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2926

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Fan Expansion: Strife

« on: December 12, 2011, 05:18:13 pm »

Propagandist -- $5 (Attack--Duration)
+$2
While this is in play, keep the most expensive card you bought on this turn in front of you until the start of your next turn. Each other player must buy or gain at least 1 copy of the card you bought, if he plays any cards that enable him to do so during his next turn.

I love the idea of mini-Possessing your opponents' buy phases.  That's great.

This implementation of the idea, however, has some logistical problems stemming from the fact that purchased cards go immediately into your discard pile.  That means that by the time you reach the end of your buy phase -- the soonest point at which it can be determined what the "most expensive" purchased card is -- your purchased card(s) can be almost ANYWHERE:

Is keeping track of this any worse than, say, Smugglers?

The trickier part is adjudicating what the "most expensive" purchased card is:

• Play Market, Market, Market, Gold; buy Peddler and Mining Village. What's the most expensive card you bought?
• Play Quarry, Copper, Contraband; buy Silver and Mining Village. What's the most expensive card you bought?
• Buy Province and Possession. There is officially no way to determine what the most expensive card you bought is.

2927

Dominion Articles / Re: Rank the Promo Cards

« on: December 12, 2011, 03:58:36 pm »

What about combining Stash, Hunting Parties, and terminal draw?

1.  Clump your Stashes at the bottom of your deck.
2.  Play Hunting Parties.  Dig through your deck (getting your terminal draw en route) until you hit your first Stash.
3.  Play your terminal draw, which you know is going to grab you the rest of your Stashes, rather than drawing green or dead actions.
4.  And then after your turn ends, you reshuffle, put your Stashes at the bottom, and do it all again.

For this to work, you'd want to buy exactly X+1 Stashes, where X is the number of cards your terminal draws (so, if you use Smithy, buy 4 Stashes, no more). 

The strength of the combo will depend (1) the quality of your terminal draw card, and (2) an opening that can help you hit $5 consistently to fund multiple Stash/HP buys early on.  Ideal case is #1 and #2 being the same card (e.g., Smithy on a 4/3 opening) so you can get by with fewer HPs. 

This can even work in Colony games as long as your terminal draw is +3 cards or more (Stash x4 + Silver + Copper = Colony).  In fact, a +3 or more draw card is probably better in a Colony game than in a Province Game, unless you also have +buy (Margrave, Council Room) to make use of leftover extra Stash money, either to buy more Hunting Parties (with Council Room, Stash x5 + Silver + Copper = Province + HP) or, of all things, Estates (with Margrave, Stash x4 + Silver + Copper = Province + Estate), given that your HPs are already skipping merrily past your starting three Estates.

Problem: if your first Stash gets picked up as the first of two cards drawn by HP, you will skip the rest and trigger a reshuffle.

But you'll also know if that's going to happen, so you can just play a Great Hall or something instead of that HP.

2928

Dominion Articles / Re: Rank the Promo Cards

« on: December 12, 2011, 02:35:57 pm »

I'd like to take this in a bit of a different direction and say that Black Market is, if not the best promo card, certainly the best at being a promo card. What I mean by that is just that it's an oddball card with a bizarre effect, so it makes sense for it to be sold separately as a one-off promotional card not part of a regular expansion, for people to add to their Dominion collection if they're interested in having that bizarre effect in some of their games and not if they're not. To a lesser extent, Stash is a good fit as a promo concept as well for the same reason.

Envoy was more unique when it was released than it is now, seeing as how its oddball functionality is echoed by that of Contraband. Walled Village is downright vanilla for a promo card. Not sure what I think about Governor in this respect.

Both Governor and Walled Village make sense as promos for the specific intent of the promo.  They match Carcassone and Puerto Rico pretty well, theme-wise.

I'll take your word for it about Puerto Rico, but I'm not that convinced about Carcassonne; I mean, cities in Carcassonne have walls, but they're not called "villages", and they don't particularly seem to have much to do with the gameplay effect of Walled Village either.

2929

Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Buying the last province

« on: December 11, 2011, 08:31:08 pm »

10 KC'd embargos (there's no "if you do..") would give him -24 on a province buy, no? With the -16 from fool's gold->gold->fairgrounds, I get 40. Unless I ignored a bit in the manual saying no more than 10 embargo tokens can be placed.

King's Court Embargo as many times as you want, but there's still only 10 curses in the supply.

2930

Dominion General Discussion / Re: When should you use Fool's Gold's reaction ability?

« on: December 11, 2011, 04:09:52 pm »

So, my gut feeling is, when you're greening up enough that your Fool's Golds are becoming harder to pair up in the same hand, or when it's endgame and you're unlikely to see another reshuffle, assuming trashing a Fool's Gold from this hand won't stop you from buying a Province this turn.

