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Messages - Donald X.

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4601
Thanks for the previews!

Do we know / are we allowed to know if the word "Shelter" at the bottom of those cards actually means anything? My guess would be that there are other Dark Age cards that reference "Shelter" cards; if not, why have a special type at all?
I'm there for you.

If no cards referred to Shelters (something as yet unknown), then the point to the type would be, to give the cards a color - in Dominion, having a color indicates having a type (but not vice versa). And they have a color to make them go together, for separating out of your deck and stuff.

4602


Here they are at last, the Shelters. In an all Dark Ages game, your starting deck is 7 Coppers, Necropolis, Overgrown Estate, Hovel. When mixing sets up, the rule for using Shelters is similar to the Platinum / Colony rule.

Shelters may not be worth the 1 VP of an Estate, but they are way better to have in your deck. Necropolis lets you go a little heavier on terminals from the get-go. Overgrown Estate gives you an extra little treat if you ever manage to trash it. And Hovel has a built-in way to get rid of it - you move out of that Hovel, and into a nice Duchy or something.

You can't buy Shelters, but they cost $1. That's just to shake up how various cards interact with them. A Remodel doesn't take you as far as it used to. And with only one being a Victory card, that Crossroads doesn't go to as many places. Baron doesn't know what to do with these. And an Ambassador can't even give them away, since they have no piles to return to. On the other hand, they are fine places to get animals for your Menagerie. And how much exactly can you build Fairgrounds up to now, in games without Black Market? Man. A lot.

Even though I previewed 15 cards, only 9 of them were kingdom cards. There are 26 kingdom cards left that you haven't seen. That's as many as a whole set! It's like there weren't any previews at all. And yet they're over. Someone will no doubt post the card list after the set comes out at GenCon next week, and I will post a Secret History shortly afterwards.

4603
Dark Ages Previews / Re: Dark Ages Preview #4: Rats, Pillage, Spoils
« on: August 09, 2012, 11:18:29 am »
Actually, Mint does say that the gained copy must be from the supply (just as Smugglers and some other gainers by the way) - although only in the additional kingdom card descriptions.

Mine doesn't say it anywhere as far as I can see, though.
You are correct, Mine's FAQ is missing this rule. That is a mistake; Mine can only gain cards from the supply.

When you make someone trash a Cultist when you are Possessing them, they draw the three cards.

4604
Dark Ages Previews / Re: Dark Ages Preview #4: Rats, Pillage, Spoils
« on: August 09, 2012, 10:52:43 am »
I am wondering what the iteractionn of Rats is with Lookout.  Lookout says "+1 Action, Look at the top
3 cards of your deck. Trash one of them. Discard one of them. Put the other one on top of your deck."
Because of the "look at" function there is no accountability on what you do first: trash, discard, place.
Is there supposed to be an order to those three?  If not I guess Lookout + Rats in one of the 3 top cards
would make Lookout function as a cantrip with you actually getting the card you place on top.
I am not understanding what you mean there, but if it helps, you do things in the order the card tells you to. So trash, then discard, then place.

I think this gets confusing because if you trash the rats you draw a card. Which card do you draw? Do you finish the lookout discard/top deck action and then immediately draw the card (this is my interpretation) or do you draw the card that is below the 3 lookout cards?

My guess is that the card-draw for Rats happens at the same speed as a reaction, that is it happens immediately before the Lookout has finished resolving. So the card drawn would be the one below the three cards being looked at.

This is a confusing issue because "Look at the top 3 cards of your deck" doesn't state that they're not still "the top 3 cards in your deck" while they're being looked at. But to consider them as still being on top of your deck while you're resolving Lookout would be madnessópresumably they're just in "Looking-At-Cards Land". A similar question came up with regard to Golem a while ago.
Yes, the three cards for Lookout are in being-looked-at land, and trashing Rats draws you the top card of your deck, not one of those cards.

4605
Dark Ages Previews / Re: What card design rules are left?
« on: August 09, 2012, 10:14:16 am »
I wasn't sure where to ask this, so I put it here - is tomorrow the last preview (15 cards), or are they continuing through Sunday (21 cards)?
Tomorrow is the last one. Then probably someone will spoil the set Thursday.

4606
Dark Ages Previews / Re: Dark Ages Preview #4: Rats, Pillage, Spoils
« on: August 09, 2012, 09:46:49 am »
Rules question:  The first thing on Rats is +1card, +1 action.  So I do that first before gaining another Rats, yes?  So if the card I draw is my Watchtower, I can then reveal the Watchtower to trash the incoming Rats.  Is that correct?

