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26

Mafia Game Threads / Re: BMIX: Conspiracy Theories, London Edition (Day 3)

« on: April 11, 2013, 06:55:53 pm »

I am male.  I think the OP of every mafia game from this point forward needs to have everyone's preferred pronoun gender.  I've been very cautious and used too many "they"s this game for my taste.

Not much to say over here other than I have been 100% honest this Day, if not the entire game (I'm not going to go back and make sure I didn't say something that was to my knowledge factually incorrect, but I don't remember intentionally lying).  I'm very leery of getting rid of CTs before Town though, just in case Town decides to hunt us down afterward, mainly because I don't trust several of the WW claims.  Now, Town does have a lot of power and seems to be styled like scum, so I guess it's possible there's no one else on their side, but many of the WW claims look like the CTs' WW claims to me.  The only ones I really know are Arch and eevee, and I'm nearly 100% on mcmc, but everyone else I'm somewhat suspecting of.  In addition, there's still an unclaimed kill on Axxle2 and a known WW lover pair, making it possible that even if the majority is currently WW that it might not stay that way for long.  Smooth acquiescence from the Town side of everything going on (unlike the CTs heavily resisting) makes me think they have something extra up their sleeves.  Of course, maybe it is because they were told that "not all monsters are monsters", but I feel that's a bit too convenient to add in this late.

I will be glad to vote for a CT once Town agrees to NK another CT.  For now my vote stays on mail-mi.

27

Mafia Game Threads / Re: BMIX: Conspiracy Theories, London Edition (Day 3)

« on: April 10, 2013, 10:06:57 pm »

CTs are 3rd party, Brownish?  They're Town in cop investigations, but that's the extent of their towniness outside of flip.  Mod says their red/green flip will depend on which is more interesting, but I'm wondering if that just depends on whether we're a WW or not (I would flip red, for instance).  None of them have claimed except me claiming who they are, but Axxle2 has died so you know at least the role is out there and have no information about it except that which I have provided to you.  And I could be lying completely because no one else in the CTs wants to stand up and confirm or deny it, but the mod could be lying too for all we know.

We probably have to kill off the entirety of the other factions in order to win.  CTs are the only one where is explicitly says this, but I'm thinking the initial setup was:

3 Town
5 CTs
8 WWs

Town has multiple power roles, including a NK, and know who each other is.  CTs have some slightly weak but potential powerful one-shots, but nothing to really influence the game besides their vote, and they know who each other are and have day chat.  WWs don't know who each other are for the most part and have a mixed bag of powers, some positive, some negative.  This looks fairly well balanced, but has no cause of death attached to Axxle2.  So I'm thinking one of the WWs is kinda a SK, maybe actually a Vampire but is monster-aligned.  (I'm thinking Jorbles died because he was a target of both night kills and had only one doctor save.)  This gives WWs a NK, but the killer doesn't have a clue who is on their team whereas Town at least knows 2 others they don't want to kill, and their kill might not even work against non-monsters.

What I think is fairly certain is that we need to lynch Town (Robz, liopoli, mail-mi).  They are the larger threat of the two to both CTs and WWs.  My vote is already on mail-mi, who has offered to be lynched.

28

Mafia Game Threads / Re: BMIX: Conspiracy Theories, London Edition (Day 3)

« on: April 10, 2013, 07:05:05 pm »

Of course I'm scum.  We're all scum, just for different reasons.

29

Innovation General Discussion / Re: Though Experiment: Fastest win

« on: April 09, 2013, 09:28:09 pm »

0.1: Open Clothing over Masonry
0.1: Open Wheel over Sailing

1.1: Use Clothing to meld Masonry, score one 1. (5 Age 1 gone, 9 left)
1.2: Share Wheel twice (1 Age 2 gone, 8 left),
2.1: Use Masonry to meld Oars, Archery, City States, and Tools for Monument, use Clothing to score four 2s, 9 total (4 Age 2 left)
2.2: Share Wheel twice, (6 Age 3 gone, 3 left)
3.1: Use Clothing to score four 3s (23 total), Meld any 2 or 3 that gives us at least 2 crowns and 3 castles.
3.2: Share Wheel (into Age 4), meld Construction
4.1: Achieve 1, 2
4.2: Meld Sailing, Share Sailing, results such that player 2 has <= castles than player 1 and Construction still on top.
5.1: Achieve 3, 4
5.2: Activate Construction to give Player 1 the win.

