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4226
Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« on: June 25, 2013, 07:50:47 pm »
I want to get scumhunting done, but I know I'm not good at it... right now, I'm waiting on mail-mi and chairs.  Although, this seems to be normal mai-mi: scummy and silent...

Well, I've mostly been quiet as I don't really have anything to add to the discussion and everything I've added so far I've been told is bad form.

I'm going to go ahead and item claim, though, since the earlier subtle reference was missed and I think my item's pretty darn innocuous: I have paper.

4227
Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« on: June 25, 2013, 07:21:45 pm »
If nk is scum, he's being awfully calm about it.  Conversely, if "good scum" doesn't panic, and Robz plays good scum, then this is (slightly) town!Robz, because he seems alarmed.  But then we get into my new favorite acronym, WIFOM  :o

4228
Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« on: June 25, 2013, 01:12:43 pm »
I wonder if we have a doc and/or cop.  If we could reasonably expect a doc and could confirm a cop somehow, we'd at least have a good investigation setup rolling, though the concern would still exist that somebody could kill the doc or have some sort of "even through doctor" power, I guess.

4229
Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« on: June 25, 2013, 12:17:15 pm »
I'm neutral on the no-lynch concept in this game, and here's why:

Normally it appears that lynching is (overall) the correct option.

Pros to no-lynch in this game happen to include the paper-pushing option to invent cool stuff that gives us additional roles - and a dead townie means we can't get his piece of a potentially cool item (I'm willing to accept the loss for dead scum).

Pros to lynching in this game, aside from the obvious "killing scum is good" option, are that we don't actually know what the scum wincons are, and it's entirely possible that inventing X, Y, or Z item are among them, so more items still around offers them more opportunity to snag those items (either via power roles [potentially] or via their town face).

4230
Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« on: June 25, 2013, 11:11:51 am »
re: theorel's idea, what if we reverse it.  I say an item I have that is not obviously a great role (I don't say penicillin or shiny badge!) and if you think your item would be a good match, you share it with me.

July 3rd is fine.

No lynch is a bad plan, but could be an ok outcome if we get to deadline and are nowhere.  But does that ever happen?

I'm intrigued by this concept, given that you've tempered it with "only non-obviously-good items here".

Thanks for all the no lynch info. I would agree that now probably isn't the time. And thanks form coming in eevee. Unvote. Now, with claiming what we have to give: then the other person would have to say they wanted it. I feel like this could be harder for scum to lie, but then they would also know who is likely to have shiny new PR's and then they'd just get NK'd...

I think the concept here is that few people claim what they have to give, just perhaps stating one of the things in their inventory (not necessarily their starting item, since we've all had a wonderful trade round already :D) that they don't (yet) see a use for, and then see what people give that person and try to make cool stuff out of it.

4231
Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« on: June 25, 2013, 01:57:08 am »
FWIW, Ahoppy, I asked about a no-lynch in my other game (albeit that one's AFAIK basically vanilla Mafia) and I may be our D1 lynch for it.  Apparently if you've an odd number of players, it's (usually) a bad idea.

4232
Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« on: June 25, 2013, 01:54:13 am »
I thought I was pretty active, though I guess my scumhunt-fu is weak :(

4233
Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« on: June 25, 2013, 12:09:49 am »
What's "WIFOM" or "WIFIM"?

4234
Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« on: June 24, 2013, 08:38:24 pm »
To be fair, one fun thing we can (not necessarily should) do is discuss our flavor, which if I understand correctly does not give away our roles (e.g. is Nikola Tesla scum? is it one of the Wright brothers, perhaps? What can I get out of knowing Galileo is in our game?), it does give us perhaps some more information, if done well.  However, as with all information, how much will this benefit town vs how much will this benefit scum is going to be tricky, because (again, if I understand correctly) the scum win conditions may not entirely line up with traditional fare.

Where did you get those names?

Random famous duders from history.

4235
Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« on: June 24, 2013, 06:38:55 pm »
LOL, and I see Twistedarcher mentioned the downside to flavor claim while I was writing  :P

4236
Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« on: June 24, 2013, 06:37:44 pm »
To be fair, one fun thing we can (not necessarily should) do is discuss our flavor, which if I understand correctly does not give away our roles (e.g. is Nikola Tesla scum? is it one of the Wright brothers, perhaps? What can I get out of knowing Galileo is in our game?), it does give us perhaps some more information, if done well.  However, as with all information, how much will this benefit town vs how much will this benefit scum is going to be tricky, because (again, if I understand correctly) the scum win conditions may not entirely line up with traditional fare.

4237
Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« on: June 24, 2013, 05:32:49 pm »
With threads like this, I'm going to have to start a bible on you guys to refer to in future games  :P

4238
Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« on: June 24, 2013, 05:30:37 pm »
Vote Count 1.6

mail-mi (2): yuma, liopoil
chairs (2): Robz888, nkirbit
Robz888 (1): chairs
yuma (1): Voltaire
nkirbit (1): mail-mi
yuma (1): spiritbears

Not voting: mcmcsalot

With 9 players alive, it takes 5 to lynch
Deadline is 10:30pm forum time on Wednesday, July 3rd


So is that 2 votes for Yuma, then?  I want to make sure (since I put somebody under the crosshairs earlier) that I understand where we are on votes.

