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3901

Dominion: Adventures Previews / Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance

« on: April 03, 2015, 06:22:45 pm »

Wait, so Events aren't cards, right? They're Events... which means they aren't affected by Possession's card gaining clause. So you could Borrow while Possessing somebody else's turn, and they'd have to pay it back for their turn. Cool.

Also, if you buy Mission in a turn you played Possession during, does that mean you can order the turns? So you could Possess them, then play your Mission turn, Possess them again and buy another Mission, and it would give you another turn because the previous turn was the opponent's, who was Possessed. Basically, an infinite combo, so long as you can both reliably play Possession and $4.

You don't get to order Mission vs. Possession, because one is your turn and one is someone else's. They happen in turn order (like passing out Curses). Same as for Outpost, which is covered in the Alchemy rulebook.

3902

Dominion: Adventures Previews / Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance

« on: April 03, 2015, 06:21:27 pm »

So to clarify: If I transmute Estate-Scout do I gain Gold+Transmute? I suppose not, because the card is already in the trash when the second part of Transmute is resolved. However when I trash Estate-Fortress, it goes back to my hand, doesn't it?

If you Inheritance Scouts and then Transmute an Estate, it was an Action-Victory card, so you gain a Duchy and a Gold.

The rules for Band of Misfits say when you use Procession on it and play it as, e.g., Fortress, you "gain an Action card costing exactly $6 ($1 more than Band of Misfits, which has left play and so is no longer copying Fortress)." So there, you don't care about what a thing was at the time it was trashed, but what it is at the time you're evaluating the instruction.

But here, you say you do care about what a thing was when it was trashed.

What's the difference? Do you check costs at the time of evaluation, but types at the time of trashing?

The key difference is how much time I have spent on these questions and what materials I had access to at the time.

I don't see a conversation with Doug about it, so possibly it just randomly ended up that way on isotropic.

Let's say that Transmute is referring to the state of the card at the moment it checks (like Procession); thus it will no longer be your Estate with all that means.

When-trashed things however trigger when trashed and so will happen even if the card loses that ability then.

3903

Dominion: Adventures Previews / Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance

« on: April 03, 2015, 06:12:23 pm »

But when does the card become "mine"?

It's yours if you started with it, or bought it, or gained it, or were passed it.

It stops being yours if you trash it, or return it, or pass it.

I don't have the rulebook handy so maybe I am missing something. Aha, it's also yours/not due to exchanges.

It also stops being yours when you are preventing from getting it due to Possession or Trader.

3904

Dominion: Adventures Previews / Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance

« on: April 03, 2015, 02:03:59 pm »

Does an Inherited Border Village force a gain of less than $2 when buying Estates (I would think so, but confirming nonetheless.)?

If that's what the Estate costs when you buy it then yes.

3905

Dominion: Adventures Previews / Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance

« on: April 03, 2015, 02:03:25 pm »

Assuming a Bridge/Highway in play to set up the initial Inheritance (yes, it still cost $7, but it's target can reduce in price), the following is correct?

"I can't wait to Inherit Hunting Grounds, trash my Estate, and gain 3 more... Hunting Grounds!

That on-gain should work, as the effect happens after you own it (thus changing it's nature), and before it hits the trash (reverting it back to an Estate). Yes?"

When you trash the Estate you can gain 3 Estates, which you can refer to as Hunting Groundses because we all know what you mean even though in fact they are Estates.

3906

Dominion: Adventures Previews / Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance

« on: April 03, 2015, 02:01:42 pm »

Is there any reason why Inheritance is restricted to once per game?  Too much flexibility once your deck is full of Estates?

It was something you would rarely want to do, that caused horrible rules issues.

3907

Dominion: Adventures Previews / Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance

« on: April 03, 2015, 02:00:20 pm »

So to clarify: If I transmute Estate-Scout do I gain Gold+Transmute? I suppose not, because the card is already in the trash when the second part of Transmute is resolved. However when I trash Estate-Fortress, it goes back to my hand, doesn't it?

If you Inheritance Scouts and then Transmute an Estate, it was an Action-Victory card, so you gain a Duchy and a Gold. If you Inheritance Fortress and trash Estate, it goes back to your hand. In the case of Fortress, it was a Fortress when you trashed it, so the ability triggered. In the case of Transmute, I can see thinking that it's no longer an Action when we check. I don't have the rulebook handy now and am just going by isotropic; Doug tends to ask all these questions too.

