Unvote
Initial reaction is to believe this but I need to think about it. I'm thinking it's probably true though.
Regardless, though:
I believe Eevee is no longer a viable lynch target. If we're lynching him, we're saying that we think Eevee is scum, AND Xeiron is lying scum, as well. There are instances where Xeiron could be scum, but Eevee isn't (Xeiron is making this up to gain town cred if Eevee flips town). The only instance where Xeiron is town but Eevee is scum is if Eevee is godfather.
This being said, if we don't believe the claim, we should 100% lynch Xeiron, not Eevee. Eevee should not be lynched today.
He says this like it's no big deal if we lynch a PR. It still is, especially if it's a super powerful role like cop or doctor. Additionally, EFHW brought up at some point that most of our roles are probably going to be 1-shot based on the fact that we can create our own PR's. People thought this meant that our PR's we create are going to be 1-shot. While this makes a lot of sense, I think it's more important to note that most of our initial PR's are probably 1-shot. If we're able to give ourselves a PR every night, I feel like an unlimited PR would be way OP. This being said, if ash is an investigative role, I'm not sure he would use up his 1 shot night 0. This also includes losing whatever item(s) ash is capable of giving away. Long story short, I don't like how unconcerned xerion is with a mislynch.Why did you decided to use your one shot cop on N0?
1. So I could send items to someone right from the start knowing they are town. (If they showed scum I would have them lynched D1)
2. To get a reliable read, as I believe any redirectors, framers or other roles that messes with results would be more likely to appear later in the game if they exists in this game at all. In RMM7 scum won by messing with the cop.
3. I hoped I would get other fancy roles to use later in the game.
Ahoppy seems to believe that if one has a one-shot power, then they lose the ability to send items. This reads to me as something Ahoppy knows, and not merely speculation. Xeiron claims to be one-shot, yet still be able to send items after using his power.
I think this is worth discussing.
Town on Day1 is also willing to explain why he's "figured" out the scum team, so we can actually, you know, lynch them, rather than refusing to explain their reads. I think that the player with the most incentive to refuse to explain reads is the player who doesn't actually have them and is making up conclusions.
noA couple of questions for you, Xeiron:
If you're so sure that scum falls among four people, why on earth would you want to no lynch? Assuming 3 scum, that's a 75% chance of success! If I thought I had a 75% chance of success, no way I'd ever be advocating not actually lynching someone!
If you're so sure of who's scum, what's the point of your plan?
Everytime you make a post like this, you just get more suspicious to me..I think you're town, but man, you are so certain about so many things that you just can't possibly be certain about.
Several of these townreads did appeared after I put forth my no-lynch play.
I guess you are right that I should start working towards lynching someone now.
I whish I could say you are wrong in the last sentence, but you may be right that I am more certain about this game than I am.
It should be fine for D1, and I will thoroughly reconsider all my reads and assumtions in when D2 starts to make sure I wont play this game misguided.
In the meantime, can you please explain your reads? Every single one of them?
I've read the case on Eevee and his "that's just how I play as town" defense and I will vote: Eevee because I like the case, don't like the defense, and he's closest to being lynched.
Mail-mi is still providing a mislynch-excuse with "But we needed a lynch and eevee was closest.
Actually, I hope people can refer back to my earlier posts to see the reasons for my vote and case on Eevee. I don't want to get into a back and forth disputing each part of things he or I say. I think I have addressed all the relevant issues and unless new ones come up, I'm going to leave it up to town to make their best decision at this point.
I have no idea re: mail-mi. He's being thoroughly scummy, but that doesn't necessarily mean anything, unfortunately. Earlier I said he was being scummy even for him, but in retrospect I think he's being typically scummy.
Yeah, I don't know how to refute the case. This is how I play as town, I just spew my what's in my mind out there. And hmm, well, I think people are pulling the quotes up selectively and misrepresenting their meaning a lot.
Should I claim or something? I guess I'm as good a mislynch as any.
Chairs & TA, you asked for this and NEVER commented on it. Why is this not convincing enough for you?I'm kind of in the same boat as theorel - none of the wagons presented are particularly appealing. However, I'm willing to take a bad lynch over no lynch, I suppose. I'd like to see some (polite, calm) arguments for/against eevee and efhw cases to see if I can be swayed to either, but I'm leaning towards the relatively-quiet Ahoppy at the moment.I think most of the case on Ahoppy is he's a lurker and not scum hunting, correct? That's how he played in Mean Girls. The stuff he did previously when I voted was certainly fishy, but it's true that he jumped on Eevee, and not EFHW, when EFHW had the most votes.
