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Messages - Witherweaver

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5401
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M75: Cupcake Mafia (Day 1)
« on: February 04, 2016, 10:22:51 am »
Why do you like wasting our time?

5402
Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM29: Board Game Mafia (GAME OVER)
« on: February 04, 2016, 10:07:22 am »
I agree.

5403
I can

/in

for Teproc.

5404
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M75: Cupcake Mafia (Day 1)
« on: February 04, 2016, 09:40:19 am »
ADK I don't want to lynch.  I also still haven't looked up what Fruit Vendor does.  Even in a case where scum knows its a safe claim (I haven't checked myself to see if that's possible), I'm not sure scum!ADK is the kind of player that does this.  Though we've had a string of early town claims lately.

In fact. Fruit Vendor is guaranteed to be counterclaimable.

I'm not sure about Lekkit's last point against Teproc (regarding counterclaiming).. at most I see that it implies Teproc does not have a PR that can counterclaim ADK; I don't see where the rest comes from.  He also claims Teproc is kind of posting without contributing.  I'm not really sure if this is true or not.  Nothing Teproc has done so far has made me want to reaction-vote him.

Here's the thing. If Teproc is a PR, there are basically two possibilities.

1. He's a PR from another row. He'll by his own argument counterclaim.

2. He's a PR from the same rows as Fruit Vendor. That would be Even Night Tracker, Jailkeeper, Watcher or Cop. ANY other PR would be able to counterclaim Fruit Vendor. Since nobody did, we can assume that ADK is in fact Fruit Vendor. Yet, he's still hesitant.

If Teproc is VT, then saying he thought about the claiming thing and then getting things messed up seems unlikely to me. Why would he say that? He knew some of the results of someone claiming, namely that scum would know which setup was rolled. But the IC part that faust laid out for him he missed. Basically he knew what would happen if a PR became known for scum but not for town. Not even why town would want to claim. And saying he "thought about that as well" while seemingly only having thought about it from a scum perspective seems... Not like something a VT would really do.

Oh, I see.  That is a better point than I thought. 

It is ?

Do I really have to explain what's wrong here ?

I guess I'll do : "I've thought about it", doesn't mean "I've thought about every possible angle and have made no mistake". It just means that I've thought about it.

Well I didn't think it was a valid point at all before, and now it has some nonzero amount of validity, so yes, it is a better point than I thought.

5405
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M75: Cupcake Mafia (Day 1)
« on: February 04, 2016, 09:32:02 am »
ADK I don't want to lynch.  I also still haven't looked up what Fruit Vendor does.  Even in a case where scum knows its a safe claim (I haven't checked myself to see if that's possible), I'm not sure scum!ADK is the kind of player that does this.  Though we've had a string of early town claims lately.

In fact. Fruit Vendor is guaranteed to be counterclaimable.

I'm not sure about Lekkit's last point against Teproc (regarding counterclaiming).. at most I see that it implies Teproc does not have a PR that can counterclaim ADK; I don't see where the rest comes from.  He also claims Teproc is kind of posting without contributing.  I'm not really sure if this is true or not.  Nothing Teproc has done so far has made me want to reaction-vote him.

Here's the thing. If Teproc is a PR, there are basically two possibilities.

1. He's a PR from another row. He'll by his own argument counterclaim.

2. He's a PR from the same rows as Fruit Vendor. That would be Even Night Tracker, Jailkeeper, Watcher or Cop. ANY other PR would be able to counterclaim Fruit Vendor. Since nobody did, we can assume that ADK is in fact Fruit Vendor. Yet, he's still hesitant.

If Teproc is VT, then saying he thought about the claiming thing and then getting things messed up seems unlikely to me. Why would he say that? He knew some of the results of someone claiming, namely that scum would know which setup was rolled. But the IC part that faust laid out for him he missed. Basically he knew what would happen if a PR became known for scum but not for town. Not even why town would want to claim. And saying he "thought about that as well" while seemingly only having thought about it from a scum perspective seems... Not like something a VT would really do.

Oh, I see.  That is a better point than I thought. 

5406
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M75: Cupcake Mafia (Day 1)
« on: February 04, 2016, 09:27:45 am »
Vote: Gkrieg

5407
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M75: Cupcake Mafia (Day 1)
« on: February 04, 2016, 09:26:15 am »
A few things

Um, because you are pulling a reinoe on your scum partners? I would have done the same thing (banned you from my games).

I don't think this is the same at all. I think he'd either be replaced or the game would be restarted. Since this is a game-deciding rule change that has been deployed right after the game started, it'd be annoying but fair.

The Lekkit case is... very inaccurate I think. I completely disagree with everything. I was going to say doing such a case is scummy, but other people agree, so I don't know what to think. They can't all be scum... or can they?

