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Messages - Donald X.

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4726
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Interview with Donald X.
« on: March 24, 2014, 02:57:20 pm »
Did you ever consider and/or test "Gain a Gold. Each other player gains a Curse. Each player who did takes a Coin Token."
The first version in Guilds is like the published version except there's no "if" (they get the card when the Curses run out). And I didn't do coin tokens prior to Guilds, so no.

There were ways to give other players coin tokens, but no-one ever wanted them. Sometimes people are stingy.

4727
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Interview with Donald X.
« on: March 24, 2014, 02:54:05 pm »
What?
No love for ultima v?
I thought it was way better than VI or IV.
I must have spent years of my childhood on that, just wandering around, killing headless and the like.

Best open world game ever made, you could go anywhere and talk to anybody!


Did you ever play Ultima Online? That's my favourite game ever.
The best part of Ultima V was that you could take out the disk, and put in the underworld disk, and walk a little, and suddenly you'd be in the underworld.

I never played Ultima Online. The Worlds of Ultima games - Martian Dreams and Savage Empires - sounded great but were not so hot.

A friend hacked Ultima IV and I made a new adventure/world for it: Quest of the Badvatar. I made the dungeons overhead like they did in Ultima VI, added items, fixed the few bugs I found (you could get lots of money by not being able to afford food in taverns - I am guessing they didn't find it because who was ever buying that instead of rations). It is now just a thing I can picture in my head.

4728
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Interview with Donald X.
« on: March 24, 2014, 03:27:59 am »
I like Taxman, I think it gets a bad rap. It's not super powerful but it has its charm.
People were sad when I took it out of Cornucopia, and glad when it showed back up in Guilds.

4729
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Interview with Donald X.
« on: March 24, 2014, 03:22:41 am »
Before Guilds, all of the cursers fit the theme (or at least a sub-theme) of their respective expansions.  Cultist sits in as the "curser" for Dark Ages.

Soothsayer breaks the mold.  Were all the previous examples just happy coincidences?  Was it just that Soothsayer play-tested better than any curser with coin tokens or overpay?
It was just a coincidence. Or, if you like, a natural consequence of "each other player gains a Curse" being simple, every set wanting simple on-theme cards, and no set wanting too many ways to give out Curses.


4730
Goko Dominion Online / Re: Dominion Online set selection
« on: March 24, 2014, 02:59:02 am »
As someone who at times hosts pro games and owns multiple (but not all) expansions, this would be extremely annoying. There's a much thinner market for casual 2p games than for pro 2p games. Part of the reason for this is that people have are suspicious that every kingdom in casual is designed or is something you practiced multiple previous times. Pro games are a solution to that whether you own all the cards or not.
Okay so this is a separate issue: casual needs to get rid of that problem. Like, normally you don't see the set of 10 in casual, only cards they picked out, so if you can see all 10 you know they hand-picked the set, and if you can only see Develop then you know it's Develop and 9 random cards.  You have a banned cards list that means you aren't worried the cards you can't see will be the ones you hate.

4731
Goko Dominion Online / Re: Dominion Online set selection
« on: March 24, 2014, 02:55:22 am »
Thank you for the reply.  I would be willing to purchase tournament entry chits at say 2/$1, and I own all the sets.  That may mean further financial gain for the host that otherwise they would never see no matter how many thousands of games I should ever play.
This point will not be lost on them.

4732
Goko Dominion Online / Re: Dominion Online set selection
« on: March 24, 2014, 02:34:09 am »
I would love to see a tourney room not unlike Magic Online or Poker Stars; a 8 16 or 32 man queue that fires off when all the seats are filled, for example.  Perhaps with  tourney leader board or pro leader board points as payoff for doing well.
In the murky past the idea was to have one of the ways you got the shields (for buying promos) be from winning tournaments like that. That still sounds good.

I haven't talked with the Making Fun people about tournaments specifically; I don't know what their plans are there. Nothing short-term for sure.

