Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length

Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.

Messages - Donald X.

Filter to certain boards:

Pages: 1 ... 211 212 [213] 214 215 ... 248
5301
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Interview with Donald X.
« on: December 16, 2012, 03:56:45 pm »
In previous answers in this thread you have expressed a preference for fast games and also a dislike for games that eliminate players 'with hours to play'.  Are these two philosophies related?
They aren't.

Fast games are good because there are more opportunities to play them, players get more of a chance to win a game over the evening, and you get more variety of experiences over your evening.

Eliminating players with a substantial amount of game left is bad because you leave them with nothing to do. I guess it's getting kind of late. Maybe I'll just go home. It's fine in an online game, where I can just go off and start another game somewhere; it's awful for anything to be played at a kitchen table.

I obv. don't think player elimination is always bad; I think it's fine if there isn't much game left. It's entertaining seeing how things play out in Gauntlet of Fools, and doesn't take long. And the threat of elimination can be a fun thing. In Risk though, well, thanks for having me over. I'll see myself out.

Do you think any long game (let's say typically more than 1.5 hours per game) is destined to either have a fairly dull and meaningless early game or be forced to eliminate players early?
No.

Are there any 'long games' out there that you think successfully walk the fine line between giving players meaningful strategic choices all through the game, while at the same time keeping as many players as possible 'in contention' until the later stages?
Staying in contention isn't an issue. It has to be fun to lose! And if it is then it's okay not to be in contention. You can start a game of Scrabble knowing you have no chance of winning - the other player is just way better at anagramming than you. That doesn't stop you from having fun anagramming though. That would be true even if Scrabble took twice as long (although, being so homogeneous, it's just as well that it doesn't).

Some people may make games faster as a way to avoid eliminating players while minimizing how much time you spend knowing you've lost. I just make fast games because I like fast games.

5302
Rules Questions / Re: Are Curse gains from Embargo tokens separate events?
« on: December 15, 2012, 01:38:23 pm »
Let's say the Province pile has 2 Embargo tokens on it. If I have a Haggler in play and I buy a Province, could I gain a Curse, gain a Gold from the Haggler, then gain the other Curse?
No. Embargo triggers once, giving you a pile of Curses.

5303
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Interview with Donald X.
« on: December 15, 2012, 01:33:44 pm »
At the end of the Cornucopia Secret History, you talk about three cards that went to a "later set": a "popular" card, an Attack card, and one that was in both Intrigue and Alchemy.  What were these cards?
The popular card is Jack of All Trades. The attack is in Guilds. The card from Intrigue/Alchemy is Madman.

5304
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Interview with Donald X.
« on: December 15, 2012, 01:28:45 pm »
If a friend has a newly released game and puts it on the table, who's name as the game designer would get you most eager to play?
In the 90s, Reiner Knizia and Richard Garfield were the two I was most likely to buy new games from. These days I might pick Vlaada Chvatil; I do not have much experience with his games, so this isn't due to that; but from reading the descriptions, they are the ones I am most interested in.

5305
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Interview with Donald X.
« on: December 15, 2012, 01:24:31 pm »
Sort of a follow up: What is your favorite charity or cause that you like to (financially) support?

If there could be a Donald X Fund for X, what would the second X be and why?
We donate some tiny amount to utterly conventional charities. My interaction with it is just recycling the junk mail they then send you. If one of them doesn't mock your contribution by spending some of it on junk mail, I pick that one.

This isn't the forum for political talk, so take it there if you must, but one cause I especially care about is uh well it might be called "voting reform," although if you're doing it right it's not really "voting." Voting is a poor way to get from "what people want" to "what they get." "Choosing" is much better. [Consider 10 friends who get together once a month and eat out; how should they determine the restaurant?] Voting reform is top-level for me because so much other stuff that you might try to accomplish goes through governments. So I want to fix that system first.

5306
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Interview with Donald X.
« on: December 15, 2012, 12:58:51 pm »
What goes in to writing those flavour paragraphs?
For the main set, they had an awful "impress the king" thing they put in as a placeholder. Man. Impress the king. You don't need to acquire land to impress anyone - it's its own reward. So I wrote up a replacement intro, which then got hacked up to be less conversational and therefore slightly less funny. It was still better than what they'd had so okay (the later ones mostly escaped editing).

For Intrigue I thought, oops, now I have to write another funny intro. I wrote it very quickly though, it was effortless.

For Seaside I sat down to work on a list of jokes to turn into a paragraph. You can see that in detail at http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=124.0.