In yuma's reread of faust I think there was a point if misunderstanding. faust commented on every post - often it was just saying 'this is XX' without judging it, but yuma treated it as if every 'this is XX' comment also implied 'this is bad'.

I agree with the consent that faust is town based on all this. Teproc is also town for his slip and a bit because of Lekkit's case.

RR is being super anti town. vote: RR and stop joking about being scum. try to play for your win con please. Unless you are scum, then you should play against your win con.

I think very inaccurate cases are from town more often than scum.  Also, bad cases are better than no cases. 

5408
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M75: Cupcake Mafia (Day 1)
« on: February 04, 2016, 09:20:42 am »
I like Lekkit's argument for scum!Teproc, but WW you say you don't. What makes you think he's wrong?

Teproc has not been just "watching the fireworks".  Aside from the theory/setup/debate talk, he has been actively looking at players.  In particular, the move to Hydrad sounds more like town!Teproc than scum!Teproc.

5409
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M75: Cupcake Mafia (Day 1)
« on: February 04, 2016, 08:18:54 am »
Looking back some, pretty sure Lekkit is wrong about Teproc.

5410
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M75: Cupcake Mafia (Day 1)
« on: February 04, 2016, 08:17:54 am »
What?  ???

That's what I thought too, but does that really make yuma scummy?

Yes. Whenever I think "What? ???", it makes that person scummy.

Ah, so you're explaining your vote.  That solves it, Awaclus has to be scum.

Really, I'm being dead serious here. If I was scum, I would have /outted immediately upon seeing the rule clarification.

As problematic as that is, I actually don't feel like lynching you this game. 

5411
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M75: Cupcake Mafia (Day 1)
« on: February 04, 2016, 08:15:49 am »
Well Fruit Vendor only occurs if they have JOAT/Roleblocker or Rolecop/2-Shot Strongman...

So ... all the other ones. Right ?

I don't think it's likely to be a fakeclaim for reasons outlined above, but it's a "safe fakeclaim" in most setups.

No. Take, for instance, a setup where scum has JOAT/Goon. One of those setups has a Tracker, and one has a Commuter, both roles that cannot appear together with Fruit Vendor. So if scum were to claim Fruit Vendor, they would immediately get countered. You can go through all scenarios and see that there will always be the chance of a counterclaim.

Good thing Faust is here to do work so I don't have to. 

5412
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M75: Cupcake Mafia (Day 1)
« on: February 04, 2016, 08:14:04 am »
What?  ???

That's what I thought too, but does that really make yuma scummy?

Yes. Whenever I think "What? ???", it makes that person scummy.

Ah, so you're explaining your vote.  That solves it, Awaclus has to be scum.

5413
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M75: Cupcake Mafia (Day 1)
« on: February 04, 2016, 08:11:34 am »
I think faust gets townier. I don't think he goes to all this trouble as scum. He might hope it gets the old "town v town, let's move on" treatment, but I don't know, I think his yuma reread was too aggressive to come from scum, as I don't buy the "riling up" argument.

I don't think this is true at all, regarding the 'goes through all this trouble' thing.

5414
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M75: Cupcake Mafia (Day 1)
« on: February 04, 2016, 08:09:44 am »
I'm pretty sure what that all boils down to is:

Town: ADK, Lekkit

Null: Everyone

5415
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M75: Cupcake Mafia (Day 1)
« on: February 04, 2016, 08:09:10 am »
I'm going preliminary town on Lekkit.

Yuma seems like Yuma and not town! or scum! Yuma.  I also have no experience catching scum!Yuma.  Votes on him seem uninspired though.

Faust could go either way.  Also, Faust you shouldn't leave this game.. emotions are going to come up as we're all basically arguing with each other, or at least on the verge of it.  Some people's style (intentional or not) is to be more passionate, so these things happen.

I voted Egor because I thought this vote was bad:

Hm, ok

Vote: yuma

You said yourself in recent game that you was mislynched once. Now you say that you are easy to be manipulated into self destruction?

I still do.  The question there was also serves as explanation for the vote, but why is Yuma scummy because of it?  I had also originally thought it was odd that Egor suddenly changed votes (he doesn't often 'vote around' a lot), but looking back I see it was because he thought Silver was counterclaiming ADK.  So, maybe not a lot there.

RR is a coin toss, as usual.  Chairs I don't have anything from. 

Hydrad seems like normal Hydrad, but that's become a non-alignment indicator. 

ADK I don't want to lynch.  I also still haven't looked up what Fruit Vendor does.  Even in a case where scum knows its a safe claim (I haven't checked myself to see if that's possible), I'm not sure scum!ADK is the kind of player that does this.  Though we've had a string of early town claims lately.