4733
Goko Dominion Online / Re: Dominion Online set selection
« on: March 24, 2014, 02:30:58 am »
Well, I guess we have to separate the ideal from reality. Ideally, you could only host pro games if you owned all the cards. And that might actually fly if the dominion community was as large as say, the chess community (and getting all the promos was easier). However, that restriction is likely overly prohibitive so we probably need to work around it.
I wonder exactly how much it would bother people if you had to own all the sets to host pro games (but didn't need the promos). If casual is rated then it's all just a tag, the fact that those games are labelled pro games. Without all the sets, you can host all the rated games you want, you can play in pro games you didn't host, but can't host the games (thus, no pro games vs. bots either).

It's the kind of thing I could see Making Fun consider because it encourages buying everything. The question would be, does it piss people off. I don't think the promos could be part of it.

It's not clear what the group is that would hate it. People with no expansions are already trying to join games with people who bought cards. And as it happens, most people who buy more than one set buy them all. So we are down to, people with one expansion who want to host pro games. Perhaps especially, to build up a rating vs. bots.

One option is, just let people do that. That's not a great solution, but I think it's the best of a bad lot. Giving people an individual ban list, in fact, does not prevent people from abusing the problems introduced in option 1. It just adds another way to cheapen the competitive environment. There are some other things people have proposed (like multiple set based leaderboards - ick), but no one's really convinced me.
You could go as far as a leaderboard per card. Really at that point it's not so much a leaderboard as it is a way to view the data.

4734
Goko Dominion Online / Re: Dominion Online set selection
« on: March 24, 2014, 02:06:51 am »
I don't see how it would take more screen space in the game; the number on the Treasure pile is just bigger. Cap it at 99 if that extra digit doesn't fit I guess.

Not that I think it's super-interesting, in fact I think it is a more interesting game when Silver/Gold is one of the 3 piles. I just don't quite see what you mean.
I meant, that on some options screen you are clicking "more treasures please." You bought Intrigue, you could add more Silvers but don't have to, we don't know if you want to or not, so there's this option somewhere. I don't think that option is earning its place on that screen.

4735
Goko Dominion Online / Re: Dominion Online set selection
« on: March 24, 2014, 01:48:33 am »
This whole idea actually came out of thinking a leaderboard for the recommended sets might be interesting; your game mode is "recommended sets", you don't know which one it will be (or what set(s) it's from) till you get in the game. Might be a more bearable version for a noob who doesn't know many cards, but still wants to be competitive and play with the pro kids.

*actually this also means that players who bought Intrigue should have the option of doubling up their Treasure piles. And if the base card art is ever released online (that would make me so happy), you should be able to buy multiple copies of it to keep making your Treasure pile bigger and bigger (source)
They might like a "recommended sets" leaderboard, because it's a mild encouragement to buy all the sets.

I would increase treasures for 5-6 and otherwise not, as a flat rule; while technically it's an option I don't think it's interesting enough to give it space on whatever screen.

For sure they will do the alternate art Base Cards. I don't have a timeline there, or know how people will get it.

4736
Goko Dominion Online / Re: Dominion Online set selection
« on: March 24, 2014, 01:44:21 am »
Pro games should absolutely not allow for people to have an individual veto list, no matter how short, because the purpose of a Pro ranking system is NOT to maximize each players individual enjoyment, it is to foster an environment conducive to the highest levels of competitive play. I'm sorry if you don't like e.g. possession, but it is a part of the game. Even if I hated the Dutch Defense, it would be silly to disallow it in a high level chess tournament. If there are cards you really can't stand you either A) suck it up for the relatively small percentage of games that card appears in, B) forfeit said game, or C) play casual.
D) host games and don't buy Alchemy. Alchemy is a separate product, it's only part of the game if you buy it. There's nothing analogous in chess.