For Alchemy I again worked on a list of jokes. It didn't turn out as well as I'd hoped, but people seemed to like the main jokes, phew. For Prosperity, another list, this one turned out well. The baklava statue was originally a piece of pumice that looked like the pope, but not enough people got that joke. For Cornucopia I didn't do as well and then Jay cut the jesters fighting to the death, which was one of the main jokes. The roast hay doesn't carry the paragraph but well it turns out these things don't loom large in my life afterwards, hooray.

For Hinterlands I wrote down, "The world is big and your kingdom small," fitting the faraway lands theme, and then immediately thought of a joke from one of my screenplays, that started, "It's a big city out there, and we're little people. I mean little when compared to the city..." So I just copied that with the words changed, and the rest was easy except for what concept exactly for them not even to have a word for, which I picked a day or two later, although I think mamihlapinatapai was immediately in the running.

For Dark Ages I wrote one paragraph the usual way. It wasn't as good as I wanted and I wrote a completely new one, then merged them.

What gave you the idea for doing secret histories?
There was a BoardGameNews preview of Dominion. I was asked a bunch of questions, but whereas most people would just post my answers, W. Eric Martin kind of hacked it up. There would be one sentence quoting me, and then two sentences describing what I said. This made it a little less accurate, but I corrected the thing I cared most about in a comment on it, and hey W. Eric has to have fun too. Anyway that article was about the game and he also asked about the outtakes (which I barely said anything about), but it didn't cover the cards in the set. And there was stuff to say there. So I wrote up an article and posted it on BGG, which didn't have an article.

These days BGN is no more, and BGG has "designer diaries." I stuck with the Secret Histories though. I feel like they're plenty visible to the people that want to see them, and I don't want to be too in-your-face with them.

What are your thoughts, if any, about "classic" board games (chess, go, or even things like risk, stratego, monopoly)?
I will just cover those five.

Chess: Chess has two huge flaws. First, for new players, it's hard to even see what the pieces can do. You have to remember how all the pieces move and then consider how they would all interact with any potential move. Second, you can potentially see many moves in advance, perfectly. Only, you personally, you cannot do that, because it's too hard. You aren't looking ten moves ahead and therefore you're playing suboptimally. I guess you're just stupid, Chess tells you. Chess magnifies this due to the way the game works; it's not just perfect information, it's perfect information and small differences can get blown up. At one point I made a game in the Chess family. People would ask me about Magic, and I would say, well suppose we were going to play Chess, only we each brought half of the board and pieces. You've got knights and pawns and so forth, but I've got archers and pikemen, and half of my board is under water. After using this analogy a few times, I thought, I should make that game. And I made a game and well, it was way too hard to even see what the pieces could do.

Go: Go is also perfect information but somehow does not seem as flawed in that way as chess, in addition of course to not making you remember how the pieces work and stuff. I've barely gotten to play it. It was interesting. I guess I'm more interested in it in terms of implications than as a game to play. It's cool that like a piece in the middle of nowhere is doing good work for you.

Risk: Risk (the old version, not whatever goes by that name today) is perhaps the game I most often use as a bad example. In Risk, the better you're doing, the more fun you get to have; the worse you're doing, the less you get to do. It's like if in Scrabble, the player in last place only got 3 letters to work with. In Risk all losers look identical - they all have nothing. No-one has any interest in seeing that position but the winner. Risk eliminates players with hours left in the game. It's heavily political. Having a map of the world with armies in the countries is great, but that's all it's got.

Stratego: The premise is cute. I've played but don't really remember it.

Monopoly: I think people take the wrong lesson away from Monopoly. Monopoly is a bad game, because it gives you pointless decisions and lasts a random huge amount of time and eliminates players with hours left in the game and is political. But Monopoly is also a successful game, perhaps because it's filled with fun things - you roll dice and draw cards and see what you get, you get stuff that's yours that goes in front of you, you build up your stuff. On anyone else's turn you might get paid. People focused on cashing in on Monopoly by making more roll-and-move games (yes they predate Monopoly but don't you think?), so that roll-and-move (a completely reasonable mechanic) has all these negative connotations now, when the real direction to go in was more games of building up your stuff. Settlers is more or less a fixed Monopoly - you roll dice and draw cards, you get stuff that's yours, both on the board and in your hand, you build up your stuff, you trade, you get paid when it's not your turn. But it's fast and doesn't eliminate players and isn't full of pointless decisions. It's still political of course.

5307
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Interview with Donald X.
« on: December 15, 2012, 12:26:41 pm »
Was Rats always your favourite card?
No, Rats does not even predate me showing the game to RGG.

It was a while before I felt like I had to consider what might be my favorite card, and your tastes change over time. In the early days I was especially fond of Pawn and Upgrade.