4239
Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« on: June 24, 2013, 04:49:16 pm »
Yuma, I think I agree that you seem MORE contrarian so far than usual. Their suspicion of you doesn't surprise me at all.

I would have to be really overwhelmingly convinced of your guilt to risk losing town you on Day 1, though. Maybe that's not fair to other players, but well, I want to win.

here's the implicit "I'm definitely town guys" post I mentioned.  I understand that we're all claiming town by default, but from a psychological standpoint if I find a way to say "I'm town" without SAYING "I'm town" and then you agree with the main thrust of my post, it will make you more likely later to think I'm more town-y... shouldn't it?  This is the reason I mention the implicit town claim.

I'm not saying you couldn't be town!Robz, but if I gather correctly we're supposed to be discussing our opinions (in hopes that scum!??? will make an argument that won't pass the sniff test, either now or later), and my opinion right now is that you are at least slightly on the scum!Robz side of things.  I've not played prior games with you, so I'm strictly basing this on how you've presented yourself this thread.

--

Unrelated to town/scum!Robz:

I see the argument you're making in your post, nkirbit.  I hadn't heavily considered a scum!mail-mi, but you make a good point.

4240
Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« on: June 24, 2013, 04:40:34 pm »
vote: shraeye

Kind of RVS (He's running the other game I'm playing).

4241
Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« on: June 24, 2013, 04:31:12 pm »
i'll try to elaborate in a post a little later (snagging a quick "my thoughts in 30 seconds or less" moment) but right now the past few pages have made me trend towards scum!yuma (slightly, not as strongly as others seem to think, primarily due to town claim but also due to long argument with sb), scum!Robz (implicit town claim), and scum!sb (argument with yuma could also benefit scum!sb if it makes yuma look more scummy to the point he gets D1 lynched, especially if he's as valuable a player as town!Robz (assuming it's town!Robz and not scum!Robz) seems to believe).

I realize that's pretty short, and I know you guys scumhunt better than I do, but I don't think it's to my (or anybody else's) benefit to just sit under the table.

4242
Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« on: June 24, 2013, 01:59:26 pm »
After reading the latest posts..



I'm glad I decided to join the forum and play, this is the kind of mind game type stuff I usually only get out of internet spaceship politics.

4243
Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« on: June 24, 2013, 11:46:21 am »
Our deadline is 10:30pm forum time on Monday, July 3rd I believe.

I'm not liking chairs vote on Robz888, it does seem like OMGUS. that doesn't make him scum though. I see what you're talking about SB. So he mentions it again. Why would he want to emphasize it? It seems like he's more saying "I'm a bit disoriented, because this forum mafia thing is weird, I dunno what to do because we aren't no lynching". I don't think he is filling up his paragraph to make it look like he's saying more than he is. chairs has contributed a fair enough amount, he doesn't need to do that. The only claim that he's scummy that I could see making on that is that maybe he's trying to say "Sorry guys, I'm new to this and have no clue what to do, so if I'm do something stupid don't assume I'm scum," but really, I just think he really is just getting used to the way it works around here.

It seems I do not have any support on mcmc. I'm willing to let that go for now, no point pushing something that won't happen. I will Vote: Mail-mi instead. like other's have mentioned, this post:

Well that's too quick of a wagon for him to be scum. Although that was a suspicious post.
Is super-convenient for scum. In this post, he says very little, not drawing attention to himself (well, that didn't work out), he takes the stance of defending someone which will look good once he flips town (if he's town), and at the same time, fans the flames for the wagon to continue. He has said that this was just his thought process, however, at the end of this, he does not come to a conclusion. As of this post, he can go either way on mcmc without being accused of flipping. In other words, he's hedging.

PPE: 4

My confusion here is that July 3rd isn't a Monday, unless my calendar is wrong.

4244
Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« on: June 24, 2013, 09:26:04 am »
Well, whining about it doesn't help I guess.

The post right before the one I'm quoting here is whining about it a bit, then he posts this, why bother to grump grump nevermind in two posts?  There was an argument about whether or not it was an overreaction on purpose (because of potential re-scumming) post-reset, and it's continued to weigh on my mind that the lady doth protest too much.

4245
Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« on: June 24, 2013, 09:21:53 am »
chairs, why did you vote for robz?

SB, I must have missed where he said that, can you show it to me?

Robz, I'm not covering for him, I just don't find that particular comment of his particularly incriminating. All he did was put mcmc at L-1.

This time I'll pull in quotes, though if we clarify that we still have a week the argument could be made for a change of mind.

Is no one else on chairs? Do people disagree with me? He made a really scummy move. Remember that this is his first game, where if he is scum, he is likely to make accidental scum moves.
Nope, don't really think that was too scummy of a move. you say his mcmc vote was "wagoning" and "dangerous". I assume you mean in regard to him putting mcmc at L-1. I think it reasonable that he didn't realize he was putting him at L-1, or that he didn't think that was too big of a deal. slightly scummy at best.

Why are you covering for him?