I'd say yes. Meaning that you can draw another card cause you just trashed a rats, right?
Yes and yes.

Pillage does not say "if you do," the only thing holding Throne etc. in check there is that it only hits opponents with 5+ cards in hand.

4607
Dark Ages Previews / Dark Ages Preview #4: Rats, Pillage, Spoils
« on: August 09, 2012, 09:02:09 am »


Rats is my favorite Dominion card. Now you know that about me. You give your kingdom a rat problem. Sure, you get rid of some garbage, but now you've got Rats, and they don't get rid of themselves. Isn't the solution worse than the problem? Plus, let's not forget, there are twenty Rats, rather than the usual ten. That's right: today, you didn't get the whole story just looking at the pictures. Twenty Rats, even in two-player games. Just chewing your deck to pieces. Well secretly there's probably something you can do with them. Looking over the cards spoiled so far, they seem to be a combo with most of them, what's up with that.

Pillage is a more conventional attack, in that it attacks your opponents. It's a one-shot. There haven't been very many but this is one. You make everyone else discard their best card, which is bound to hurt them, and you get two Spoils, which sounds good at least. It's a pretty rude attack, but at least it only happens once per copy bought, barring Graverobbers or something. The thing being Pillaged in the art is of course a Village. I remember when that was a peaceful place, with a guy on a horse.

Spoils is a one-shot Gold. That makes Pillage a one-shot that gets you two one-shots. You can't buy Spoils; there are three different ways to get it, and the other two get you them repeatedly. A one-shot Gold is pretty good if you were only drawing it once anyway, or if you didn't really want Gold in the long run, and if those things aren't true well hey it's still something.

There are 15 Spoils. I have seen them run out (temporarily of course) but it's rare. A little math reveals that there must therefore be only one victory card pile. Dark Ages has 35 kingdom cards, adding up to 352 cards, and 35 randomizers; 50 Ruins; 10 extra Rats; 10 Madmen and 10 of some other card you upgrade into; 15 Spoils; and 18 Shelters.

4608
Dark Ages Previews / Re: What card design rules are left?
« on: August 08, 2012, 06:46:18 pm »
Reactions that hurt the attacking player are also right out, though that should be covered under the "no politics" rule.
There's probably an essay from me about this on this site, but the issue is a one-to-three ratio that's the wrong direction. Reactions that hurt the attacker are either too weak for the person buying them or too strong against the other players.

4609
Dark Ages Previews / Re: How Dark Ages affects existing... things
« on: August 08, 2012, 06:23:18 pm »
Topic title edited because it was really bothering my OCD.

I guess that error would affect your OCD.

:):):)

We wouldn't want to negatively effect you're OCD. That would just be mean.

Oh snap, TINAS' joke is what I meant to do but apparently I cannot think right now.  What fail.  :-[

Its not always easy to use affect/effect correctly.  Their tricky.

I believe its there tricky ;)

Your all wrong, it's not that hard.
that's what she said

4610
Dark Ages Previews / Re: Dark Ages Preview #3: Squire, Hermit, Madman
« on: August 08, 2012, 06:15:20 pm »
Even though Scheme says "if" rather than "when," it's the same timing as "when" - both cards do something when Hermit is discarded from play. So you pick what order to resolve the effects. If you resolve Hermit first, Scheme will be unable to find Hermit in the trash, due to the lose track rule (which is in the Dark Ages rulebook). If you resolve Scheme first, Hermit will be unable to trash itself, but will still gain you a Madman (there's no "if you do" there).
This ruling surprised me a bit and I've been puzzling over it all day (I know, get a life, really.) Of course it will be nice to see the legendary and elusive Lose Track rule at last set down in black and blue. My impression is that so far it has mostly referred to one card losing track of another (Throne Room loses Mining Village, Watchtower loses Border Village, etc.) but apparently here a card can also lose track of itself.
"Lose track" just stops a card from being moved after another card moves it.

If Scheme moves Hermit, then Hermit no longer sees itself where it expected to, and can't move itself. This doesn't prevent anything else from happening, just moving Hermit.

Similarly if Hermit moves itself, then Scheme can no longer find Hermit to move it.

"Lose track" exists because I need to say what to do when a card isn't where it's expected to be, and the answer has to be "you lose track" because in some cases you really do lose track (I think Watchtower / Border Village / Inn is covered in these forums).

