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Messages - jimjam

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151
Anyone want to test out Trader/Embargo opening? I banned myself from playing for the semester.
On a big money Kingdom and your opponent doesn't open trader you should be set.

What's your thought?  Embargo Silver and Embargo Trader so that your opponent can't just mirror you?  I suspect it's not likely enough that you'll get your Embargos before your opponent sneaks in enough Silver to get to Gold.  And if necessary, he can suck up one Curse to get Trader even after you've Embargoed it.

The idea is that the embargo helps you get more silvers.

edit: Bah, actually it would probably be easier to just use hamlet or pawn.

152
Anyone want to test out Trader/Embargo opening? I banned myself from playing for the semester.
On a big money Kingdom and your opponent doesn't open trader you should be set.

153
BV+ Lab or Market+ Bishop would be pretty deadly I think.

154
Dominion Articles / Re: Gardens and Embargo
« on: October 08, 2011, 02:46:59 am »
It's all good, it was a lengthy discussion for just a little speculation on my part.

I think emptying embargoes is definitely not a go-to strategy.
But open 1 embargo, block gardens. Lose one turn, one card, to probably keep all of the gardens. Seems like a good deal to me.
2-3 to also hit gold/province? Maybe, maybe not.
If your opponent reacts emotionally and starts raining embargoes on estate, copper, enablers, THEN emptying embargoes is a solid choice.

155
Dominion Articles / Re: Gardens and Embargo
« on: October 03, 2011, 09:47:59 pm »
I rather like ironworks for garden myself, though I've never been able to test it against somebody who actually tried to counter the gardens rush. One of theory's articles puts down baron and ironworks, since you can't double open them or buy them as easily. Ironworks/Embargo may be a good opening in that case.

I'm not too sure about Pawn. Presumably if you are buying Pawns or Hamlets you will be trying to get multiple buys with them, and that means copper.

156
Dominion Articles / Gardens and Embargo
« on: October 03, 2011, 09:07:13 pm »
Let's say you have gardens and embargo in the set. The four plausible enablers of a gardens rush (I would put Market, Hoard as mid or late game gardens, and card such as hamlet and pawn are not enough for rushing) would be Workshop, Ironworks, Woodcutter, and Baron. It's debatable whether the $4s can actually be used effectively on their own.
Anyways, if it is the case that you are gardens rushing with the first two, then embargo may work to your benefit:
Obviously one may choose to embargo $5-8 kingdom cards (and gold and province), but perhaps the most important to embargo may be gardens.
Because your opponent will presumably get less gardens, and is aiming for a cleaner deck, they will be slowed down by garden buys much more than you will, especially if you are using workshops or ironworks as the primary way to get gardens. Moreover if you (or they) have played more than one embargo you may be able to count on curses being emptied if they do choose to buy gardens.
The opponent's usage of embargo might be workshops, coppers, or estates.
The first is not too effective, since you can just gain them with workshops.
The second one is more problematic, since you may not want to take on a large amount of curses early on. In that case it is probably best to not buy coppers, and count cards near the end.
The third is also not so effective. If the opponent does it late game you may have bought enough estates that a couple of curses will not affect much; if they do it early game then you might switch to buying embargoes, which should lead to a fast three pile ending (gardens, embargoes, curses). Of course, they could embargo the embargoes...

I haven't tested this out, unfortunately. Thoughts?

157
Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Big hands [lol]
« on: September 16, 2011, 02:04:49 pm »
my original solution was incorrect, however a revised one gets over 3000 cards without using any duration cards besides outpost

158
Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Big hands [lol]
« on: August 31, 2011, 02:14:27 pm »
Depth/Breadth first doesn't change anything. Even a number like 1.01010101.... doesn't correspond to any Possession play because each Possession play has a finite distance from the root. A binary tree is completely countable. The number of different branches are uncountable, but not Possession plays. However, many branches do not correspond to a Possession play (all the ones that continue infinitely).

159
Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Big hands [lol]
« on: August 31, 2011, 05:23:41 am »
Yeah, in the beginning I removed that constraint.

