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Messages - pacovf

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4451
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Anyone else hate engines?
« on: April 05, 2014, 11:20:43 am »
Solution: build your own engine and have more fun in your own turn!!!!!:)

Preach it! (excitement mine)

I only have fun when I am trying to build an engine. The crazier it is, the more fun I get. Doesn't anyone hate when the other guy/gal goes BM and gets 5 provinces before your develop-poor house-city-king's court megaturn?

4452
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: "In games using this" effects
« on: April 04, 2014, 11:11:24 pm »
Trade Route's effect isn't equivalent to an "in games using this" effect, any more than City's is. (Baker is a better example of a "setup:" effect that's equivalent to "in games using this".)

I was responding more to concerns like:

Perhaps more importantly, I think these global effects should ideally involve the Kingdom card that they're on. So I'm not in love with either "When you trash a Province, gain a Duchy" or "Silver costs $1 less." Duchess's ability is especially elegant because if the Duchess pile gets bought out and the rule is no longer visible, it doesn't matter because the rule is moot at that point.

or

Baker works so well because the "in games using this" triggers exactly once at the start of the game. It makes a big impact, but it's not much extra to remember. I think having to remember something on a card a bunch of times throughout the game is probably not going to be ideal.

Trade route does add an "in games using this" effect, you add these tokens and move them around even if no one ever buys a trade route. Of course then those tokens are completely irrelevant, but that's besides the point. My point about trade route (which admittedly was probably lost in all that text) was that you have to remember what those tokens on top of the province (& co.) do when you buy one of those cards, even if trade route itself isn't visible any more because their pile was bought out. So there are precedents for having to track fiddly stuff, even if that stuff is not explicitly stated anywhere visible anymore (compare with the latest example, band of misfits, which rules it the other way).

Ironically, even though Duchess is the only card with the explicit text "In games using this, ...", I believe it is the card which less represents this kind of effect (of all the cards discussed here), since the spirit of the effect is just to describe that you can gain Duchess for free and the wording of such an effect happens to use those terms, unlike, say, peddler, which does pretty much the same thing. It's more of a price-altering effect than a game-changing effect.

Hopefully that was slightly less confusing, and sorry if I come across as excessively pedantic on the subject.

4453
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: "In games using this" effects
« on: April 04, 2014, 09:02:43 pm »
I don't think either the top or the bottom of the card work very well. The top because it is strictly better than gardens, which matters when gardens is also in the kingdom because it makes them obsolete; the bottom because Awaclus has convinced me that it's too strong an effect while only affecting a small subset of all cards.

But setting that aside for a moment, I find your example of "antisynergy" quite elegant actually! You aren't really making the card any weaker with the "in games using this, ..." effect, you are actually making another incompatible strategy stronger so that it can compete with this. Or rather, your "in games using this, ..." effect changes the rules of the game in such a way that certain strategies become stronger, while the top of the card offers a strong alternative to those strategies.

So yeah, I don't think your precise example works, but if I understood it correctly, I quite like the idea behind it.

4454
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: "In games using this" effects
« on: April 04, 2014, 01:38:00 pm »
Quote
If you price it at two and it is the only trasher in the kingdom, then you have nearly a junk-dealer for 2$ instead of 5$, which messes with the balance of the game.
that's the point

I disagree. Changing the rules (and hence the balance and viable strategies) of a given kingdom by virtue of a global effect is not the same as changing the balance of a given kingdom by putting a card so strong for its price that you absolutely have to include it in your strategy.

4455
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: "In games using this" effects
« on: April 04, 2014, 12:11:20 pm »
I don't think it is a good idea to put an "in games using this..." effect on a card that drastically changes the power level of some (but not most) cards, including the card itself, because it makes pricing the card very difficult, as showcased with:

Action - 2$ - ?
+1 Action
+1$
Trash a card from your hand.
--------
In games using this, whenever you trash a card, you may draw a card

If you price it at two and it is the only trasher in the kingdom, then you have nearly a junk-dealer for 2$ instead of 5$, which messes with the balance of the game. Junk dealer probably doesn't break the game at 2$, but that's just an example. On the other hand, if Junk dealer is in the kingdom, then Junk dealer is strictly better than this, so it should cost less. What do you do, then, what price do you give to this card?

If I slapped the effect "In games using this, whenever you reveal a card, you might trash or discard it" on scout, I would be against pricing that card at 4$ (as overpriced as scout already is), even though if sage is also in the kingdom it would severely outclass it.

