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Variants and Fan Cards / Re: What cards should I print from Dominion: Outtakes?
« on: August 04, 2013, 09:03:46 pm »
As I recall, the objection to Dungeon was that it was too similar to Masquerade, and he liked Masquerade better.
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77
Dominion General Discussion / Re: What cards have a funny/weird thematic interactions?
« on: August 01, 2013, 07:49:53 pm »
Opponents' Swindlers can explain some of these (e.g. Masterpiece). And he was planning to build a Goons engine (he has Goons, King's Court, Scheme, Band of Misfits, and a couple villages, one of which provides +Buy), but using the Fool's Gold as a money source to kick-start it. He got the Black Market for kicks, and pulled out some good cards (e.g. the Witch and the only Tournament) by chance. Not sure how he got the Rogue, but once he does, he might as well use it to pick up things like Spy, which can never hurt his deck.
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Dominion General Discussion / Re: What cards have a funny/weird thematic interactions?
« on: August 01, 2013, 05:18:20 pm »
Herald: My lord, the Adventurer we dispatched has returned.
Adventurer: Great King, I have traveled through distance Provinces, across the Silk Road. I stowed away on a Merchant Ship, then found some Smugglers at a Black Market to help me dodge an Embargo. I outwitted cunning Rogues, villainous Swindlers and a subtle Spy. I outfought Marauders, and avoided the Curses of a malevolent Witch. I and a ragtag Band of Misfits infiltrated a King's Court to thwart the vile Schemes of an evil Chancellor and his Conspirators. I hid in a Death Cart, to hide from their hired Goons, and faked my death with the help of a friendly Graverobber. I then defeated Knights and Squires alike at the royal Tournament, in order to present the Princess with evidence of his treason. I then fled the country, pursued by that treacherous Advisor's Minions, and accompanied only by my Trusty Steed. There, amid Ruined Villages and Abandoned Mines, I found the untouched remains of a Native Village, from which I acquired these two veritable Masterpieces.
King: ...Masterpieces? What part of "bring me some Fool's Gold" did you not understand?
Adventurer: Great King, I have traveled through distance Provinces, across the Silk Road. I stowed away on a Merchant Ship, then found some Smugglers at a Black Market to help me dodge an Embargo. I outwitted cunning Rogues, villainous Swindlers and a subtle Spy. I outfought Marauders, and avoided the Curses of a malevolent Witch. I and a ragtag Band of Misfits infiltrated a King's Court to thwart the vile Schemes of an evil Chancellor and his Conspirators. I hid in a Death Cart, to hide from their hired Goons, and faked my death with the help of a friendly Graverobber. I then defeated Knights and Squires alike at the royal Tournament, in order to present the Princess with evidence of his treason. I then fled the country, pursued by that treacherous Advisor's Minions, and accompanied only by my Trusty Steed. There, amid Ruined Villages and Abandoned Mines, I found the untouched remains of a Native Village, from which I acquired these two veritable Masterpieces.
King: ...Masterpieces? What part of "bring me some Fool's Gold" did you not understand?
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Dominion General Discussion / Re: The thread where the current topic always gets derailed
« on: August 01, 2013, 01:59:36 pm »I think I missed something about this thread.... is it the Harry Potter / Doctor Who / Power Rangers crossover thread?Has anyone in the Variants and Fan Cards forum made a Doctor Who fan card, sort of like Knights?
We currently have 11 doctors, so that would be 10 kingdom cards + 1 randomizer. Since Matt Smith is leaving at the end of this year, now would be the time to do it.
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Dominion General Discussion / Re: The thread where the current topic always gets derailed
« on: August 01, 2013, 12:42:32 pm »
So all this talking about vanilla and prefixes got me thinking:
What if we referred to the regular ("vanilla") village as a "vanillage"?
What if we referred to the regular ("vanilla") village as a "vanillage"?
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Dominion General Discussion / Re: The Vanillage.
« on: July 31, 2013, 12:50:09 pm »Does "in-" in "increase" count as a prefix? I can't think of any other words right now where "in-" is positive. Often "in-" is negative, meaning "not": insensitive, insecure. Slightly different, "in-" sometimes means something like "beyond": invaluable, incredible.Inflammable.