It's not just that he's being quiet and backgroundy. I think that is a large strike against him. But also, when you review his posts, he spent the early part of today talking about theory while there was plenty of scumhunting going on to talk about. After many posts about items/no-lynch, AHoppy posts this:QuoteI think TA has hit it on the nose. I think today we should work on more scum hunting and less on the items. I like the items, I think it's cool, but I also think they could serve as a distraction from the big goal:kill scum. And I think scum could use that to their advantagesaying we should focus more on scumhunting.
His next 3 posts are all about items and theory, and the third finishes with thisQuoteHowever, I should remind people that we do need to get to scum hunting.
His next post (#284) is really the first that he tries to do anything in the way of scumhunting. And all he does is call out lurkers; also misremembering who was fightign with Twisted at that point (it was me, but he said raerae). He really isn't focused on any arguments, or any scumhunting at this point. Finally he starts coming in with some reads about people starting from #554, but since then he's only had 15 posts.
The second point against AHoppy, is that in addition to being relatively absent, he continually pops up when his name is mentioned. raerae had a post about this earlier. In addition, Ahoppy comes back after a large break apologizing for being absent, and it comes within half-hour of me voting for him, and also Eevee noting that nobody has noticed AHoppy in ages. His last post before then was more than 2 days ago. Vacations are vacations, I understand. But as newer scum confused in a game with some pretty loud voices, there is a lot of incentive to stretch those absences until he gets nervous by many people mentioning his name.
Here is raerae's post to this effect.shraeye, AHoppy was a pretty frequent poster at the start of the game but then went MIA when talk started to turn away from theory. EFHW noted that with this post and AHoppy's response was the very next post. (NOTE: Most posts have been trimmed for spacing.)No idea: X, -- and I have to look up to see who else is playing -- chairs, Ahoppy, nkirbit. Would love to hear from you guys!Sorry, I've been a little busy. I'm planning on rereading and posting my thoughts tonight.
Then nothing for a bit but this...Alright, I'm about to start my re-read, I'll post thoughts when I finish
EFHW is again the one to notice the under-contributing AHoppy.Chairs is v/la, Ahoppy hasn't been back. We haven't heard from raerae or shraeye or theorel much today. So nothing new to say there.
And BOOM! three posts later the man himself shows up with something that almost resembles reads but really doesn't give opinions on folks.
Again promises read when theorel points out his previous reread post didn't actually contain reads.I'll get my re-reads when I'm not on mobile. But theorel, I find it strange that you put out your scum reads, and then vote for your number 2. Why not your number 1?
Finally posts a real read re: SB & TA and fell on the side of seeing SB as scummy.
Alright, sorry for my absence again, but real life trumps mafia, sorry. Anyways, thoughts while I was away:
Fair point, that chairs really hasn't done anything ultra towny besides his claim. I still see it as town, but I understand that you may not. Heck, he and xerion could have planned this together from the beginning to set up some crazy D1 fake claim. Far fetched? yeah, but still, gotta think of all the options. Another question though: If you're willing to lynch chairs, then you're also willing to let xerion not go through with his plan. so are you then willing to lynch xerion?
Also, I see a lot of people clamoring for the cases on eevee, so here's a link to mineI'll be the first to admit it isn't a very strong case, and is based on scumteams which I think are tough to call D1, but I still don't like his seeming to communicate with ash.
Looking over the spiritbears wagon stuff (from post 1252):
-Eevee thinks this has all the makings of a mislynch. This early, I'm not sure I would have called this the makings of a mislynch. With only 2 people ever voting for spiritbears, he was never really in danger of getting lynched. Building a case on him =/= to building a mislynch. Town builds cases all the time, and pushes for reactions. TA was just pushing for an answer that never seemed to come.
-Ash thinks SB looks towny
-Eevee flips and says he's not against a spirit lynch (even though he looked like a mislynch earlier) and is now reading him null
-the very next post, ash also flips and says he's neutral on SB. I still don't like the buddying between you too. I understand some of this may be reading into you two from mean girls too much, but I really don't want to get burned again and I'm seeing some parallels.
xerion comes in saying that the best way to end the day quickly is to still follow him? even though he is the only one currently willing to no lynch? I was one of the few people willing to no lynch earlier and now I don't think that is the best idea who do you think is going to follow you x? do you really think you can get 6 more people, especially considering many say they never want to no lynch?One problem about lynching EFHW is that when she was scum in RMM7, no one (especially not me) had any clue. So, being suspected a lot doesn't really fit what we know of her previous scum play.I haven't read RMM7 so I can't comment on that, but I really don't understand this... if she's suspected as scum, she probably isn't scum? So any time we suspect that she is scum we should not lynch her, and any time we think she isn't scum we should? I'm sorry eevee, that makes no sense to me.
