Nothing memorable. At allTA is without a doubt scum. What has he done the entire game except tunnel me? Oh that's right, another bad case...
If you read the thread, I'm sure you will find a lot I've done D1. Just because I've had you as my top read for most of the day does not mean I haven't been forming other reads and commenting on other cases.
But you didn't vote until yuma did. You could have voted for lio earlier. You didn't. You felt that yuma had given you permission to do so. Even though for all we know--and I suspect this might be the case--he has nothing against lio and is trying to trap someone.That's right robz....go ahead and tell me how I feel
Let me get this right...you defend scum and tunnel town eh?I don't get why you would find efhw scummy for discussinG something TA brought up! That seems to have gotten lost in your semantics debate...This doesn't look like a scumslip to me. Why did I end up reading at least a page worth of posts about semantics? It looks pretty apparent that EFHW is talking about the possibility of something happening, and it looks like speculation, not knowledge.
I disagree. That's all.
Why does it matter that TA brought it up initially? He's not finding EFHW scummy because she brought up the possibility, he's finding EFHW scummy because he thinks EFHW is talking about it not like it's a possibility, but like she already has info that such a power is in the game.
Why don't you answer that question?My guess is that it will only make you a bigger lynch target X...a sentiment I might agree with, since I'm not really down with your item request. (I have no idea what you're trying to make)....
What's your read on Xeiron, SB? Would you be okay lynching him?
I did answer these questions (except the last one) I don't have to repeat myself for your satisfaction. That you keep claiming I didn't is a flat out lie...and remains my number one reason for you being scumOf course you want to push a town lynch with that pathetic "case"....Quote from: ashersky link=topic=8002.msg263833#msg263833 positive 2651431I still think you all should consider spiritbears. I still have yet to hear a good defense from spiritbears, or from anyone else for that matter. Every time I bring it up no one answers
I've got nothing. If it gets down to it, and he's on the chopping block, I won't stop it.
Seems like we've got several people in this position, but no one other than me (and maybe Nkirbit and Ahoppy) willing to push the wagon.
Would it help people consider it if I posted the case again? I'll look elsewhere (probably at Xeiron) if necessary, but I would really like to get the SB wagon going, I really do think he's by far the likeliest to turn up scum.
I think it should be noted how agrrssive you continue to be towards me. Despite my contributions to this game...(whether you think they are positive eor not)...
Spiritbears, I get that the case seems obviously incorrect to you (it should if you're town!), but the thing is, if you're town, no other town member knows that! You have to prove to us that we're town, since we have as much reason to suspect you as anymore else in the game. Calling the case pathetic, without answer the question, does nothing to appease the case itself, and in most cases is more likely to make people think it's more likely that you are indeed scum.
I have been pushing your case (I would argue that I'm being aggressive) because you have yet to answer my questions, which I have made directly at you, instead arguing that my case is obviously wrong. To me, it's not obviously wrong! Even if you think I'm being ridiculous, terribly wrong, and misguided in accusing you, which of course is a possibility, you have a vested interest in trying to convince me that I'm wrong, and showing me where and why I'm wrong. Just saying my case is ridiculous and pathetic doesn't do this, in any way. If you really are town, you are doing nothing to discredit the case by simply calling it wrong -- you have to prove to me, and to everyone else, WHY it's wrong.
Until you answer these questions, I will continue to have a scum read on you, and continue to push for your lynch. I thought you were scummy when I made the case, even if it's a D1 case and not the strongest one, and I will continue to think you are scummy until I have a good reason not to. Continually calling my case weak is not a good reason to give you a more towny read -- it's something that you would do as both scum and town, in my opinion.
The questions I'd like answered:
Why did you have a town read on EFHW?
Why did you support her point of view over Shraeye in the EFHW / Shraeye argument?
What are your current reads on both EFHW and Shraeye?
You and mcmc were clearly following yuma's vote, which carried no explanation. Mcmc's quick justification of the sheeping rings false to me. You, I tihnk, are merely wrong.Exactly how does MC (and me according to your twisted view) sheep Yuma when Yuma gives no reason for his vote??? You are claiming sheep vote when the people that came second and third gave reasons and the first did not!
it does come off as maybe you had an idea, weren't sure about it, but then Yuma validated that you were "right" kind of. Or maybe you're scum who didn't want to start the wagon, wanted to choose someone who you think you could get mislynched.Lio this is just patently false. I voted after MC--. Gave a reason (and did so prior) and gave a mote detailed answer IMMEDIATELY after.....he's saying that Yuma voted without explanation, which is TRUE.Right, I know that both you and mcmc have reasons, but you didn't vote until yuma signalled he was against lio--without explanation! Which is very interesting, and does not reflect well on either of you.Again..."without explanation" is FALSE
I think says much more about you....that you arent willing to admit you're wrong when I point it out....that or you're trying to twist it for your own scum purposesAgain..."without explanation" is FALSEYes you are....as usual. Then when I point out how you're wrong (for promoting that I voted without "hearing a reason", hint: I already had my own (if you had bothered to read my interaction with lio)... you'd say, oh, that's legit....except thst if comes from me, you write it off...if it comes from someone else....different storyWhat do you mean what...you only made one statementThat the kindof uncareful thinking we are used to you promoting robz...or should I say scumrobz...
