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Messages - Warfreak2

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1076
Game Reports / Re: 5/2 Options Against Familiar
« on: May 20, 2013, 05:42:43 pm »
I recently witnessed the effectiveness of a Saboteur opening against me. When you're buying 2-3 cards per shuffle, losing one of them is a big deal. In the early game, Saboteur never hits something unimportant, and when it hits, your compensation is you may gain a Copper or a Curse.

1077
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Whale - the Moby Dick card
« on: May 20, 2013, 05:18:13 pm »
Perhaps, but Tunnels (and their Golds) aren't generally good additions to a Pirate Ship engine which wants to draw and play as many Pirate Ships per turn as possible, ideally making them worth a lot more than Golds; by forcing the other three players to deny me Tunnels, I made their engines less efficient. On the other hand, I'm not building a Pirate Ship engine, I can instead build a deck based around my Tunnels; maybe I'll even find ways to discard them myself? Doesn't sound very unusual. Anyway, it's almost like this is a strategy game or something.

1078
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Garbage Collector
« on: May 20, 2013, 04:59:31 pm »
Thinking about it more, if the counter is simply not buying or playing Garbage Collector (so they can never use that stuff you're Expanding), then of course the Island effect is permanent. I suppose it does have a little more use, then, and there's a a race to collect a lot of valuable garbage before your opponent can play one, because by then they won't want to give you back all those Border Villages you remodelled. However, in the absence of Rebuild, I'd probably still just ignore it.

1079
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Whale - the Moby Dick card
« on: May 20, 2013, 04:37:46 pm »
I could definitely have worded it better; yes, it's only the early game, when you still have any Coppers left, that those outcomes are likely. Later in the game, Tunnel/Gold is most likely, with Gold/Gold (respectively Gold/Estate) being a little less likely than Tunnel/Tunnel (respectively Tunnel/Estate) until you have as many Golds as Tunnels. Occasionally you will have more or fewer Golds than Tunnels, but then the other is more likely to get hit and you go back to equilibrium again.

If the advice has gone from "you must buy Pirate Ship if the other three players do" to "the Pirate Ship players must buy Tunnel if the fourth player does" then I think I've made my point. I wouldn't say your Tunnels are pointless, if you manage to get about 7 of them then you're Provincing about 30% of the time, and that's without looking at any of the other 8 Kingdom cards; pick up a couple of Smithies and it's a lot easier to draw three Golds.

1080
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Whale - the Moby Dick card
« on: May 20, 2013, 04:02:43 pm »
I ignored Copper/Copper because that stops being very likely after the first three hits, which is one per opponent in a four player game. It's a waste of time buying Gold because 3+ Pirate Ships per turn will pretty quickly to get you to the equilibrium of having one Gold per Tunnel; if you want to have more Golds, buy more Tunnels, even on $6 (otherwise, buy Duchy, or three-pile if you can). Yes, most of your hands will be $6, but as I said, you only need to hit $8 (well, $9) twice in the whole game. Actually once your deck is just 3 Estates, 6 Tunnels and 6 Golds, you have a 28.7% chance of hitting $9+; at 8 Tunnels/Golds it's 33.6%, at 10 it's 36.7%, and for 12 Tunnels/Golds you have a 38.8% chance of buying a Province.

1081
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Whale - the Moby Dick card
« on: May 20, 2013, 10:43:10 am »
And watch everybody trash your gold!
Since you start with 7 Coppers, most of the time they will hit Copper/Tunnel, Copper/Estate or Tunnel/Estate, in that order or likeliness. By the time you have enough Golds for them to hit reliably, you will have more Tunnels, getting Tunnel/Tunnel isn't so unlikely, and a Gold/Tunnel hit is almost neutral to you. In a four-player game, there's only three Provinces each; probably you only need to hit three Golds twice in order to win, because 12 Tunnels are already worth three Provinces. If the other players buy Tunnels too, three Pirate Ships hitting each other's Golds means their Ships are going to be worth more and more whatever you do.

Of course, I'm just using my intuition, where are the simulators?

1082
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: A twist on Treasure-stealing attacks
« on: May 20, 2013, 10:34:13 am »
This sounds super-swingy. I hit a few of your Coppers, you hit my Claim, it's the Tournament problem except now I have to hit your Claim twice to make a comeback, instead of just hitting it once like you had to.

How about trashing the Claims when you activate them? Then you can only use them once at a time, so maybe make them stronger ($2 each?), and it gives me some recourse if you hit them first; I can grab one back from the trash with my next Tax Collector play, since the card doesn't say I have to gain a Treasure that it trashed itself.