5308
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Interview with Donald X.
« on: December 14, 2012, 05:22:54 pm »
Do you consider yourself as having a "game design philosophy"?
Well in general I aim for short games, with low downtime, minimized politics, variety, and interacting rules on cards.

An example of an overall philosophy would be, it has to be fun to lose.

Do you think of your games as related by some unifying theme?  Or are they just random areas of design that you wanted to explore?
There were two big areas I explored when I first started seriously designing games.

First there were, games where the rules change. This comes from Magic; I loved how the game could work so differently from game to game. I seriously mapped out this space. The rules can change once per game, once per turn, or somewhere in-between; they can be rules the players make up, or that the players build inside the game, or they can come pre-built. In the end it turns out the best approach is, they change once per game and are all pre-built. I made a lot of games coming to this conclusion though, and then more games just doing it.

The other area was game theory. I read about game theory in the William Poundstone book Prisoner's Dilemma, and thought, but wait, games don't do this stuff (yes some do). So I made games with simultaneous decisions that would often be dilemmas. You don't just automatically get a dilemma; you can aim for more or fewer dilemmas. Simultaneous decisions are great eight ways from Sunday and that was the biggest thing that came out of this. A typical game of mine has simultaneous decisions.

These days I am doing more turn-based games, and trying to do stuff with boards, but I haven't forgotten my roots.

A third area I've focused on is building stuff; especially, assembling combos.

How would you describe the process for you, from initial seed of an idea to final game?
I either randomly have an idea, or find it by working through possibilities looking for the good ones.

Then months or years go by, while I try to convince myself that the idea is actually worth making the game for. Maybe a particular flaw will be obvious and I won't want to make a prototype until I've fixed it. This stage is the biggest hurdle.

When I finally make a prototype, I play it with whoever will have me and then decide whether to work on it more based on how it goes. If it doesn't go well, probably I drop it immediately, and maybe come back to it months or years later.

If it goes well then it becomes a regular game that I play. I'll put a bunch of work into it and then it will coast along and I'll gradually tweak it.

Then I have to consider whether or not to submit it to a publisher, and who to send it to. This is another significant hurdle, unless a particular publisher wanted the game already, or wants games in general.

If I don't get anywhere with publishers then probably at some point I focus on the game a little more, improve it slightly. This could happen multiple times.

If I find a publisher then we interact over the contract, and then there's a delay in which they are committed to the game but nothing is happening. Maybe I work on it some more, although this work isn't as good because it's not automatically in - anything I change before a publisher sees it, that's all just up to me, but once the publisher has it, maybe they will disagree with my change. I might have to convince them of it or something. Or not, but you know. Get your changes in before the publisher has it, that's my advice.

The publisher may or may not work on the game, I mean probably they do but not always. If they do it probably involves me - they say, we don't like this, we want this change, and I fix it or replace it or argue about it or what have you. I will repeatedly try to make sure I will see the rulebook in time to proofread it. They might show me sketches or finished art or might not.

I write up an article to post when the game is in stores, and work on other things. If the game has expansions, or expansions are wanted, I work on those things as a new general project, but maybe there aren't any. When the game comes out, I read about it on the internet.

5309
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Interview with Donald X.
« on: December 14, 2012, 04:42:53 pm »
If time and money were no concern, what would you most like to be doing right now?
Well they aren't really a concern, and here I am. Money hits these thresholds; if I had twice as much money I would get a nicer house but that might be the only change. I would like that nicer house, don't get me wrong, but you know. I don't like to travel, I don't want a boat. There aren't activities that are expensive that I want to do; there aren't material possessions I want that I can't have. At some level of wealth I might hire people; I dunno, that's a job, interacting with those people.

Did you ever imagine an alternative career for yourself, outside of ability?  Like becoming a rock star, or an astronaut, or football player?
As a kid I wanted to be a writer; then I wanted to be someone who worked on D&D products. Then I wanted to design computer games. I seriously pursued screenwriting at one point, if it counts as serious if you don't submit stuff anywhere, and I've written songs, although a whole rock star career, I dunno. Hunter / gatherer doesn't sound so bad; the hours are short, and you can pee almost anywhere.

5310
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Interview with Donald X.
« on: December 14, 2012, 12:49:02 pm »
Did you ever consider a card that had some sort of silly mechanic, like "Keep this card on top of your head for as long as you can" or "do ten jumping jacks" or something like that?
No. There could be a silly promo but I don't think people would like it as much as a non-silly one.

5311
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Interview with Donald X.
« on: December 14, 2012, 10:11:09 am »
Any advice for getting a Mother who has honestly no interest in board games hooked on Dominion? (Base only)

Would you consider a Curse-X card but instead it being called Black Magic? (To be casted by Black Mage ;) )
If a new Curse-like card doesn't have the Curse type, it avoids the ambiguity problem but still has the other problems I explained.

