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4201
Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« on: June 26, 2013, 11:49:33 am »
Your timeline Yuma is much more helpful. I see both nk and robz as conning off bad from it...I'm reconsidering nk. Robz I still see as opportunistic scum.

Yes I thought it might be helpful to put things into context. I do agree that Robz has some of the traits that I see in nkribit, but I think my belief is that nkirbit is even more so, whereas Robz I think could be considered more... not coincidental, but... I can't think of the word... more circumstantial? (that isn't the word either, but I can't remember what it is... ugh... it has been far too long since my last humanities class...)

circumspect?

Also, yuma, thank you for the post on nkirbit.  You make a very interesting and fairly compelling argument.  I'm not sold on switching my vote, but you've given me something to think about for sure.

4202
Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« on: June 26, 2013, 09:11:50 am »
Anyways, scumhunting...involves reads...means I need to figure out what I think of these players.  I doubt I think anything right now, but I need to try to keep people straight, and this is still the best way I've found to do that day1.  It puts my mind in the game and helps me keep track of what I think of people, making me think of them at all.  Hopefully I can start sorting all of you out.  This is a long post, so I expect shraeye and raerae to skip it :P

1. ashersky: active, provocative.  These are general ashersky properties based on what I've seen.  null read.  (scumScore...null=25)

2. Eevee: Very little activity.  Not exactly normal for Eevee, but I think he's been posting somewhat less lately?  Or maybe he posts less in non-normal games.  I dunno, I feel like I've noticed a lot of "not much posting" regarding Eevee in my skimming.  So I'm going to call this basically null for now, but might revise if someone tells me that my thought there is incorrect. scumScore=26

3. xeiron: he's posted like twice (3 times now)?  I've never played with him as far as I remember.  Seems reasonably concerned about claiming...but ultimately I've got nothing.  scumScore=25 (Oh, his name is typoed in the opening post btw)

4. raerae: Seems like typical raerae (i.e. abrasive, joking).  I'm not sure I've seen raerae as scum (in terms of when skimming other games...I know I've never played with scum raerae).  So I guess I lean town here.  scumScore=20

5. mail-mi: First player I've not really noticed.  I know he's posted some stuff, and has received some comments.  I think there was a back and forth with ashersky last night regarding how he voted for ashersky?  I'll try to pay more attention to him.  scumScore=25

6. TwistedArcher: Has posted a lot.  Not sure if "appeasing" is a scum-trait when applied to twistedarcher.  I know it isn't when applied to me, and I know that I have a tendency to appease (maybe I only try to appease and actually don't? Robz always thinks I'm scum because I ask permission to do things like vote though...).  He's gotten a lot of heat, which generally makes me lean town.  scumScore=20

7. chairs: He claimed paper, so we know he beats rock, and loses to scissors.  He's a green card that helps with splaying (thematically because he helps pass down information from one age to the next).  Early uninformed claims are usually town (though they are also usually mislynched).  This wasn't quite as early, although it was broadcast early.  Still likely to be town.  scumScore=20.

8. shraeye: I can't pretend that I can read shraeye.  I've only really pegged him as scum once, and he was of course town that time (and IC to boot).  He seems to have played a similar gambit to ashersky, except he decided to build an actual weak/day-1 case on TA?  (unlike ashersky who did it to provoke).  Um...I'm going to play it safe and lean scum here.  scumScore=28

9. Ahoppy: Second player I haven't noticed.  This time I've got absolutely nothing.  I don't know if he's been posting little, or if I don't know him and so don't have a voice to associate with him.  Can't remember other comments regarding him.  No knowledge of player means slight scum right?  (even if it's entirely my own fault) scumScore=27

10. EFHW: One of the three players in conversation last night (with TA and ashersky).  I think she's the one taking the opposite viewpoint to me regarding claiming (i.e. that we should claim items we have rather than items we need).  ashersky thinks she sounds like when she's scum.  Eevee thinks that she sounds like Efhw.  I don't know her meta.  I've got nothing really.  scumScore=25

11. spiritbears: One of these days spiritbears is going to be scum, and we'll all be surprised.  I don't know enough about how spiritbears plays mafia, except that everyone always thinks he's town.  I can see why...I think he's town too.  And I can't even figure out why (I don't remember anything he's actually said, just that he seems like town.)  scumScore=20

12. theorel: Yep, I'm here.  I'm the most pro-town player around, even if I always lose anyways.  At least people don't usually suspect me until around day3.  scumScore=0.