4611
Dark Ages Previews / Re: Dark Ages Preview #3: Squire, Hermit, Madman
« on: August 08, 2012, 10:02:06 am »
Now, I think I know the answer to this, but I just want to make sure - can a Scheme save a Hermit from Madness?

Scheme says: "If you discard it from play, put it on your deck."

Hermit says: "When you discard this from play..."

Scheme does not say "if you WOULD discard", so I'm assuming this means you have to discard it from play, then put it on your deck, which means it would trigger Hermit in a turn without a Buy, and Scheme can do nothing to save it.

Not that I'd really want to save the Hermit from madness; this is purely academical.
Even though Scheme says "if" rather than "when," it's the same timing as "when" - both cards do something when Hermit is discarded from play. So you pick what order to resolve the effects. If you resolve Hermit first, Scheme will be unable to find Hermit in the trash, due to the lose track rule (which is in the Dark Ages rulebook). If you resolve Scheme first, Hermit will be unable to trash itself, but will still gain you a Madman (there's no "if you do" there).

4612
Dark Ages Previews / Dark Ages Preview #3: Squire, Hermit, Madman
« on: August 08, 2012, 09:01:08 am »


Squire is the complement to Steward that you always knew I'd make. Okay maybe you didn't figure that one out. You get a choice of three things that Steward doesn't get you, plus $1 in the bargain. It's a pretty nifty $2, just for that. And if he gets trashed, then you get an attack, any attack on the table. You can Remodel a Squire into a Remodel and a Familiar.

A major theme of Dark Ages is upgrading, whatever that means. Actually I think I can explain it: it's, turning cards into other cards. Some cards turn other cards into other other cards, like Graverobber does, but some cards turn themselves into other cards, and Squire is one of those.

Hermit is another. He's normally content to just trash certain cards and gain some Silvers or something. But if you don't make enough trips into town, he loses it. He goes mad. And then he blows up one day in a fit of card-drawing. Which is my way of saying, well it's all there on the card. That stuff.

Hermit turns into Madman, a card that isn't in the supply. You can't buy a Madman; if you want one, you have to get a Hermit and then not buy something. And then you only get it once! Somehow it's worth the trouble.

Turning a card into a specific new non-kingdom card requires a pile of ten of those cards. Yes do you really need ten, I know. But you do. And well how much of the set wanted to go to that stuff, rather than say new kingdom cards? So in the end I just did two of those. Now you know one of them.

4613
Incidentally I am tentatively putting up the previews at 6 AM Pacific Time on the day they're due, rather than at midnight like last time. I want to be consistent as to what time they go up, and while I'm up at midnight today, I will not be for each of the days in question. So, those of you who would have been up will have another six hours to wait. On the plus side, if you're on the east coast, you will not be tempted to stay up until 3 AM.

4614
Dominion Isotropic / Re: Iso being down = preparing for Dark Ages?
« on: August 04, 2012, 12:01:12 am »
It was a cool fun thing that you got to play with two new Hinterlands cards each day as the previews showed up. I am glad you guys enjoyed that thing in the past. There are cool fun things in the present too, but not that one.

-1
If you had never had that fun thing in the past, you wouldn't be sad not to get it again. Sadly we don't live in that impossible utopia.

4615
Rules Questions / Re: Black market bane
« on: August 03, 2012, 10:54:31 am »
I think the question they want answered is, what do you do if you need to pick a Bane card for Young Witch, but literally every single $2 or $3 card is already in the Black Market deck? I'm pretty sure the answer is, don't be an idiot, select a Bane card and take it out of the Black Market deck.
Do as much as you can. I had a hunch.

You don't need Black Market for this. Bring Prosperity, Cornucopia, and the base cards to a game night. Deal out a set of cards that includes Young Witch and every $2 or $3 you've got.

In practice I think no-one would ever have any problem whatsoever producing a Bane if somehow this came up.

4616
Dominion Isotropic / Re: Iso being down = preparing for Dark Ages?
« on: August 03, 2012, 09:51:19 am »
It was a cool fun thing that you got to play with two new Hinterlands cards each day as the previews showed up. I am glad you guys enjoyed that thing in the past. There are cool fun things in the present too, but not that one.

4617
Rules Questions / Re: Black market bane
« on: August 03, 2012, 05:25:00 am »
I wonder if we can beetlejuice Donald X. (Donald X. Donald X.) into this thread. Seems like a good time for it.
I am not sure what question you want answered. Does it involve reading all these posts about Black Market? I hope not. Do as much as you can, is that the answer?