The question would be how to get her to play; after that, it's up to her and Dominion. Uh, man, I don't know her. I have no great ideas here.

5312
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Interview with Donald X.
« on: December 13, 2012, 09:43:09 pm »
I think I remember you saying that when people were comparing Thief and Noble Brigand, and why would you ever buy Thief if NB was also in the Kingdom. In my mind that applies to the lists in that you giving specific comments on cards' rankings would be calling one card better than another, which I think you avoided in the Thief/NB discussion.
Well Noble Brigand is better in general, just not always better. That should be clear to you guys though, I mean most cards are better than Thief so why wouldn't Noble Brigand be?

5313
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Interview with Donald X.
« on: December 13, 2012, 09:41:50 pm »
Is there a particular reason you haven't made an Action - Treasure card (as far as we know)?
Yes, because it would be too confusing. And the most compelling reason for making one is to have Ironworks etc. trigger off both things.

5314
Goko Dominion Online / Re: The Geiko Topic
« on: December 13, 2012, 02:06:52 pm »
    1) There is no adventure for it
I suppose the hold-up might be Trisha needing to write flavor, but I suspect that it's just, the system couldn't handle setting the bane for campaign levels. So the person typing in the card list was stuck and it's waiting on someone to add that.

5315
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Interview with Donald X.
« on: December 13, 2012, 01:56:24 pm »
Now that Guilds is around the corner as the last expansion for now, do you feel like the entire collection is pretty complete?

Are you happy with how the game ended up or are there some things you would have liked to do, but couldn't due to deadlines, complexity or publisher requests?
I have gone over at length all of the things I might have done differently: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=3179.msg56362#msg56362

I'm not sure I know what this "complete" feeling would be like, in order to compare my feelings to it. I don't sit around thinking, is Dominion complete or what. Anything that had seemed exciting but hadn't worked out but seemed like maybe it could somehow, I tried to fix up for Dark Ages, since that was going to be the last set. But it's not like you can't make more cards (they just get more complex etc.). So uh. Why would it ever feel "complete?" That doesn't seem to be in the nature of games with rules components.

The thing is I don't like being inaccurate; so some of these questions I just have to say, I don't relate to that. Dominion feels neither complete nor incomplete.

5316
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Interview with Donald X.
« on: December 13, 2012, 12:47:53 pm »
The 13 most recent cards that DXV has made are not guaranteed to be Guilds cards, though. For all we know, some of the Guilds cards have been around forever.
Guilds was going to come out ahead of Dark Ages, so Dark Ages got the last significant hunk of work. I think Rebuild was the last new card added, although the idea had been sitting in the file.

5317
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Interview with Donald X.
« on: December 13, 2012, 12:44:49 pm »
What do you think are the most overrated and underrated kingdom cards (using our card rankings as a reference)?
There are more casual players than serious players, and more people playing the main set than anything else. So, overall, the most overrated card is Thief, and the most underrated is Chapel. I am okay with telling you that.

I don't see how you don't see that me commenting on the card rankings you link to would be me giving strategy advice. That's okay though.

5318
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Interview with Donald X.
« on: December 13, 2012, 09:54:24 am »
How was the decision to allow up to 6 people made and is this something you regret?
I would have supported 2-5 in the main set and never added a 6th. In general game companies seem to support one more player than is sensible, though that's not always the case; I only play Nefarious with 5 or Kingdom Builder with 4, but I do play Gauntlet of Fools with 6. There is also some kind of attraction to adding a player or two in an expansion. So, I don't know Jay's actual reasons, but he wanted 2-4 in the main set and then going to six with Intrigue, and so that's what happened.

There's nothing to regret, it doesn't hurt me if people play with six. There are always people who want to play with one more player than is reasonable, which is maybe why game companies support it.

Do you regret "losing" 2 card slots (20 cards) in order to have so many Ruins?
No, it never felt like that and really whatever. Dark Ages was 500 cards, it didn't just fill up.

Randomizers cost each set 1-3 cards and are unnecessary (just use one card from each pile for your randomizer deck, adding them to the pile for playing, and as a bonus Black Market loses its setup). It's not like I "regret" that though.

5319
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Interview with Donald X.
« on: December 13, 2012, 09:16:48 am »
Village and Market were maybe the 2nd and 3rd action cards I made; they were inherent in the game premise.

That of course raises the obvious question which card was the fourth...