1083
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Garbage Collector
« on: May 20, 2013, 10:17:32 am »
The main purposes would be to power up your own trash-for-benefit of victory cards - and discourage your opponent's - that's Rebuild, Golden Decks, endgame Apprentice/Salvager, and anything with Feodum - but not much else. Normally if you're Remodelling or Expanding, you're turning expensive Actions and Treasures into Provinces, you won't buy a Duchy just to Expand it, you can buy something useful for $5 and Expand it anyway. It wouldn't really discourage other sorts of TfB because they can just not buy or play a Garbage Collector, and then you never get to use all those Actions and Treasures that you grab.

The main problem is that in kingdoms without trashing, which are rarer in these Dark Ages, but of course they do happen, it's a dead card. Dominion cards are designed to be self-contained - e.g. Graverobber gives you a way to grab cards from the trash, so it also gives you a way to put cards in the trash that you'd like to grab. Therefore, it needs some way to trash cards - how about trashing cards when you play it? Then there's a problem, because if there aren't other trashers, then your duration effect is mooted as you'll never collect cards your opponent trashes with it (they'll collect them instead).

If it's a pointless card without trash-for-benefit of Victory cards, then it needs to be in the kingdom with at least one other card which trashes Victory cards for benefit. The obvious solution would be to force that condition by saying "in games using this, add another pile of card X" where card X is some other card you have to design, either in the supply, or not-in-the-supply which you gain by doing something with Garbage Collector - not buying anything when you have a Garbage Collector in play? Having a Garbage Collector in play at the beginning of your turn (so your opponent didn't knock it out with their own one) might be more interesting. Of course you could say that card X is either Rebuild or Bishop, but then it doesn't work for people who don't have either DA or Prosperity (maybe that's OK with you).

I thought about a similar card to this, which just stayed out until the start of your next turn, and simply collected every card to your discard pile, no choice. Obviously it would be cheaper than yours... while less powerful, it would have more use-cases, since remodelling/expanding Gold->Province, Remodel->Grand Market, etc. are more numerous/common situations than using them on Victory cards. Furthermore, it's a hard counter, and also powerup, to trashing attacks like Swindler/Saboteur/Rogue/Pirate Ship, and Knights especially, because if you have one in play, you get to keep the cards they hit, and also their cards that you hit - they hit your Knight, or you hit their Knight, and you keep both Knights. It's also a defense against Thief/Noble Brigand, and solves the problem of having a Mercenary but nothing to trash with it.

1084
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Whale - the Moby Dick card
« on: May 19, 2013, 04:45:27 am »
If you're in a 4+ player game you better buy them if everyone else is or you're at a huge disadvantage.
Or piledrive Tunnels!

1085
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Whale - the Moby Dick card
« on: May 17, 2013, 05:18:24 pm »
Yes, I think if they "dodge" your attack by discarding their quite nice Merchant Ship/Ghost Ship then you already got enough out of it, +$2 is obscene. I'd almost always keep that Ship in my hand and take the Curse, even if you wouldn't get $2 out of it the other way.

1086
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Whale - the Moby Dick card
« on: May 17, 2013, 04:38:23 pm »
I think if I can take a $6 card when my opponent plays Witch/Young Witch/Familiar, I will open Remodel/Develop. Otherwise the idea of "cards which are powerful but offset that with a negative VP attached to them" is apparently common enough to warrant its own section in the Dominion Fan Card Creation Guide (Part II, #5). Also, Part II, #10 is about referencing cards which might not be in the kingdom.

1087
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Thought experiment: Overhaul
« on: May 17, 2013, 04:10:41 pm »
You're still talking about endgame strategy, and my point was that Expand is for far more than just snagging some extra Provinces in the endgame. The most important point is that your deck starts out with 10 cards you don't want, and may collect more vs Witch/Mountebank, and if you want a good engine you probably need to get rid of them somehow. Graverobber doesn't do that at all. Expand increases the number of engine components you have while eliminating junk; Graverobber turns cheap engine components into expensive ones, but your engine stays the same size, probably needed some of those cheap ones anyway, and can't do anything with your junk. Sure, you can buy more Hamlets or Pawns than you need, but Expand doesn't need dinner and a movie first.

Obviously buy a Mountebank before buying Expand, but if you have an engine going, I am sure that you would like a couple more. Anyway, get any $5 action you want, it doesn't have to be Mountebank - there are plenty of $5 cards that you want as many of as possible, like Highway, City, Horn of Plenty, Hunting Party.

