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4201

Rules Questions / Re: Guilds rules?

« on: June 16, 2013, 01:07:06 pm »

Missleading for contraband.

I thought about that, but I can't really see how it would help.

Play three coin tokens, then contraband.  Opponent thinks it's all the money you have (and you played the contraband last for some reason), and names gold.  You play a Silver, buy province.

How is this better than not paying the coin tokens until afterward? Your opponent knows how many coin tokens you have, regardless. And this way, if they do call your bluff and say Province, you've wasted two tokens that you could have saved for later.

Maybe you want to influence their behavior and make them believe you've got enough for Province while you don't? Or vice versa. It's only mindgames, but wanting to know if they are allowed at all is certainly enough to refute "Who cares, there's never any reason to spend Coin tokens till after you've played your Treasures.".

4202

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Gainer with self-synergy: Factory (not playtested)

« on: June 16, 2013, 11:28:16 am »

The problem with this card is that gaining any gainer in hand will possibly enable endless chains. Even without it having the ability to gain itself, it's still possible with Ironworks, Horn of Plenty and hands with a Throne Room and two Factories on a Workshop board.

And those are just simple "gain up to" gainers. Think Altar or Soothsayer.

4203

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Sylas' card ideas

« on: June 16, 2013, 07:04:50 am »

how do you work out that it costs $6? i can't find any card as an example.

@SirPeebles
yes, in coins. i've no knowledge of Potions costs i'm afraid.

Potion costs from Alchemy are something different than coins. 2$ and a Potion is more than 2$, but neither 2$P nor 4$ is more expensive than the other - it just can't be compared. Which is why "the highest costing card" can be meaningless if there are cards that cost Potions. You'd have to say "The card with the highest (coin symbol) cost".

4204

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: An "on-reveal"-card that is not in the supply

« on: June 15, 2013, 02:58:50 pm »

A Hunting Party stack is already able to draw all of the cards that matter, so draw-on-reveal shouldn't make it particularly more powerful. As I said in the other thread, gaining a Gold is better than drawing a card. And I'm reasonably sure that there are more ways to discard than to reveal.

Why, i guess it's possible to make a card that does that and works. It's not gonna be this one and not me who does it, though. I don't need another Tunnel. You are free to do what you wish, and i'd not say it can't work - in case it seemed like i meant that.

4205

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Librarian: A quick card idea inspired by Advisor

« on: June 15, 2013, 01:57:57 pm »

Reveal tour hand. Your opponent chooses any number of the revealed cards to discard.




This wording has the opponent explicitly doing the discard, which should be clearer.

It isn't and also has issues with Tunnel.

4206

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: An "on-reveal"-card that is not in the supply

« on: June 15, 2013, 01:54:17 pm »

Two-card combos, when connected, are allowed to be >= individual $5 cards; for example, Village+Smithy is equal to two Laboratories. The point is that you have to connect them.

Goes for Menagerie, maybe even Adventurer. Still not for Golem and Hunting Party.

Anyways, make any "on-reveal" cards you wish. I don't think powering Hunting Party up even more is interesting, i'd rather make Spy and Bureacrat better and weaken HP.

4207

Rules Questions / Re: Throne Room/King's Court/Procession + Outpost

« on: June 15, 2013, 12:31:45 pm »

Hmmm, I'm thinking that the wiki is mistaken about that. I could be wrong though... I know that Donald said that a card stays out if it was used to modify a duration card... But did the Throne Room modify the Tactician? I guess I'm not sure... It was used to play the Tactician, so I think that would be enough. But the Tactician's effect wouldn't be modified either....

If we think about why we let Throne Room stay in play with a Duration, it's as a reminder to double a cards effect - that is, Throne Room will have an effect next turn. Herald and Golem have none, and so they will be discarded.

As Durations stay in play because they have an effect next turn (or at least, like Outpost, after your cleanup), it is plausible that any card this goes for stays in play, and any that doesn't, does not. So my answer is that Throne Room stays in play for the same reason as any Duration, and has to go for the same reason if it doesn't.

Mentioning this in the rulebook would probably be confusing, as players would wonder what other cards than Durations have an effect next turn. Just clarifying a Throne Room rule is easier. I'm still sure normal Actions are no different than Durations in that respect.

TLDR: Lika a Duration, Throne Room only stays in play if it does something at your next turn.

4208

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Overpaying for Anything!

« on: June 15, 2013, 11:59:40 am »

I wanted to suggest overpay-topdecking, so you could make Nomad Camp out of Woodcutter. Then i noticed this is exactly what Herald does.

4209

Rules Questions / Re: Guilds rules?