So what you want is an effect that either:
a) doesn't apply to the card itself
b) only applies to the card itself (and then why not put the effect on the card itself if possible?)
c) applies to all (or at least most) cards equally.

So that the card can be priced fairly.

Note that the only official card using the exact phrasing "In games using this, ..." is duchess, every other card discusse here actually reads "setup: ...". Interesting points to consider are embargo and trade route, since they add rules to the game that are in effect even if no example of those cards are currently visible (gaining curses, moving coin tokens around). So a cost-modifying effect would be alright for example, since by the time the pile runs out, most players should have internalized already that the cards' prices are different than usually. Same with Young Witch and the bane, you are expected to remember what card was the bane even though it's not written anywhere.

4456
General Discussion / Re: roguelike games
« on: April 03, 2014, 06:34:37 pm »
I checked the wiki a while back, and evocations/invocations only get you around 2/3 of the extra MPs spellcasting does, and spellcasting is the only convenient way to get more spell levels, so it doesn't work as well as you would think for an actual spellcaster.

Note that in 1.4, abominations don't regenerate anymore (which I think is too much of a nerf, considering one abomination takes 4-6 corpses and how frail they are), but fleshy bits can join with existing ones to heal them. If only they didn't have a tendency to merge with max HP abominations...

Necromutation takes a heavy skill investment, since you will need close to level 20 average between necro and transmutations to cast it reliably (probably around 17-18 with one wizardry bonus), and you can't cast any other transmutation spell while in lich form. If you really want to forget about the hunger clock and get torment inmunity, you are better off starting with a mummy and be done with it. Of course, I didn't know this back then.

I personally had a lot of trouble against thorn hunters in the swamp. Even just ONE of them all by itself could decimate my abomination army and still look for more.

And your Orc followers are so cuuuuuute  ;D

4457
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: "In games using this" effects
« on: April 03, 2014, 11:06:15 am »
Another issue you pointed out yourself; it applies to this style of card in general. There's no real help for considerations with TfB cards here other than to constantly keep this in mind. This might become annoying.

Go the peddler way: in games using this, during any buy phase, cards cost 1$ less, but no less than 0$.

Also some of these cards work better as reaction cards, rules-wise. It automatically makes them optional, and you don't have to worry about whether there's any left in the supply or not.

4458
General Discussion / Re: Writing a novel! (The Broken Globe)
« on: April 03, 2014, 10:34:47 am »
I'm not a psychologist, but somehow I don't find it very likely that anyone would be overly disturbed by anything they themselves can imagine.

You would be surprised!

Like I said, Game of Thrones. You read, then imagine, then spend ten minutes cringing at what you just pictured.

I don't think my story is quite as bad as Game of Thrones, but someone does get disemboweled at one point.

Dude, spoilers! Not cool man, not cool.

4459
General Discussion / Re: roguelike games
« on: April 03, 2014, 08:10:08 am »
Ugh, that map looks painful. Charging seems like a terrible idea, but I guess it didn't look that way at first (it never does, sadly). It's always tricky against summoners, you never know when you will get surrounded.

No twisted resurrection, though? Fully formed abominations hit like a truck, and if you are playing prior to 1.4, they actually regenerate naturally. They are corpse-expensive, but that's what the Orcish Mines are for.  :D
And somehow you don't look very prepared against Negative Energy immune creatures, unless you didn't mind casting Haunt...?

Although I now find any class depending on allies sub-par. They are less dangerous to play than others, since, if push comes to shove, you can simply run for it while your minions/summons get slaughtered, but I don't know if that's enough to make up for the reduced xp, and the looking-for-suicide attitude of your allies, which forces you to charge in with them, with the consequences we all know and hate.
My particular pet peeve is when there's a doorway, and there's three squares from which you can attack it. The optimal formation is to stand in those squares with two allies, and pummel whichever enemy dares stand on the doorway, that way you only face one enemy at a time, and enemy shooters can't do a thing. Of course, as soon as it dies, one of your allies cries "For ROHAAAAAAAAN!" and stands on the doorway itself, and now is the one getting pummeled by three enemies while blocking your shooting.

4460
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Donald announces new expansion!
« on: April 03, 2014, 07:45:16 am »
Wait wait wait, let me check if I got it right the first time: you are working on an expansion of a game that you aren't close to publishing yet, and you've already decided that the name of the expansion would be Dominion, and you tell this here the other way around? In what universe is that not cruel? THE FEELS!  :'(

The name of the expansion is not "Dominion". At least not based on what he said here. I'm not sure where the confusion lies. He's simply working on an expansion for a game; nothing that has anything to do with Dominion in name or in game.