Silver->GM is far better than Village->GM because Grand Market chains can't get stuck when they draw Villages, probably you wanted those Villages for other things anyway, and you know, you can't buy Graverobber with Villages.

1088
Goko is very slow for me, to the point where checking somebody's rating before joining their game usually means someone else has joined first; so sometimes I join a game and then leave when I find out that the other player is not near my level. For some reason, this time goko decided that actually I'd be playing both of those games, so I saw the opening hand of the first game and then it switched to another game with different cards and a different opponent. I was able to play the second game without too many problems - the screen occasionally flickered with a portion of the other game screen, and the game log (using the browser extension) showed half-way through that I lost the first game by default.

How on Earth can this even happen? When I click to join a different game, leaving the game I am in should be part of that atomic operation. Is my browser literally sending "leave this game" and "join this game" as separate instructions to the server, and this time the first one didn't arrive?

1089
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Thought experiment: Overhaul
« on: May 16, 2013, 07:18:01 pm »
Graverobber does that for $5, and can even take the trashed cards back to be turned into a Province again. I have never liked Expand, even for it's flexibility. I almost exclusively buy it if I get $7 instead of $8 near the end of the game.

Expand is much better for engines than Graverobber, because it feeds on the junk in your deck rather than the engine components you already have and probably want to keep - Graverobber doesn't do Estate->Mountebank, nor Copper/Curse -> cheaper engine component. Expand can also do Estate->IGG->Province which is brutal, and it can turn Silvers into Grand Markets, which is nice because hitting $7 with a Silver or two is usually way easier than hitting $6 without Coppers.

1090
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Thought experiment: Overhaul
« on: May 16, 2013, 02:14:46 pm »
I think "up to $4 more" could be a good balance for the (severe) limitation; however, in many kingdoms, especially base-set (no dual-types, no $1/$6+ Action cards, no alt treasure, and no alt VP at $6), it would actually be the same as "up to $3 more". Well, they can't all be like the best $4 in the world...

1091
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Thought experiment: Overhaul
« on: May 16, 2013, 06:56:30 am »
I'd buy it at $4, but probably not at $5 unless I could draw my deck with a Kings Court to spare. Remodel seems more useful, $2 more instead of $3 more isn't a big deal when you can do Estate->Remodel->Gold->Province; that last stage is a powerful endgame advantage. As you say, it's significantly worse than all three of Mine, Graverobber and Rebuild for each of their purposes, and even though it can sort of do all three, normally you just want to do the one thing better.

With dual-type cards at $5/$6 it's nicer, but there aren't many of those; there's $3 Action->Nobles->Province, and Silver->Harem->Province, but that is all. I thought about the Reaction type as another way to transmute, but actually there aren't any Reaction cards for more than $4. Attack, Knights and Looter types are also non-starters because those are all Action cards anyway. With Shelters, Overgrown Estate->$4 Alt VP, Hovel->Market Square, Necropolis->$4 Action aren't too shabby.

That said, I can think of one situation in which it shines: Duchy/Duke (without Shelters). Open Overhaul/Silver, turn Copper into Silver while picking up two or three more Overhauls, buy a Duchy or two on lucky $5 hands, and then spend the rest of the game buying Estates and turning them into Duchies/Dukes.

1092
-If you are ahead in VP and can end the game on your turn, do so.
One of my Go teachers taught me a wonderful edge case for this one: if you have the opportunity to crush your opponent, do so - you'll have the psychological advantage for the next game.

1093
Game Reports / Re: The Full Rats
« on: May 02, 2013, 06:15:29 am »
But it doesn't help you in any way, except particular combos with other cards (Cellar/Storeroom/Secret Chamber/Vault), so I wouldn't call it feeding. Rather, Scrying Pool+Ruins feeds those cards.

1094
Game Reports / Re: The Full Rats
« on: April 30, 2013, 06:57:00 am »
[...] makes it a lot more likely you hit a big vein of consecutive actions.
I'm not sure what you mean by this, Ruins are never going to cause you to draw more non-Ruins actions. The best possible outcome is that Scrying Pool just ignores them, in which case they are totally neutral (except in combination with with Cellar/Warehouse/Secret Chamber/Vault, but that is Scrying Pool feeding those cards, not really Ruins feeding Scrying Pool). When they are neutral I don't think it's appropriate to say they are "feeding" it; certainly not in the same sense that Ruins feed Death Cart.