Insert obligatory Simpsons quote here.
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Dominion General Discussion / Re: What is your favorite vanilla card?
« on: July 30, 2013, 05:07:47 pm »You guys are missing the best part: it's free! You can easily pick one up on a spare buy. For that matter, it's one of the few cards you can easily acquire without either using a buy or spending an action. And like all ruins, losing the split can be devastating to your chances.ruined village is not on the list. its so versatile and usefull in almost every case... i love it
It takes away Village's risk of making cards miss the reshuffle. So it's like Village without the penalty.
And you can draw it with Vagrant. Ruined Village is sounding OP.
I assume the pricing considerations are much like chapel; if you make it cost what it "deserves," then you run the risk of one person getting an unlucky opening split and falling behind.
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Dominion General Discussion / Re: What cards have a funny/weird thematic interactions?
« on: July 26, 2013, 11:26:58 pm »
They only hit the leaders; Followers are safe.
And of course, no true knight would dare harm a Princess.
And of course, no true knight would dare harm a Princess.
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Dominion General Discussion / Re: What cards have a funny/weird thematic interactions?
« on: July 24, 2013, 06:56:10 pm »Historical accuracy, down to the gritty details, in Dominion? You don't think that's weird? :-pI'm not sure what you're trying to say.
Now if you'll excuse me, I have to have see my Ironworks about making me some Silver.
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Dominion General Discussion / Re: WW's Power Rankings
« on: July 24, 2013, 12:54:54 pm »Little known fact: Bertrand Russell was actually a dinosaur.
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Dominion General Discussion / Re: What cards have a funny/weird thematic interactions?
« on: July 22, 2013, 02:15:58 pm »
The important thing about mystic is that even if she guesses wrong, she still provides money.
Clearly, all calls to the Mystic Hotline are non-refundable.
Clearly, all calls to the Mystic Hotline are non-refundable.
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Dominion General Discussion / Re: Divide by Cardtypes
« on: July 22, 2013, 12:56:48 am »Apprentice is an even better example, because it's also non-terminal draw, and that's a big aspect of the card.
Example: Apprentice
It fits into (at least) two categories: Trash for Benefit and just Trashers.
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Dominion General Discussion / Re: Divide by Cardtypes
« on: July 20, 2013, 05:48:24 pm »
Just to confirm "Deck-Hurter" is essentially non-junking attacks? So Scrying Pool, Militia, Knights, etc.
Before "Money-Carer", you might want +Buy? It's an important category in its own right.
Before "Money-Carer", you might want +Buy? It's an important category in its own right.
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Dominion General Discussion / Re: WW's Power Rankings
« on: July 19, 2013, 08:50:33 pm »It's not hard these days to get the action chain and +buys needed to spam Peddlers.There's an interesting question: how have relative strengths of cards evolved over time?
I don't mean Set X has stronger cards than Set Y, I mean how has Card X gotten stronger/weaker with the addition of Set Y?
Put another way, if this list were to pretend Guilds/Dark Ages didn't exist, then how would the relative order of the earlier cards have changed?
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Dominion General Discussion / Re: WW's Power Rankings
« on: July 15, 2013, 08:23:37 pm »There goes my hypothesis of a 114-way tie.Hoping there's more to this thread...There is. Had a family wedding over the weekend. Ate most of my last week. Should post next part tonight or tomorrow.
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Dominion General Discussion / Re: A Kingdom for Beginners
« on: July 15, 2013, 04:30:59 pm »I'd avoid Mint for the first game, if only for the one guy who lucks into a 5-2 opening, and then opens Mint. While Squire makes this not entirely unrecoverable, it can still be a difficult mistake to climb back from.
And having Mint on the board allows you to demonstrate the power of trashing a bunch of coppers to reduce handsize.
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Dominion General Discussion / Re: Pet tricks you haven't tried yet
« on: July 14, 2013, 09:22:05 pm »Scavenger-Scavenger topdecking 2 Treasure MapsWouldn't that be even harder to line up than 2 Treasure Maps to start with? I guess you could use Scheme...
