclaim. But scum still thinks there's some lying town out there because the letter don't match up. This theory would imply that they didn't figure out the EE stuff at Night.
So 1-shot cop doesn't make sense, based on how you presented results yesterday. Full cop makes very little sense. Scum makes more sense. Kill a partner early, get town-cred for the rest of the game, but it just didn't work out the way you were hoping.
I'm saying if e is actually town, I'd find it more believable if he's actually a full cop who lied to protect himself, than that he's telling the truth.This is further proof of that, believing that e could be a full Cop somehow.
Let's move on. Faust is right that we're getting nowhere by holding here. We're either right or we're wrong, and we won't know until a flip.Then he jumps on Swowl. The dude has been a dead man walking for a while at that point.
Vote: Swowl
X-1, I believe
Of the 4 that jumped to WCD EoD, only joth and e are still alive. I still don't get why it happened. And with the other 2 votes confirmed town now, I'm not sure what the play was. Is one of them scum? Both? Could they both be town? Why would 4 town make a last minute move like that? Sure, if they absolutely know someone is scum... but otherwise, they've left us with a useless EoD, which was effectively D1 and it doesn't help today. And because of that, I feel like the move was scum-driven.Right from the start mathdude pushes an angle that is very convenient for scum!him.
I believe I'm next in line. So if 2 or 3 more people say go ahead and there's no resistance, I'll continue the claims. But if there is still hesitation, then we should probably wait.This is seems very eager to please the crowd. The Masons already said they want the massclaim, are you looking for scum's input or what?
This is very telling I feel like. "Less Ts than expected", "scum has the Strongman" - all things scum knew at the time were true.The other thing is the LaLight kill N1. It has "trying to avoid the Doctor target" written all over it. However... that would only be a concern if scum doesn't have a full Strongman. That means that there are at most three non-T letters in the setup. And we already have
E - EFHW
M - MiX/Didds
E/C - Swowl
There isn't room for another Cop.
Are you still on this set of beliefs for setup? Is it possible that e is a cop and there are less T's than expected? Might the scum have a strongman and they went after LL for a different reason? Or is this what you would have us believe?
I haven't decided yet. I'm leaning toward scum!e, just based on timing, the vague claim, and a few other little things. But I'm not putting a vote there yet.Pretty hedge.
I've said multiple times that I think it's almost too convenient that everything lines up for if e is lying scum. I think that's the answer, and since that will no longer put him at X-1, I willThis is at a point where iguana is at 3 votes, and the only person currently voting for e. It look pretty desperate if math is scum. Would he not have gone for the bus?
Vote: e
This is very strange, considering that he townread me at the end of D1 and had this to say about MiX:I just re-read all of LaLight's 27 posts.
Basically he was pushing pretty hard for MiX and faust.
So let's go from that pool.
I know, I know, WIFOM, but we never actually sheep the dead's reads so scum won't have counted on us doing it.
Also either of those flips are going to be pretty informational.
vote: MiX
Bold added for emphasis. I know my experience here is fairly limited. But I have noticed that through my games here, the dead have an above average probability of having correct reads, yet we almost never do anything about it.
I doubt we're lucky enough that LL picked 2 on D1. But between the two, I still feel MiX is town-ish, so to start the day, I'll sheep LL's faust suspicion for now.
Vote: faust
Maybe I'm just finally getting back to my usual "I always find MiX scummy", or maybe I'm onto something. At this point in my re-reads, I'd say it's MiX or Jimmmmm, but almost guaranteed not both. If MiX is town, he's misreading Jimmmmm. If MiX is scum, he went too far in his confidence that Jimmmmm is town.So it seems like he got his reads mixed up here (no pun intended).
Now this was a weird interaction at the time, and in the light of iguana's efforts at pushing math during D1 it seems like a further distancing move.Vote: faustWhen you look for scum and can't find them, it's because Faust is scum.
Or gkrieg.