And the first.
In the early days I did not keep everything - I put new cards in the image files where dead cards had been. The oldest sheet of cards goes "Dungeon," Village, Market, Smithy. I know Dungeon and Smithy weren't in game one, and that Village and Market (in worse forms) were. Mine is next and was in game one, so it was probably the 5th card. You can read more about these pages at http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=5905.0.

5320
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Interview with Donald X.
« on: December 13, 2012, 09:14:20 am »
How about a Curse pile that replaces the original Curse pile kind of like how Shelters replace your starting Estates.
Setup instructions could be analogous to Colony and Shelters: In games using X Attack cards, have an X in 10 chance of replacing the original Curse pile with the alternative Curse pile. Not all Attack cards dish out Curses and not all games without Attacks are Curse-less, but you need a way to determine some chance of using them.

Would this way of replacing the Curse pile have been viable? More so than adding another Curse pile? By the time Dark Ages came around we were used to all kinds of setup instructions and edge cases, so I don't see a problem with discarding a Curse - Treasure to Mountebank. It's not much different from Fortune Teller putting a Great Hall on top.
The crucial difference is, Curse is named Curse. There is no card named Action or Victory. When a card says Curse, does it mean the card with that name or a card with that type? It's ambiguous. I don't need you to care about this but I do. And I knew this was an issue with giving Curse that type, I just didn't have a better type for it or a reason it was going to matter. It was originally "token." Of course if it were still "token," you wouldn't be changing what Witch did by making a new "token," since Witch would still say "Curse."

Cards change how good other cards are. Witch isn't as good in games with Gardens and so on. So it's not strictly bad to have something that changes how good Witch is, although it's not exciting if it ends up, Witch sucks or is unbeatable. But whatever; is it worth 50 cards? The main set had a second Curse-like card originally, Confusion (a blank), and it was not worth the space it took, and that would have only been 30 cards.

You always have to weigh the cost vs. the benefits. Is it worth confusion and doing fewer kingdom cards in order to have a new card that Witch can give out? Man, no, it isn't.

5321
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Interview with Donald X.
« on: December 13, 2012, 08:07:09 am »
Can you explain once and for all why a "Curse - X" dualtype is a bad idea? Or if you think it CAN be done, what needs to be done to make it possible? Some extra setup instructions perhaps?
Since Curse is both a card name and a type, it would be confusing to have any more cards with the Curse type. It would create the question, what are Witch etc. referring to? Can I discard this to Mountebank? And even if you say "well it only makes sense that they did this if Witch can dish these out," whatever, yuck, it's awful. If I wanted more Curses, I had to make the type and name of Curse different back when.

Then consider the case where I want to add a new Curse so badly that I do it some other way. There's a Super Witch and it says (after a dividing line) "In games using this, when a player would gain a Curse, they instead gain a Super Curse." Let's say Super Curse is -2 VP. It is not a "Curse" so no problems there. It's clear whether or not you can discard one to Mountebank.

We have Super Witch and Witch in the same game. Well why buy Super Witch? Super Witch is balanced around Super Curse and Witch isn't. Witch is way better at dealing out Super Curses.

If Super Curse were comparable to Curse - just about as bad to get, no better no worse - then Super Witch wouldn't need to be weaker than Witch, and I could buy either card depending on other factors (you could also let the player choose which Curse they took, which makes all Cursing cards weaker but if it's not by much then why not). It is far from trivial to make Super Curse comparable to Curse though (aside from making it identical), and the less it matters which you get, the less exciting it is to do Super Curse in the first place.

Even if this all worked out, it wouldn't scale unless you got 50 Super Curses. What kind of expansion would have room for that many non-kingdom cards?

Finally there is Dark Ages. I went for it, I put in 50 Ruins, They are not as bad for you as Curses but the cards that give them out are balanced around that, with the existing cards that give out Curses still just giving out Curses in those games (albeit, Curses that hurt more because now you can get 20 dead cards, not considering Moat etc.). Dark Ages had 500 cards and it seemed like I could make room for Ruins. If there are more sets in the future, they won't have that space and anyway I did it already, it would be way less exciting the second time.

How did you arrive at the "1 Action, 1 Buy" principle?
Playing one action per turn is extremely simple and opens the door for making cards like Village and Spy (and less obviously, Remodel and Vault and Bank and Gardens). I value both of those things. I made a TCG that had you just play one action per turn, as part of an attempt to make an extremely mainstream TCG, and it worked great. So I already knew it was a fine direction to go in. I wanted something simple and went for it. It immediately worked well so that was that.

In my initial notes it was going to be that some cards let you buy cards, but that seemed bad once I thought about it. It had to be that you could just buy stuff. I didn't have Gardens etc. at that point and could have just let you buy multiple cards, but again I knew that limiting you to one card was simple and would let me make Market. Village and Market were maybe the 2nd and 3rd action cards I made; they were inherent in the game premise.