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Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Really bad card ideas
« on: July 13, 2013, 10:17:20 pm »
Treasure Chest $7
Action/Victory/Duration
Now and at the start of your next turn, choose 1:
Take 2 coin tokens; Trash 2 cards from your hand; +2 cards
Worth 1 VP for every 2 differently named cards in the trash
-------------
When you gain this you may gain a Potion
Action/Victory/Duration
Now and at the start of your next turn, choose 1:
Take 2 coin tokens; Trash 2 cards from your hand; +2 cards
Worth 1 VP for every 2 differently named cards in the trash
-------------
When you gain this you may gain a Potion
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Dominion General Discussion / Re: A Kingdom for Beginners
« on: July 13, 2013, 09:02:57 pm »
So I've criticized various people's sets, I might as well add my 2 cents (with the caveat that I have limited experience w/ Dark Ages; indeed the 3 sets you have are the 3 big sets I don't own IRL).
I mostly agree with matste criteria, with the following exceptions:
a) I think it's important to at least introduce attacks, if only to avoid the "multiplayer solitaire" criticism.
b) Big Money should be a non-terrible strategy (although with something like Catacombs, which s/he has) while the winning strategy should ideally be a village-smithy engine (since that's the simplest conceptually, but seems really cool when you first see it, as well as indicating that money can be important).
So, my approach:
Beggar: a Reaction, and defends directly against Rogue. The fact that it gives 3 copper, costs 2 and has additional functionality will suggest that copper is not a great thing to gain, but at the same time it is a boost of $ when they inevitably clutter their decks with junk
Warehouse, Forager: a solid trasher and a sifter, to introduce the 2 key ways of dealing with junk. Will also help them recover if they overplay Beggar
Armory, Worker's Village, Salvager: a gainer, a village and another trasher. This set will be loaded with +buys
Bazaar, Catacombs, Rogue: Village which shows off the relative importance of +coin and +buy, a terminal draw card, and a non-insane attack (the must gain clause prevents it from trashing everybody's deck)
Altar: Reinforces the idea that trashing can be good, and gives a way to get those additional engine pieces. Plus, if they overbuy this, they at least have a way to get rid of it
I mostly agree with matste criteria, with the following exceptions:
a) I think it's important to at least introduce attacks, if only to avoid the "multiplayer solitaire" criticism.
b) Big Money should be a non-terrible strategy (although with something like Catacombs, which s/he has) while the winning strategy should ideally be a village-smithy engine (since that's the simplest conceptually, but seems really cool when you first see it, as well as indicating that money can be important).
So, my approach:
Beggar: a Reaction, and defends directly against Rogue. The fact that it gives 3 copper, costs 2 and has additional functionality will suggest that copper is not a great thing to gain, but at the same time it is a boost of $ when they inevitably clutter their decks with junk
Warehouse, Forager: a solid trasher and a sifter, to introduce the 2 key ways of dealing with junk. Will also help them recover if they overplay Beggar
Armory, Worker's Village, Salvager: a gainer, a village and another trasher. This set will be loaded with +buys
Bazaar, Catacombs, Rogue: Village which shows off the relative importance of +coin and +buy, a terminal draw card, and a non-insane attack (the must gain clause prevents it from trashing everybody's deck)
Altar: Reinforces the idea that trashing can be good, and gives a way to get those additional engine pieces. Plus, if they overbuy this, they at least have a way to get rid of it
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Dominion General Discussion / Re: A Kingdom for Beginners
« on: July 13, 2013, 04:27:57 pm »This is the one i commonly use:OP doesn't have Base, which is the origin of the conundrum. Otherwise you could just use the "First Game" kingdom, which is intentionally designed to show off everything, and does an excellent job of it.
Cellar
Village
Moneylender
Lab
Monument
Cutpurse
Adventurer
Workshop
Mine
Market
It has some of the same cards as the suggested first game set but with several differences:
Cutpurse is a less frustrating attack card than Militia.
Emphasizes trashing coppers, which is much more intuitive with Moneylender/Mine. Then players can see the value of Adventurer
Monument allows for a token strategy.
