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Messages - AJD

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2976
2011 / Re: Prize
« on: November 28, 2011, 09:03:54 pm »
Winner's choice of expansion makes good sense as a prize, I think.

Alternatively, if theory or rrenaud happens to have a spare bag of gold or trusty steed lying around, I wouldn't say no to that.

2977
Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Another what's missing
« on: November 28, 2011, 11:31:54 am »
OK, I have a mostly coherent idea, in which case it might be Border Village.

That is correct!

You don't quite have the correct unifying factor, but you're obviously most of the way there. A small clue: the order in which the various expansions were released is relevant.

2978
Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Another what's missing
« on: November 28, 2011, 06:09:24 am »
Are you sure about the Peddler?

Yes.

2979
Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Another what's missing
« on: November 27, 2011, 02:25:07 pm »

2980
Puzzles and Challenges / Another what's missing
« on: November 27, 2011, 12:41:23 am »
I thought this one was easyish, but looking it over again maybe it's a little tricky.

Here are some Action and Treasure cards!

Alchemist
Cache
Harem
Highway
Hoard
Nomad Camp
Peddler
Quarry
Royal Seal
Talisman
Stash
Walled Village

Honorable mention: Haggler

Which action or treasure will make this list complete?

EDIT:  And now also Fortress, Masterpiece, and Merchant Guild! Honorable mention: Abandoned Mine. Dishonorable mention: Band of Misfits.

2981
Rules Questions / Re: Reactions are confusing, man
« on: November 25, 2011, 12:53:03 pm »
I am not so sure about that anymore: If you use Watchtower first and can not use it again because lose-track, is the gained card then not lose-track for any other "When gain" also ?

Presumably? The only other cards I can think of that that would affect, though, is Nomad Camp, which is the same as the multiple-Watchtower case: if you use Watchtower to trash a Nomad Camp, it doesn't bounce back out of the trash and onto your deck under its own power.

2982
Rules Questions / Re: Reactions are confusing, man
« on: November 24, 2011, 09:52:11 am »
A gained card always comes from the supply (or the Black Market deck or Prize pile - you know, some sort of unclaimed pile).

(Or the trash, in the case of Thief / Noble Brigand.)

2983
Game Reports / Re: I'm sure you've all seen this type of board before ...
« on: November 24, 2011, 09:49:23 am »
Hmm, strategy question: if you've got a KC-Wharf in play and get hit by a KC-Torturer, would it be a good choice to discard your whole hand (since you've still got six cards coming up for your next turn) instead of taking any curses?

2984
Rules Questions / Re: Reactions are confusing, man
« on: November 23, 2011, 09:14:23 pm »
I'm pretty sure the answer is no because by the time you've finished reacting with one Watchtower it's no longer "when you gain a card" in the same way that it's still "when an attack is played" with Moat/Secret Chamber.

This doesn't make any sense to me. If revealing a Secret Chamber and doing what it says takes no "time", why should revealing a Watchtower?

...The losing-track principle is what I expected the answer to this one would turn out to be.

2985
Btw, here's another thing that isotropic does wrong for the sake of convenience: It doesn't let you you choose the order to execute previous durations at the beginning of your turn. If it were to follow the rules literally, we should have to click for each and every card. Haven't heard anybody complain about this. The difference of course is that doing it that way would be more inconvenient but not susceptible to mistakes, while the way Scheme is implemented is both more inconvenient and susceptible to mistakes.
The very fact that it is susceptible to mistakes is why Isotropic should allow it, I think. With multiple durations, you have no choice that results in a different outcome. Sure, you might have a theoretical choice about whether to draw 1 card from Caravan before or after you draw 2 cards from Wharf, but the end result is that you will have drawn the top 3 cards of your deck, there is no possible choice that results otherwise. Therefore, there's no need for Isotropic to allow it. With Scheme, there is a meaningful choice (which could be called a "mistake," if you wish). You can choose a new duration card to put on top of your deck, which will result in not getting a card on top of your deck. This is a real choice, one that has a different outcome from choosing another card.

It doesn't have a different outcome from choosing "none", though.

