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Messages - UmbrageOfSnow

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3001
Mafia Game Threads / Re: MXXVII: CLUE Mafia Day1
« on: July 12, 2013, 12:47:37 pm »
The math looks good to me there Voltaire.  My only question is what's the point of being a Vigilante who doesn't kill???

I mean, if you get the role against your will and choose not to kill because you don't have any good scum reads, that makes sense, but if you think you wouldn't want to kill, why wouldn't you just choose tracker in this setup?

3002
Mafia Game Threads / Re: MXXVII: CLUE Mafia Day1
« on: July 12, 2013, 12:21:14 pm »
DON'T YELL AT ME RAERAE!

Yeah, so Tracker suspects Hider, Psycho-Detective (I love this name).
Psychologist suspects Vigilante.
Hider causes us to suspect Vigilante.

There is a lot of inter-town suspicion there.  It seems like  choosing Vigilante is a good way to get suspected by a lot of people, and choosing Tracker is a good way to find yourself wrongly  suspecting a lot of people.  I'm not sure if that has any particular meaning though.  Maybe that the Trackerlante had better be smart?  It seems like Vigilante would be a better choice for a newer player, Tracker a better choice for a more experienced player (someone good at figuring out which of those investigations could be false alarms.)  But Tracker makes the Hider a bit better by virtue of existing, so maybe that means Tracker is better for everyone other than himself and his ability to read people?  Seems like a smart Tracker could puzzle out what the odds of someone being Hider/Psycho-Detective are, so I'd think that is the better choice, but maybe not?

3003
Mafia Game Threads / Re: MXXVII: CLUE Mafia Day1
« on: July 12, 2013, 12:10:19 pm »
Okay, so my current thought is that we should all list a reads-list, and agree for each night on an agreed upon number in that list that we would all go after if we were the hider.  Maybe start near the middle or town side on day 1, progress toward the scummy side as the days go by so we have greater odds of making that 1-for-1 trade when things start to get dire.

It occurs to me that Tracker/Vigilante could also matter to this.  If they are a Vigilante, that is one more person the hider would die for hiding behind, not so if they are a tracker.  If we're talking about coordinated hider actions, should we maybe discuss whether it makes sense for them to definitely choose Tracker, or is that whole line of conversation/reasoning likely to end up giving scum too much information?

3004
Mafia Game Threads / Re: MXXVII: CLUE Mafia Day1
« on: July 12, 2013, 12:05:05 pm »
But if the hider goes after their biggest scum read, and is right on the first day, well we confirm one scum instantly, which is good, but we have no confirmed town at all.  It seems the longer the hider stays alive, the better their odds of further narrowing down the suspect pool.
In general a 1-for-1 trade is great for town, and I don't see any reason why that would be different in this setup. We'd lynch scum the next day, and we're good.

There are 3 mafia though, right?  So yeah, 1-for-1 is great, but the hider will get a 1-for-1 trade sooner or later no matter what, assuming they hide behind someone every night.  Isn't it much much better to get a 1-for-1 trade and also learn that 1 or 2 other people are confirmed town?

3005
Mafia Game Threads / Re: MXXVII: CLUE Mafia Day1
« on: July 12, 2013, 11:59:49 am »
Sorry to keep posting like this.  I actually tend to abuse the hell out of the edit feature on forums, because I  always do a bunch of thinking about things as I read over my post once after posting it.

But the reason I'm thinking people might want to pick is also that it would give a larger number of useful turns.  The information of confirming someone as town is important, even if we don't find out until a few days in.  But if the hider goes after their biggest scum read, and is right on the first day, well we confirm one scum instantly, which is good, but we have no confirmed town at all.  It seems the longer the hider stays alive, the better their odds of further narrowing down the suspect pool.

Maybe the best result is a compromise.  The hider could pick the exact center of their reads-list.  So before night, we all list our reads, and we agree that the hider would hide behind the person dead center (or an agreed upon spot).  That way, we aren't all fighting to pick the person we all are sure is town, but we also aren't super likely to have the hider die on night 1.  And I don't know that the hider would have to adjust their play much different than any of us, given that the people in the middle we're all presumably ambivalent on?

3006
Mafia Game Threads / Re: MXXVII: CLUE Mafia Day1
« on: July 12, 2013, 11:54:28 am »
Oh, and the other problem with that is that if several people said they would hide behind the same person, scum could target that person in particular with better odds of getting two kills for one.  And people everyone has town reads on are more likely to be scum targets anyway, aren't they?

Okay, so maybe that is a bad idea, or it needs to be worked around.  What if each player had to declare who they'd hide behind, but no repeats allowed?  Does that make it any better?

Maybe random is better after all.

3007
Mafia Game Threads / Re: MXXVII: CLUE Mafia Day1
« on: July 12, 2013, 11:46:36 am »
Well, this is my first ever online game of mafia, I guess I've got to break the ice, and post something now. I mean, how are we to get acquainted if we don't say anything about ourselves? It's always difficult when a group of new friends meet together
for the first time, so I'm glad TwistedArcher started the ball rolling . . . I mean, I have absolutely no idea what we're doing
here, or what I'm doing here, or why Yuma's text now sounds exactly like Tim Curry in my head.