How do you explain the "Oh Dominion" in "I have actually been working on a new expansion. Oh Dominion. No, not a Dominion expansion."?

4461
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Homage to the Best Card
« on: April 03, 2014, 07:42:59 am »
You just posted three times in a row, and you got no upvotes for it, in the meme thread of all places. Your respect-to-post ratio is gonna take a hit, maybe your self-esteem too. Here, have an upvote.

4462
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Donald announces new expansion!
« on: April 02, 2014, 10:29:25 pm »
Wait wait wait, let me check if I got it right the first time: you are working on an expansion of a game that you aren't close to publishing yet, and you've already decided that the name of the expansion would be Dominion, and you tell this here the other way around? In what universe is that not cruel? THE FEELS!  :'(

4463
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Donald announces new expansion!
« on: April 02, 2014, 05:12:36 pm »
I have actually been working on a new expansion. Oh Dominion. No, not a Dominion expansion.

What is this I don't even

EDIT: this is so going to mess up with BGG. "The hotness : Dominion (2014)".

4464
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Donald announces new expansion!
« on: April 02, 2014, 03:30:50 pm »
Actually I was expecting it would be Ozle the one to do this, from his contributions in the DXV interview thread.

I thought about it, but then rejected it as I thought it would be suspected of me.

I had two other ideas in the end, but went with the really really sneaky subtle one....


Is this one of those recursive pranks where you hint at a really really sneaky subtle one but really the hinting is the really really sneaky subtle one?

I think you are overestimating my intelligence.....

So you are smart enough to do a really really sneaky subtle prank, but not enough to understand that saying that you did a really really sneaky subtle one without actually doing so constitutes a really really sneaky subtle one?

Sorry Ozle, I just don't trust you enough to believe that you did a prank.

4465
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Donald announces new expansion!
« on: April 02, 2014, 03:04:56 pm »
By "a heavy contender for", you mean "one that a lot of us wish would be in", right?

In my mind, those two are equivalent.  ;D

It's a heavy contender because it is the only one I know of, basically, but my point was that I expected people to recognize that particular card.

4466
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Donald announces new expansion!
« on: April 02, 2014, 10:38:49 am »
I thought that it was common knowledge that Dungeon was a heavy contender for a spot in a chest-like expansion. Donald has talked about it before. I put it here to make people think (at first) that I was serious.

Aside from dungeon, I was trying to make cards that Donald would never do. I probably should have spent more time in the terribly bad card ideas to make this funnier, but oh well.
Politics is obviously wrong, so is Witch Doctor.
The Jack, Unobtainium and Fat cow are terribly uninspired, and very probably not priced right, if at all possible.
Tide is very confusing and needs rules clarifications, so does the end is nigh but that one could actually be solved.
I personally think that surgeon is bad because of how swingy and dangerous it is, and even though it looks like it rewards diversity, it actually doesn't, so it doesn't really represent cornucopia. I guess the first issue could be fixed (add the option to discard one of the revealed cards, for example), but then you are getting very close to doctor (guilds)

I encourage any other person to try to make a joke list of cards!

4467
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Donald announces new expansion!
« on: April 02, 2014, 09:05:18 am »
"Secret history of Jack-in-the-box

Dungeon: this card has been around since quite early. It's alright, it lets you trash, it doesn't slow you down, it's pretty vanilla. It didn't make it into the base set, but with this cool new expansion, I can finally add it in. Much rejoicing was had.

Politics: I always get complaints that there isn't enough interaction in Dominion. They are wrong, of course, but Jay is very business-oriented, so he told me "make a card with more interactions, will you?", and I had this outtake lying around from another game I am working on which may or may not be a Dominion spin-off, so I obliged. Since this card was meant to represent Intrigue, it had to have the dual action-victory type (actually now it has triple typing, how cool is that I ask you), so I came up with this, playtested it for two games, and since nobody seemed to be openly against it once I suggested that maybe we should playtest 6-player Dominion some more, here you are. Now you can play diplomacy in 40 minutes instead of 40 hours. No, no, no need to thank me, I do it for the Greater Good.

Tide: people love their duration cards. Don't get me wrong, they are nice, but it's logistically complicated to print new ones, because what do you do to explain how they work in the rulebook. But this expansion doesn't have a rulebook at all, since it is marketed for the hardcorest fans of mine, so yay I guess. This one also gives you choices, which is a premiere, no other duration card does that, unless you count haven, but that's neither here nor there. Sure, one of the two choices has some rule issues, but you'll get over it quickly, especially since it is the worst option anyway, why would you take it in the first place. Also some people forget what they chose the previous turn, don't play with them. As an added bonus, this card also helps new players understand that a strong turn and a bad turn are better than two middle ones, so slap this into a game with your mother to help her learn advanced techniques faster.