13. nkirbit: I was about to say I remembered nothing, then I remembered...he called himself out for underposting, after someone didn't call him out for it (ahoppy maybe?  I'll have to check).  I think this might actually be a scum trait based on experience (I remember Galzria calling himself out in DS9.  I think other scum has done it in the past).  Although it seems like a townie thing to do, maybe it's one of those town things that scum does to look townie?  Meh, the better townie response would be to post more.  Well, I'm not going to build a case around it, but I'll lean scum here for now, scumScore=28.

I like this type of post.  When/if I find time today, I'll try to share my opinions in a similar vein.

4203
Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« on: June 25, 2013, 08:13:01 pm »
Also in the post you just made, ashersky, you mention knowing about raerae's playstyle.  I'm having to pick up playstyle clues effectively from nil which affects my decisionmaking, certainly.

4204
Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« on: June 25, 2013, 08:11:03 pm »
I want to get scumhunting done, but I know I'm not good at it... right now, I'm waiting on mail-mi and chairs.  Although, this seems to be normal mai-mi: scummy and silent...

Well, I've mostly been quiet as I don't really have anything to add to the discussion and everything I've added so far I've been told is bad form.

I'm going to go ahead and item claim, though, since the earlier subtle reference was missed and I think my item's pretty darn innocuous: I have paper.

See, this just opens up more questions than anything.  Did you start with the paper?  Receive the paper?  We can infer that you might be Cai Lun or Gutenberg now.

Certainly it does open up questions, but I simply don't see where else we can go for scumhunting other than to get at least some relevant information out there  (granted, it seems most of you are playing at a lot higher level of WIFOM than I am, so perhaps I'm just missing it).  I don't know where we draw the line on what questions we do/don't answer here.

4205
Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« on: June 25, 2013, 08:04:23 pm »
I'm neutral on the no-lynch concept in this game, and here's why:

Normally it appears that lynching is (overall) the correct option.

Pros to no-lynch in this game happen to include the paper-pushing option to invent cool stuff that gives us additional roles - and a dead townie means we can't get his piece of a potentially cool item (I'm willing to accept the loss for dead scum).

Pros to lynching in this game, aside from the obvious "killing scum is good" option, are that we don't actually know what the scum wincons are, and it's entirely possible that inventing X, Y, or Z item are among them, so more items still around offers them more opportunity to snag those items (either via power roles [potentially] or via their town face).

What is "paper-pushing"?

This subtle reference that was "missed"?

Fair enough, I missed your post.

4206
Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« on: June 25, 2013, 07:50:47 pm »
I want to get scumhunting done, but I know I'm not good at it... right now, I'm waiting on mail-mi and chairs.  Although, this seems to be normal mai-mi: scummy and silent...

Well, I've mostly been quiet as I don't really have anything to add to the discussion and everything I've added so far I've been told is bad form.

I'm going to go ahead and item claim, though, since the earlier subtle reference was missed and I think my item's pretty darn innocuous: I have paper.

4207
Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« on: June 25, 2013, 07:21:45 pm »
If nk is scum, he's being awfully calm about it.  Conversely, if "good scum" doesn't panic, and Robz plays good scum, then this is (slightly) town!Robz, because he seems alarmed.  But then we get into my new favorite acronym, WIFOM  :o

4208
Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« on: June 25, 2013, 01:12:43 pm »
I wonder if we have a doc and/or cop.  If we could reasonably expect a doc and could confirm a cop somehow, we'd at least have a good investigation setup rolling, though the concern would still exist that somebody could kill the doc or have some sort of "even through doctor" power, I guess.

4209
Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« on: June 25, 2013, 12:17:15 pm »
I'm neutral on the no-lynch concept in this game, and here's why:

Normally it appears that lynching is (overall) the correct option.

Pros to no-lynch in this game happen to include the paper-pushing option to invent cool stuff that gives us additional roles - and a dead townie means we can't get his piece of a potentially cool item (I'm willing to accept the loss for dead scum).

Pros to lynching in this game, aside from the obvious "killing scum is good" option, are that we don't actually know what the scum wincons are, and it's entirely possible that inventing X, Y, or Z item are among them, so more items still around offers them more opportunity to snag those items (either via power roles [potentially] or via their town face).

4210
Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« on: June 25, 2013, 11:11:51 am »
re: theorel's idea, what if we reverse it.  I say an item I have that is not obviously a great role (I don't say penicillin or shiny badge!) and if you think your item would be a good match, you share it with me.