What?
I'm not promoting uncareful thinking.
Right, I know that both you and mcmc have reasons, but you didn't vote until yuma signalled he was against lio--without explanation! Which is very interesting, and does not reflect well on either of you.
Yuma, without explanation, signaled he was against lio.
Again..."without explanation" is FALSEYes you are....as usual. Then when I point out how you're wrong (for promoting that I voted without "hearing a reason", hint: I already had my own (if you had bothered to read my interaction with lio)... you'd say, oh, that's legit....except thst if comes from me, you write it off...if it comes from someone else....different storyWhat do you mean what...you only made one statementThat the kindof uncareful thinking we are used to you promoting robz...or should I say scumrobz...
What?
I'm not promoting uncareful thinking.
Right, I know that both you and mcmc have reasons, but you didn't vote until yuma signalled he was against lio--without explanation! Which is very interesting, and does not reflect well on either of you.
Yes you are....as usual. Then when I point out how you're wrong (for promoting that I voted without "hearing a reason", hint: I already had my own (if you had bothered to read my interaction with lio)... you'd say, oh, that's legit....except thst if comes from me, you write it off...if it comes from someone else....different storyWhat do you mean what...you only made one statementThat the kindof uncareful thinking we are used to you promoting robz...or should I say scumrobz...
What?
I'm not promoting uncareful thinking.
What do you mean what...you only made one statementThat the kindof uncareful thinking we are used to you promoting robz...or should I say scumrobz...
What?
1) you're asking the wrong question. The question is exactly how did I hurt town by hammering a player that had been at l-1 for quite a while, had plenty of chances to fight for his life and refused, had plenty of chances to give reads, claim etc. And didn't, etc. Exactly how was nk helping us? The answer is he wasn't. And you defending that kind of play...and going further declaring it scummy to EVER hammer a player in that situation is just not good fir us...it's scummyvote: liopoilwell, okay...
Alas I do not have time to give complete reasonings as to why. I have been at work all day--following along via e-mail's--and will be there again tomorrow until evening when I will be able to post something a bit more substantial.
I'll let you all hypothesize as to why I am voting for him though, that sounds like fun...no. it's the opposite:nkirbit DID defend himself, I can quote his posts for you. I don't think it was his fault he got mislynched, it was the fault of the people on the wagon and the fault of everyone off wagon not defending him. No way should town EVER hammer somebody they have a townread on under any circumstance. This excuse it just way too convenient for spiritbears.Hopefully the same reason I am going to vote: liopoil we just went over how much town needed to stop shooting itself in the foot with statements like this (bolded above) That is way too weak a reason to push a D2 wagon and is not scum hunting or analyzing its theorizing about what is "towny" which has not worked for town recently.
"we just went over how much town needs to stop shooting itself in the foot with statements like this: (No way should town EVER hammer somebody they have a townread on under any circumstance.)"
I'M town shooting myself in the foot? well if I'm town, why are you voting for me? more importantly, how do you know I'm town? clearly you don't think I'm town though, so I don't understand why me "shooting myself in the foot" (which I only "am" according to you if I'm town) is scummy. Are you saying that if I'm town, I'm shooting myself in the foot, but if I'm town, I wouldn't shoot myself in the foot, so I'm scum? That would make perfect sense if I was shooting myself in the foot, but I'm not.
I say that town should never hammer their townread, which I believe to be true. Based on this, spiritbears, if town, wouldn't hammer his townread. because he did something I don't think would happen if he is town, I think he is scum. It's just logic, and I think it's valid logic and a quite strong reason for a lynch on D2. The only potential flaw I see is that perhaps SB did shoot himself in the foot. It seems everyone thinks that he did. I am giving him the assumption that he would not do what I see to be a mistake.
"That is way too weak a reason to push a D2 wagon and is not scum hunting or analyzing its theorizing about what is "towny" which has not worked for town recently."