5322
Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: Gauntlet of Fools VI - The Belly of the Beast
« on: December 12, 2012, 08:54:35 pm »
I wondered if Donald X would be lurking in these game forums watching us enjoy one of his newest creations.
A few games were finished before I knew they were here.

Galzria: I haven't looked up the context, but you can use Wand after finishing the Cache turn, yes. And whatever you put first is what Extra Scary hits, unless of course you put another non-monster on top.

5323
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Interview with Donald X.
« on: December 12, 2012, 08:49:45 pm »
What's the weirdest fringe situation you learn about from playtesting broken cards, that we never experience? I'm guessing you have like ten pages of advice on what to do in games where, say, Gold is likely to run out, even though the rest of us have seen that situation about twice in our lives?
Most of what I learn from broken cards is how to avoid making broken cards. I'm not sure I have any advice for games where Gold runs out. Gold will run out if people aggressively pursue Gold-gaining cards, like Hoard or Tunnel; when it does, man, that's not so bad, you have plenty. Stop trying to gain Golds once they're gone, that's my advice. You have plenty of Silver if it runs out; you weren't planning on buying Copper anyway, except to boost Gardens or Goons or something in which case it's nevertheless okay that you can't. Sometimes you'll actually buy Curse because you are netting points, but man people know about that.

You can dodge Knights by sticking with just 5 cards in your deck and playing Remodels; they can beat that with Sir Michael though. If your deck is going to be really awful, get straight to the Duchies, don't waste time. One of my few games against real people on Goko, I won in part by going for Estates first; I guess it's fair to say that that did come from experience with broken cards, although also from experience with not-so-broken ones.

Similarly is there any sort of borderline-fringe stuff that you got good at because of playtesting, but you think it really helps you and maybe we should learn it? A few expansions ago I'd have said "Silver-based economies" as an example but I guess those have gotten pretty mainstream; we've all learned our lesson. Weird Duchy rushes or something like that, maybe?
I'm not really here to give strategy advice. I immediately think of one classic lesson that I think people take a long time to get, and it's like, man, why should I spoil that?

5324
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Interview with Donald X.
« on: December 12, 2012, 08:33:25 pm »
If you weren't known as "The guy who created Dominion", which of your other games would you most want to fill that space?
I'm not sure I exactly buy the premise - I don't know that I want all of my life achievements to be eclipsed by one particular achievement. If I go for it then a classic Donald X. game involves simultaneous play, cards with rules on them that interact, and variety from game to game, and takes about half an hour, with very little politics. There's an upcoming game from Queen that's like the quintessential one; of my published games, Nefarious is closest. But uh, like if we hypothesize that I really want to be known as "the guy with that one particular thing" then possibly that would go hand-in-hand with wanting to be known for whatever my most successful thing was.

5325
I didn't say as much about outtakes for the main set back when; it was material edited into a W. Eric Martin article on BGN, and anyway there were cards that might get fixed up for later sets. And I didn't say as much about the non-outtakes in the first secret history as I might have, because, how much did people really need to hear?

I made 10 cards. I don't remember what they all were. I wasn't preserving everything back then. One was Witch and one was a discard attack. Mine was in there. I had "+1 card +1 action +$1," "+2 actions," and "+1 buy," although nothing said "+1" like that, it was all written out. I had some kind of card-drawing, probably the next-turn one listed below. The first evening we just played the same 10 cards, but they weren't really the same because I tweaked the costs after each game. You mark the piles with dice indicating the current cost.

I made 10 more cards. Some were variations on what I'd had the first time. Some covered obvious territory I hadn't yet. After that I made more cards at whatever rate, eventually dividing everything into a 25-card main set and two 15-card expansions.

I am going to look at the cards in the order they appear in the oldest files. Some of the slots got filled in by other cards after stuff died or changed though; I wasn't saving every image. So, "Dungeon" isn't the first action card I made an image for. And attacks got their own page because they were printed on pink paper, and similarly victory and treasure and reaction cards had separate pages initially, so those cards aren't in the right order either.

I am only doing the first four pages because I want to lead a balanced life. There are six and half pages total, with the cards I'm not doing almost all being ones you know from Intrigue or later anyway.

Page 1:

"Dungeon:" I have talked about this a few times recently. "Trash a card from your hand, discard a card, +3 Cards." It cost $3, then $4. It was a staple trasher that dropped through the cracks. I bumped it to Intrigue and then Dark Ages and then it seemed like I'd covered this ground already.

