2451
Puzzles and Challenges / What's missing?
« on: October 04, 2011, 02:34:55 pm »
Province, Fairgrounds, Bank, Duchy, Great Hall, Curse, ___
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2452
GokoDom / Re: IsoDom Tourney Round 2 Match-Ups and Results
« on: October 01, 2011, 02:23:37 pm »
I was thinking I wanted to lose :-).
Actually, what I was thinking was that I could enjoy a megaforge turn before the mountebank could do too much damage; however, caravan is too weak at drawing to facilitate a sufficiently early megaforge turn to counter something as painful to the deck as mountebank, and so this was just foolish.
My gut is that this approach is definitely right if you replace mountebank with sea hag and caravan with laboratory, sometimes right if you replace mountebank with sea hag but leave caravan alone, and definitely wrong in the game I played it (michaeljb's draws aren't very lucky at all). Maybe some simulation data would be helpful - just now, I searched councilroom records for every time I've tried to pull this and it seems to come down against me a lot.
Actually, what I was thinking was that I could enjoy a megaforge turn before the mountebank could do too much damage; however, caravan is too weak at drawing to facilitate a sufficiently early megaforge turn to counter something as painful to the deck as mountebank, and so this was just foolish.
My gut is that this approach is definitely right if you replace mountebank with sea hag and caravan with laboratory, sometimes right if you replace mountebank with sea hag but leave caravan alone, and definitely wrong in the game I played it (michaeljb's draws aren't very lucky at all). Maybe some simulation data would be helpful - just now, I searched councilroom records for every time I've tried to pull this and it seems to come down against me a lot.
2453
Dominion General Discussion / Why does trading post have the "if you do" clause?
« on: September 30, 2011, 03:43:18 pm »
Occasionally, say after a secret chamber, a trading post is the last (or one of the last two) cards in my hand; I play it and don't get a silver (but possibly trash a card). I think this is a little weird, since
1. other cards with "trade" in the title don't have this restriction, so it's not just for thematic reasons, and
2. the situation is pretty rare, and trading post already isn't that great of a 5, so it's hard to imagine that this would be the difference between the card being overpowered or not.
Does anybody know what the rationale here is?
(Note: I am not asking a rules question - I understand that the wording on trading post is different from the wording on trade route and horse traders; I am just curious why the decision was made to word it differently).
1. other cards with "trade" in the title don't have this restriction, so it's not just for thematic reasons, and
2. the situation is pretty rare, and trading post already isn't that great of a 5, so it's hard to imagine that this would be the difference between the card being overpowered or not.
Does anybody know what the rationale here is?
(Note: I am not asking a rules question - I understand that the wording on trading post is different from the wording on trade route and horse traders; I am just curious why the decision was made to word it differently).
2454
Council Room Feedback / Re: New probability of winning graphs for 2p games
« on: September 30, 2011, 03:34:14 pm »
I think there may also be a gardens bug? Here, on the graph, my probability of winning is something like a tenth of my opponent's probability of winning, even at the very end after my gardens become worth provinces (the game at that point is clinched for me):
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20110516-094825-df525d77.html
(I like this feature a lot by the way! I've looked up all the games in memory where I've had a lucky comeback. It's funny how they're easier to remember than the games in which my opponent has had one.)
By the way, one thing that might be helpful is more points on the y-axis.
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20110516-094825-df525d77.html
(I like this feature a lot by the way! I've looked up all the games in memory where I've had a lucky comeback. It's funny how they're easier to remember than the games in which my opponent has had one.)
By the way, one thing that might be helpful is more points on the y-axis.
2455
Council Room Feedback / Re: New probability of winning graphs for 2p games
« on: September 30, 2011, 01:02:13 pm »
Possession seems to confuse this graph a little?
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20110814-103840-7887199d.html
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20110814-103840-7887199d.html
2456
Dominion General Discussion / Re: The Decline of My Dominion Skills
« on: September 29, 2011, 05:32:18 pm »
Quick remarks on masquerade:
1. Masquerade isn't slow. Really. As ackack suggested, try the masquerade/big money strategy on the next board you see with masquerade. I used to hate that card, but I was wrong. The problem was that I tried to make masquerade part of an engine, whereas masquerade is perhaps the best card in the game to play solo with a big money strategy.