160
Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Big hands [lol]
« on: August 31, 2011, 04:55:59 am »
Ignoring 10/11 piles rule:


First turn
-30 Possession(using a TR and 5KC)
-outpost
Outpost turn
30 Possession (TR, 5KC)
10 Tacticians gives 50 cards
9 Caravans gives 9 cards
TR->4 KC on 8 wharves gives 48 cards
TR->1 more wharf gives 4 cards
5TR on havens gives 10 cards
4 more havens gives 4 cards

First Possession turn (the hardest)
masquerade 5 KC, giving 5 HT,
attack, which gives 10 cards. Their hand is empty.
masquerade a HT/attack 3 times, giving 6 cards.
university the last CR.
TR->5KC->30 CR. They draw the last HT and a moat, and a possession.
ambassador away the possession; play HT to get 2, use moat to keep the possession in the supply.
play outpost

29 cards in hand,+30*61 more turns gives 1859 cards, + 9 tortures at some point.
=
2011 cards.

Choice points: An extra tactician gets you 5, a TR wharf gets you 4, and two havens gets you 2. Instead, an extra KC will get you 6 on the last wharf, 3 on one haven, and the saved TR use on a different haven, yielding 2.
Using one less TR on the havens allows you to do the masquerade trick for the last HT, which again is a tie.


Edit: There is one more trick I just realized. Hint: It is almost as good as CR.

161
Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Big hands [lol]
« on: August 31, 2011, 04:15:02 am »
Not really. This is a bijection to the natural numbers: 1-30 are the first 30 possession plays. 31-60 are the 30 possession plays of your first possession, 931-960 are the 30 possession plays of your first possession of your first possession play.
ie in base 30, the first(rightmost) digit is the root, the second digit is its children, the third digit are their children, etc.

In fact if you could play an infinite amount of possessions per turn, but only sequentially, it would still be countable.
Here's an inefficient ordering: count the first possession to depth 1. Then count 2 possessions per turn to depth 2.
1,4,27,256... For any finite depth or possession plays per turn eventually you will count it.

Edit: There's no good way to get uncountable turns, except something like "Take an extra turn for every subset of the natural numbers".

162
Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Big hands [lol]
« on: August 30, 2011, 08:00:00 pm »
It would only be countable because you can associate each time you play a card with a number.

You guys got a lot of the tricks. I still have to put it together, but this is my game plan...

If you play possession on your opponent's turn then it will not give you more turns to play council room, it will cause him to possess you, which will not help you, but not hurt you either. So 62 turns (POPPPPP.....N), where P=possessed, O= outpost, and N=normal is the best.
Use TR on the first KC in order to get the full 30 possessions; the other 4-5 can be used on Wharf (the tradeoff is such that you can either go with 10 KC or 10 Tactician and I think you will get the same yield).

Possession/CR is the main trick.

Masquerade is useful for several reasons:
-Move the KCs over, which is efficient.
-Grab the possessions so you can ambassador 2 (or use moat with 1), so that you can grab 10 CR without ending the game before your final turn
-If you can empty your hand with Horse Traders you can get an additional free card by masquerading, attacking, masquerading, etc.

Golem/Tactician/Caravan is the other part.

1 Torturer is fine, since you only need to play it 9 times throughout the 62 turns.
The 10 kingdom card restraint is kind of annoying because then we have to budget actions and cards (cards is less of an issue with scrying pool).
Off the top of my head:
You need many of:
Tactician
KC
Caravan
Golem
Council Room
Masquerade (can be bane card)
Wharf
Possession
Black Market (well, you need 1)

Horse Traders and TR are probably the best to put in. Unfortunately you might have trouble using all of the TR since you might not get to hit all Caravans if you're comboing with Tactician/Golem, and Haven is not listed.
Some cards that are helpful in the BM deck are:
Outpost (2 would be nicer, but you can masquerade it)
Scrying pool (2 would be nicer to help draw everything for both players)
Villages/Tourney
YW (Bane)
Haven (Would like more, but not enough piles)
Ambassador (Possession/Council Room changeover)
Torturer
Some attacks that don't give curses

163
Puzzles and Challenges / Big hands [lol]
« on: August 30, 2011, 03:42:26 am »
The objective here is to obtain the largest hand (or attempt to draw as many cards as possible) in a turn possible without playing any actions on that turn. Duration cards are an obvious contributor, what else? How many can you get? The game will still end on 3-piles, but for simplicity assume if you have no cards you may add infinite blank cards to your deck at any time. It is a 2 player game and your opponent will help you achieve your goal.