Witch doctor: this is in many senses a fixed Possession. Many many senses, I tell you. The price is right. It doesn't feel like an attack, except against yourself. Only one (or two) of your opponents benefit from it. This card is better balanced when there are two extra turns, but then again two extra turns take forever to resolve, so people get bored very quickly, that's why there's the clause about the second turn taking place only if it's the first time you play with it today; nobody wants to go through it twice in quick succession, believe me. There are many other reasons that should be apparent when reading this simple and elegant card. I am not going to tell you how to use this card correctly, I prefer when people find it by themselves.

Unobtainium: Well this one was obvious. Prosperity's theme is spendy, so we might as well go overboard, explore the limits of Dominion, and how expensive can a card be before nobody buys it anymore. To boldly go where no man has gone before they say. You only play with Unobtainium when Colonies are out, of course. You might have noticed that 11$ is exactly the cost of a colony, and that Unobtainium gives you an extra buy, there's a hint right there on how you want to use this card.

Surgeon: Cornucopia cares about diversity. Surgeon cares about diversity. For only two, you might trash two estates and a copper, and still have a four card hand, how strong is that, even better than chapel I tell you. It does share the same problem that lookout, since you might trash your precious provinces, and labs, and pretty much everything else really, but if your deck only consists of unique cards costing 3+, maybe you shouldn't have played surgeon in the first place, unless you want to undo all the hard work you did to get there for some reason.

The Jack in jack-in-the-box: I know that hinterlands theme is cards that do stuff when bought/gained, but there was this joke to be made, so I went with it. This is a stronger version of Jack-of-all-trades, in case you hadn't noticed. Need more economy? Here's a gold, to make up for the fact that you bought The Jack instead of a gold. People messing with the top of your deck? The Jack doesn't even notice as he cleans it (note, you can even leave those victory cards on top, Scout likes that). You had to discard your cards? The Jack laughs and gives you more than you know what to do with them. Got stuff that you don't like in your deck? Not anymore. All in all, The Jack smiles at you and then you win. I noticed during playtesting that some people had trouble reading all that text in the card, that's why I tell people to squint in the card itself, in case they forget.

The end is nigh: looters! Self-replacing attacks! Two concepts that work, just check Dark Ages. This one gives ruins, which is definitely stronger than discarding down to four cards, and it is only worth 3$, and comboes with itself since it is considered a Ruins (the typing is important). Since there is no rulebook with this expansion, you don't know whether you can gain a "The end is nigh" when you have to gain a Ruins or not, so you'll have to debate it with your fellow players. The end is nigh becomes stronger as you receive more ruins, and it even comboes with vagrant, there's some cool theme for you people.

Fat cow: a common question is why there is no action card that gives +3$. Mainly because they are boring and hard to price. This solves both problems, because coin tokens are awesome like that. You can use those tokens now, or later, that's the whole point. A baseline strategy for Fat cow is play it 8 times -> ??? -> Profit! But there are other strategies too, of course. Amass them before your bridge megaturn. Use them with butcher, transform your lowly coppers into provinces, amaze your friends. Play seven fat cows on the same turn but only use the coins on the next (achievement unlocked!). Truly limitless strategies."

4468
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Donald announces new expansion!
« on: April 02, 2014, 07:43:42 am »
Actually I was expecting it would be Ozle the one to do this, from his contributions in the DXV interview thread. So Kudos to GendoIkari, but it would have been better if there were actual prank-cards, prank-name of the expansion, and even prank-description of the box :P

Anyone up to the task?

EDIT: I'll start, because procrastination.

"Jack-in-the-box

So one day you wake up and you are old. Not old, old, of course, since everybody dies before their thirties, what with the plague and the pirates and the tournaments and what-not. And man, you are still gorgeous, I mean check out that duchess, and she's coming your way just to see your duchy if you catch my drift. If you don't, it's fine, don't worry, it was kind of a stretch anyway.
But old inside, because you've already seen everything. Been there, done that, you're not excited about the fancy-schamncy King court's masquerades, there's just so much of your dominion you can rebuild, and it's been a while since the last time they saw you in the chapel.
So in between nefariously challenging other foolish builders for fun, you check your castle again, because why not and you don't need a reason anyway. And hey you find something. A box. Not a chest, why would it be a chest, no, a box, maybe the chest will come some other time. And you think, what's in the box?"