2. I like the thought experiment that you should think of masquerade as "+2 cards, you may trash a card." It's more important to forget your misconceptions about masquerade and think of it this way. But once you've done that, let me point out that the quirky interface of masquerade isn't insignificant. On the contrary, one of the main reasons that masquerade beats chapel is the way that masquerade often catches a fast trasher with his pants down. My general rule of thumb in the late game is that if it's likely I'll catch an opponent with his pants down, I play masquerade even if it means passing him something like a silver. The quirky interface also explains why masquerade is better than other trashers against cursing attacks (maybe not mountebank, which junks up your deck too fast, and you never know if you should give him your curse or not.)
1. Masquerade isn't slow. Really. As ackack suggested, try the masquerade/big money strategy on the next board you see with masquerade. I used to hate that card, but I was wrong. The problem was that I tried to make masquerade part of an engine, whereas masquerade is perhaps the best card in the game to play solo with a big money strategy.
2. I like the thought experiment that you should think of masquerade as "+2 cards, you may trash a card." It's more important to forget your misconceptions about masquerade and think of it this way. But once you've done that, let me point out that the quirky interface of masquerade isn't insignificant. On the contrary, one of the main reasons that masquerade beats chapel is the way that masquerade often catches a fast trasher with his pants down. My general rule of thumb in the late game is that if it's likely I'll catch an opponent with his pants down, I play masquerade even if it means passing him something like a silver. The quirky interface also explains why masquerade is better than other trashers against cursing attacks (maybe not mountebank, which junks up your deck too fast, and you never know if you should give him your curse or not.)
2457
Game Reports / Two poor decisions cancel out and make a quasi-combo
« on: September 29, 2011, 04:30:28 pm »
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201109/29/game-20110929-132156-31837895.html
cards in supply: Caravan, Chancellor, Fishing Village, Hamlet, Harvest, Hunting Party, Market, Salvager, Stash, and Worker's Village
I quickly scanned this board, and, insufficiently impressed with the terminals to go fishing village (which is not great in a quick hunting party deck), opened chancellor, caravan. (Weirdly, my opponent also opened chancellor, and we both missed the chancellor stash combo entirely.) My plan to spam hunting parties didn't materialize as quickly as I would have liked, and I chose caravan over silver with 4 on a few occasions. But caravan doesn't go so well with hunting party decks, because of the reshuffle problem*. But the chancellor solves the reshuffle problem! This ends up working out perfectly for me three turns in a row (7, 8, and 9). I'd love to say I thought of this beforehand.
*(after a chain of hunting parties, the last hunting party finds a caravan and then puts a ton of junk in your discard pile, so playing the caravan forces a junk reshuffle that ruins the next turn - this is discussed in much more detail in many places on this forum and on the blog.)
cards in supply: Caravan, Chancellor, Fishing Village, Hamlet, Harvest, Hunting Party, Market, Salvager, Stash, and Worker's Village
I quickly scanned this board, and, insufficiently impressed with the terminals to go fishing village (which is not great in a quick hunting party deck), opened chancellor, caravan. (Weirdly, my opponent also opened chancellor, and we both missed the chancellor stash combo entirely.) My plan to spam hunting parties didn't materialize as quickly as I would have liked, and I chose caravan over silver with 4 on a few occasions. But caravan doesn't go so well with hunting party decks, because of the reshuffle problem*. But the chancellor solves the reshuffle problem! This ends up working out perfectly for me three turns in a row (7, 8, and 9). I'd love to say I thought of this beforehand.
*(after a chain of hunting parties, the last hunting party finds a caravan and then puts a ton of junk in your discard pile, so playing the caravan forces a junk reshuffle that ruins the next turn - this is discussed in much more detail in many places on this forum and on the blog.)
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Puzzles and Challenges / Re: my understanding is that something is missing?
« on: September 29, 2011, 12:24:59 am »
guided - interestingly, your reasoning is completely different from mine! (except of course my explanation revolves around the fact that they're all attack cards). it's interesting that this set of cards has these two properties in common - the one exception is that i think your property runs into trouble with jester.
the reasoning i had in mind was (complete spoiler to the whole puzzle now as i'm going to bed) that these are the attack cards against which it's completely unhelpful to have a watchtower in your deck.
the reasoning i had in mind was (complete spoiler to the whole puzzle now as i'm going to bed) that these are the attack cards against which it's completely unhelpful to have a watchtower in your deck.
2459
Puzzles and Challenges / Re: my understanding is that something is missing?