July 3rd is fine.

No lynch is a bad plan, but could be an ok outcome if we get to deadline and are nowhere.  But does that ever happen?

I'm intrigued by this concept, given that you've tempered it with "only non-obviously-good items here".

Thanks for all the no lynch info. I would agree that now probably isn't the time. And thanks form coming in eevee. Unvote. Now, with claiming what we have to give: then the other person would have to say they wanted it. I feel like this could be harder for scum to lie, but then they would also know who is likely to have shiny new PR's and then they'd just get NK'd...

I think the concept here is that few people claim what they have to give, just perhaps stating one of the things in their inventory (not necessarily their starting item, since we've all had a wonderful trade round already :D) that they don't (yet) see a use for, and then see what people give that person and try to make cool stuff out of it.

4211
Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« on: June 25, 2013, 01:57:08 am »
FWIW, Ahoppy, I asked about a no-lynch in my other game (albeit that one's AFAIK basically vanilla Mafia) and I may be our D1 lynch for it.  Apparently if you've an odd number of players, it's (usually) a bad idea.

4212
Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« on: June 25, 2013, 01:54:13 am »
I thought I was pretty active, though I guess my scumhunt-fu is weak :(

4213
Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« on: June 25, 2013, 12:09:49 am »
What's "WIFOM" or "WIFIM"?

4214
Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« on: June 24, 2013, 08:38:24 pm »
To be fair, one fun thing we can (not necessarily should) do is discuss our flavor, which if I understand correctly does not give away our roles (e.g. is Nikola Tesla scum? is it one of the Wright brothers, perhaps? What can I get out of knowing Galileo is in our game?), it does give us perhaps some more information, if done well.  However, as with all information, how much will this benefit town vs how much will this benefit scum is going to be tricky, because (again, if I understand correctly) the scum win conditions may not entirely line up with traditional fare.

Where did you get those names?

Random famous duders from history.

4215
Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« on: June 24, 2013, 06:38:55 pm »
LOL, and I see Twistedarcher mentioned the downside to flavor claim while I was writing  :P

4216
Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« on: June 24, 2013, 06:37:44 pm »
To be fair, one fun thing we can (not necessarily should) do is discuss our flavor, which if I understand correctly does not give away our roles (e.g. is Nikola Tesla scum? is it one of the Wright brothers, perhaps? What can I get out of knowing Galileo is in our game?), it does give us perhaps some more information, if done well.  However, as with all information, how much will this benefit town vs how much will this benefit scum is going to be tricky, because (again, if I understand correctly) the scum win conditions may not entirely line up with traditional fare.

4217
Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« on: June 24, 2013, 05:32:49 pm »
With threads like this, I'm going to have to start a bible on you guys to refer to in future games  :P

4218
Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« on: June 24, 2013, 05:30:37 pm »
Vote Count 1.6

mail-mi (2): yuma, liopoil
chairs (2): Robz888, nkirbit
Robz888 (1): chairs
yuma (1): Voltaire
nkirbit (1): mail-mi
yuma (1): spiritbears

Not voting: mcmcsalot

With 9 players alive, it takes 5 to lynch
Deadline is 10:30pm forum time on Wednesday, July 3rd


So is that 2 votes for Yuma, then?  I want to make sure (since I put somebody under the crosshairs earlier) that I understand where we are on votes.

4219
Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« on: June 24, 2013, 04:49:16 pm »
Yuma, I think I agree that you seem MORE contrarian so far than usual. Their suspicion of you doesn't surprise me at all.

I would have to be really overwhelmingly convinced of your guilt to risk losing town you on Day 1, though. Maybe that's not fair to other players, but well, I want to win.

here's the implicit "I'm definitely town guys" post I mentioned.  I understand that we're all claiming town by default, but from a psychological standpoint if I find a way to say "I'm town" without SAYING "I'm town" and then you agree with the main thrust of my post, it will make you more likely later to think I'm more town-y... shouldn't it?  This is the reason I mention the implicit town claim.

I'm not saying you couldn't be town!Robz, but if I gather correctly we're supposed to be discussing our opinions (in hopes that scum!??? will make an argument that won't pass the sniff test, either now or later), and my opinion right now is that you are at least slightly on the scum!Robz side of things.  I've not played prior games with you, so I'm strictly basing this on how you've presented yourself this thread.

--

Unrelated to town/scum!Robz:

I see the argument you're making in your post, nkirbit.  I hadn't heavily considered a scum!mail-mi, but you make a good point.