So those are the significant things I gathered from today (Real time). I still don't like xerion very much, and if more than me, theorel and nkirbit could get behind a xerion lynch, I probably would. But for now, the most compelling case to me is still eevee. Although, mail-mi hasn't been very active in a while and I don't really remember much of shraeye's play, so I should go back and re-read them when I have time. But for now I don't have the time and we need a lynch
Regarding my lurking and theory talk:
During the day I am at work, where I can check the thread on my phone. So I usually keep up and then post something if I really have something to say about it (which isn't often, and just so happens to usually involve myself). I do this because there are a number of times where I have an idea and tell myself I'll post it later, and then either I forget it, or someone else says it and I would end up just sheeping their point rather than being able to make it myself... Also, I keep posts relatively brief while at work (I am supposed to be working you know) and so it is easier to discuss theory. I also have a hard time working with quotes and re-reading on my phone, so scum-hunting is much harder. Not a very compelling excuse, but there it is.
PPE: I agree with you TA, I can't comprehend how xerion can be so sure of everyone this early. I wasn't that sure on the last day of mean girls... doesn't sit well with me either.
Shraeye, two reasons why I'm hesitant and why I prefer Eevee:
1) I have a town read on Nkirbit, and Nkirbit has reason to believe Ahoppy is town based off his leaked info.
2) I just think this might be how Ahoppy plays, and that he's not all that used to scumhunting, and goes off of stuff other people generate. That's just a different way of playing, and not necessarily scummy.
The idea of lynching lurkers is that they're scared and they stay back and are afraid to post normally, right? Well, if the person posts the same amount and hunts the same amount as they did when they were town, this argument loses traction.
Don't get me wrong, he's definitely not the worst lynch, and I'm slight scum on him (although less so after nkirbit's info), but I think Eevee is more likely to flip scum.
I'd still lynch Ahoppy over EFHW, though.
My reads:
Town:
Xeiron, Chairs, Ashersky, Nkirbit, Ahoppy, eevee, raerae, Theorel.
These townreads makes up the backbones of my reads. They are all based on things that have been said and done, And all of them have very little to no chance of flipping scum.
I am a little conserened that with so many townreads already, scum might have slipped in here somehow. For now I will treat all of these as town and concentrate on the rest:
Scum: TwistedArcher, mail-mi, Shraeye, EFHW
The remaining players. I have thought about possible scumteams and I think
{TwistedArcher, Shraeye, mail-mi} fits the best when reading the game.
Chairs, you should really get your vote down.
It's honestly been pretty hard for me to decide, but deadlines wait for no man, and I suppose I should pick one of the three viable lynches, so...
Vote: Eevee
What deadline? Nobody has set one yet. Why is Eevee the best choice?
This is a convenience lynch. Half the people on this wagon are voting because they "don't like" the other options, not because they think Eevee is scum. We still have plenty of time. If you don't like the options then present a new one.
Chairs, you should really get your vote down.
Argh, generalizations are bad matey!
Yeah, that's what I always say when I hear them too.
Exactly, dahling.liopoil - I understand the concept of policy votes, but exceptions to rules ought to be made, and SB's behaviour certainly seemed to warrant the exception, particularly as he's almost certainly town. (Obviously this is now eevee so we'll have some fun confirming that with the new reads).so you disagree with my vote. why does this make me scummy? And you are dangerously sure of yourself on eevee/SB. scum can do crazy things...
eevee/spiritbears - I'm convinced (based on SB's play) that Eevee is town. SB was so on tilt at the end that I don't see any chance that it was scum play.
Robz888 - If he's not scum I might have to eat my hat. Mostly my gut, I guess (although I've pointed out a few things that irk me in earlier posts).
There are no hats left on the Forum Games board; people who said that exact think have gobbled them all down after being proved wrong.
I'm being cute, but seriously. I, and lots of other people, have made "this is such a for-sure thing" bets all the time and been wrong, all the all the time. Someone back me up here.