You're really grasping at straws, aren't you? Just trying to see who will bite and where. You're either super helpful and going to stumble on something good, or you're scum trying to mislead us. I don't like you sheeping my vote.
unvote
If someone wants to save me a little time and summarize iguana's posts through D1 and D2, that might save me a bit of time. But I will go through them for sure, as I feel he's one person I've basically ignored this game so far - probably the most active person I've ignored (I also have almost no thoughts on e or gk, since almost nothing they have said has stood out to me, other than their basically naked votes of me D1).This seems quite blatantly untrue, iguana was one of the people math interacted the most with during D1, how could he say he "ignored" iguana?
For now, I'm leaving my vote on iguana, but I'll gladly switch to gkrieg today too.Signaling support for a gkrieg exile.
And mathdude seems about ready to jump ship on iguana. It's also of note that mathdude ignores joth's vote for Swowl shortly before this.I like your wall post and I think it deserves consideration, but I wish it weren't a case on the towniest person in the game.
I disagree that he's the towniest. But like I said near the end of it... I went into it with a big gut scumread on iguana, then as I was getting through the posts, they weren't seeming near as scummy as I remembered. But I'm leaving my vote there now until he responds. I assume it will either assure me that he is scum, or it will give me a reason to move my vote.
Forget waiting.I guess this vote is unsurprising.
Vote: gkrieg
He hasn't posted in nearly 48 hours. But his profile says last active on forum at 12:34pm today. He's watching, and just hoping the wagon sways away from him. He's afraid if he says something, it will further incriminate him.
I believe that's X-1.
gkrieg hasn't said anything to convince me he's town. But he does raise some valid points on faust. I don't know if both could be scum (I guess maybe... if he's godfather, and he figures it's better to bus a goon?) But likely at least 1 of them are.mathdude is setting up a faust push for the next Day.
First iguana interaction.I did not realize all the Joth voters had already unvoted.
I also don't like voting MiX because of all the tryhard.
Vote: EFHW because of saltiness is something I can get behind.
You don't like tryhard, but saltiness is okay?
Vote: iguana
Let's try a better wagon here?
This is sort of my take on the whole faust opinion of providing naked votes.This starts a series of posts talking about meta stuff rather than the game itself.
Some more math/iguana interaction.-snip-
Long post about me
...
Even after all this, I still can't figure out if you find me scummy or not. I think you went back and forth 3 or 4 times, got stuck on last game a bit too long, and then couldn't decide. But after reading your posts on other people too, you seem to be in the same boat with your reads on a lot of people. Seems hedgy overall to me.
PPE Swowl's post
Okay now, this one seems quite telling!Blah, I missed swowl.
I think WCD was right about swowl. Swowl's our best shot in the dark exile, and would serve him right for not showing up when he said he would. But also it's a jerk move to exile someone just for being busy IRL when he's repeatedly like "Hey, I'll get to this later."
So maybe WCD is the jerk, not me.
Up to this point, your read on almost everyone seemed to hone on how they looked at me. You are really tunneling down on me, aren't you? Are you scum trying to buddy (or I guess anti-buddy) me, in case you get caught so it looks like I'm a partner? Or are you just a mistaken townie gone down too far? Open up and start looking at people outside of their read on me. Because if you are town, this is how you drag us down to a quick loss. Scum don't even need to do anything.
It's like the faust/Jimmmmm thing... if both town, scum would have happily let us all camp there the full D1.
I think I'm leaning town-ish for faust for now.This worries me. Town!math seems to always scumread me.
Iguana is the only vote I respect. He's looked at others, and decided to stick with me. It's wrong, but I respect it. And until his post just before this, it was like a tunnel, joth-like, not planning to go anywhere else (though I can no longer say that, since he's now said he's willing to move to get an exile).This sort of stuff seems designed to highlight how iguana busses math.
Faust, Joth… you’re my towncore. Mix and I both thought we’d win if we flipped Jimmm and math.I would not consider joth today but if we don't find the right exile I'd probably get paranoid the next day and would try to investigate him more closely.
Where are y’all at? Do you suspect one another at all?
That's why I'm feeling good about my chances.If your name isn't WestCoastDidds, you just have to figure out one other person you can trust and if you're right, we win.Well, that is not entirely true. You also have to convince the room that it's not you.
That other Town and Didds will suffice.