Best I got so far.

30

Innovation General Discussion / Re: Though Experiment: Fastest win

« on: April 09, 2013, 09:18:20 pm »

Yeah, I noticed that too.  I should be able to fix it somehow though, there's some slack at the end to make up for the fact that Sharing Wheel right away requires going second.

31

Innovation General Discussion / Re: Though Experiment: Fastest win

« on: April 09, 2013, 09:11:19 pm »

I was thinking very casually about this and thought about a 2 player game with one player spamming shared Wheel and the other player using Clothing to fill their score pile quickly.  Let's see where we can take this....

Sorry, this doesn't quite work yet, The Wheel player shouldn't go first.  I'm working on fixing it.

0.1: Open Wheel over Sailing
0.2: Open Metalworking over Clothing

1.1: Share Wheel (5+4 9 cards from Age 1 gone), player 2 draws at least City States.
1.2: Meld Clothing, use Clothing to Meld City States, score 2 1s (11 cards from Age 1 gone, 3 left)

2.1: Share Wheel twice, (8 cards from Age 2 gone) player 2 draws at least Construction and Mathematics.
2.2: Use Clothing to meld Construction, score one 2 and two 3s (10 total), use Clothing to meld Mathematics, score four 3s (22) and get Monument. (3 cards in Age 3 left)

3.1: Share Wheel (getting partially into Age 4 by the second time)
3.2: Achieve 1, Activate Construction for Empire.

4.1: Meld Sailing, Share Sailing
4.2: Achieve 2, 3.

5.1: Mope
5.2: Achieve 4.

Many of the cards are random, you can probably figure out which ones are needed and why.

32

Mafia Game Threads / Re: BMIX: Conspiracy Theories, London Edition (Day 3)

« on: April 09, 2013, 07:45:09 pm »

If the WWs do comprise a majority of the voting bloc, and I'm thinking that some of the claimants are lying (well, at least Axxle and jtotheoanh are), it's pretty important that they not kill any of themselves and instead go after people claiming not-WW.  The monster hunters feel closest to traditional scum in that they are informed as to the others of their identity and they have a night kill, but there's potentially other town on their side - and those other town are probably claiming WW here.  Outside of them, only Spiritbears hasn't claimed WW and has resisted the notion of it altogether.  Any WW claim from SB at this point would be out of self-preservation and not fidelity.  When SB flips you'll see that I'm not making the whole thing up, but there are more important things to deal with.

As to why I'm not actually a cult, consider that I needn't have said that I was recruited, but did so freely.  If I wanted to hide the existence of a cult among us, why would I claim to be recruited and not claim to have always been one?  Why would I announce the entirety of my cult and who recruited me?  Why would I make up a fantastic tale about my previous alignment when I could have just acquiesced to mcmc's lynch without further comment?  I stuck my neck out there to save him because I was fairly certain he was a fellow WW and we needed all the WW votes we could get since we didn't know who each other were outside of our own QTs.

As to why I didn't claim earlier despite having a ton of information, Jorbles flipping revealed to our Masonry that there actually were other WWs out there, and that we were not alone.  Before the flip I pretty much assumed we were the only WWs and that each other group was a different "scum" faction.  In such a scenario outing ourselves would be extremely risky, especially if unprovoked.  We only got a few posts to discuss what the heck was going on after Jorbles' flip before our night-talk QT was officially locked, and I really needed to follow the line of the others to see when exactly I would need to claim.  Arch being called out as a liar pretty much screamed out to me that I needed to, and I was thinking we'd have nearly everyone on our side.  If it was the wrong move, well, sorry.

I have a feeling this game is going to slide more into the territory of Diplomacy: convincing another group to kill someone who is a threat to both of you.  From my viewpoint, "Town" is more menacing to WWs and CTs than the latter are to each other because Town has a NK.  If the WWs and CTs concentrate on taking out the monster-hunters they'll assure one of the two of them (WW/CT) wins.  I can't really say for sure which side would win, as it depends on what the MHs do, but it seems obvious that the MHs are a threat to WWs and of course CTs need everyone else dead.  I may have outed all the CTs, but maybe that just means we can all play nice and not hide anything.

unvote
Vote: mail-mi (or potentially Robz or liopoli)

33

Mafia Game Threads / Re: BMIX: Conspiracy Theories, London Edition (Day 3)

« on: April 09, 2013, 01:11:16 pm »

My reasoning that CTs are the real scum is that they are the only ones who have the win condition "You win when only your faction is alive."