« on: September 28, 2011, 11:57:56 pm »
Cayvie got it! Meanwhile I've made exactly zero progress on Cayvie's puzzle.
Tydude: For the solution that I have in mind, I think that saboteur is a "sometimes yes/sometimes no" while everything on the list (as well as Cayvie's answer) is an "essentially always no." But saboteur did give me some pause while I was making the list.
Tydude: For the solution that I have in mind, I think that saboteur is a "sometimes yes/sometimes no" while everything on the list (as well as Cayvie's answer) is an "essentially always no." But saboteur did give me some pause while I was making the list.
2460
Puzzles and Challenges / my understanding is that something is missing?
« on: September 28, 2011, 11:06:32 pm »
spy
thief
scrying pool
pirate ship
fortune teller
hints:
1. the criterion the list is based on depends on the function of the cards and not artwork.
2. the criterion is logical, but a little subjective.
3. the criterion could be reworded slightly to include minion on the list; with the wording i have in mind, minion is unambiguously excluded.
thief
scrying pool
pirate ship
fortune teller
hints:
1. the criterion the list is based on depends on the function of the cards and not artwork.
2. the criterion is logical, but a little subjective.
3. the criterion could be reworded slightly to include minion on the list; with the wording i have in mind, minion is unambiguously excluded.
2461
Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Blooki's Puzzle #5 - A "What's Missing?" Puzzle
« on: September 27, 2011, 11:21:55 pm »
Much difficulty!
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Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Think outside the box: what's missing?
« on: September 27, 2011, 11:14:39 am »
I needed all the hints but it's really good.
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Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Yet another "what's missing"
« on: September 26, 2011, 10:45:05 am »
If it has to do with light effects in the artwork then my guess is Harvest.
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Puzzles and Challenges / Re: What's missing again?
« on: September 23, 2011, 03:06:16 pm »
I'm going to modify the above guess a little bit and say ambassador and masquerade as all of these cards are conceivably reasons you would take a curse when an opponent plays a torturer, but this can't be the whole story.
2465
Game Reports / Re: I notice I am confused
« on: September 22, 2011, 11:22:36 pm »
I would worry about duchy/duke being vulnerable to swindling? But I suppose on a board where frickin' PROVINCE is vulnerable to swindling, you just have to bite the bullet.
2466
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Can there be a second-player Advantage?
« on: September 22, 2011, 09:51:14 pm »
I was very happy not too long ago to go second in a set with familiar, remake, and fishing village/wharf/talisman/treasuremap, which had a similar rock-paper-scissors like feel in terms of the opening 4 buy.
Similar feelings in young witch games with bad or mediocre bane cards.
Similar feelings in young witch games with bad or mediocre bane cards.
2467
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Was my strategy bad? Was my opponent's good?
« on: September 21, 2011, 12:59:50 pm »
Looks like I'm in the minority here, but I'm quite tempted by an ironworks fishing village opening, going for fishing villages and envoys and only getting a couple of festivals all game (for extra buys during megaturns). Really, even ignoring the price difference, fishing village is just a much better card for you than festival in this game. Yes, the extra buy will be essential once your engine peaks, but to make festival-envoy work, you have to draw them together, and this is improbable even in a somewhat dense deck - you're much better off relying on festival only for the $ and buy late in the game.
Smugglers is OK on this board, but really not great. I think your opponent gets pretty lucky with his smuggling, but one thing to bear in mind is that on this board there are two great cheap cards - envoy and fishing village - and you forewent them in favor of better, more expensive cards (festival and gold). Your opponent didn't have to pay the opportunity cost of buying these expensive cards (because he could smuggle them) and still had leftover $ to buy the important cheap cards in this game. By contrast, if you'd bought the cheap (but good) cards on the board, he'd be gaining no more with smugglers than with ironworks, and using an action he can ill-afford to use. Ironworks consistently gains two of the most important cards on the board (without a loss of an action); smugglers inconsistently gains -- something.
Smugglers is OK on this board, but really not great. I think your opponent gets pretty lucky with his smuggling, but one thing to bear in mind is that on this board there are two great cheap cards - envoy and fishing village - and you forewent them in favor of better, more expensive cards (festival and gold). Your opponent didn't have to pay the opportunity cost of buying these expensive cards (because he could smuggle them) and still had leftover $ to buy the important cheap cards in this game. By contrast, if you'd bought the cheap (but good) cards on the board, he'd be gaining no more with smugglers than with ironworks, and using an action he can ill-afford to use. Ironworks consistently gains two of the most important cards on the board (without a loss of an action); smugglers inconsistently gains -- something.