164
General Discussion / Re: Dominion intrudes on real life
« on: July 11, 2011, 08:00:23 pm »
Sometimes when I'm tired in the morning I think I can't get up because I don't have any actions left.

165
Yes, I agree with ackack. To elaborate some:

With regards to Garfield's example (I don't know what else he said about it) and in general:
Yes, luck and strategy are not mutually exclusive; games with luck have a lot to offer that games without luck don't. But sometimes the luck is just not constructive to the strategy, and takes away from it.

-To reiterate what ackack is saying, strategy is qualitatively similar for Chess/Dice to Chess, but it plays a lesser role than in Chess, because the game may not be determined based on strategy.
-I say similar because it encourages the less skilled player to adopt stalling tactics, which may take some consideration to figure out, but overall would not contribute much to the game-perfection of such a strategy yields a little less than 50% victory rate.
-It happens to give the first player an advantage, since he rolls first. This is a nitpick though, a similar example (a single dice is rolled before the game and 5-6 give the victory to one or the other) would solve this and the above criticism. Though then this example would not line up with BM as well.
-It's just kind of annoying when somebody has a lucky win (and for me sometimes unsatisfying, once I bought a possession with my first black market; at one point I had resolved to trash it with a bishop but I had to masquerade away my bishop or something). Especially if they act like it was some genius move to do so.

In any case I think BM can be fun if there are nice cards like caravan or hunting party that are handy but not dominating.

166
Quote
Sure it's luck based on what is turned up, but that doesn't mean that it also isn't strategic on the decision to both buy Black Market and the decision to choose to buy the revealed cards or not.
This entire game has elements of luck in it, but that doesn't mean the game isn't strategic.
The more luck, the less strategy. If a mountebank comes up and I have enough money (which may be based on luck early game), it doesn't take an expert to see what to do, yet an expert will probably not be able to win against me, unless i mess things up royally.

Is it strategy to buy a card saying "Trash this card. Flip a coin, heads you win,tails you lose"? I had to make the decision to buy the card...

167
It's not strategy to buy a good card from the BM.

168
Dominion General Discussion / Re: How do you play this?
« on: July 05, 2011, 03:12:39 am »
I'd go Torturer/Nobles with one Tactician until Nobles were empty, then Goons/Peddler? I don't know if that would be right though.

169
Has to be hamlet.  Yes, the other cards actually make you lose the game, but hamlet spam is worse than even pawn AP. I even annoy myself when I use hamlet. Plus when my opponent so slowly cycles through his multiple hamlets every turn, I end up making decisions on the basis of ending the game as soon as possible, rather than the highest chance of victory.

170
Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Fun with Ironworks
« on: June 28, 2011, 12:09:41 am »
Yeah, that was my solution. Though you can grab an island instead of the estate, that gets you 22. Or instead of duchies, a province and 4 islands, which again is 22.

171
Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Fun with Ironworks
« on: June 25, 2011, 06:15:42 am »
Holy crap! My solution was entirely different. It's weaker than your guys, but its


1. Mining Village
2. TMap
3. TMap
4. Scout
5. Remodel
6. GH (Reshuffle)
7,8,9:GH

Mining Village->Trash, draw last action
Scout->Put 4 GH in hand
TMaps->4 Golds
Draw 4 Golds with GH
Remodel a Gold to Province
Buy Colony (Mining Village+3 golds)

172
Puzzles and Challenges / Fun with Ironworks
« on: June 24, 2011, 05:32:47 pm »
Starting with 9 ironworks in hand, and nothing in discard/deck, get a Colony and a Province in this one turn.
Related: How many VP can you get with 8 ironworks?


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