I'm honestly enjoying myself, so even if I'm wrong - hey, that just means I'm learning how you guys play, and maybe I can read you better next time, as well as learning a bit about how to not be forum dumb. In the meantime, I'll find some steak sauce just in case.
Ugh, I do agree with shraeye that we should vote a lurker, and would rather lynch Ahoppy than either Eevee or EFHW, but I have one major reservation about this lynch that makes me uncomfortable. It has to do with the leaked info from his one post... it was info that town would more likely have than scum. I know this is really vague, and I can elaborate, but don't think I should at this point.So all you have is that you have a null read, I'm towny like I was in Shakespeare, and Ashersky thinks I made a scumslip. I knew I could expect to get increased mistrust after Shakespeare, but even so I don't think town!you would vote based on this, and given the interactions between you and Eevee, and your crusade against xeiron, I'd venture to say you and Eevee may be partners.
I have a town read on Eevee, so won't be voting there.
EFHW I'm still null on. I not as convinced as Ash that it was a scum slip, but it could be. And that's really all I have on EFHW. And she's not a lurker.
I really am torn between the two of them. I know I said I would choose Ahoppy earlier, but I have a serious reservation, and I don't have one about EFHW. On the surface, I agree that Ahoppy has been lurking more and has not been scumhunting much. Basically, I have reasons to lynch ahoppy and a decent reason to not lynch ahoppy, but not much on EFHW at all, so I'm unsure of what to do.
I think the tie-breaker is going to have to be that I have the same feeling here that I had about EFHW in Shakespeare: No clue. In Shakespeare it turned out she was scum. I'm going to hope the same is true here if we end up on this lynch.
Vote: EFHW
This is an aside with no scientific basis whatsoever, but my subjective impression is that posts starting with "Ugh" or "Argh" tend to be by scum. Has anyone else observed that? Also purely subjective, the first paragraph of nkirbit's post reads scummy to me.
One problem about lynching EFHW is that when she was scum in RMM7, no one (especially not me) had any clue. So, being suspected a lot doesn't really fit what we know of her previous scum play.Does fit with Pirates, though!
Chairs, you're the dispenser of the paper. Do you believe Xeiron?
I'm saying that even if EFHW is scum, ashersky is being way unfair to her, just spinning everything she does into evidence of her being scum. Even if she is scum, it's not like her choosing lighthouse as her avatar or her being worried of being todays lynch are indications of that.Ash, you are in hardcore tunnel mode though, and not looking at things objectively. It's clear EFHW is in super scramble mode already, that's just an indication of that.Wait, I don't understand what you're talking about. Are you saying that EFHW is scum? Or that ashersky is tunnelling too far? Those seem like opposite ideas.
I'm again stuck between "man, it kind of feels like ashersky might be scumtunneling" and "man, EFHW is really caught off-kilter on this, is it because it's scum desperately trying to get onto another wagon". I'm almost tempted to suggest a slight townread for both and that this is some heavy TvT action, because they both seem so genuine (EFHW slightly less so, but I'm somewhat chalking that up to being on the defense).He asked for two no-lynches, remember. So scum gets two free passes. I don't like that about the plan, and absolutely think we don't follow the plan.I think the two no-lynches are not a good idea. Lynching seems to only hurt xeiron's plan if it's the paper giver, the pen giver, or xeiron hiimself. Well I'm not going to lynch xeiron, I won't lynch chairs, and I think the risk of hitting pen-giver out of the remaining is worth the chance to hit scum.
So we lynch today, we lynch tomorrow. We don't lynch X. I don't think anyone should give him pen/paper, either.
If I have control of pen/paper, I will absolutely give it to xeiron. I don't understand why you want to not lynch xeiron, but you also don't want to let him try his plan by giving him paper/pen.
Glad to have you back Chairs, and I look forward to having you catch up and post your reads. One thing I wanted to note:I agree that SB's /out (followed by the confirmed town post-modkill) was unfortunate, but at least we garnered some information out of it. The watcher/tracker mixup mention initially made me want to ask for followup from you on what you meant here (potential cop PR or scum or something?) but after rethinking your intent you were just explaining SB (if a watcher, as initially suggested) would have only seen that nobody did anything to Raerae, not whether Raerae did anything (though we now know that SB was a tracker and the "Raerae did nothing" description is accurate, suggesting town).
Even though Raerae did nothing, this doesn't really suggest that she's town in any way. It's RMM, so scum and town both have night actions. I get a null read from it, and I'm not going to give her any town credit for it. (though I DO still think she's town).