Village: The first version cost $5 and just said "you may play two more actions." Over the first couple weeks I lowered it to $4, then $3, then added +1 Card, reasoning, part of why it sucked was that drawing Village meant you had fewer cards in hand to be those two actions. Sir Destry bought a lot of Villages early on and it was a month before he won his first game.

Market: Similarly Market cost $5 and let you buy an extra card, and I realized that Market in hand meant less money, so I made it +$1 +1 Buy. At the same time the first game had had "+1 Card +1 Action +$1," and eventually they merged. "+1 Buy" got terminology when it turned out I'd be doing more of those than just Market. I tried on "+1 Purchase" and then "+1 Build." Woodcutter is called Woodcutter because, +1 Build.

Smithy: Initially I was scared of such card-drawing. I had "draw 2 extra cards at end of turn" (as Laboratory). I came around to the beauty of straight card-drawing, and did the simplest one.

Mine: This is the card from the first game that changed the least. It explicitly turned Copper into Silver and Silver into Gold, and now looks at cost.

Chapel: Your Estates are worth points, surely you don't want to trash those. Okay I guess they are dead cards and you sure aren't buying them, but Coppers, they do something. It was a week or two before I said, man, I am just going to try trashing everything. Not long after that I found the 5-card deck - not the Remodel one, the Witch one. Chapel, Silver, Throne Room, Witch. I play Throne Witch every turn (paying $2 since Witch required you to pay $1 to play it). There were something like 45 Curses and the pile did not scale with the number of players, so this deck was not shabby.

Laboratory: This was probably from after the second batch of cards. I don't remember multiple versions. The "+1 Card +1 Action +$1" card was an early star, and after Village got its +1 Card and became a "free" +1 Action, it was like, why not a free +1 Card.

Throne Room: It cost $3 for forever. You could open Feast / Throne Room, some people enjoyed that. You could get it with "Stonecutter," that was significant. Okay I am only going to do 4 pages, so I will not make it to Stonecutter. Stonecutter was "Gain a card costing up to $3, if it's an action play it." You Stonecutter up Throne Rooms and Villages and Woodcutters (once that was around) and then buy "Towers" to rake in points.

"Stables:" The first Workshop-type thing I tried was "Gain an Estate," then "Gain a card costing up to $2." It was trying to be Monument but it would take a while to get there. Then it was "Gain a card costing up to $2. When you discard or trash this, +1 Card." Those of you marvelling at how main set cards anticipate Tunnel and Dark Ages: those were things that had just been around forever. Before the little Workshops, this slot started out as "When you buy an action this turn, play it;" then I tried out "+1 Buy, cards cost $1 less this turn." That seemed scary, but I brought it back in Alchemy (the original large 5th expansion) as the Bridge you know.

Page 2:

"Vault:" First Vault was "your victory cards are also coppers this turn." Then it became the top half of Secret Chamber. That cost $4, then $3, then became Secret Chamber.

Feast: As told elsewhere, Feast started out as a one-use Gold - "+1 Action +$3, trash this." It was strong and turned into Feast.

Trading Post: Started out as a way to trade a card for another of the same cost. Well that's awful. I thought of trading specifically for Silver and that's what it does. People would talk about melding treasure or victory cards - turn two Coppers into a Silver, turn three Estates into a Duchy - but that simple concept required way too many words. I could just turn two things into Silver specifically though and hey sometimes it would be two Coppers.

Workshop: This started out as a deliberate attempt to make a card to support a money-free deck. It was "+1 Action, -1 Buy, gain a card costing up to $3." I was the only one who liked it or could make it work.

Remodel: There's no story here, this was an obvious card that worked well early on.

Cellar: First I tried "+2 Cards +1 Action, put 2 cards from your hand on your deck." It was way too slow. Then I did Cellar but without the +1 Action.

"Highway:" This was "+2 Cards +$2," for $5. It was a solid card that I eventually decided not to do. It seemed strong and it's too easy to compare to other things. It had no special charm.

"Spare Room:" This is Pawn.

"Mining Village:" This version was switched - "+$2, may trash for +1 Card +2 Actions." These days tons of cards are "+$2, do something." Back then, that was not such a thing - cards tried to be good enough via their new ability. So Mining Village was a lonely "+$2" card. Yes Highway also says it but you know.

Page 3:

"Knight:" "Trash the top card of each other player's deck," for $4. I have previously told the story of the games this could trap you in. For a while though it was the standard, several cards were Knight with a bonus. Including of course the Knights. Knight itself started more expensive but I quickly lowered it to $4. At $4 you could buy it when you were losing and desperate; at $5 you would just get a Duchy.