2986
Dominion Isotropic / Re: Decline of civility on isotropic?
« on: November 23, 2011, 01:33:52 am »
This isn't a "civility" issue per se, but my opponent bought the last Province and the following baffling exchange happened:

Quote
The game is over! (All Provinces are gone.)
AJD has 24 points (4 Provinces) and took 12 turns.
v3ck has 20 points (4 Provinces and 4 Curses) and took 12 turns.

1:28 v3ck: ? ? ? ? ? ?
1:28 AJD: ...What do you mean?
1:28 v3ck: weird shuffles?
1:29 v3ck has returned to the lobby.

No, v3ck, it wasn't weird shuffles; it was I bought a Witch and you didn't. What did you think was going to happen?

2987
Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Dominon analogies
« on: November 22, 2011, 11:02:22 pm »
In a very different spirit:

Horse Traders : Stables :: Trader : Market

I see what you did there!

But in terms of actual card behaviors, I think Horse Traders : Stables :: Trading Post : Spice Merchant is fairly on-target.

2988
Isotropic should do what the card says.  Kinda black and white.  I just didn't understand it because I wasn't paying attention

It doesn't, though. Isotropic says "return an action card to your deck", not "choose an action card". Scheme doesn't determine whether the card is being returned to the deck until after you choose it. So if the interface is going to allow you choose cards that won't be returned to the deck, the prompt for doing so shouldn't be "return an action card to your deck".

2989
Rules Questions / Re: Minion, Tunnel and Reactions
« on: November 22, 2011, 04:05:04 pm »
You pick the cards to discard, you discard them all in some order as a lump.

Sorry, I don't mean to belabor the point, but I'm not sure you can logically do what you're saying here. Do you discard them in some order, or as a lump?

I don't quite see what the conflict is here. You can put the cards in some order, and then discard them all simultaneously.

One final point: Tunnel reacts "when you discard," not "after you have discarded." So I don't understand why you keep saying that you first discard everything and only then check for reactions. If Tunnel has been discarded, technically the time has already passed in which you can reveal Tunnel.

This is also a false distinction; it's the same as saying that if Militia has been put into play, the time has already passed in which you can reveal Moat. "When" on Dominion cards always means 'immediately after'.

2990
Rules Questions / Re: Reactions are confusing, man
« on: November 22, 2011, 11:35:14 am »
AFAIK one may play Watchtower and Trader to the same event, e.g. when gaining a curse  changing it in silver and then putting it on deck.

Strictly speaking Watchtower and Trader aren't revealed to the same event: Trader is revealed before you gain a card, and Watchtower is revealed after you gain it.

2991
2011 / Re: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Championships Registration
« on: November 22, 2011, 10:15:19 am »
1) AJD
2) GMT–5

2992
Rules Questions / Re: Reactions are confusing, man
« on: November 21, 2011, 09:45:33 pm »
I'll take that as a yes?
You did not get a "yes" because I wanted to be more accurate than you had been.

All right, I mean, I'm just— the rules for reactions are confusing, man, that's all. And not fully explained in the rulebooks, as far as I can tell.

2993
Rules Questions / Re: Reactions are confusing, man
« on: November 21, 2011, 08:15:30 pm »
So, to clarify, the reason you can reveal the same reaction card twice from your hand in response to a single event is because, since it's in your hand, the other players can't tell whether you're revealing one card or multiple copies, whereas with Tunnel the other players would be able to tell that you're revealing the same card twice?
The reason that we let you reveal Moat / Secret Chamber twice is because we can't tell if you had multiples or what.

I'll take that as a yes?

2994
Rules Questions / Re: Reactions are confusing, man
« on: November 21, 2011, 04:51:51 pm »
So, to clarify, the reason you can reveal the same reaction card twice from your hand in response to a single event is because, since it's in your hand, the other players can't tell whether you're revealing one card or multiple copies, whereas with Tunnel the other players would be able to tell that you're revealing the same card twice?

2995
Rules Questions / Re: Reactions are confusing, man
« on: November 21, 2011, 03:54:41 pm »
As for Watchtower, even without the Lose Track Rule, revealing it multiple times to bounce it back and forth between your deck and the trash is no different than revealing a Secret Chamber multiple times consecutively.