Edit: I second your recommendation of Warehouse, as a good intro to sifting, but I'd hold off VP tokens like Monument, until they've played at least one game and seen how Green Cards clog up your deck.
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Dominion General Discussion / Re: A Kingdom for Beginners
« on: July 13, 2013, 11:37:42 am »My suggestion for a diverse set of cards that people I play with, usually new players, find fun (not an easy selection to make...):Not sure I'd put Band of Misfits in here; the choices may seem simple, but they will still slow things down significantly for new players, especially since they'll want to look over all the cards each time the would play it.
Pearl Diver - good to have a simple 2 on board
Sage, Smugglers - an intuitive sifter and an interactive gainer
Monument, Worker's Village - easy source of +buy, although Monument is perhaps questionable
Band of Misfits, Bandit Camp, Mystic, Rabble - cloning cards is fun and simple with these options, Spoils are cute, guessing is fun and Rabble, well, it's +cards and a weak enough attack not to have to introduce Lighthouse etc.
Altar - provides an obvious benefit to trashing
Other cards that almost made it:
Warehouse
Armory, Salvager
Hunting Grounds
Pearl Diver is also somewhat meh...I'd maybe put in Vagrant in it's place, with a comment along the lines of "don't worry about what ruins, curses and shelters are, we'll get to them next game" at the start. It's probably slightly worse in these circumstances, but doesn't require a choice from the players (and Pearl Diver's choice is one of the least interesting in the game).
In general, avoid cards that involve decisions while playing them; new players are already making decisions when they buy things, and when they inevitably have clashing terminals and have to figure out which to play. No need to overwhelm them with more complexity. Incidentally, that's my main concern about Embargo, which is itself a tricky card.
I'd also avoid cards that do anomalous things. Monument stands out on your list for the VP tokens; you want them to associate VP with clogging your deck up, not with those little tokens. They can learn the exceptions later; for now stick to the basics of the game.
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Dominion General Discussion / Re: A Kingdom for Beginners
« on: July 12, 2013, 11:59:31 pm »
How about this kingdom? Worker's Village, Catacombs, Cutpurse, Lighthouse, Armory, Altar, Storeroom, Navigator, Bazaar, Smugglers. No platinum/colony or shelters.
In addition to the concerns about Cutpurse, I'd recommend avoiding durations for the first game. Maybe switch in Market Square for Lighthouse, and either Urchin or Rogue for Cutpurse?
Market Square lets you get another source of +buy and lets you introduce the concept of Reactions.
Urchin is less than ideal for a couple reasons (the whole upgrading aspect chief among them) but it doesn't stack badly, they are unlikely (with this set up) to connect for a while, and the attack occasionally stings enough to be worth mentioning, at least.
Alternatively you could go with Rogue, which is weak enough and slow enough to not be overwhelming, and lets you connect the idea of Reactions to Attacks.
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Dominion: Guilds Previews / Re: What else *should* Guilds have included?
« on: July 12, 2013, 06:38:54 pm »And an Ironic Tiller. And they'd all be bald, although the Tiller would only be ironically bald.So you're saying, we needed a Wig-maker
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Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Fixing Dominion
« on: July 12, 2013, 04:00:31 pm »
Note that Margrave's attack is one of (the only?) attacks in the game that anti-stacks. That lets it get away with having a strong non-attack bit, b/c you are less happy to play a bunch of them in a row. I may draw up my entire deck, but I can pretty much guarantee that you will start your turn with everything you need for your engine to kick off as well.
Compare torturer, which would be vastly weaker without the +3 cards making it easy to set off a torturer chain.
Compare torturer, which would be vastly weaker without the +3 cards making it easy to set off a torturer chain.
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Dominion General Discussion / Re: Ranking the Expansions
« on: July 12, 2013, 03:54:18 pm »Or is it something else? Because I don't really see how either of those cards obviates Tournament, especially if they cost more than it.I think the idea is just that having 2 peddler variants (and Tournament, in addition to everything else, is effectively a peddler early in the game) in a small set would seem redundant; people would complain.