4737
Goko Dominion Online / Re: Dominion Online set selection
« on: March 24, 2014, 12:59:43 am »
I would be happy with any solution where: A) I could avoid a certain couple cards I don't like, and B) I can find someone to play with.
I don't care if this solution is implemented in casual or pro or unrated, but currently not many people with multiple sets seem to want to play casual games without exploiting their favorite combo, much less unrated ones. So I guess what I want is for casual and/or unrated games to be fixed so more people will want to play them, which woud mostly likely involve some way to be pretty sure that some jerk didn't craft the kingdom to exploit their favorite combo or whatever.

FWIW, I share LF's opinion about ratings: When playing a rated game, it's easier to get mad & frustrated if I lose. For this reason, unrated games can be more fun. Without ratings, Dominion is a game (unlike some others) where it can be just as fun to lose as it is to win, but ratings messes up that aspect.
(I did make a comment about 'too bad it wasn't a rated game' that time I played against Lastfootnote, but I was just joking about beating someone with a much higher rating than me...)
Well, for the jerk issue, does highlighting picked cards do the trick? Obv. you can randomly generate lists repeatedly until you see what you like, but that doesn't seem so scary, how much preying on people is happening that way.

What about if casual is just unrated? What are the merits of separate casual / unrated? "Casual" sounds to me like the kind of thing where I'm not worried about rating. Obv. people looking to get a high casual rating with KC/Masq would lose out but we are okay with that. People who aren't ready for pro humans but want a rating can play pro games against bots or rack up ratings of different kinds in adventures.

4738
Goko Dominion Online / Re: Dominion Online set selection
« on: March 24, 2014, 12:54:40 am »
I usually don't join games created by other players in the lobby because I'd prefer to be certain it's going to include all the cards (which I have purchased/earned). Sometimes hosts of pro games don't indicate at all how many cards they own in the game title, and I'd rather create my own table instead of joining theres.
I think obv. any information like that that you'd want to know should be visible without anyone having to stick it in their title. You see it right on the screen or hover over something to see it. They have 6 expansions, 2% quit rate, 4600 rating.

If the kingdom was generated from all of the cards owned by all players involved rather than just the host, I would have no problem joining almost any 2p pro game. I guess this would be more troublesome for casual/unrated if the kingdom is supposed to be generated before the game starts.
I find it hard to believe they will ever want to be more generous than the already friendly "play with all the cards the host bought."

4739
Goko Dominion Online / Re: Dominion Online set selection
« on: March 24, 2014, 12:52:01 am »
Since I play primarily for fun, I also just prefer not having my games ranked. I tend to get upset when I lose a ranked game (even a casual one), but not when I lose an unranked game. So overall my enjoyment is increased by playing unranked games. But I could get over that. It's mostly the "could be pulled away at any moment" thing.
I think obv. it should be possible to have a leaving player replaced with a bot, so you can have whatever fun was left to have. But the leaving player would have to be punished for that ranking-wise because maybe you are just quitting a game you've lost and so yes, unrated, I see.

To be fair, the "My Cards" board builder does already have a "type a few letters to narrow your search" function, but it's still way slower and requires switching between mouse and keyboard 10 times (11 with Young Witch).
In that case it should let you switch slots with a keypress - "space" to keep your choice and go to the next one.

If I had my druthers, there would be a randomizer option for "pick up to 2 sets (with larger sets being more likely), then get half the cards from each set", sprinkling in promos proportionally. In fact I have my own little HTML page that does exactly this, spitting out a nice string of Kingdom cards that I can copy and paste into the extension's Kingdom Generator. So far I've had good luck with generating fun boards using this technique, which is hardly surprising since I believe it's how most of the IRL testing was done.
Yes, mostly I played two expansions with 5 cards from each, although I also played the large expansions by themselves, especially Dark Ages. The cards aren't trying to be better for that format, but you do see set themes reinforced that way. Some cards do end up better, due to being combos with the set themes.