Heading back to work.

34

Mafia Game Threads / Re: BMIX: Conspiracy Theories, London Edition (Day 3)

« on: April 08, 2013, 10:26:06 pm »

Yeah I should probably not post at the rate of this thread and just leave it for tonight.  Making a lot of stupid typos that aren't making my case any better.  Just lynching off CTs is fine, but I'm pretty convinced ashersky is SK. 

35

Mafia Game Threads / Re: BMIX: Conspiracy Theories, London Edition (Day 3)

« on: April 08, 2013, 10:23:40 pm »

Hmm, if ashersky keeps vengeful and the NK, maybe we do need to keep him alive so that the CTs can't recruit them.  I don't think we can afford lynching ashersky over and over again if they take one of us with them.

unvote
vote: spiritbears

I already put out there everything I know.  If I die to NK, you won't really have lost anything but you will have gained information that I am a CT.

By "tonight" I meant toDay.  It's physically night here and I'm tired, sorry.

36

Mafia Game Threads / Re: BMIX: Conspiracy Theories, London Edition (Day 3)

« on: April 08, 2013, 10:17:15 pm »

That is, I think it is in the WWs best interest to lynch ashersky tonight.  Even though they aren't CT, the CT are harmless and we can lynch them all later.  Even if they recruit ashersky after we lynch them, they'll have 4.  We have eevee, Arch, Dsell, me, and mail-mi at least after askersky kills off mcmc and morgrim.

Yes, the WWs being able to recruit a CT is massively imbalanced once the WW group with the CT realizes they can claim, but this setup is so bastard that I don't think Arch expected us to claim this early.  And I wasn't going to until I needed to in case there was even more setup weirdness, but I was pretty much forced to.

37

Mafia Game Threads / Re: BMIX: Conspiracy Theories, London Edition (Day 3)

« on: April 08, 2013, 10:07:44 pm »

I can't explain Morgrim's resurrection.  I had no way of knowing that CTs were actual scum on Day 2; I thought they were just another 3rd party and there was actual Mafia to hunt.  I didn't think WWs were most of the Town on Day 2; I knew we were town-like with our win condition, but only as things progressed did it become clearer.  Also, there's almost certainly an SK, who I think is Ashersky, and I'm probably going to die at night if we don't kill them.

38

Mafia Game Threads / Re: BMIX: Conspiracy Theories, London Edition (Day 3)

« on: April 08, 2013, 09:58:10 pm »

And by "my own faction" I mean the WWs.  The CTs are nice people and all, but I can win without them and it should be very easy now.

39

Mafia Game Threads / Re: BMIX: Conspiracy Theories, London Edition (Day 3)

« on: April 08, 2013, 09:57:16 pm »

That is, I had no clue if it was safe to reveal as WW.  As to "being right", I meant my own faction being "town" due to what our win condition was.

40

Mafia Game Threads / Re: BMIX: Conspiracy Theories, London Edition (Day 3)

« on: April 08, 2013, 09:55:36 pm »

CTs started as Me, Axxle, Axxle2, spiritbears, jotheonah.  I was recruited by Archetype night 1, which led me to some serious setup speculation.  Confirm eevee is in our QT.  The CTs have a one-shot revive and recruit, and a one-shot reincarnate when there's two of them left.  The reincarnate is the same thing as revive and recruit it sounds like, but it suicides the the person using it.  Their win condition is to get rid of everyone else.  That's why they're scum, even if they appear as town.  Not sure why Arch keeps lying, but they don't have a NK until they're down to one person.

I tried as much as I could to push the alternate setup hypotheses as a pseudo-breadcrumb that my role would end up being very odd.  I didn't want to claim immediately because I had no clue if I was right.  Once so many people were out as wolves and someone actively attacked a person I was in a QT with due to a lie (which I think was a bad move, but what's done is done) I felt there was a compelling enough reason to come out and wouldn't get immediately lynched as a WW.