Witch: The first version cost $3 and did not give +2 Cards. Then it cost $4, then $5, then $5 but you had to pay $1 to use it. Then just $5, then with +1 Card, then +2 Cards, with the Curse pile changing to scaling somewhere in there.

Thief: There was a discard attack in this slot first. I tried just making each other player discard one or two cards; it's broken as soon as multiple players buy them or you can chain them. Then I tried out Thief close to how you know it, but with the top cards being put back if they weren't trashed. Militias as you know them didn't arrive until after I showed the game to RGG.

"Wizard:" "+1 Card, each other player gains a Confusion," for $3. Confusion was a blank card. It had a hypnotic spiral on it, and when people were like, "I don't get it," I'd turn the spiral. Confusion stayed in the game for a while, and some other cards used them, but once the game was getting published it wasn't worth the 30 cards.

"Baron:" "Reveal the top card of each other player's deck. Trash those victory cards. Gain the trashed cards." For $6. Why not an attack that just hits victory cards? Within a few months it would change to $4, "each other player reveals the top 3 and trashes a victory card, gaining a cheaper card." Stealing Duchies survived in the game for a while; now you have to play Rogue twice. The best victory-card-trasher I ever had was "Mob" from Prosperity, which dug for one, trashed it, and gave them the next cheapest plus an Estate (or just an Estate if it didn't find one, making it useful in the early game). It is not really anything anyone needs in the game though. I eventually tried attacks that only hit actions; the problem is, I can make that dead by having a boring deck. So in the end there are cards that only trash treasures, and trashers that don't care about type.

Harem: Originally it cost $5, then $6. My version has no art, just a giant 2 coins and 2 crowns (my VP symbol).

"Tower:" This is Vineyard only for $4. I ended up swapping it with Gardens (originally from Alchemy and costing $P) because Gardens is in some sense easier.

Moat: Originally reactions were played when you reacted. Moat stopped one turn of attacks and drew you a card. It was useless on your own turn. Then I made another reaction that stopped all attacks for one round, and then I combined them.

"Battlements:" This reaction drew you two cards if you were attacked (after that it would be in play - so, dead or a Lab). Then it changed to, either play normally for +2 Cards, or play when attacked for +2 Cards. This died when I changed how reactions worked, because it was cumulative; then I brought it back as Horse Traders.

Page 4:

"Plague:" "Trash this, each other player gains a Confusion and a Curse," for $3. In some ways a precursor of Ill-Gotten Gains. Not shabby.

Great Hall: The first version is the same as the last; in-between it cost $4 for a bit after I beat people up with Upgrade / Great Hall (Upgrade had cost $4, which was the actual problem).

"Courtyard:" "When you gain this or play this, look at the top 3 cards of your deck, and discard any number of them," for $2. Did not work out. Previously the name had been on "Discard an Action card, gain a copy of it" for $3. After those the name went on $6, "play 2 actions from the supply each costing $3 or less." You know, you google up some art, but the card doesn't work out, and it's like, something else can be a courtyard.

Outpost: This version made your next turn's hand 2 cards smaller then this turn's, which meant you could take a 3rd turn with just one card and then any further turns you'd have no cards.

"Library:" "Look at the top 5, play one of those Actions, discard the rest first," for $3. It died for being uninteresting. Then I made a new version for Prosperity: "+1 action, look at top 5, put one in your hand, discard the rest." It cost $4 and was broken. At first it seemed like it might be fun broken, we all have crazy decks and aren't we having a good time? No, whoever got more copies of it won. I tried various fixes over the years to follow.

"Servant's Room:" $2, "Choose a card in your hand. Trash it; or discard it and +1 card; or trash it and gain a card with equal cost, in your hand." It was trying to be a follow-up to Pawn. I remembered the bad Trading Post and thought hey maybe it just needs more bad options. It didn't see much play and then turned into "choose one: +2 of something" which then turned into Steward.

Moneylender: The published version; I can't remember another version.

"Tax Collector:" This turned into Cutpurse. "Cards cost $1 less this turn and then $1 more until your next turn," for $3. There was no duration type or color, but I did have the rule that cards stayed out until the end of the turn they finished doing things. Multiplayer with multiple people playing Tax Collectors would have odd shifts in costs. I play it. On your turn you play another one; you break even. On the next player's turn they are hit by two at once. The 4th player plays one and so is only being hit by one total. On my turn mine goes away but the other two are hitting me.

"Caravan:" Only it's Merchant Ship. This replaced "+$2 +2 Actions" for $4. I can't do "+1 Action +$2 something something" for less than $5 (without a penalty), because you just automatically buy it over Silver in most games.

Pages: 1 ... 211 212 [213] 214 215 ... 248

Page created in 0.11 seconds with 18 queries.