True! But, you know, you're still allowed to reveal the Secret Chamber or even the Moat multiple times consecutively.

For Tunnel, I believe you reveal it as you discard it. So you're not really revealing it from your hand or from the discard pile. I suppose it's just implicit that you can't reveal it multiple times during the same discard, and after the first discard, it's in your discard pile. Compare this to most Reaction cards, which get revealed from your hand and placed back in your hand afterward. Because it's still in your hand, you can reveal it from your hand again.

<a href="http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=1004.msg15493#msg15493">This post from Donald</a> suggests that Tunnel actually gets revealed from the discard pile.

2996
Rules Questions / Re: Reactions are confusing, man
« on: November 21, 2011, 02:11:32 pm »
Quote
But given that it would be terrible and broken for the card to allow you to do it, why can't I figure out what in the rules of the game stops the card from allowing you to do that?

It's probably the same thing that stops a player from reacting to an event repeatedly, continuously, without end, creating an infinite game that has no conclusion. Common sense!

Hmm? Common sense would dictate that, upon discarding my Tunnel, I should repeatedly reveal it until all the Golds are in my deck, and then stop revealing it and proceed. Clearly I'm actually not allowed to do that; it's not just common sense or common courtesy that prevents me.

2997
Rules Questions / Re: Reactions are confusing, man
« on: November 21, 2011, 01:38:59 pm »
So why can't you reveal the same Tunnel more than once? (Note: I'm not claiming you can; I just don't understand why you can't.)

(...And to clarify again here, of course I understand why you can't in the sense of "because if you could, it would be terrible and mean the card would be broken". I agree! But given that it would be terrible and broken for the card to allow you to do it, why can't I figure out what in the rules of the game stops the card from allowing you to do that?)

2998
Rules Questions / Re: Reactions are confusing, man
« on: November 21, 2011, 01:35:41 pm »
Your point about Watchtower seems to be incorrect. If I am remembering the card correctly, it triggers on a card being gained. You only gain the curse once per Witch (or whatever attack have you) being played. Thus, you get to put the card in the trash or on top of your deck, but you are no longer gaining it. It has been placed somewhere else and you are no longer gaining it.

So it seems to me that ordinarily reactions take zero game time (as it were), right? That is, someone plays a Pirate Ship, and you reveal a Secret Chamber and spend five minutes fiddling with the top cards of your deck, and once you're done, it's still "when another player plays an Attack" and you can reveal the Secret Chamber again and start over, right? Why wouldn't this apply to Watchtower equally? You gain a card, you reveal the Watchtower and move the gained card somewhere; but once you're finished doing that, no time has passed and it's still "when you gain a card".

2999
Rules Questions / Reactions are confusing, man
« on: November 21, 2011, 12:30:08 pm »
So as we all know, you can reveal the same Reaction multiple times in response to the same event. So if you reveal Secret Chamber "when another player plays an Attack", and go through the whole draw-and-discard rigmarole, once you're done with that it's still "when another player plays an Attack" and you can reveal the Secret Chamber again if you want to (or some other when-Attack reaction).

Isotropic implements this correctly for Secret Chamber, Moat, and arguably Trader. For Horse Traders and Fool's Gold it's moot, because once you've used it to React once it's no longer available to be revealed again.

For Watchtower, should you be able to (pointlessly) reveal it multiple times for the same when-gain event, bouncing the gained card back and forth between the trash and your deck until you decide where you want it? Does this have something to do with the losing-track principle?

And perhaps more meaningfully, I can't figure out what in the rules prevents you from revealing the same Tunnel more than once as it's being discarded. The losing-track principle can't be involved here; if gaining a Gold caused you to lose track of the discarded Tunnel, it would (since Donald tells us discarding happens simultaneously) cause you to lose track of other discarded Tunnels as well, and we know that's not true since you can reveal multiple distinct Tunnels in reaction to the same discard event. So why can't you reveal the same Tunnel more than once? (Note: I'm not claiming you can; I just don't understand why you can't.)

3000
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Dominion cards in haiku
« on: November 18, 2011, 01:50:56 pm »
The Jack of All Trades
trashes, filters, draws, and gains:
stronger than he looks.

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