2931

Dominion Articles / Combo: Masquerade/Margrave

« on: December 10, 2011, 09:05:38 pm »

Obviously this combo needs some Villages to power it—ideally Fishing, but others will do in a pinch.

The gist of it is that the best time to play Masquerade is when your opponent's handsize has been hit by a Militia or variant thereof. There are two related things that can happen here:

• Your opponent discards their two worst cards in response to the attack, and thus is forced to pass you a good card when the Masquerade hits.
• Your opponent is wise to the possibility of (1), and therefore keeps a bad card in hand after the attack in order to pass to you... and may end up doing this even on turns when you don't end up playing Masquerade. On such turns, your discard attack is effectively making your opponent discard down to more like two and a half cards, rather than three, just to guard against the danger of passing you a good card if you do play Masquerade.

So why Margrave in particular? Two reasons:

• Margrave is the only hand-reduction attack that carries a large +cards for you. (Well, except Torturer; but obviously if you play Torturer on an opponent who thinks you're going to use Masquerade they'll just take the Curse.)  This has a few benefits:
  
  • You cycle your deck faster, which means your opponent is less likely to know that your Masquerade is stuck in the discard pile (and thus that it's safe to discard bad cards).
  • It means you can play Village and Margrave and then draw into your Masquerade and play that—i.e., you have a better chance of hitting the combo, rather than having to draw Village-Margrave-Masquerade in a single five-card hand.
  • On a similar note, compare the case where your discard attack is Militia: if you have two actions and Militia and Masquerade in hand, you can play Militia first and then Masquerade for the combo, but with the danger that Masquerade will dead-draw some nonterminals you'd like to play. With Margrave, your attack draws more cards than Masquerade, so you'd want to play that first anyway even without the combo.
  Ghost Ship fits this pattern to a lesser extent, since you do get +cards out of it, but your opponent top-decking a good card to dodge your Masquerade doesn't bite as much as discarding it and missing it for a whole shuffle.
• The biggest disadvantage to Margrave is that your opponent is choosing what to discard out of six cards rather than out of five. Fear of Masquerade doesn't eliminate that disadvantage relative to other discard attacks—they're still choosing their two good cards to keep out of six—but it does mitigate it a bit.

2932

Dominion Articles / Re: Rank the Promo Cards

« on: December 10, 2011, 02:15:48 am »

I'd like to take this in a bit of a different direction and say that Black Market is, if not the best promo card, certainly the best at being a promo card. What I mean by that is just that it's an oddball card with a bizarre effect, so it makes sense for it to be sold separately as a one-off promotional card not part of a regular expansion, for people to add to their Dominion collection if they're interested in having that bizarre effect in some of their games and not if they're not. To a lesser extent, Stash is a good fit as a promo concept as well for the same reason.

Envoy was more unique when it was released than it is now, seeing as how its oddball functionality is echoed by that of Contraband. Walled Village is downright vanilla for a promo card. Not sure what I think about Governor in this respect.

2933

Dominion Articles / Re: Combo: Goons/Apothecary

« on: December 08, 2011, 09:56:23 pm »

This is indeed a cool combo, though I'm not sure why you got so many other cards in the example.

Well, because I'm not that good a player and don't have enough faith in my cool combo is why, I guess. 

2934

Dominion Articles / Combo: Goons/Apothecary

« on: December 08, 2011, 09:05:19 pm »

Obviously what Goons really wants is a Village engine of some kind: you get the most value out of your Goons by playing more than one at a time, since the number of VP pellets you can get per turn increases quadratically per the number of Goons played on that turn. But what if there are no Villages, and so you can't play multiple Goons per turn? Well, at least you want to get the maximum points out of each Goons you do play, right? But this involves using up all your buys, which usually involves filling your deck with undesirable cheap cards.

This is where Apothecary comes in. Apothecary fits into a Goons deck very neatly in several ways:
1 - Early in the game, when your deck is mostly Coppers, Apothecary will put a lot of Coppers in your hand each turn, bringing you closer to that all-important first Goons.
2 - Once you're using your Goons, you can use up your extra buys on Coppers with more or less impunity: if you have enough Apothecaries in your deck, you'll filter the extra Coppers out as you go and they'll only rarely seriously clog your progress. Moreover, keeping a lot of Coppers in your deck means that each Apothecary you play is likely to add to your buying power for the turn even into the late-game.
3 - An engine built on cheap Alchemy cards often wants a source of +buy, so you can buy those Apothecaries in say a $5P hand and still be able to get a Silver or Cellar or something else useful with the rest of your money; Goons provides that +buy.

<a href="http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201112/08/game-20111208-173455-e509bd35.html">Here's</a> a log of a Goons/Apothecary game I just played; I used both buys on every Goons turn I had, ending up with five Apothecaries and eleven Coppers (and would have had more if not for my Moneylender), whereas my opponent only averaged one and a half points per Goons play. Cellar was a key support card here in a way it isn't often in handsize-attack games; Cellar interacts with Apothecary beautifully, since Apothecary both increases handsize and gives you a look at what's coming up in your deck so you know whether or not you want to Cellar out some of those Coppers.