Now here's an interesting situation. I agree with TA on this, and this leans towards ash being slightly scum. If Ash is not a native-born English speaker, I would lean more towards null-read from this as it could be language barrier in a very very specific sort of context.
I'm the opposite actually. Native speaker, degree in English - Creative Writing. It might be that I take word choice/language into consideration too much when analyzing the game. It's why I hinge on things like "since instead of if" in sentences like that.
Glad to have you back Chairs, and I look forward to having you catch up and post your reads. One thing I wanted to note:I agree that SB's /out (followed by the confirmed town post-modkill) was unfortunate, but at least we garnered some information out of it. The watcher/tracker mixup mention initially made me want to ask for followup from you on what you meant here (potential cop PR or scum or something?) but after rethinking your intent you were just explaining SB (if a watcher, as initially suggested) would have only seen that nobody did anything to Raerae, not whether Raerae did anything (though we now know that SB was a tracker and the "Raerae did nothing" description is accurate, suggesting town).
Even though Raerae did nothing, this doesn't really suggest that she's town in any way. It's RMM, so scum and town both have night actions. I get a null read from it, and I'm not going to give her any town credit for it. (though I DO still think she's town).
I think it tells us raerae did not give an item to anyone, as Arch previously confirmed role powers interact normally with item powers.
Um, I find it EXTREMELY weird that yuma says he has a case against liopoil, doesn't give it, and mcmc and SB vote without even hearing the case! Okay, sheeple.Except mcmc gave a reason and sb sheeped that one. Just to be clear.
Vote: mcmc
The reason mcmc gave is paper thin.
spiritbears, that lynch wasn't a done deal. It was still possible for us to lynch somebody else that day. nkirbit didn't play perfectly, and maybe could have done more to prevent his lynch, but up until your hammer, there wasn't a 5th person to vote for him. chances are he would've been lynched anyway, but you made it certain.I have two questions for you:1) you're asking the wrong question. The question is exactly how did I hurt town by hammering a player that had been at l-1 for quite a while, had plenty of chances to fight for his life and refused, had plenty of chances to give reads, claim etc. And didn't, etc. Exactly how was nk helping us? The answer is he wasn't. And you defending that kind of play...and going further declaring it scummy to EVER hammer a player in that situation is just not good fir us...it's scummy
1. Why do you disagree? aka, why would hammering a townread ever help you achieve the town wincon? not asking you to change your mind, just wondering.
2. Why does me holding a belief you disagree with make me more likely to be scum?
2. See above
I do agree with that, actually.
You and mcmc were clearly following yuma's vote, which carried no explanation. Mcmc's quick justification of the sheeping rings false to me. You, I tihnk, are merely wrong.
I'm going to walk away from here...my appoligies to Shraeye. Your game was fun and I enjoyed it. But apparently I have made this game unfun for many of you here. I'm sorry
Is chairs still V/LA?
I didn't understand that there was a V/LA thread to post to, in the future you'll see me post there when I have to be gone.vote: liopoilwell, okay...
Alas I do not have time to give complete reasonings as to why. I have been at work all day--following along via e-mail's--and will be there again tomorrow until evening when I will be able to post something a bit more substantial.
I'll let you all hypothesize as to why I am voting for him though, that sounds like fun...no. it's the opposite:nkirbit DID defend himself, I can quote his posts for you. I don't think it was his fault he got mislynched, it was the fault of the people on the wagon and the fault of everyone off wagon not defending him. No way should town EVER hammer somebody they have a townread on under any circumstance. This excuse it just way too convenient for spiritbears.Hopefully the same reason I am going to vote: liopoil we just went over how much town needed to stop shooting itself in the foot with statements like this (bolded above) That is way too weak a reason to push a D2 wagon and is not scum hunting or analyzing its theorizing about what is "towny" which has not worked for town recently.
"we just went over how much town needs to stop shooting itself in the foot with statements like this: (No way should town EVER hammer somebody they have a townread on under any circumstance.)"
I'M town shooting myself in the foot?(1) well if I'm town, why are you voting for me? more importantly, how do you know I'm town?(2) clearly you don't think I'm town though, so I don't understand why me "shooting myself in the foot" (which I only "am" according to you if I'm town) is scummy. Are you saying that if I'm town, I'm shooting myself in the foot, but if I'm town, I wouldn't shoot myself in the foot, so I'm scum? That would make perfect sense if I was shooting myself in the foot, but I'm not.