"Pick from 2 sets" seems like a good option provided there aren't lots of options like that (which is to say, I still favor not having a bewildering list of options). Wait, this can be folded into the previous proposal; you can label a slot "from random set #1" or "from random set #2" and then you know, if you have three random set #1's they are from the same random set.

Sure. I would like to not be playing exclusively against noobs, though. I enjoy playing against a variety of skill levels. I don't feel the need to test my mettle against the best of the best, but I do like a challenge now and then.

Ideally (for me), any automatch system will have the option to say, "Gee I'd like to play a Pro game, but if I can't find one within X seconds, I'll take what I can get." But I have no clue how automatch would work with Casual and Unrated games where (presumably) the host has created the board beforehand. I don't even know how it's going to work in terms of matching up the haves and the have-nots in terms of set ownership. So I am unable to give any specific suggestions because I have no knowledge of the framework.
It's hard to evaluate a timeout option just yet; you have to know, how popular is the game, how specific can you be with the matchmaking (thus generating a profile no-one will match). Obv. you can always be your own timeout option.

Probably optionally specifying a minimum number of expansions for matchmaking is okay? People for sure specify how many sets they have, that they don't want a certain quit% (though that needs fixing), that they want a certain rating.

4740
Goko Dominion Online / Re: Dominion Online set selection
« on: March 23, 2014, 11:41:10 pm »
I play mostly Unrated games using sets I create with my own randomizer.
I am curious why you play unrated games. I don't know what other differences there are besides not being rated.

If Making Fun wants to create a better set generator with parameters, I think they should consider using a text-based input field like the extension uses. It's arguably less user-friendly than Dominion Online's current Kingdom creator, but way, way more convenient. Right now the native Kingdom creator (the "My Cards" section) is a bit of a mess. The cards are divided up into not just expansions, but sub-expansions. Some of these are sorted alphabetically and some by card cost. It takes forever to, say, recreate one of Hinterlands's suggested sets of 10 using that interface. Whereas with the extension, I can just type in a comma-separated list of ten cards and bam, it's made. Or if I want to practice with a specific card, I can just type "Develop, All" and go. So it would be nice if the text-based input were at least an option. At minimum, they should revamp the "My Cards" section to be more user friendly and give various sort and search options (e.g. All Cards, By Expansion, By Sub-Expansion, By Cost, etc.).
I think the "recommended sets" should just be there as an option; a lot of people like to play them IRL and I bet that carries over.

I am sympathetic to wanting something text-based. I (someone who has barely looked at this system) would like to be able to type a few letters and have it find the card. Maybe there are ten slots and for each one you can leave it random, or pick a set, or type your few letters (or endlessly look through a list). Or pick a special category (village, attack).

I think what Wei-Hwa had going on was way too complex.

I don't know if there are advantages to "bias towards Seaside" vs. "include 3 cards from Seaside."

My much greater concern is with the eventual native automatch implementation. Over half the games on Dominion Online seem to be Pro games. About half of the Casual games are Base-only. I almost never see an Unrated game that I'm not hosting. Right now this isn't a problem for me. I have no trouble finding players for my games because even if they'd prefer to play a Pro or Casual games, many are willing to play an Unrated game rather than sit around in the lobby. I have no idea how the native automatch will work once it's finally implemented, but if it works like the extension, players cannot say, "Well, I'd like to play this type of game, but I'm willing to play these others." You just choose a type of game and get matched. I will bet cash money that over 99% of automatched games are Pro games. So I'm concerned that native automatch will be the death knell of unrated and perhaps even casual games.
Well do we have any data from other games? I feel like, if I'm a newcomer and I see that there are "pro" and "casual" options, I will choose "casual" to start with so I'm not annoying anyone. "Pro" sounds like the players are better, even though that isn't actually part of it.

4741
Goko Dominion Online / Re: Dominion Online set selection
« on: March 23, 2014, 11:27:52 pm »
One suggestion is:
The host of a pro game chooses whether the Kingdom will be generated according to "black list mode" (and this is a visible characteristic of the game). If so, each player's list of (up to) three cards won't be included in the Kingdom (when the game starts it lists which cards each player vetoed).