Related strategies: Goons / Counting House; Goons / Philosopher's Stone. Also Goons/Gardens, although if you're going heavily for Gardens it can be hard to make it to $6 frequently to get Goons.

2935

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Confusable cards

« on: December 08, 2011, 03:50:09 pm »

You need more than just similar names - you also need the same price point and card type (Action, Treasure, etc.).  Which all of the examples submitted so far exemplify. 

Yeah, true... although there was a period when I always confused Coppersmith with Counting House, and they're not even at the same price point.

And I'll add another:  Cache and Stash.  "Where did all those Coppers come from?!"

I've totally done that one too.

2936

Dominion General Discussion / Confusable cards

« on: December 08, 2011, 02:55:33 pm »

This topic is inspired by an amusing chat exchange on Isotropic:

11:03 Carbon: Ha! I misread menagerie as masquerade!
11:03 AJD: Oh no!
11:03 AJD: I hate when that happens.
11:03 Carbon: I now I have all these animals in my dance hall and they're all wearing masques. It's very confusing.
11:04 AJD: I hope they're all different animals!
11:04 Carbon: It's hard to tell with the masques on!

I've never had the Masquerade/Menagerie confusion happen, but there are certainly times when I've seen Mint in the supply, thought it was Mine, and trashed a bunch of treasure I didn't want to trash; or had a plan that depended on using a Farmland buy to remodel something only to realize when I went to buy the Farmland that it was actually Fairgrounds.

What other similar-named cards do people find themselves mistaking for each other and buying when they want the other one?

2937

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Dominion Limericks!

« on: December 08, 2011, 02:39:04 pm »

challenge: In an aborted idea for this, I originally had the middle lines "But if the board has Possession / Then show some discretion" Can someone write a limerick about any card that uses these lines?

The Ambassador's tactful but mean:
An attacking, deck-thinning machine.
But if the board has Possession
Then show some discretion
Or your rivals may steal all your green.

This is excellent. One of the best so far in my opinion, both lyrically and strategically. 

Thank you! 

2938

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Dominion Limericks!

« on: December 08, 2011, 01:35:26 am »

challenge: In an aborted idea for this, I originally had the middle lines "But if the board has Possession / Then show some discretion" Can someone write a limerick about any card that uses these lines?

The Ambassador's tactful but mean:
An attacking, deck-thinning machine.
But if the board has Possession
Then show some discretion
Or your rivals may steal all your green.

2939

Dominion Articles / Re: Updating the Top 5 lists

« on: December 07, 2011, 07:43:42 pm »

My ranking
Chapel - On most boards a must buy to get rid of your start cards fast
Courtyard - The best "deck-thinner" for its price.

I think I'm not sure what you mean by "deck-thinner"?

Ok, maybe this is just my term, but I used it that often that I thought it is well-known.
If you have a big deck, these card make your deck seemingly thinner by getting your best cards in hand more often.
I don't know how you call those cards, "Cycler" maybe.

Maybe "Cycler", but that's usually used for cards like Cellar and Warehouse. "Deck-thinner" usually means 'trasher'—so it's obviously Chapel that's the best deck-thinner for its price. I think what Courtyard is is basically just "terminal draw".

2940

2011 / Re: Schedule and Results: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Championships

« on: December 07, 2011, 03:37:19 pm »

In game #5 I thought I would just use Goons/Scheme as much as possible, but then you got a Potion and I thought you'd want to get a Possession soon, so I followed suit, ditched my Masq for Potion and got a Possession first. I think this was a mistake, because the Poss conflicted with my Goons a lot. I would have probably been better to stay with my original plan, but that's the heat of the tournament.

Isn't Goons one of the best cards to have if your opponent is going to be playing Possession?

2941

Dominion Articles / Re: Updating the Top 5 lists

« on: December 07, 2011, 12:01:22 pm »

My ranking
Chapel - On most boards a must buy to get rid of your start cards fast
Courtyard - The best "deck-thinner" for its price.

I think I'm not sure what you mean by "deck-thinner"?

2942

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Which First? Duchies or Dukes?

« on: December 07, 2011, 08:56:08 am »

I don't think I've ever seen someone buy Dukes just to keep their opponent from having them.

Happened to me in <a href="http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20111204-203118-0f4560f6.html">this game</a>—in fact, my opponent ended up with more Dukes than me, each of which was worth 2 points in their deck.