In all seriousness, I'm super excited.  I like TA's plan(s) for the hider, but I'm not sure which one is better.  Either way, I think having a policy for all of us is a good idea so whatever information they learn won't be lost when they die.

I think I'm leaning toward the "who would you pick" option.  That allows for judgement calls into who should be investigated.  It seems to me the Hider has increasingly good odds of dying every night, so although Mafia will almost certainly be able to piece together hints as to who it is and who's been actually getting investigation results, by the time they do, odds are the hider will die anyway.  And maybe on their last night, they'll hide behind scum!

It seems to me that the biggest problem is conveying your results.  Let's say I'm the hider.  Before night, I really suspect TA, so I say "If I were the hider, I'd hide behind TA."  Well, I survive the night, so now I know TA isn't scum.  But all day yesterday I was attacking him, pointing out how every post he made just made him scummier and scummier.  Today, someone tries to get me to vote for him and I say I don't think he's that scummy anymore.  Wouldn't it be obvious that I'm the hider at this point?  So unless the hider wants to participate in town-side bussing, it seems like maybe the hider should be targeting their town reads rather than their scum reads.  That way, their information would be retroactively useful after they died, but they wouldn't really have to change their play because of it.

I've never played with a hider before, or with this many people actually, so I could be completely wrong here...

Anyway, have fun everyone.  I am determined to enjoy myself and I'm very intrigued and oh, my, this soup's delicious isn't it?

3008
Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: Coup I
« on: July 11, 2013, 05:55:32 pm »
Lio's Duke blocked Gruj's Foreign Aid.  Then, my Captain was blocked by TA's Captain, so I failed to steal 2 coins from Gruj, but he never gained 2 from the Foreign Aid, so the starting two is correct.

3009
Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: Coup I
« on: July 11, 2013, 04:52:11 pm »
No challenge.

But,Grujah, Liopoil blocked your foreign aid.

3010
Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: Coup I
« on: July 11, 2013, 10:31:32 am »
I don't challenge the block.

(I was figuring Grujah wouldn't have a Captain, would have called his bluff on it, but I have nothing to get a read on Twistedarcher with, doesn't seem worth the risk to not believe him, because why would he risk his neck for Grujah if he didn't have it?  Of course, maybe TA's spent years building up a resistance to Iocaine powder or something...)

3011
Tactician: Can work with so many different cards, encourages complex turns, very different/fun turns.

Throne Room
: Changes how you look at all the other cards in any setup it is in.  I actually "appreciate" throne room more than King's Court, because it's less powerful and cheaper.  You can get it earlier, have more of them if you were feeling risky, and it isn't necessarily the most powerful/best idea, just one of many options.

Secret Chamber: A reaction that doesn't directly counter many attacks but always gives you a benefit, works so neatly against some attacks, really gets you thinking about counters to different attacks and provides much more interesting decisions.

Duke
: Of the alternate VP cards, this is my favorite, they all encourage different styles of play, and maybe this is just me, but I think of Duke as being something that is more often close-to-as-viable-as provinces, so it isn't clear whether or not you should go for it, or whether you should go for provinces or fight over Duchies or what.

All the other alternate VP cards: Same logic as Duke.

Rats!: So thematic, so different and kind of fun.  Takes one of the cooler but stupid bits of Transmute and makes it interesting and not stupid (often enough anyway.)

3012
Are you joking?
Minion is the dominion card I like least by far. It's so annoying amd swingy. You can have your hand of 5 awesome cards replaced by 4 crap cards, and that is the most frustrating thing that can happen.

That doesn't make the game any swingier though!  Your probability of having crap cards replaced by awesome and vice-versa is exactly the same as it is to draw crappy versus awesome cards in your deck anyway.  Minion's actual attack is basically just "discard one at random, and cycle your deck a bit"!  You never get to play the cards you drew, the probability is exactly the same as just having drawn 4 cards instead of 5 and cycling some from the bottom of your deck.

Any swinginess is purely psychological, the cards average out.

3013
Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: Coup I
« on: July 11, 2013, 08:26:23 am »
So it's been 2 days with no challenges and no blocks, does that mean the Captain goes through?

3014
Game Reports / Re: Good games we'd recommend
« on: July 10, 2013, 12:12:35 pm »
This is a great idea!

Maybe we should have a second thread for discussing some that we play though?

3015
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Fixing Dominion
« on: July 10, 2013, 02:29:09 am »

I agree that most of the proposed changes are examples of RIFLE IS FINE. Lookout burned you too many times? That should be a reason to learn when not to play it in future games, not to change the card into one that doesn't burn you.

WHY YOU WANT +$ FOR MOAT? IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH AS PROCURED FROM RIO GRANDE GAMES? YOU THINK NEEDS IMPROVEMENT? THEN MAYBE YOU FIND JOB WITH JAY TUMMELSON! YOU HAVE DRINKS WITH DONALD X. VACCARINO, TRADE STORY OF MANY GAMES DESIGNED AND DETAILS OF SPIEL DES JAHRES!