If a pro game is not generated in "black list mode", then only cards that are on every player's "black list" list will be vetoed. A tournament's rules might require not using black list mode, for example.

Additionally, no cards from the base set can be black listed. For the other cards, there is a worry that people will not purchase, say, Cornucopia if they will be forced to play Tournament in "pro" games. With the base set that concern doesn't apply.
Yes, somehow I missed this. Yes an important part of the idea behind this is, do not just avoid buying Cornucopia to avoid seeing Tournament in games; you can buy a product and choose not to play with the card you don't like.

And similarly when you are hosting games, you should be able to turn off any expansions you don't want to play with, if it seems like anyone would ever do that.

For tournaments the key question would be, do people feel like the banned lists are unfair or what. If they don't then I would allow them in tournaments; we are all here to have fun. I am speaking only of official tournaments, which so far haven't existed; obv. anyone can run a tournament with whatever limits they want.

4742
Goko Dominion Online / Re: Dominion Online set selection
« on: March 23, 2014, 11:21:36 pm »
Here is the veto mode proposal in its most advanced state. SheCantSayNo and maybe other people contributed.

- you can pick 3 cards total from expansions/promos, but not the main set (this is to reduce the potential to game the system)
- the creator of a game chooses either to not include cards on all players' lists (the default) or to not include cards on any player's list (so, if you don't want to use this system, that's already the default; don't pick 3 cards, leave it on "all")
- matchmaking allows 1) I want "gone if all banned it," 2) I want "gone if any banned it," 3) I don't care, match me already

Conceivably Goko Salvager could give this a trial run, see if people like it or not.

4743
Goko Dominion Online / Re: Dominion Online set selection
« on: March 23, 2014, 11:16:35 pm »
To clarify, I meant that you would see the set of ten and the parameters they used to pick it (including the possibility to pick all 10. This is a useful feature and I don't think it should go away). Maybe it pops up that this set contains tournament and you don't join the game. If it comes up with a huge wall of text on all the requirements they used, you don't have to read it all. You can just decide that you'd rather not play that game (or play it anyway).
If they pick the cards sufficiently randomly - e.g. 5 Seaside 5 Prosperity - then why show the ten cards?

I don't like the huge wall of text; sure I can ignore it, whatever, it's bad. If I can see the 10 cards then obv. I don't need to know anything except "did they force specific cards." If I can't see the 10 then I would limit it to, they either picked some simple thing here it is, or it's something complex and leave it at that, proceed at own risk. I mean I would show the cards they forced if any but not "include a village" or whatever if those were options.

So I guess that answers my question, if you show the 10 cards and highlight ones they forced to be included and maybe flash an alarm for picking KC+Masq then who cares how else they generated it, there's your actual set of 10.

But uh I feel like I don't want to know the set of 10. I want to be able to say "5 seaside" and not know what they are until the game starts. I don't want to pick a game to join based on the cards on the table. The only reason I care is if I hate a card and it's there, which brings us back to the veto mode thing.

4744
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Interview with Donald X.
« on: March 23, 2014, 10:53:34 pm »
Okay, I have a serious question. Hope nobody has asked you this already
Are there ( or were there) any card(s) or idea that you really wanted to make, but neer made it too far in testing.
Maybe you constantly revived the idea for the next expansion at the time but it never made it, and since the last expansion is out, will never make it.

Also, thank you for being nice enough to actually listen to our question.
I'm there for you.

There is a big list of never-tested stuff, much of it not too exciting. There are things that got tested just a little and might still be worth revisiting. There are things that got a lot of testing and never worked out.