2943

Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Times when you play an Action for no benefit

« on: December 07, 2011, 08:43:24 am »

Steward, Trading Post, and Farmland are relevant. So are Expand, Remodel, Develop, Transmute, Upgrade for the same reasons as Apprentice

I disagree about Farmland, or perhaps I misunderstand your post; my thinking is you absolutely want something in hand for Farmland to improve, otherwise you're spending $6 on something worse than a Duchy.
...
Unless the Duchies are out, then it makes sense. A bit of a stretch perhaps, but I guess that's why it works for the list!

I don't really disagree any more, with the caveat that Duchies are exhausted :p

Or you need to boost your Fairgrounds I guess? (Aside: I keep seeing Fairgrounds on Isotropic and thinking it's Farmland, or vice versa.)

2944

Game Reports / Re: Dear My Opponent: I am Sorry

« on: December 06, 2011, 04:19:07 pm »

Dear Judgechild:

I'm sorry I <a href="http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20111206-083419-813a91ec.html">pulled a Margrave out of the Black Market on a Chapel/Governor Colony board with no +buy in the supply</a>, thus allowing me to grab free Gold and draw my whole deck with Governors, Margrave you down to three cards, and then buy multiple Colonies. The Black Market shouldn't even have been a good buy for me, since I had too many other terminal actions at the time.

2945

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Four-player Mountebank: Estate rush?

« on: December 06, 2011, 01:40:44 pm »

Actually, isn't it actually you have as many basic treasures in the supply as everyone agrees to at the start of the game? It's just isotropic's implementation that has those numbers (which are based on the number included in with the game?)?
I'm not 100% here though, and I don't have my physical copy of the game and rules with me to check.

Hmm. The Intrigue rules say "The Treasure cards from Dominion and Dominion: Intrigue can be combined, since these cards are intended to be in abundant enough supply to not run out." So apparently it is at the players' discretion to use either 60 or 120 total Coppers in 2–4 player games, and this will have an effect on how four-player Mountebank games pan out.

2946

Rules Questions / Re: The difference between Forge and Remodel when trashing no cards

« on: December 06, 2011, 01:17:53 pm »

I appreciate that Remodel can't gain anything, but I find it difficult to swallow that the "cost" of null is undefined, but the "total cost" of null is 0.

It's because, to put it in quasi-mathematical terms, the function "total" looks for a set, whereas the function "cost" looks for a card. If there's no card, the function "cost" can't find what it's looking for (i.e., a card), so it can't output a value. But the function "total" isn't looking for a card; it's looking for a set. So even if there's no card, "total" can still find what it's looking for (i.e., a set) because the empty set is still a set, so it has a well-defined output.

In other words, No Cards isn't a card. But it is still a set of cards.

2947

Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Exception to the rule, part 6

« on: December 06, 2011, 11:12:35 am »

I'm not quite getting it. How is that any different than just Secret Chamber, then Moat? The first Moat didn't do anything, did it? Your opponent doesn't have extra knowledge, because he doesn't know if you used the same Moat twice, or if you drew a Moat off of the Secret Chamber, or what.

Well I mean, since things in Dominion happen one at a time, the first Moat protects you from the attack and the second Moat just gives your opponent the information that it's still in your hand. And I guess strictly speaking Moat–Secret Chamber–Moat also gives your opponent the information that the Moat was in hand before the Secret Chamber, though my attempts to come up with a situation in which that knowledge would make a difference to game state are pretty contrived.

2948

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Enterprise: A One-Shot Expansion

« on: December 06, 2011, 09:56:54 am »

EDIT: I just made rinkworks's change to the wording of Tinker, but now I'm worried about whether it's clear that you only put the gained card on your deck if you chose not to trash the Tinker. The other thing is that if you Throne or KC it, it now only lets you get the Remodel effect for one usage. Better choose wisely!

I wonder actually if having a remodeled card go on your deck wouldn't be a good idea. Consider the early-game scenario Rinkworks was worried about: you open Tinker/Silver, then on the first reshuffle you play Tinker and trash the Silver. So you can gain a Wharf or whatever to make up for it, but you've lost both your only Silver and your only trasher; that's not a very good bargain. And if you'd been luckier and your Tinker had hit an Estate, you probably would have bought a Wharf on the next turn anyway, so you haven't gained any momentum by doing this. If the Wharf goes onto your deck, at least you get to play it sooner than you would if you'd been luckier with your Tinker and just bought the Wharf normally—the Tinker in effect retroactively converts your Silver/Tinker opening into a (respectable) Wharf/nothing opening.

2949

Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Exception to the rule, part 6

« on: December 06, 2011, 09:46:47 am »

Jimjam's answer (the, uh, second one) is the one I was looking for! (I didn't say there was a benefit to it, just that it makes a difference.)

2950

Puzzles and Challenges / Exception to the rule, part 6

« on: December 06, 2011, 02:49:09 am »

I can only think of one answer for this one:

Under what circumstances does it make a difference if you reveal the same Moat more than once in reaction to the same attack?