« on: June 15, 2013, 11:36:52 am »

Say, were older rules also with "She, the player"? I don't mind it, and i guess if most of the time it's "he", why shouldn't you use "she" from time to time. It DID surprise me, though.

Edit: I don't own the english rules.

4210

Rules Questions / Re: Guilds rules?

« on: June 15, 2013, 11:35:20 am »

Hmm, I notice that the Guilds rules say specifically that coin tokens earned with e.g. Baker can't be put on your Pirate Ship mat, but it doesn't say that coin tokens earned with Pirate Ship can't be spent like any other coin tokens. I assume this is an oversight in the rule-book editing process.

Still, it does mean that, retroactively, Pirate Ship is now a card whose effect is different from what the card actually says.

I believe that everything on mats is totally inaccessible without special card effect; e.g. island makes you put something on island mat and then make you take it back at the end of the game or native village lets you put or take, but otherwise you cannot do anything with it. And I think that coins from pirate ship are on pirate ship mat, right?

The Pirate Ship card doesn't tell you to put the coin tokens on the Pirate Ship mat. It just says "take a Coin token", same as what Baker says.

Really? Oh, okay. That surely isn't meant, but it's ugly.

4211

Rules Questions / Re: Guilds rules?

« on: June 15, 2013, 11:29:30 am »

Hmm, I notice that the Guilds rules say specifically that coin tokens earned with e.g. Baker can't be put on your Pirate Ship mat, but it doesn't say that coin tokens earned with Pirate Ship can't be spent like any other coin tokens. I assume this is an oversight in the rule-book editing process.

Still, it does mean that, retroactively, Pirate Ship is now a card whose effect is different from what the card actually says.

I believe that everything on mats is totally inaccessible without special card effect; e.g. island makes you put something on island mat and then make you take it back at the end of the game or native village lets you put or take, but otherwise you cannot do anything with it. And I think that coins from pirate ship are on pirate ship mat, right?

I think so. I mean, if it wasn't that way, we could have used coin tokens from Pirate Ship in our buy phase all along. You can't simply take cards from your Native Village mat, either.

4212

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: An "on-reveal"-card that is not in the supply

« on: June 15, 2013, 11:24:00 am »

The "reveal zone", as Goko implements it, seems to be the way forward.

"When you reveal this, take a coin token" does sound OK until you mention Hunting Party. Hunting Party can reveal every card in the deck multiple times per turn, since each reveals your whole hand and then most of your deck.

Menagerie with one of them in hand becomes a Coin token cantrip like Baker, but for 3$ and with possibly more than one coin and possibly more cards. I also wouldn't mind Golem and Adventurer.


It also makes Scout better.

4213

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Librarian: A quick card idea inspired by Advisor

« on: June 15, 2013, 11:16:07 am »

Seems fairly weak anyway, weaker than Advisor for me (because the non-stacking makes it have a lot less self-synergy), although it combos pretty well with disappearing money or even cantrip money. Maybe at $3? Or put something else on it, like +Buy?

True. Even with the other wording he wouldn't let you discard anything with a terrible hand and everything with a great one. On mediocre hands the meant reading is very restrictive and even worse than a normal bad hand. It's like self-attacking. The other reading is likely best at mediocre hands, though your opponent may still simply tell you to discard nothing.

I'd change it to the other version and maybe(!) give it a minimum of 1, so he'll never let you discard nothing (which seems like the best option for your opponent most of the time). This should buff it.

Librarian:
Action - $4
+1 Action
Reveal your hand. The player to your left names a number greater than 0. Discard that number of cards.
Draw until you have 6 cards in hand.

Edit: On the other hand, that might be as good as Lab quite often.

4214

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Librarian: A quick card idea inspired by Advisor

« on: June 15, 2013, 10:22:26 am »

Librarian:
Action - $4
+1 Action
Reveal your hand. The player to your left chooses any number of cards for you to discard.
Draw until you have 6 cards in hand.

That's the only change I would make. I think the wording is otherwise fine.

I don't. Without the clarification i would absolutely have played this as "The player to your left chooses any number. Discard that number of cards."

4215

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Librarian: A quick card idea inspired by Advisor

« on: June 15, 2013, 09:11:34 am »

Does he choose specific cards for you to discard, or just specify the number of discards?

The former. How do I word it better?

I liked the other one, too

4216

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: A Guilds/Prosperity card

« on: June 15, 2013, 09:04:09 am »

In Dominion, the coin/VP ratio becomes better the more expensive a card is. Estate is worth half the coins, Duchy is worth 60%, Province is worth 75% and Colony about 90%. If you can manage to build such an engine, why shouldn't you be rewarded?

You should, that was my point. I was arguing exactly the same to defend the card.