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Dominion General Discussion / Re: Tournament (card) help
« on: September 20, 2011, 06:40:47 pm »Quotecards of the form +draw without +action, a peddler, market, or treasury never hurts a deck. Those cards are just as good in a deck with 10 curses as they are in a deck with ten platinums.Check the maths on that. I'm not sure that is true.
Hmm... I'm not sure which of 2 objections you're making. All I was attempting to do with this claim was rebut the argument that a tournament should slow an opponent's engine down, I may have oversold it.
1. You might be arguing that there's something besides a +cards but no +actions in my deck that would make me want to refuse peddler/market/treasury. I'm sure I can concoct some other scenario (here's one: say I really want a golem always to hit the same two terminals). The point is that, in most games, the best reason not to spend 5 on a treasury, for instance, is that there's something better that you can spend it on. It's very rare that you would, say, hit a treasury with a Jester, and decline it (compare this to silver).
2. You might be objecting to my phrase "just as good." I didn't phrase this correctly - maybe you are reading this as saying: the expected increase in the probability of a win by gaining a peddler is the same in a deck full of curses as in a deck full of platinum. I don't mean that - I have no idea how I would compute that, and I agree that it's probably false. I just was responding to OP's thought that an unblocked tournament would slow the opponent down.
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Dominion General Discussion / Re: Tournament (card) help
« on: September 20, 2011, 01:53:09 pm »
Rephrasing what everyone else said on game two: absent cards of the form +draw without +action, a peddler, market, or treasury never hurts a deck. Those cards are just as good in a deck with 10 curses as they are in a deck with ten platinums. The only reason not to buy these cards is the opportunity cost.
So it's not reasonable to expect tournaments to "slow your opponent down" if you are allowing the tournaments to be peddlers. Put differently, in this game, prefer province over platinum not just for the offensive value (winning tournaments, winning the game) but also for the defensive value.
Concretely, during his amazing and game-winning turn 13, you have a platinum in your hand. If instead you had had a province, that turn, while it would have put a trusty steed on his deck (not bad) would have left him with an awkward five money buy and he wouldn't be able to play his remake.
(edit: that last thing i said is not true because he has these havens, so it's not clear from the log how much $ he has this turn or if he has any remake-able cards. But still, the reason he is able to draw the trusty steed and enjoy a power turn is that your platinum is not a province.)
So it's not reasonable to expect tournaments to "slow your opponent down" if you are allowing the tournaments to be peddlers. Put differently, in this game, prefer province over platinum not just for the offensive value (winning tournaments, winning the game) but also for the defensive value.
Concretely, during his amazing and game-winning turn 13, you have a platinum in your hand. If instead you had had a province, that turn, while it would have put a trusty steed on his deck (not bad) would have left him with an awkward five money buy and he wouldn't be able to play his remake.
(edit: that last thing i said is not true because he has these havens, so it's not clear from the log how much $ he has this turn or if he has any remake-able cards. But still, the reason he is able to draw the trusty steed and enjoy a power turn is that your platinum is not a province.)
2471
Dominion Articles / Re: Ranking the opening terminals (for 4/3 splits)
« on: September 17, 2011, 11:28:32 am »
Masquerade is not overrated. Here's a fun, if sobering, experiment: next time you have a board with masquerade, plan out a really cool strategy. Then don't execute that strategy at all. Instead, play big money masquerade, completely algorithmically:
open masquerade silver (or masquerade nothing with 5/2 - don't buy any 2's.) Buy money with <= 6, buy silver or gold whenever you can afford them, till there's only 5 provinces left, then start preferring duchy to silver. (you can buy royal seal, bank, hoard, or venture, but no talisman, quarry, or horn of plenty; definitely no actions, even if ... well, even if anything). Do not try to tweak big money masquerade. Instead, let big money masquerade tweak you.
I don't know why it works, just that it works. (of course, beware possession)
open masquerade silver (or masquerade nothing with 5/2 - don't buy any 2's.) Buy money with <= 6, buy silver or gold whenever you can afford them, till there's only 5 provinces left, then start preferring duchy to silver. (you can buy royal seal, bank, hoard, or venture, but no talisman, quarry, or horn of plenty; definitely no actions, even if ... well, even if anything). Do not try to tweak big money masquerade. Instead, let big money masquerade tweak you.