I'm not sure how much I would stress me really wanting to make them, but there are a few ideas that I clung to longer than was reasonable. One classic example is "at the end of the game, each other player sets aside a VP card and doesn't score it." The draw for me is that it's a different kind of attack, it's not so similar to the existing ones. At one card it's too weak, at two it's too strong, and it scales poorly with different numbers of players. There totally might be a good version though, a balanced version that was sometimes worth buying but not always. But that card also has a good chance of not being something anyone would really like. The appeal of "I haven't done it yet" mostly applies to me, rather than to players. I mean they like seeing new stuff but you know, mostly limited to new stuff they actually like. There are other things in this category, and I did revisit some of them for Dark Ages, which was expecting to be the last set. Another one that comes to mind is a hot potato card (something you don't want that passes from player to player); I first tried one in Intrigue.

We can look at where things stood prior to Guilds. Guilds wasn't always going to exist. It has two mechanics that seemed like stand-outs on the list and turned out well. It has two cards I moved into it from Dark Ages just due to preferring them there (Advisor and Journeyman). And it has two fixed-up old ideas: Taxman and Soothsayer. Taxman hasn't gone over so well on this site but I am pretty pleased with Soothsayer; it looks crazy and yet manages to be one of the weaker Curse-givers. It's simple. The idea started out in Alchemy; Taxman also, in fact both cards in different forms tried out for the same slot (Alchemist). So anyway, in terms of old ideas getting fixed up, Guilds got two, and you can see how that worked out for you.

4745
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Interview with Donald X.
« on: March 23, 2014, 10:32:22 pm »
I was curious because i'm a bit familiar to Heroes of Might and Magic III, so I tried it and finally managed to run it via DOSBox. It plays very well and mostly similar to Heroes, but your game philosophy comes through: "twists" that can be added to the game (eh, I already know this word from somewhere...), plenty of monsters with funny special abilities, many different paths to go by leveling up heroes etc.
I really like your game and I'll play it the next weeks, but I don't really understand why you call it best computer game ever. Do you know many other computer games? (Well, I myself don't really but I'm sure there should be some more recent games that could be better.)
It's one of those "it's funny because it's true" things. Dudes has awful art (I did most of it myself, but not the rock or the boot or uh man maybe one other thing), it's low on interface-frills, it's my take on an old game. At the same time I have actually played it more than any other computer game, and can find you uh at least three other people who will cite it as their favorite computer/console/arcade game ever.

I have played a ton of computer/console/arcade games in my day. I played arcade games when they came out. There was a period where there was this incredible variety, and then a few years later it was all driving and punching games (although somehow not both together). I mostly played games with a jump button. Skaff Elias has a funny speech about how stupid it is that so many games had a button that made you be slightly higher briefly, but man I liked those games. Donkey Kong, Vs. Super Mario Bros., Rolling Thunder, Bubble Bobble. I did play some other games too, I will single out Centipede/Millipede.

I had an Atari 400, I remember Shamus especially fondly although it's a blatant red key / red door game. Crush Crumble & Chomp had a brilliant premise and funny rulebook but game-wise could have been better. Star Raiders was cool. I played a bunch of CX2600 games but never owned one.

I played games on the Apple ][ but never owned one. Ultima III and Ultima IV were each the best game ever in their day. Hitchhiker's Guide was the best text adventure although I never knew anyone to have beaten it without cheating. It showed that you could take the genre further, and then no-one ever did. Leather Goddesses of Phobos was good, but it was all downhill for Meretzky after Zork Zero.

I made a commercially available text adventure game in the 80s, Escape From Planet X. It had speech recognition, that was how I got it to exist. I worked for a company that did speech recognition/compression/synthesis.

As an adult I stuck with Nintendo for consoles. I loved the combat in Zelda 2 - it's just, your sword/shield are up/down, you can point one straight up, stab straight down. It's simple but good. Mario 64 was the best console game ever in its day. They are treading water on some of these things now - I expect Mario Kart 8 will be totally cool and yet not remotely new enough. Well to be fair Super Mario 3D World is great, and I liked the new Zelda 3DS game. Rayman Legends is a great recent platformer. I'm playing Pikmin 3 missions some these days by myself; the kids are making me replay the Mario Galaxy games and Kirby's Epic Yarn.