4618
Dung Seller
$4 Action - Attack

+$1

Each other player gains a curse or reveals a hand with no curses. You get +$1 for each curse gained this way.
Dung Cellar
$2
Action
+1 Action
Discard any number of cards. Trash that many cards from your hand.

that is not a card from Dark Ages, why do I even have to say this

4619
Dominion Isotropic / Re: Iso being down = preparing for Dark Ages?
« on: August 03, 2012, 05:07:23 am »
Just had that thought.  Donald X has said (if I remember correctly) that Dark Ages cards will show up on iso concurrent with the previews, as long as FunSockets isn't officially released yet.  Could it be that the server trouble iso seems to be having is related to those forthcoming additions?
I know nothing of this server trouble, but at this point I do not expect public isotropic to ever get Dark Ages cards.

4620
Goko Dominion Online / Re: Playdominion.com/base exists now, sort of
« on: August 02, 2012, 12:11:45 am »
But, like I said before, even if you and your partners in the new site were willing to consider such an idea, I have no idea how you would pull it off.
Well Valve is doing a game paid for entirely with hats, right? Who knows what the future holds.

You can play Dominion for free online as long as you find someone else who bought the expansions, and play with them. You can also just play with the main set, that's free. That was what we could manage. I think clearly being able to play Dominion both online and irl has value over only being able to play irl, and people will pay for that value. We aren't trying to bleed them. I mean, compare other forms of entertainment.

I can understand people wanting a digital copy of a book for free, because in the best-case scenario it really was free, it was in digital form when the author and editor handed it off, so there's just bandwidth and hosting to pay for. For Dominion you can want it for free on the grounds that someone happened to put in the effort for free to give it to you (not counting the fact that they started with the physical product). But any online thing we actually made, people were going to put in many hours on, doing it as a job, utterly unlike those digital books.

4621
Goko Dominion Online / Re: Playdominion.com/base exists now, sort of
« on: August 01, 2012, 08:54:37 pm »
Note that Wizards has created a very different model with MTG Online, and I think a lot of people see that and imagine other companies will pick up on it.  But I think it's only reasonable with a CCG/TCG, not so much with a Eurogame.
You mean the model where buying cards online is exactly as expensive as buying physical cards? We have chosen to make our online versions cheaper.

4622
Goko Dominion Online / Re: Playdominion.com/base exists now, sort of
« on: August 01, 2012, 07:42:20 pm »
Donald, if you are still reading this, are you able to confirm or deny that players who own an expansion IRL will have free access to it online?
Like every computer game ever, owning the board game version confers no special privileges online.

4623
Also - query: will the Base Cards set be updated to include Shelters and Ruins?
No.

4624
Dominion General Discussion / Re: A Discussion about Cutpurse
« on: July 26, 2012, 06:27:50 pm »
It's because I was thinking about a spiced up alternative to Cutpurse and was wondering why the original was like it is.
Cutpurse is like that because it's a direct descendant of "cards cost $1 less this turn and then $1 more until your next turn." I was worried it might be too much in multiples but decided it wasn't. I was at the time eager to make discarding attacks that were cumulative, to avoid tacking on "with four or more cards in hand" or some such each time, and to make them seem less similar to Militia. I did not find too many ways to make cumulative discard, so later ones go back to copying Militia.

4625
Dominion General Discussion / Re: A Discussion about Cutpurse
« on: July 26, 2012, 09:15:24 am »
Well, yes, but such a thing can also be said about Torturer, yet that card still made it.
I guess that's because it leaves the choice to the attacked player and a Curse is not that bad as players might think.

3 Noble Brigands from the other players can steal 3 of your Golds.
The multiplayer argument is somewhat weak to me.

You could always make it harder to stack by tweaking it to say: Each other player with 4(/5?) or more cards in hand discards a Treasure (or reveals a hand with no Treasure).
Torturer is held in check by the option to take Curse. I don't see how Noble Brigand is relevant to this discussion.

I have had the experience. "Each other player discards a treasure" doesn't work. You can argue that in a two-player game where I can build a deck that manages to play three of those a turn, probably my opponent has built something that can deal with it in the meantime; that argument does nothing for the multiplayer case, which is completely real.

Yes, "each other player with 4-5 or more cards in hand" is one of the ways to fix it. That's how Militia got "discards down to 3." So then, instead of "Each other player discards a Copper (or reveals a hand with no Copper)," it could have been, "Each other player with four or more cards in hand discards a Treasure (or reveals a hand with no Treasure)." They will usually discard Copper. Why not just make it official and have a simpler card? The only reason to do it differently would have been if stacking Cutpurses had actually been a problem.

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