Gkrieg I don't remember much from.

I'm not sure about Lekkit's last point against Teproc (regarding counterclaiming).. at most I see that it implies Teproc does not have a PR that can counterclaim ADK; I don't see where the rest comes from.  He also claims Teproc is kind of posting without contributing.  I'm not really sure if this is true or not.  Nothing Teproc has done so far has made me want to reaction-vote him.

5416
With Trader in hand and Stonemason in the supply, you can pay $4 for three Silvers.

With Watchtower in hand and Feodum in the supply, you can pay $4 for three Silvers. 

5417
Mafia Game Threads / Re: The "QT issue"
« on: February 03, 2016, 02:41:35 pm »
Well then this has been a productive conversation!

5418
Mafia Game Threads / Re: The "QT issue"
« on: February 03, 2016, 02:35:44 pm »
Just that you can say "no one" instead of "no-one".  I'd say it's preferable, but there are probably camps that disagree.

5419
Mafia Game Threads / Re: The "QT issue"
« on: February 03, 2016, 02:14:50 pm »
I believe the main issue people have is the gratuitous hyphen use in 'no-one'.

So your point is that you don't trust everyone to be play fair?

Not sure if joking....

not joking

Well, I was.

5420
Mafia Game Threads / Re: The "QT issue"
« on: February 03, 2016, 02:10:51 pm »
I believe the main issue people have is the gratuitous hyphen use in 'no-one'.

So your point is that you don't trust everyone to be play fair?

Not sure if joking....

5421
Mafia Game Threads / Re: The "QT issue"
« on: February 03, 2016, 01:54:37 pm »
I don't understand what's happening.

When I opened my RMM, I made this rule

Quote
- It is not allowed to quote from QTs, nor is it allowed to use a substitute in order to quote from (this does not include writing posts somewhere else with the intention of posting them later). Paraphrasing is acceptable. Since this rule is exploitable, I hope that no-one tries to do so.

How does this not solve everything? Why does anyone want to do anything other than puting an equivalent of this rule in the basic rule set and then move on? That's  all we need to do, and the issue is closed. The rule is exploitable, who cares, no-one is going to exploit it, everyone knows what the intent is. I don't understand why no-one sees how easy it is.

I believe the main issue people have is the gratuitous hyphen use in 'no-one'.

5422
Mafia Game Threads / Re: The "QT issue"
« on: February 03, 2016, 12:05:15 pm »
I think it absolutely will, and it will be very hard for scum to deal with it. Both people who don(t need to do it (like Awaclus) and people like me, simply because it will create ICs. I don't think it's easy to fake. People will try, of course they will, but I think they'll get caught.

If I'm wrong, then yes, this is a non-issue.

I kind of think we'll end up mislynching a true town because we think he's trying to fake it.

5423
Mafia Game Threads / Re: The "QT issue"
« on: February 03, 2016, 12:04:23 pm »
I did have in the back of my head as I was posting in the personal QT that I might end up posting it (I didn't know if it was allowed or not).  I was already worrying  that people would feel it was constructed as scum to make my claim more believable.  And it kind of was constructed, since I did know that I just justify myself at least to Yuma and people reading afterwards, even if I didn't end up posting it.  I think everything I did regarding the claim could have been easily able to construct as scum.  The reads on other players and those thoughts are probably what indicated towniness. 

5424
Mafia Game Threads / Re: The "QT issue"
« on: February 03, 2016, 11:53:56 am »
But look, I think this is a completely avoidable issue.

If I asked Awaclus to post his QT and he said he didn't post anything in it, I would in no way think he's more likely to be scum than town.  I expect both town and scum Awaclus to not do it.

If Teproc comes out and says "it's too much work to keep doing, I didn't post extensively", that's completely believable and not an alignment indicator either.

After all, meta is everything.

The counter here is that the lack of a "super townie QT dump" prohibits giving a strong town read, but it doesn't in its own right give a higher scum read.  The problem from scum's perspective is that town players can suddenly become super townie and unlynchable, but as we've said, we only need one example of someone faking it to debunk that.  And we don't even need the example, because we've talked so much of faking it, we're going to start to get super suspicious of these things in the future.

5425
Mafia Game Threads / Re: The "QT issue"
« on: February 03, 2016, 11:35:43 am »
I don't see why it's even the honor system.  As the rules stand now, there is nothing that says I cannot precompile a post and copy it in at a later time, right?  I could even write the post directly in the browser and just leave the browser window open for days, even weeks* and then post it with "I typed this up last week" or something.

*Of course, you risk power outages, etc.

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