Secret of Monkey Island and the first sequel were the best of their kind. Plus Day of the Tentacle. The genre went way downhill since then. SimCity was cool but they never went anywhere with it, just improved the graphics and added more micromanagement; Caesar III is the real sequel to SimCity, although that series too just stuck with minor tweaks. In the Sims I had a house of all kids, you make money from paintings and eat pizza; I had a house with two prisoners who I let be completely autonomous while other people ran the house. You already know I loved Heroes II and III. Stop there, they messed it up after III. I don't know if the far-removed VI is any good or not.

I liked Oblivion and Skyrim but man the combat sucks. The skill tree is not great either. There are all these interface problems too (picking potion ingredients in Skyrim being a huge example). At the time I said, well the main improvement is that now when you pick a flower, it shows that you picked it. It's fun exploring the world though. If I were them I would make a Skyrim-type game with no combat, or automatic combat; focus on the stuff they do well. The combat is good enough in Fallout 3 although not fantastic or anything. Anyway as we know they made an MMO as their next thing and well I have zero interest in that. I'm not into RTS either.

Origins over the years could be counted on to make games with lots of bugs. I quit playing both Ultima VI and VII at points where all my saved games were wrecked. Ultima Underworld was still very cool in its day; I immediately wrote a 3-D texture-mapped engine. Sometimes you just need to know it's possible. Maxis could be counted on to make awful non-games with Sim in the title. It was a surprise when The Sims was actually good. It's still not really a game but I had some fun. LucasFilm/LucasArts, man I feel like they vanished after X-Wing. Sierra was pretty bad, for in-house games anyway. They profited from just not having a lot of competition in the graphic adventure game genre at one point. The Heroes people also had the Might & Magic series. VI was good, it's crude but the dungeons were reasonably interesting and it's fun building up your guys; VII had the exact same dated engine but hey Arcomage, and still decent level design; VIII and IX had the exact same engine and the level design degenerated into "the heaven place is a featureless stone maze with a cloud graphic for the floor."

I played Rogue when there were no Rogue-likes. I wasn't very good. Then I played the Atari ST version, which had graphics. Oh Time Bandit, that was a fantastic game on the ST. I haven't played many Rogue-likes but I put in some time on ADoM.

Kongregate is the flash game site I go to, though I've heard some developers don't like it. Flash games actually have some innovation; people are scared to blow money on unformulaic PC games, but it's no problem for one person to waste some time on a wacky flash game. Nerdook has done a bunch of neat variations on things, check him out. I liked Kingdom Rush as a recent tower defense game; it's fun drawing the map in a tower defense game, like in Desktop TD, but you so don't need that.

Have you guys tried Desktop Dungeons? There's a free earlier version that's good. You could be trying it in seconds. The premise is "5-minute Rogue-like" although it's kind of a puzzle-game. Exploring is a resource, that's the major idea.

Anyway yes I've played some computer games.

Would a Dominion spinoff always have the same base mechanic (every player has one deck to draw from and to improve) put together with some other stuff (board, tokens, other currencies, other types of cards, cards that don't go into the deck,...)?
Or are you also planning to abstract the base mechanics (e.g. board instead of deck)?
If it has Dominion in the title, you will build a deck, and the rest could be anything. If it doesn't have building a deck - like Kingdom Builder - then it will not have Dominion in the title and will just be a Dominion-inspired game that I made rather than a spin-off.

4746
And/or require that the host of a pro game have bought at least one expansion*. I'm a little disappointed when I join a pro game and it turns out to be base-only. Part of the reason I join pro games is that they tend to have more expansions than casual games.
It seems good to have the game indicate how many expansions are available for it. Requiring people to own an expansion to host a pro game seems like it will just annoy potential customers.