I don't think it is weak. I think it is a good line of reasoning. It's scumhunting, because I'm town who thinks SB is scum. I'm theorizing about what town would and wouldn't do. the reason it has not worked for town is that town has been playing badly and doing things that town shouldn't do. If town started acting like town it would be a lot easier to lynch scum.
mcmc, why do you think I am scum? the only line of reasoning I can sort of find in your post is that "If liopoil is town he is shooting himself in the foot, he wouldn't shoot himself in the foot, so he's scum". And that, as it happens, is the exact same reasoning I am using to find SB to be scum, which you disagree with yourself.I didn't think it was a fair statement, so I'm glad you weighed in. Although I'm sure he will think I'm OMGUS'ing here (I'm not)I don't think you're OMGUSing. however, I am unclear on why you think I am scum. is it because you disagree with "No way should town EVER hammer somebody they have a townread on under any circumstance."? If so, I have two questions for you:
Vote Lio
1. Why do you disagree? aka, why would hammering a townread ever help you achieve the town wincon? not asking you to change your mind, just wondering.
2. Why does me holding a belief you disagree with make me more likely to be scum?
I didn't think it was a fair statement, so I'm glad you weighed in. Although I'm sure he will think I'm OMGUS'ing here (I'm not)what??
nkirbit DID defend himself, I can quote his posts for you. I don't think it was his fault he got mislynched, it was the fault of the people on the wagon and the fault of everyone off wagon not defending him. No way should town EVER hammer somebody they have a townread on under any circumstance. This excuse it just way too convenient for spiritbears. If we let people state huge townreads on someone and then hammer them then we are giving scum a huge advantage. It's quite simple: town should never hammer their townread. Scum might want to.
Hopefully the same reason I am going to vote: liopoil we just went over how much town needed to stop shooting itself in the foot with statements like this (bolded above) That is way too weak a reason to push a D2 wagon and is not scum hunting or analyzing its theorizing about what is "towny" which has not worked for town recently.
It was mean girls...and right before we mislynched him when his lynch was all but assured. I'm sure he wants us remembering that!I agree with this. mail-mi asked a possibly identical or at least super-similar question in...was is MeanGirls or RMM7. I don't remember, but it was one of those games I was a mod for, and mail-mi was town in both. The resemblence immediately feels suspicious.I agree eevee, but remember last game when he asked this right before we mislynched him? Kindof i think hé is wanting us to think of that though....So ash, can I have some questions to answer to prove I'm not scum?Somehow this feels fake to me. How could there be a question that would prove anything right now?
Ahoppy: For a while, I had him as my top scumread. He was around, but engaged only in theory talk, and would give reads soon after players started to pile pressure on him for not having many reads. I went back and re-read him in Mean Girls, where he was town, and his play was pretty similar to here. He was slightly more active here, but in Mean Girls he didn't build cases anymore. His actions here fit with his actions in mean girls. I'm still slightly worried, as he has been active here, but much less so than before. Slight scum read.So you bang on people for supporting me beause I'm a "slight scum read", but then your analysis of me is that I'm totally scummy (based on TA's false claim I had no reason to vote shraeye)?!
Ashersky: He's been very protown, but I think he might be able to fake that well. He certainly faked it well when he was a watcher in mean girls (Note: Wasn't actually a watcher in mean girls). I recently have issues with differences between how he pursued mail-mi's lynch, but was reluctant to do the same with Xeiron, despite them having very similar metas and similar cases. If Xeiron eventually flips scum, or mail-mi town, this would be something to keep in mind. I also am uncomfortable with how he found Mail-mi scummy for reacting to his jokes about watching in mean girls... it seems like it could have been a trap. But, Xeiron hasn't flipped scum, and mail-mi hasn't flipped town, and he has been a leading force in moving the game forward, so for now, a slightly town read.
Chairs: Very towny. I think his claim is newbie town. See my post #668 if you want more in-depth reasoning. Big town read.
Eevee: He defended SB, who I think is slightly scummy, and mail-mi, who I don't think is that scummy. He defended from Ashersky well, and had good answers to all his points. He's been very open and pro-town, and I have no reason to think that's a facade at this point. Town read.
EFHW: Not really a strong opinion here. Her early argument with Shraeye is a null on both sides to me. I actually can't remember her specific views.. perhaps a re-read is in order soon. Null for now.
Mail-Mi: Has done a few things that have been scummy (the flip-flop on Eevee, asking who to reread), but I don't actually have a huge concern here. The biggest thing is the inconsistent explanation of his vote for Eevee, which was just really odd. He was voting Eevee for inactivity, moved off to ash, revoted for Eevee for inactivity and "feeling off" or something like that, then explaining his vote as being purely for inactivity. It's inconsistent, for sure.
The Eevee thing is all I really have serious problems with. I wouldn't be shocked if he were scum, but I think we can do better.
Slight scum read.