Farming Village neutralises Bureaucrat's attack (assuming you had no use for that green card in your hand anyway), but Bureaucrat doesn't "feed" Farming Village since Farming Village never draws different cards due to the opponent's attacks; the cards themselves might perform better with the smaller handsize, but that's not to Farming Village's advantage.

1095
Dominion General Discussion / Re: IGG, Fool's Gold and Thief
« on: April 30, 2013, 05:38:38 am »
The IGG -> Duchy pile out strategy doesn't sound quite as fast

Indeed, if Thief hits IGGs then there will still be IGGs left after the Curses are gone, which will then just be $5 worse-than-Silvers. How about IGG/Expand? You can do IGG -> Province while there's still some IGGs left, and Estate -> IGG speeds up the piling. Council Room/Fools Gold is probably faster though.

1096
Game Reports / Re: The Full Rats
« on: April 29, 2013, 05:15:41 pm »
Ruins don't feed Scrying Pools - they are a little worse than neutral. The number of Scrying Pools you need to draw your deck is theoretically equal to the number of non-Action cards in your deck (minus the number in your hand), and adding Ruins can't lower that number (though it can increase it by putting Ruins in your hand and leaving the Coppers/Estates in your deck). At best, Scrying Pools just draw the same cards they otherwise would, plus a few Ruins, but even then if you would have had an Estate on top, and you have Ruins then Estate instead, your Scrying Pool is still less effective.

Turning Coppers/Estates (and later, your Potion) into Rats definitely does, though; if you turn every non-Action card into Rats, one Scrying Pool draws your deck (and you'll be wanting a Scheme!).

1097
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Inverse Counting House?
« on: April 22, 2013, 05:56:53 am »
Golem and Rebuild are not comparable in this regard.  Golem is unreliable for activating Tunnel unless you have fewer than 2 non-Golem actions in your deck.  Rebuild is unreliable unless you only have Tunnels in your deck.
If you're going the activate-lots-of-Tunnels route, you probably don't mind having only one other Action card anyway, as it's really just a roundabout way to play Big Money - it's a small price to pay to activate all of them every time. Big Money normally just wants two terminal drawers anyway, you get one instead; that hardly matters since your Golems are terminal draw now too.

Rebuild can get snagged on Estates (or your single Overgrown Estate, which is way better), but you turn them into Tunnels! After the first one, you have two Estates left and Rebuild activates about a quarter of your Tunnels, after the second one it activates half of them, and then after the third one it activates all of them. If you draw the Estates in your hand along with Rebuild, that's nice too. Anyway, playing it three times before it activates all your Tunnels every time isn't so bad - once it does, you have three more of those Tunnels to activate! Rebuild being non-terminal definitely helps too.

1098
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Inverse Counting House?
« on: April 21, 2013, 07:16:10 pm »
Some strategies like Copper in your deck, such as going for Gardens, Silk Road or Duchy/Duke. In either case you'd probably name a green card and keep the Coppers for buying those cheap things you want.

1099
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Inverse Counting House?
« on: April 21, 2013, 06:49:39 pm »
Regarding Island, I think it would even make sense to use both, as your deck starts out with more than just one kind of junk - Island away the Estates or Shelters, and discard the Coppers to ICH.

1100
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Inverse Counting House?
« on: April 21, 2013, 06:40:57 pm »
1. You do not need to play the same Island once per reshuffle. Instead, you need to buy, gain, draw and play a new Island once per card.
2. If Island ends up at the bottom of your deck, it's not completely useless - unless you don't draw it without a card you want to remove from your deck, in which case Island is useless no matter when you draw it.

[...]

Also: Play it and say "Tunnel".

Right, no way is Island unilaterally better, but it has significant advantages, and I think you're underestimating how gutting the drawing-it-near-the-end-of-your-deck would be - on average, you will draw it half-way through your deck, meaning you get fewer than 50% of your hands clean of Coppers (after you take out the Coppers, your deck contains fewer cards and therefore cards for fewer hands).

I didn't consider Tunnel, but I'm not sure I mind it as a Tunnel-enabler. Again, on average it activates only half of them at once, Rebuild is similar at the same cost, and Golem is a powerful Tunnel-enabler at $4+p which is roughly equivalent to $6. If playtesting showed it to be too powerful combined with Tunnel, it could be "put in your discard pile" rather than "discard", sure.

I think it would be better if you could look through your hand and put your treasures into the discard pile.
Yes, that would literally be the opposite of Counting House, I did think about that!

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