I don't know why it works, just that it works. (of course, beware possession)
2472
Dominion Articles / Re: Playing Against Possession
« on: September 14, 2011, 09:54:26 pm »
Envoy and Contraband are horrible against possession. I especially enjoy when possessing contraband to pick the most absurd thing for myself not to buy; curse and copper are much too pedestrian.
One defense to possession I've tried with some success (no colonies) is an explorer (!) strategy which is essentially big-money + 1 or 2 explorers + duchy rushing earlier than usual. the point is that when i draw an explorer, i'm never unhappy that i bought it instead of a silver, but the possessor is, as playing the explorer puts a silver in his discard pile and doesn't increase the quality of the possessing hand.
One defense to possession I've tried with some success (no colonies) is an explorer (!) strategy which is essentially big-money + 1 or 2 explorers + duchy rushing earlier than usual. the point is that when i draw an explorer, i'm never unhappy that i bought it instead of a silver, but the possessor is, as playing the explorer puts a silver in his discard pile and doesn't increase the quality of the possessing hand.
2473
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Cards You (Don't) Buy When They're Embargoed
« on: September 09, 2011, 06:33:28 pm »
I don't think familiar is as clear as it's been made out to be. Yeah, embargo wouldn't give me much pause before I bought my first familiar (especially if I've already committed to a potion - which, by the way, is much like a curse already in the endgame), but it would definitely give me pause before buying my second.
By this logic, if there's OK trashing (say, apprentice, but maybe even lookout, let alone steward or chapel) or an alternative cursing mechanism, then embargoing familiar seems like the right move - the reason to fear the familiar is that it's spammable; an opponent with one familiar in the deck is not much scarier than an opponent with one witch in the deck.
I love to embargo the alchemist after my opponent has opened potion.
By this logic, if there's OK trashing (say, apprentice, but maybe even lookout, let alone steward or chapel) or an alternative cursing mechanism, then embargoing familiar seems like the right move - the reason to fear the familiar is that it's spammable; an opponent with one familiar in the deck is not much scarier than an opponent with one witch in the deck.
I love to embargo the alchemist after my opponent has opened potion.
2474
Dominion General Discussion / Re: How do I play King's Court?
« on: September 08, 2011, 11:27:31 pm »
Yeah, I'm backing down on my torturer claim, or at least modifying it to "strong attacks." Stand by bridge.
2475
Dominion General Discussion / Re: How do I play King's Court?
« on: September 08, 2011, 08:49:11 pm »
The above is really good. A couple weird cards to keep in mind.
Torturer: if there's king's court, and no source of extra actions, try to be the first player to King's Court a torturer; once I am that player, I will probably win the game, so I'm willing to be two or three provinces behind in order to do this.
Bridge: if you king's court three bridges, you automatically win a province game, provided that there are at least two provinces left. (You need 2 provinces and 8 duchies, 3 provinces and 4 duchies, 4 provinces and 1 duchy, or obviously, more than 4 provinces). In a colony game, you need to king's court 4 bridges, and there only needs to be 1 colony left for you to tie the game (somebody check my math - and yes, I know, in practice, the opponent will have bought some duchies/provinces in these situations.) The point is that this move is ridiculously good, and if you see these two cards, you should estimate the probability that you can make this move go off before your opponent buys seven provinces (or all the colonies); if there's any trasher at all, even trade route, I'd do it.
The KC/Masquerade/(goons or militia) pin has been described many times, but look it up if you haven't heard of it.
Torturer: if there's king's court, and no source of extra actions, try to be the first player to King's Court a torturer; once I am that player, I will probably win the game, so I'm willing to be two or three provinces behind in order to do this.
Bridge: if you king's court three bridges, you automatically win a province game, provided that there are at least two provinces left. (You need 2 provinces and 8 duchies, 3 provinces and 4 duchies, 4 provinces and 1 duchy, or obviously, more than 4 provinces). In a colony game, you need to king's court 4 bridges, and there only needs to be 1 colony left for you to tie the game (somebody check my math - and yes, I know, in practice, the opponent will have bought some duchies/provinces in these situations.) The point is that this move is ridiculously good, and if you see these two cards, you should estimate the probability that you can make this move go off before your opponent buys seven provinces (or all the colonies); if there's any trasher at all, even trade route, I'd do it.
The KC/Masquerade/(goons or militia) pin has been described many times, but look it up if you haven't heard of it.