OR MAYBE YOU NOT DO THIS. PROBABLY IS BECAUSE YOU NEVER DESIGN GAME IN WHOLE LIFE. YOU LOOK AT FINE AMERICAN GAME, THINK IT NEED CRAZY JUNK STICK ON ALL SIDES OF CARDS. YOU HAVE DISEASE OF BGG SCRUB, CHANGE THING THAT IS FINE FOR NO REASON EXCEPT BE DIFFERENT FROM COMRADE. YOU PUT CHEAP +CARD OF CHINESE SLAVE FACTORY ON ONE CARD, YOU PUT BAD +BUY OF AMERICAN MIDDLE WEST ON OTHER CARD, YOU PUT FRONT PISTOL GRIP ON SCOUT SO YOU THINK YOU ARE LIKE AMERICAN MOVIE GUY JOHN RAMBO. MAYBE YOU PUT SEX DILDO ON SECRET CHAMBER TO ENJOY MAKING SHAMEFUL TRAVESTY OF GAME OF DONALD X. VACCARINO, NO?

GAME IS FINE. YOU CHANGE IT, IT ONLY GET BORING AND YOU STILL NO HIT FOUR PROVINCE BY TURN SEVENTEEN. GO TO INTERNET, PRACTICE WITH MANY MATCH OF GAME, THEN YOU NOT NEED DUMB CRAP PUT ON BOTTOM OF CARDS.

3016
Clue seems like so much fun, but I'd be in for any game, really.  (Other than that bastard one, I am not ready for that kind of thing.)

I hope we still do clue though, it seems like many of the people leaving are saying they are busy rather than that they prefer Arrested Development to Clue theming.

My biggest concern about AD themed game is that all the references I'm certain to find myself making will somehow come across scummy.  (See, I'm saying this now, so you know I'm not panicking.)

3017
Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: Coup I
« on: July 09, 2013, 04:58:38 pm »
My Captain (attempts to) steal 2 coins from Grujah!

(Sorry for the sneak preview, by the way, won't happen again.)

3018
Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: Coup I
« on: July 08, 2013, 08:59:18 pm »
EDIT: Crap, guess we're still saying if we challenge.  Sorry, I hope I fixed this before anyone saw, but I suppose it doesn't matter much at this stage of the game.

I do not challenge liopoil's block.

3019
Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: Coup I (Pregame!)
« on: July 08, 2013, 02:58:41 pm »
No fancy algorithms. I just have a deck of Coup cards right next to me, so I'll be shuffling, dealing them out , and generally just mimicking what is going on in here.

That's actually what I was hoping for.  A deck of cards is sort of a fancier algorithm that gives us more to work with.  I was afraid you'd be rolling dice or using a random number generator, deck of cards is much preferred!

3020
Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: Coup I (Pregame!)
« on: July 08, 2013, 02:21:48 pm »
Important question to get out of the way now before any of us debate claiming or not:  Are our roles distributed with a deck of cards, or randomly without regard to number.  Are there exactly 3 of each role?

More importantly, if 2 copies of role X are out, is the probability of a third being drawn less than the probability of a role which no one currently holds (as it should be with cards), or are the roles determined randomly as with dice, with a limit of how many and a re-roll if that limit would be exceeded?

3021
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Ranking the Expansions
« on: July 07, 2013, 01:45:39 pm »
 >:( Base Set
 ::) Promos
 :) Intrigue
 ??? Cornucopia
 :-* Seaside
 ;) Guilds
 :D Hinterlands
 :o Alchemy
 ;D Prosperity
 8) Dark Ages

3022
Goko Dominion Online / Re: Ratings Protection: A Question
« on: July 07, 2013, 04:01:17 am »
Dominion has a much greater random luck element than chess, go, tennis, etc.

I could be a complete idiot and once in a while get perfect luck against terrible luck from one of you experts.  In that case, it would tank their rating, which they'd have trouble getting back up (particularly with the daily point losses) while I would fritter away the points I earned losing to now-lower-ranked-but-should-be-higher opponents.

But more than that, I think it's just boredom with too-easy games.  I know I feel that way about things I'm actually good at.

3023
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Homage to the Best Card
« on: July 07, 2013, 03:53:41 am »
Just played a Seaside-only game with the gf, felt inspired.

3024
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Stickers or sleeves?
« on: July 06, 2013, 10:03:06 pm »
I vote sleeves because you can reuse them: if you tire of one fan card, you can make another!

Sitting down and sleeving thousands of cards isn't that bad, I've done it a few times.  I find it easier to sleeve as you go, though.  Like sleeve another kingdom each day, play a game with that kingdom, then the next day, pick 10 of the unsleeved ones (sleeve the randomizer cards to track it!).  You don't have to do it this way, but it makes it less tedious.  You get faster as you go pretty soon though.

The only downside to sleeves is the price, but I have no idea what custom stickers cost.

3025
Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: Coup PBF (Stars Monday, 2 spot left!)
« on: July 06, 2013, 02:07:21 pm »
Read some reviews on BGG, this looks interesting, I'll try it.

/in

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