3908

Dominion: Adventures Previews / Re: Preview: Giant

« on: April 03, 2015, 01:44:06 pm »

Ummm, maybe I'm missing something, but how do you get the journey token in the first place?

You buy a copy of Adventures. It has 6 of them.

3909

Dominion: Adventures Previews / Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance

« on: April 03, 2015, 01:31:32 pm »

But when does the card become "mine"?

It's yours if you started with it, or bought it, or gained it, or were passed it.

It stops being yours if you trash it, or return it, or pass it.

I don't have the rulebook handy so maybe I am missing something. Aha, it's also yours/not due to exchanges.

3910

Dominion: Adventures Previews / Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance

« on: April 03, 2015, 01:29:47 pm »

This all looks really cool, but - considering that not long ago Donald X adamantly insisted that the "who did" should have been left out of Soothsayer for simplicity and accessibility (in the easy-for-regular-folks-to-understand sense) - it seems like Dominion has taken a giant leap away from simplicity and accessibility.

It's all a question of what you get out of your complexity. You want it to count. Those extra words on Soothsayer get you very little. Inheritance existing gets you Inheritance.

3911

Dominion: Adventures Previews / Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance

« on: April 03, 2015, 01:27:56 pm »

Ironworks on an inherited Estate will give you the extra bonuses, right?

I play Ironworks, choosing Estate.  It is now my Estate, so now has extra types granted by Inheritance.  I would get +1 Card, +1 Action.

What if my Estates inherited Great Hall?  Inheritance says that it gains the types of the chosen card, so should Estate gain Victory type as well?  Does Estate become Action-Victory-Victory?  And if so, would Ironworks for Estate grant +2 Cards, +1 Action?  I think that it technically should become Action-Victory-Victory, but Ironworks would not grant an extra +1 Card because the Ironworks check just returns "true", not "double true".

Ironworks will get you the bonuses for turning Estate into an Action, but never gives double for a bonus. It's either a Victory card or it isn't; if it is you get +1 Card.

Also you can't inherit Great Halls.

3912

Dominion: Adventures Previews / Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance

« on: April 03, 2015, 01:26:08 pm »

So, stupid question, let's say I Inherit Death Cart, then buy an Estate. Do I get two Ruins? I was asked this and I said no because the Estate isn't "yours" until after you gain it, so on-gain effects don't trigger (Nomad Camp, Embassy, BV, Noble Brigand, that kind of thing) but I tried to go looking for that ruling and I couldn't find anything definitive. What was that ruling again?

Yes you get the Ruinses. The Estate is "yours" from the moment you buy it; when-buy and when-gain abilities trigger.

3913

Dominion: Adventures Previews / Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance

« on: April 03, 2015, 01:25:00 pm »

Well I didn't mean all Victories, but allowing all Actions (currently) only allows Nobles, Island, Great Halls.. is that that huge?  Yeah, well, I guess it can double the VP of Estates or turn them into Duchies.  Alright.

Yeah I have had the experience. You will be inheriting some Islands.

3914

Dominion: Adventures Previews / Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance

« on: April 03, 2015, 01:24:00 pm »

What happens when you put your +1 Action token (or other positive token) on Band of Misfits?  BoM sort of transforms as you are playing it, so it will always be something else when played (unless there is no valid target).  I'm guessing you still get the token bonus first because, whatever BoM becomes, it is still from the BoM pile.

Band gives you benefits both from tokens on itself, and tokens on the card you play it as. You play Band as a specific card, which is from a specific pile.

3915

Dominion: Adventures Previews / Re: Preview: Messenger

« on: April 03, 2015, 01:16:08 pm »

Has Donald ruled on the Messenger/Trader issue and I missed it?

No.

"It" is the card you gained, so if you Trader that card no-one else gets anything. You can Trader the Messenger itself without disrupting anything.

3916

Dominion: Adventures Previews / Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance

« on: April 03, 2015, 01:11:11 pm »

Why non-Victory Actions?  Because of potential ambiguity with how many VPs its worth?  Or because the idea is to turn a Victory into an Action-Victory and, well, those are already Action-Victories?

Also, why not allow Treasures?