EDIT 2:

Dungeon
3$ Action
Discard a card, trash a card, +3 cards

Politics
3$ Action-Attack-Victory
When you play this, name another player. That player gains a curse and discards a card.
--
At the end of the game, name another player. That player gains one VP for every Politics card in their deck.

Tide
3$ Action-Duration
+1 action
Choose one:
+2 cards or discard two cards
At the beginning of your next turn, do the other one.

Witch doctor
3$P Action
Take an extra turn after this one. The player to your left can see your hand, and chooses what you play in your stead, and gains a copy of every card you gain during that extra turn. If this is the first game you play with Witch doctor today, repeat this process with the player to your right.

Unobtainium
12$ Treasure
+1 buy, +11$

Surgeon
2$ Action
Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal two cards with the same name. Trash the revealed cards.

The Jack in jack-in-the-box
6$ Action
Gain a gold.
Reveal cards from the top of your deck until you reveal an action or treasure card. Discard any of the revealed cards, put the rest on top of your deck in any order.
Draw until you have six cards in your hand.
Trash up to two cards from your hand.
--
When you read this card, squint.

The end is nigh
3$ Action-Attack-Ruins-Looter
+1 action +1 card. Reveal your hand. If you revealed at least one ruin card, all other players gain a Ruins.

Fat cow
5$ Action
Take 3 coin tokens

4469
General Discussion / Re: roguelike games
« on: April 01, 2014, 11:43:59 am »
Hoping for that colour you want seems like you are in dire need of frustation, given how the Random Number God in DCSS only smiles at you every so often. They probably don't let you pick to make draconians a bit weaker/interesting.

I'd guess that starting as a Draconian Transmuter and branching into the relevant conjuration when you learn its colour (Vehumet and Sif Muna increase the odds that you'll eventually get some useful conjurations) is less rage-inducing.

4470
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Interview with Donald X.
« on: April 01, 2014, 11:31:20 am »
Monopoly is a game and only satisfies one of the conditions.

Debatable.

4471
General Discussion / Re: roguelike games
« on: March 31, 2014, 10:05:46 am »
I don't know if anyone has mentioned it yet, but Sword of the Stars : The Pit is a nice roguelike. It's Sci-Fi, got permadeath, crafting, and a nice amount of non-fighting skills. The average fight difficulty is not exceedingly high, even when trying to save ammo, but running away from trouble is quite hard (basically the only panic buttons are grenades, and exploiting the fact that most enemies aren't that bloodthirsty).

And definitely not a roguelike, but Age of Decadence is an amazing game. It's more of a TBS/RPG/text adventure mix (think the first Fallout). But the thing is, when you start, your guy has a 60% chance to beat the average goon on a straight fight, which quickly drops as you have to face more than that, or their equipment improves. You'll need good strategy and inventory management to win your fights, and more often than not, you'll actually want to avoid getting in the fight in the first place; although there's no permadeath, so you can always game the odds if you want to. The different backgrounds/guild quests give you a different perspective on the underlying plot, making the game very replayable. Still in development, but the demo is free if you want to try it, I definitely recommend it.

4472
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Things Dominion Players Say
« on: March 30, 2014, 01:56:18 pm »
"I'll Butcher those Rats into a Feast for another 2 Coins"

Funny, but would it actually be a good choice?

Butchering Rats is actually a good choice. Butchering anything into a Feast is not.

That was my question, actually. Butchering a rat is obviously a good thing, but gaining a feast instead of something actually useful so that you get to keep two coins? Maybe if it's your last turn in a scrying pool deck with plenty of actions but not so much buying power, to get a duchy out of it and butcher the next rats into a province... Wait that could actually work.

4473
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Things Dominion Players Say
« on: March 30, 2014, 09:56:51 am »
"I'll Butcher those Rats into a Feast for another 2 Coins"

Funny, but would it actually be a good choice?

4474
General Discussion / Re: roguelike games
« on: March 29, 2014, 01:22:05 pm »
Ok, I'll just ask. What are your usual times for Lair:7? And for your first rune? Asking this to pretty much everybody, since after spending 20 hours to be halfway between my first and second rune, I don't think I have enough time to play DCSS anymore. But maybe it's just because I am a n00b and play slowly.

4475
General Discussion / Re: roguelike games
« on: March 29, 2014, 07:36:18 am »
Sheesh, already at Vaults 5 in less than 9 hours? How can you be so quick?

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