I know, i cited you to back up my point for others (liopoil) to read. I'm a internet-illiterate sometimes.

4217

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: A Guilds/Prosperity card

« on: June 14, 2013, 06:23:57 pm »

When I saw this, at first I thought it was a cantrip Monument. But it isn't. Carry on

No wonder, i forgot the seperator above the VPs. Edited.

4218

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: A Guilds/Prosperity card

« on: June 14, 2013, 06:06:19 pm »

...at $16, strictly better than double-province...

But not better than Colony/Duchy

And as soulnet points out:

After all, Province is strictly better than double-Duchy and Duchy is strinctly better than double-Estate.

In Dominion, the coin/VP ratio becomes better the more expensive a card is. Estate is worth half the coins, Duchy is worth 60%, Province is worth 75% and Colony about 90%. If you can manage to build such an engine, why shouldn't you be rewarded?

I admit the card ignores and therefore weakens buy cards, though.

4219

Variants and Fan Cards / A Guilds/Prosperity card

« on: June 14, 2013, 11:43:07 am »

Nothing big, just an idea:

Town Hall
5$+, Action - Victory
+ 1 Card
+ 1 Action
1 VP
When you buy this, you may overpay for it. If you do, + 1 VP per $ you overpaid.

4220

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: An extra Guild

« on: June 14, 2013, 10:46:55 am »

Would this allow one's token to increase exponentially if one play at least two copies of these every turn?

1. Throne Room Pennypincher
2. Use all your Coin tokens.
3. Buy nothing
4. Repeat.

I don't think you can't word it, but it's probably a lot of work. Also it harms other coin token cards.
Another card to get a similar effect:

Inventory
2$, Action
+1 Card
+ 1 Action
When you buy this, you may overpay for it. Take a coin token per $ you overpaid.

4221

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: An "on-reveal"-card that is not in the supply

« on: June 14, 2013, 10:40:54 am »

I like the idea of "on reveal", but it seems more conducive to a positive effect. Something simple like "when this card is revealed, you may gain a Silver", or "you may trash a card from your hand". Drawing cards gets really confusing, as do things that move the card when you reveal it.

A positive effect will make the card another Tunnel. All cards that "reveal until X" (which are the "strongest" revealers) will have the same interaction with the card as with Tunnel. Honestly i don't like that, because it's allready there. A negative "on-reveal" changes the value of some cards, and that's more like it. Spy, Thief, Bureaucrat and Pirate Ship will be capable of stealing your VPs, while strong cards like Hunting Party and Golem suddenly are liabilities. A positive effect changes nothing. That's why i'm in for a negative effect to nerf a strong card.

Also names:


Archive
4$, Action
+ 1 Action
Draw cards until you have 6 cards in hand. Gain a Cryptograph. Each other player may reveal his hand. If he does, he discards his hand and draws as many cards as he discarded.

Cryptograph
0*, Treasure - Victory
2$
1 VP
When you reveal this, put it back on the Cryptograph pile.
(This is not in the supply)

4222

Dominion: Guilds Previews / Re: Obvious Predictions: Guilds Edition

« on: June 13, 2013, 03:18:03 pm »

MG will be a bad card most of the time and go unbought.

I'm curious whether that will actually be the case. Maybe it's more than meets the eye.

Also i assume you can spend coin tokens on the same buy phase you get them and may(?) use a token to overpay for the card you got it for.

4223

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Missing Guilds

« on: June 13, 2013, 01:57:54 pm »

CHEESEMAKER

So you are proposing an empty card with only the word CHEESEMAKER written in capital letters on it?

Card names are written in capital letters...

So the card shows nothing but the card name?
Seems like some kind of ruins.

Cheese Destoyer
Action - Attack, 5$
Take two Coin Tokens. Each other player gains a Cheesemaker.

4224

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Missing Guilds

« on: June 13, 2013, 12:41:05 pm »

CHEESEMAKER

So you are proposing an empty card with only the word CHEESEMAKER written in capital letters on it?

4225

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Mongol Horde

« on: June 13, 2013, 12:37:05 pm »

On topic: If you make players gain a card, you should restrict it somehow.

Technically, there is a restriction. It only allows you to gain Kingdom cards, so you can't gain Provinces, Colonies, etc. The card's still way too powerful, but it's by definition not a one-card strategy.

Oops, i didn't read carefully.

Minion can be a one-card-strategy, and it is fine for me, while Rebuild isn't strictly a one-card-strategy and i hate it (for what was allredy said). What makes this card terrible is that, no matter what else is on the board, you can't skip it. Whatever strategy you go for, it has to include Mongol Horde (edge cases like kingdoms with only 2$-4$s aside).