Raerae: Not much recently at all. My town-read from before was based on the fact that she broke up the shraeye-EFHW argument, which was very similar to how she broke up TA and myself in Shakespeare, where she turned out to be town. Town read, but I'd like to see her back and contributing more, along with,
Shraeye: Not much recently either! I had a null-read on him before, and still don't have any reason to think he's scum or town. It is important to note that he was the first one to put us on the track towards lynching inactive players, and at the time gave a list of players that he would not consider lynching. As players start flipping, I think we should keep in mind the categories he listed players as and see if we can detect any patterns. Null read.
Spiritbears: His main stance this game was supporting EFHW as towny as Shraeye as scummy. If I'm remembering correctly, the only stated reason for supporting EFHW is that she was saying a lot of things he agreed with. This SB-EFHW connection is something to keep in mind. What's odd here for SB is that I don't at all know why Shraeye is (was?) a scum-read for him. He never gave us a reason! He put some effort into pushing Shraeye, for example asking Theorel if he was okay with Shraeye pushing a weak case. Placing a vote on someone, pushing for it, but never explaining why you think that player is scummy is off, and scummy.
I don't at all buy the argument that SB's aggressive defense is towny, either. People say that the last time he did this, he was town... well, yeah, but as town he has also not been this aggressive. I think it's possible that SB could be aggressive when pushed regardless of alignment when pushed. Maybe I'm misunderstanding the defense here, but I don't buy it as of now. Scum read.
Theorel: Missing for so long. Was dead null before his absence, and even more null now. As null as it gets.
TwistedArcher: Initially, I had a feeling that he was "off". But looking back, I'm not 100% sure why. He drove a case fairly hard against SB, which is exactly the same thing he did Day1 in Shakespeare against myself, Day2 in Pirates against mail-mi, etc. He may or may not be right, but town!TA builds cases like that. He's asking good questions, participating actively, and I find myself agreeing with a lot of the things he says lately. I don't have any reasons to think he's scum at this point. Town read.
Xeiron: I think how he responded to Ash's case on raerae by voting raerae was scummy. He made so many assumptions when giving his reasoning.. that ash *might* be a town member who *might* be insinuating that he *might* have info on raerae. What?? And then he comes on and gives Theorel's math a challenge, that's also bad and appears like he didn't impartially read the post.
My only concern is the 12 post thing. This is my least favorite part about forum mafia.. when you play in real life, everyone is there, and you can ask them anything at any time. Here, we have to play around people's availabilities, and participation is very self-driven. I think it is quite possible that town!Xeiron is disinterested. But I still think we have a better case on him than anyone else, and he's my preferred lynch. Scum read.
Of course you want to push a town lynch with that pathetic "case"....Quote from: ashersky link=topic=8002.msg263833#msg263833 positive 2651431I still think you all should consider spiritbears. I still have yet to hear a good defense from spiritbears, or from anyone else for that matter. Every time I bring it up no one answers
I've got nothing. If it gets down to it, and he's on the chopping block, I won't stop it.
Seems like we've got several people in this position, but no one other than me (and maybe Nkirbit and Ahoppy) willing to push the wagon.
Would it help people consider it if I posted the case again? I'll look elsewhere (probably at Xeiron) if necessary, but I would really like to get the SB wagon going, I really do think he's by far the likeliest to turn up scum.
I don't get why you would find efhw scummy for discussinG something TA brought up! That seems to have gotten lost in your semantics debate...This doesn't look like a scumslip to me. Why did I end up reading at least a page worth of posts about semantics? It looks pretty apparent that EFHW is talking about the possibility of something happening, and it looks like speculation, not knowledge.
I disagree. That's all.
Sorry. I'm trying to catch up. And I really really really hate to pull a robz but I don't trust my reads prior to my meltdown. I need to reevaluate. But from whst so have reread so far (damn this toooooooooo many pages!), I still read efhw and Raerse as town and I don't buy the case in Eevee...he seems like town!eevee to me. Nk sheeping TA's reads worries me, and I want to trust ash....but am scared of being burned again...this could easily be scum!ash leading us down a path of self destructionYes, this!Quote from: EFHW link=todhow t 8002.msg263808#msg263808 date=1372648412sb has been extremely quiet - came back to apologize to Ahoppy and that was it. We don't want you to quit sb, we want to play and have fun!
Second!
I agree eevee, but remember last game when he asked this right before we mislynched him? Kindof i think hé is wanting us to think of that though....So ash, can I have some questions to answer to prove I'm not scum?Somehow this feels fake to me. How could there be a question that would prove anything right now?
what??Well thanks for the lesson lio
nkirbit DID defend himself, I can quote his posts for you. I don't think it was his fault he got mislynched, it was the fault of the people on the wagon and the fault of everyone off wagon not defending him. No way should town EVER hammer somebody they have a townread on under any circumstance. This excuse it just way too convenient for spiritbears. If we let people state huge townreads on someone and then hammer them then we are giving scum a huge advantage. It's quite simple: town should never hammer their townread. Scum might want to.