I say that town should never hammer their townread, which I believe to be true. Based on this, spiritbears, if town, wouldn't hammer his townread(3). because he did something I don't think would happen if he is town, I think he is scum. It's just logic, and I think it's valid logic and a quite strong reason for a lynch on D2. The only potential flaw I see is that perhaps SB did shoot himself in the foot. It seems everyone thinks that he did. I am giving him the assumption that he would not do what I see to be a mistake.
"That is way too weak a reason to push a D2 wagon and is not scum hunting or analyzing its theorizing about what is "towny" which has not worked for town recently."
I don't think it is weak. I think it is a good line of reasoning. It's scumhunting, because I'm town who thinks SB is scum. I'm theorizing about what town would and wouldn't do. the reason it has not worked for town is that town has been playing badly and doing things that town shouldn't do. If town started acting like town it would be a lot easier to lynch scum.
mcmc, why do you think I am scum? the only line of reasoning I can sort of find in your post is that "If liopoil is town he is shooting himself in the foot, he wouldn't shoot himself in the foot, so he's scum". And that, as it happens, is the exact same reasoning I am using to find SB to be scum, which you disagree with yourself.
This is the sort if thing that makes me think you are scum and I really need to remember after this game so I can improve my reading of you.
Let me clarify what I meant and why I thought you were scummy.
1) I don't think you are town shooting yourself in the foot I think generally townies have been shooting themselves in the foot by lynching based on this "town shouldn't do X" logic. Now seeing as we just had that discussion I think it is more likely scum!liopoil pushes the wagon that "town shouldn't do X" than that town!liopoil actually thinks spiritbears is scummy for hammering a town read.
My second issue with this is that it is a completely safe legitimate unprovable wagon which I am being extra cautious of. I mean yes sb had a town read yes he hammered him, I don't think that means he is any more likely to be scum, so you saying he did that is safe and in my opinion pushing a townie lynch, so I find you scummy for it.
2) this is something else I find really scummy, you decide I have a bad reasoning for finding you scummy and say I think your townie(I wasn't saying that) then piggyback onto the same statement that I a scummy because "how do I know your town" I mean really that is so much of a jump to an advantageous position for yourself and it something I find scum more likely to do(it's very similar to the tactic ash used against me previously) you sweep my argument under the rug and exclaim I'm scummy in the same breath without any response or reason.
You've all been exceedingly prolific this weekend, haven't you? And SB... that's an unfortunate situation, there. It reinforces my opinion that TA was the scummier of the two (at the time I made that decision), though at current moment I'm hard-pressed to argue that it's necessarily TA.I'm still processing all the new posts (sorry I've been missing) and I think that we could safely say that either spiritbears or ta are likely scum. There are potential other options but those two could have been arguing for the benefit of detracting from meaningful conversation. Since we're looking close to soft deadline... vote: twistedarcher
People questioned why Chairs came to the conclusion that one of the two are likely scum, but I don't think anyone asked:
Why did you pick TA as your vote rather than SB, Chairs? Was there a reason?
I think you must be misunderstanding me. My reasoning went like this:-- He brings up the possibility that scum can steal items. This could be read either way, but in general I don't think scum would want to alert town to possible dangers, especially since scum could get a stealing power from items even if they don't have one now.See bolded sentence for possible scumslip, or yet another instance of town claiming information on accident. How could you know scum can gain the ability to steal something from items? Scum might know this from their own info. Or you yourself know of such an item, as town. But really, this is bad. Like, lynching bad.
1. If scum has a stealing power and TA is scum, he would not remind town of the possibility.
2. If scum doesn't have stealing power, TA could still be scum and bring up stealing to create confusion and seem towny.
3. BUT in this game, even if scum doesn't have stealing power now, they could get it in the future and therefore #1 still applies, and this is evidence of TA's towniness.
The possibility of a scumslip lies in the possibility of you saying "The power's out there, and scum COULD get it", rather than it coming across as "There COULD be a power out there that lets scum do this". Ash is interpreting as the first I presume. I don't agree that this is necessarily the case.
Ahoppy is v/la, btw, and I think chairs said he would be gone, too? He didn't put it in the v/la thread.
Unvote
I believe the claim, SB has no reason to lie if he's /outing. I think it's silly that we have a basically verified town member due to it, but oh well that's the game.
SB also got watcher/tracker confused, I think. No one targeted Raerae last night -- Raerae still very well may have performed actions.