41

Mafia Game Threads / Re: BMIX: Conspiracy Theories, London Edition (Day 3)

« on: April 08, 2013, 09:47:47 pm »

I don't know for sure, but I'm very much leaning towards ashersky as SK, so that's why my vote is where it is.  That's the one person I'm not sure of most and the most dangerous role to get rid of since I can hear all the CTs speak (we/they have day chat), and if they kill me off I'll be revealed as a CT.

42

Mafia Game Threads / Re: BMIX: Conspiracy Theories, London Edition (Day 3)

« on: April 08, 2013, 09:42:05 pm »

And they also can recruit someone that has died.  Sorta twice, once is any night on anyone dead, once requires 2 of them to be left and it suicides the person recruiting.

43

Mafia Game Threads / Re: BMIX: Conspiracy Theories, London Edition (Day 3)

« on: April 08, 2013, 09:38:26 pm »

Archetype was lying so I didn't have to full claim yet.  But now I do.  I actually know that the real scum are spiritbears, Axxle, and jotheonah.  Axxle2 was also one of them, and they are called Conspiracy Theorists.  I know this because I am also one of them, but was recruited by Archetype to be a WW.

44

Mafia Game Threads / Re: BMIX: Conspiracy Theories, London Edition (Day 3)

« on: April 08, 2013, 09:20:13 pm »

I do believe Arch is the most likely to be SK (or to be more precise, the least likely of the WW claims to be WW. His claim was the most... Opportunistic).

That's the plan.

Did you misread Arch as ash?

45

Mafia Game Threads / Re: BMIX: Conspiracy Theories, London Edition (Day 3)

« on: April 08, 2013, 09:19:53 pm »

Arch is almost certainly not SK.  I have QT with Arch (see Arch responding to my 49 WD = Werewolves Den) that is supposed to be closed during the day, but we each got 3 posts during this day after last night was cut short.  We had them used up, so he had to respond to my last comment in the game thread.

46

Mafia Game Threads / Re: BMIX: Conspiracy Theories, London Edition (Day 3)

« on: April 08, 2013, 09:16:57 pm »

If you're a WW, why did you threaten to kill 3 of us, which would go completely against your win condition.

Plus, it is called a VENGEkill for a reason.  If my own teammates turn on me, and I'm wrong about mcmc, I can exact vengeance.

Um, so your win condition changes after you get lynched?  Why else would you intentionally kill 2 people on your own team if you could have just killed one?

47

Mafia Game Threads / Re: BMIX: Conspiracy Theories, London Edition (Day 3)

« on: April 08, 2013, 08:03:04 pm »

Town members are threats to WWs

How do you know this?  I wasn't told that.  I think it's in your "Town" role PM, and you're the SK that's the source of the NKs.

vote: ashersky

48

Mafia Game Threads / Re: BMIX: Conspiracy Theories, London Edition (Day 3)

« on: April 08, 2013, 08:01:14 pm »

Are you a WW too?  I mean, sounds like you are a defender of them here...

I already soft-claimed it enough.  I have the same win condition as mcmc.  The threats to the WWs are the ones that we care about, not the WWs.

49

Mafia Game Threads / Re: BMIX: Conspiracy Theories, London Edition (Day 3)

« on: April 08, 2013, 07:50:52 pm »

eta: Bon Jovi lyrics are to emphasize the fact that the WWs are merely wanting to live while they're alive, which means hiding as best they can or until the Town comes to realize that they aren't threats.

50

Mafia Game Threads / Re: BMIX: Conspiracy Theories, London Edition (Day 3)

« on: April 08, 2013, 07:48:51 pm »

The text of the PM said that somebody had gotten to Jorbles before I did, and that there appeared to be a heavy amount of cosmetics on him - that underneath the horrible looks was a normal - although quite grotesque - human being.

Now, my PM did NOT say "Town", but I took it to mean that he wasn't what the opening flavor stated.

I think it means that deep down the WWs are merely weird looking people, and are only hiding from Town because the Town will kill them.  That is, WWs are not scum, even if they have a red role name.  I would really like mcmc to make an honest full claim verifying that, not being afraid to tell us that he's a WW.  I certainly won't lynch him for it.

And Galz, your entire role might be to provide that slight bit of information.  That is, if you target someone who dies during the night, you will discover exactly what you discovered instead of saving them.  So you're kinda like a Doctor in that you'll want to target someone who dies....