4220
Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« on: June 24, 2013, 04:40:34 pm »
vote: shraeye

Kind of RVS (He's running the other game I'm playing).

4221
Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« on: June 24, 2013, 04:31:12 pm »
i'll try to elaborate in a post a little later (snagging a quick "my thoughts in 30 seconds or less" moment) but right now the past few pages have made me trend towards scum!yuma (slightly, not as strongly as others seem to think, primarily due to town claim but also due to long argument with sb), scum!Robz (implicit town claim), and scum!sb (argument with yuma could also benefit scum!sb if it makes yuma look more scummy to the point he gets D1 lynched, especially if he's as valuable a player as town!Robz (assuming it's town!Robz and not scum!Robz) seems to believe).

I realize that's pretty short, and I know you guys scumhunt better than I do, but I don't think it's to my (or anybody else's) benefit to just sit under the table.

4222
Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« on: June 24, 2013, 01:59:26 pm »
After reading the latest posts..



I'm glad I decided to join the forum and play, this is the kind of mind game type stuff I usually only get out of internet spaceship politics.

4223
Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« on: June 24, 2013, 11:46:21 am »
Our deadline is 10:30pm forum time on Monday, July 3rd I believe.

I'm not liking chairs vote on Robz888, it does seem like OMGUS. that doesn't make him scum though. I see what you're talking about SB. So he mentions it again. Why would he want to emphasize it? It seems like he's more saying "I'm a bit disoriented, because this forum mafia thing is weird, I dunno what to do because we aren't no lynching". I don't think he is filling up his paragraph to make it look like he's saying more than he is. chairs has contributed a fair enough amount, he doesn't need to do that. The only claim that he's scummy that I could see making on that is that maybe he's trying to say "Sorry guys, I'm new to this and have no clue what to do, so if I'm do something stupid don't assume I'm scum," but really, I just think he really is just getting used to the way it works around here.

It seems I do not have any support on mcmc. I'm willing to let that go for now, no point pushing something that won't happen. I will Vote: Mail-mi instead. like other's have mentioned, this post:

Well that's too quick of a wagon for him to be scum. Although that was a suspicious post.
Is super-convenient for scum. In this post, he says very little, not drawing attention to himself (well, that didn't work out), he takes the stance of defending someone which will look good once he flips town (if he's town), and at the same time, fans the flames for the wagon to continue. He has said that this was just his thought process, however, at the end of this, he does not come to a conclusion. As of this post, he can go either way on mcmc without being accused of flipping. In other words, he's hedging.

PPE: 4

My confusion here is that July 3rd isn't a Monday, unless my calendar is wrong.

4224
Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« on: June 24, 2013, 09:26:04 am »
Well, whining about it doesn't help I guess.

The post right before the one I'm quoting here is whining about it a bit, then he posts this, why bother to grump grump nevermind in two posts?  There was an argument about whether or not it was an overreaction on purpose (because of potential re-scumming) post-reset, and it's continued to weigh on my mind that the lady doth protest too much.

4225
Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« on: June 24, 2013, 09:21:53 am »
chairs, why did you vote for robz?

SB, I must have missed where he said that, can you show it to me?

Robz, I'm not covering for him, I just don't find that particular comment of his particularly incriminating. All he did was put mcmc at L-1.

This time I'll pull in quotes, though if we clarify that we still have a week the argument could be made for a change of mind.

Is no one else on chairs? Do people disagree with me? He made a really scummy move. Remember that this is his first game, where if he is scum, he is likely to make accidental scum moves.
Nope, don't really think that was too scummy of a move. you say his mcmc vote was "wagoning" and "dangerous". I assume you mean in regard to him putting mcmc at L-1. I think it reasonable that he didn't realize he was putting him at L-1, or that he didn't think that was too big of a deal. slightly scummy at best.

Why are you covering for him?

I'd add more but the topic summary doesn't let me go back further (I can try to find additional posts and add them in a fresh post).  He seems to be beating the chairs drum the most, and I figure either he legitimately thinks I'm scum or he's pushing for a mislynch (which would suggest scum).  I suppose the third possibility is that he's looking for reactions from the proverbial peanut gallery, in which case he got one, at least from me.  I hope it helps.  I also thought we were at ~24 hours to D1 end and as I"m at work there's a real possibility I wouldn't necessarily get the opportunity to post for the rest of the day (I should really be working instead of typing, etc etc) so I wanted to ensure I'd cast a lot towards someone I thought at least seemed scummy.

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