I'd add more but the topic summary doesn't let me go back further (I can try to find additional posts and add them in a fresh post).  He seems to be beating the chairs drum the most, and I figure either he legitimately thinks I'm scum or he's pushing for a mislynch (which would suggest scum).  I suppose the third possibility is that he's looking for reactions from the proverbial peanut gallery, in which case he got one, at least from me.  I hope it helps.  I also thought we were at ~24 hours to D1 end and as I"m at work there's a real possibility I wouldn't necessarily get the opportunity to post for the rest of the day (I should really be working instead of typing, etc etc) so I wanted to ensure I'd cast a lot towards someone I thought at least seemed scummy.

4246
Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« on: June 24, 2013, 08:57:22 am »
Err, actually, can I get some clarification on when voting period is over?  I thought today was it, but I went back to be sure and it says Monday July 3rd... But that's a Wednesday.

4247
Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« on: June 24, 2013, 08:54:06 am »
Vote: Robz888

4248
Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« on: June 23, 2013, 04:16:34 pm »
Wow, lots of talk :)  And a vote for me  :-\

I suppose I do look awfully scummy, don't I?

To attempt to (quickly) address the 2-3 points I think I read re: myself...

1) I unvoted because I'm not used to the vote/unvote concept being binding, as when I have played Mafia IRL we discuss and no vote/unvote mechanism exists, so "vote: x" in my IRL equivalents happens during discussion but is not a binding vote (a key difference that lets you be as "yeah it's this guy and he's who I'd vote for" during my IRL experience that is not the case here) as we usually just have 5-10 minutes discussion and then "turn in a slip with your vote".  The N-1 situation made that more clear for me.

2) I hope 1 explains my bandwagon sufficiently; if not, I don't have much else to say in that regard.

3) I'll try to take advantage of the fact that I can go back to everything you guys say instead of just "Yeah that seems wrong" which is how I'm used to playing.  Forum mafia is awfully :science: compared to the relatively short games I'm used to.

4249
Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« on: June 22, 2013, 11:43:50 pm »
Why do you think Yuma is scummy?

On further inspection, the scummy post from Yuma was in the prior game.  Thanks for asking for the clarification!

Vote: mcmcsalot

which post was it from the previous game?

Are we allowed to ask things about that? I can't think of a reason why not... but don't want to go into forbidden territory unawares...

TBH I don't recall, when I went back to find it and noticed I hadn't found it by beginning of fresh copy, I scrapped looking for it again and withdrew my statement.

4250
Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« on: June 22, 2013, 04:50:33 pm »
Yeah, geez, unvote for now.

Chairs throwing out the fact that he has scumreads on half the other players makes his scumreads kind of meaningless at this point.

Why exactly do you find mcmc scummy, chairs?  And lio, and SB?  You didn't really provide reasons for any of your reads.

I'm going to try to make sure I don't miss any quotes this time, and I'll try to detail my suspicions.

First off: mcmcsalot seems to be making a VT claim in what I had quoted; as there's no reason to make a VT claim ever, it seems reasonable to believe that he is more likely than not scum.  As this is Day 1, my normal strategy (with folks that I play with IRL) is to head towards a no-lynch, but as I've been advised this is a terrible idea in practice by folks who have played this game more often than myself, I felt that as the one who the argument could be made most strongly for, he'd have my vote.  That being said, forum Mafia's a bit of a different beast than I'm used to (we're making decisions in days, rather than minutes) so I can see the justification/argument made for an Unvote until we can attempt to gather more evidence.

Second: spiritbears.  His liopoil voting seems... odd.. and his posting in general somewhat erratic (which in my IRL games has usually suggested someone trying to sound random enough that any potential scumpost comes off as just random).  He's also potentially covering for mc's VT claim - see:
Quote from: spiritbears
I think some people here are trying extra hard to read scum into mc's post. If you think that was a Vt claim, you are sadly mistaken imo.  And why the hell would his first post be exactly like his first post before the reset?!?!  No one should b making the same post over again....that would just be scummy
.  That being said, the arguments I have against spiritbears are softer ones than the argument that a soft VT claim implies scum, so I rated him lower than mc.

Third: liopoil.  It kind of feels like the below quote is to the detriment of our game, if RVS was useful in the first iteration, why wouldn't it be useful in the fresh game?  We've lost effectively all knowledge gained from the prior game other than perhaps something to compare posters to, so I don't understand why a little RVS wouldn't simply garner us additional information.  That said, this is (in my mind) still a very weak argument, but made him less neutral in my head compared to those who I didn't list.
Quote from: liopoil
I feel like the incident was handled well. You can't just kick out Yuma for accidentally seeing whatever he saw. It sucks for Spiritbears and Robz888 because they lost a chance to be scum (if they're town this time), and any PRs too. But reset was really the only option I can think of besides Yuma being replaced. And how would shraeye explain the need for Yuma to be replaced? He couldn't say that he found out someone's alignment, because that means that he was town (scum already know everyone's alignment).

anyway, it's good to be back, that lull was boooooring!

I'm fine with skipping RVS, we did that last time, no need to do it again.

Does that clear up my position at all?

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