I like this suggestion and the one about unrated becoming casual, and casual becoming an intermediate level. The intermediate could have the kingdom generator that you suggest here.
When finding players is an issue, you want as few groupings as possible; so, having an extra division has to really be worth it.

4747
Maybe Donald could suggest to MakingFun that we have a representative from the forums (and BGG, etc) who can poll the community and contact them with suggestions. This takes the onus away from Donald to do extra stuff, it hopefully gets us communication from Making Fun, and clarifies our message (whatever that message is). MakingFun might not want be drawn into working on our ideas but that would be their decision.
Say whatever you want to Making Fun, no-one's stopping you. I suspect Making Fun will tend to be more interested in improvements that benefit casual players, because there are more of them, and it's not like Magic where the pros spend more money. But for sure there is value to them in pleasing serious players too.

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Oh cool, people are mad at WW instead of me this time for disagreeing or arguing with Donald X. I'm fine with that.
Oh man, I remember that. Kirian agreed with me about something and you called it a circle jerk. I bet it was pretty exciting when you found out what a circle jerk actually was.

4749
Oh, for sure.  He is definitely participating in the discussion.  He isn't intending to pass along suggestions unless he's been personally convinced that they are good ideas.  Which is kind of necessary if he wants to pass along concrete suggestions with a unified and coherent voice.  Otherwise he would just being forward a batch of raw, contradictory comments, which would require a lot of processing on MakingFun's part and therefore be less likely to be considered or implemented.
I'm not just avoiding incoherency or whatever; I'm actively pushing for things I want. If I want something because I think you-all want it, that's still me pushing for what I want. It's a dictatorship and there's no need to sugarcoat it.

You know for a time the standard way they converted movies from movie-size to TV-size was to pan & scan. Woody Allen had it in his contract that they couldn't do that to the TV versions of his flick Manhattan; it's letterboxed. It's just like that. Some guy gets to make the call and if you don't have a zoom button you're out of luck.

It's a world of dictators. I personally am just glad for each day that goes by without Lindt deciding to stop making the chocolate bar I like.

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I do think that it makes sense that "pro" mode should be aimed at the interests of the competitive players though.
That sounds good from the name, "pro," and well I don't have much data yet, but I bet that a bunch of competitive players would like to not play with whatever cards they hate the most.

I think if casual were fixed up a little bit then perhaps people would be more willing to play it too. I probably would still only host pro-mode matches, but I'd be willing to join casual games if it were possible to see what criteria someone used when picking the game (including what sets were drawn from). This would require goko implementing a server-side functioning kingdom generator. LF points out that someone could just keep generating kingdoms until they got, say KC/Goons/Masq, which I guess is an issue, but I think if you were only allowed to put in your parameters and then you didn't see the kingdom until you hit "create game," then generating kingdoms until you got the one you want would be a sufficiently large hassle that it wouldn't be that much of a problem.
KC/Masq is the big one, and the program could actually just call it out, warning warning this player set up a KC/Masq game.

It has to be possible to pick all 10 cards (because I say so and my word is law, obv. if I had an acceptable reason for saying this I would endlessly spell it out), but if it tells you "they picked all 10 and here they are" vs. "they picked 5 seaside 5 prosperity" then uh well sometimes people would get suckered and maybe never even know it, but it sounds acceptable. I guess the question then is, how much do people care about seeing the exact set of 10, provided that they get to see the decisions made on generating them? The point to seeing the set of 10 is, I am going to guess, to make sure you don't get a game you won't like; I say "5 seaside 5 prosperity," and who knows, you may be looking at an attack-heavy game you'd decide against playing. OTOH if you have a short banned list you at least get to dodge those.

Of course it's not great if you click on a game and it gives you a page of information about the set-up - they picked 5 seaside 5 prosperity but banned mountebank and sea hag and require at least one village and require lighthouse if there's an attack. This might be a reason to have it be that past a certain point it treats it like you picked all 10 and shows them.

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