Inheriting a Victory card is confusing but also too automatic. It's a big VP windfall so of course you do it.

Inheriting treasures was possible for a while. It's wordier and you don't get much extra from being able to do it.

3917

Dominion: Adventures Previews / Re: Preview: Giant

« on: April 03, 2015, 01:02:17 pm »

Of course, having to get +1 coin first is very bad

You get the +5 coins first.

No. The token starts face up. You turn it face down. You get +$1.

3918

Dominion: Adventures Previews / Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance

« on: April 03, 2015, 12:53:18 pm »

Can an Estate Map be trashed from your hand using a Treasure Map or Estate Map?

Treasure Map does not let you trash Estates.

3919

Dominion: Adventures Previews / Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance

« on: April 03, 2015, 12:52:31 pm »

So, one can't get +3 action with Estate Crossroad because playing an estate is not "your first time you play a crossroad"?

Correct.

3920

Dominion: Adventures Previews / Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance

« on: April 03, 2015, 12:47:41 pm »

So if "Your Estates turn into another card" does that mean they literally inherit the card text? So your Sir Martin Estates attack like a Knight, but if you are attacked by a Knight, Sir Martin the Green escapes because he only costs $2?

But if you put your Estate token on Treasure Map, that means you can collide two "Estates" with each other or one with a real Treasure Map and trash both cards just las if they were real?

"Your Estates turn into another card" is a convenient inaccurate shorthand. Your Estates gain the abilities and types of the card. They don't copy anything else, including cost, or name, or "what pile was that from."

So Sir Martin Estates have the types of Sir Martin, and give +2 Buys and attack like he does. They can die to other Knights if they hit one, but other Knights attacking skip over them since they cost $2.

Your Estates gain the abilities of Treasure Map but are Estates rather than Treasure Maps, so they don't find you any treasure.

3921

Dominion: Adventures Previews / Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance

« on: April 03, 2015, 10:52:34 am »

So if I have a -1 Card token on my deck and play a Mystic, it'll reveal that -1 Card token, or the card under it?  If it's the latter, that means it removes the token instead of drawing a correctly guessed card?

The token isn't a card so it isn't revealed when revealing cards. Revealing a card doesn't remove the token. Mystic doesn't draw a card, it puts a card into your hand. It's just not affected by the token other than managing it physically.

3922

Dominion: Adventures Previews / Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance

« on: April 03, 2015, 10:50:33 am »

So are the tokens part of the base setup now, or are they only in use when there is an event that calls for any specific token?

The tokens are only used when they're used! I'm not sure what you're thinking of doing with them when nothing uses them.

3923

Dominion: Adventures Previews / Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance

« on: April 03, 2015, 10:49:28 am »

I am guessing that the +1 action token is no longer effective once the supply pile you put it on its empty (a la band of misfits)? Or is it viable for the rest of the game, regardless?

I suppose it is still effective, as you set aside the card (and also it would prevent that card to be bought and count towards emptying the pile).

That's why it prevents setting aside Victory cards. If not, you could set aside the last Province for $7 if you want to trigger the end of the game.

Lost Arts does not set aside a card; Inheritance does.

Inheritance doesn't allow Victory cards because they were too automatic. It's also confusing.

3924

Dominion: Adventures Previews / Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance

« on: April 03, 2015, 10:45:11 am »

What happen when you put estate token on Sir Martin? (And ruins)?
What happen when the pile of knight or ruins run out?

You set aside the card with the token. So Inheritance on Sir Martin makes your Estates into Sir Martins and that's that; the other Knights aren't involved. Inheritance on Ruined Market makes your Estates produce +1 Buy, etc.

It doesn't matter what happens to the pile you got the card you Inheritanced. Inheritance works on a card not on a pile, and that card is set aside and in front of you. Which was necessary to handle the Knights and Ruins.

3925

Dominion: Adventures Previews / Re: Previews #5 - Lost Arts, Borrow, Inheritance

« on: April 03, 2015, 10:41:35 am »

How does the -1 Card token work with Venture and Loan? Do they fail to draw their Treasure?

The token only affects drawing, with the additional caveat that Envoy is misworded and does not draw those cards. So Venture for example works normally, and leaves the token on your deck (or, to handle it physically, you take the token off and then put it back, but in game terms it never left).