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76
Dominion General Discussion / Feodum
« on: May 17, 2016, 06:01:57 am »
Just a remark that the adventures cards double the size of the set of "insane silver gainers;" the elite club is now: Trader, Treasure Hunter, Masterpiece, Raid. As a consequence, Feodum almost doubles in how important it is. Which brings me to, when is Feodum good without these cards, and which of these cards is the best helper?

Guess: depends on the kingdom, but in general:

Masterpiece > Raid ~ Trader > Treasure Hunter

Trader is going to be better than Raid if there are cantrip buys or things like Peddler; Raid will be better on boards where its attack is important (almost a tautology-- which boards are those?). Masterpiece is clearly a cut above the others (hence the name); Treasure Hunter is certainly the fastest silver-gainer in a mirror, but in a non-mirror the opponent can trivially stop it it by not gaining too many cards; haven't played this out yet enough to see how it works.

77
Rules Questions / Inheritance and Crossroads
« on: May 16, 2016, 05:41:32 pm »
The first time in a turn that you play an inherited Estate as Crossroads on MF, you don't get +3 actions. This seems correct to me based on a strict reading of the cards, but conflicts the reported behavior of MF towards Hunting Party, so I wanted to check.

78

This is in the "Dominion General Discussion" section and not the articles section because
1) I don't truly understand these cards yet,
2) there's no thesis. It's just a bunch of rants in no particular order. Back to remedial writing class.

First of all, complaints of Warrior being OP are greatly exaggerated. Yes, you probably lose if the opponent's Warrior hits your Warrior, but the odds of this are less than, for instance, missing 3P after opening potion for a Familiar, or even splitting 4-3 where your opponent splits 5-2 on a Mountebank board. It's just not a game-warping asymmetry and not something worth disliking a card over.

Second, the common criticism of this line is: why am I filling my deck with treasures when I have Champion around who seems to really, really, want me to play a hard engine. And the answer is: well, sometimes that's tough, the line "junks" your deck with a couple silvers and golds so that you can get to champion and idk trash them and play your goons a bunch and buy out the pearl divers or whatever, but the other answer is, omg Champion is good in big money-ish decks. Ever played big money/smithy? Remember that part where you can't decide if you want another smithy or just a silver because you're scared they'll collide? Obsolete! I bought 8 rangers the other day. Ranger isn't a very good card. 8 non-terminal rangers, by contrast, make a deck pretty good.

I mean, Champion... Champion is ridiculous. The attack immunity and especially extra actions completely warp your early decisions. Laboratory becomes strictly worse than Smithy with Champion in play. But a Page on the board is so, so far from a Champion in play, that you have to revaluate the cost of everything several times over the game in light of "how soon is it to Champion time, when we're playing a completely different Game?" Same with attacks: do you really want to build a torturer chain when eventually your villages will become a waste of a buy and your torturer will become a glorified smithy? But conversely do you want to risk getting smothered before you get to Champion? Who knows?

other cards in order:

Page: She doesn't do anything but power up the Warrior.

Treasure Hunter: I'm with AdamH here, like, silver, whatever, some decks don't want it but those decks have ways of dealing with it; for every other deck, you add a couple silvers and you're happy. But treasure hunter can also do something funny in the end game, where you can easily gain a ludicrous number of silvers. Haven't yet had the pleasure of a treasure hunter/Feodum game, which I imagine is something like a duchy dance with an exponential growth function.

Warrior: The 3-4 limitation really hurts this attack (not that this is a bad thing). Now, cost reduction + lots of pages + Warrior is probably a thing, but even that is a damn tricky thing since whenever Warrior is available, Champion is available to perma-moot it. Doesn't feel like a cheap way to win at all; I'd have mad respect for someone that pulled this off against me (it has yet to happen).

Hero: the funniest, but again, not much reason to keep this one around. Maybe worth turning a second page into a hero on a colony board just to workshop platina? Dunno, haven't tried it. Good Combo with Horn of Plenty (the whole line is, of course).

79
edit: deleted and moved to correct subforum; theory please delete when you see this, sorry

80
Game Reports / raid
« on: May 14, 2016, 08:39:42 am »
around turn 3 i start thinking, why would anybody buy raid ever? it's way too expensive, the attack is middling, and why do you even want silvers unless there's feodum or something? and then i notice that there is, in fact, feodum.

http://gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?https://dominion-game-logs.s3.amazonaws.com/game_logs/20160514/log.0.1463229370961.txt


81
Game Reports / slow dance
« on: May 13, 2016, 07:16:34 pm »
With two provinces left on turn 12, as second player, with plentiful draw and buys and both of us stocking dangerous amounts of coin tokens, and with me behind by two points, I clearly have to buy a Duchy. Now opponent is in the same position. It's already clear that he'll win, but it's equally clear that we're going to have to go through the entire Duchy and Estate piles before he can do it, which is what happens.

https://dominion-game-logs.s3.amazonaws.com/game_logs/20160513/log.0.1463181275495.txt

82
Game Reports / Giant seems ok
« on: May 06, 2016, 12:34:22 pm »
On a board of:

Events: Borrow, Scouting Party
Supply cards: Familiar, Baron, Horse Traders, Bridge Troll, Ghost Ship, Giant, Haggler, Lost City, Merchant Ship, Wine Merchant, Copper, Silver, Gold, Estate, Duchy, Province, Curse, Potion

we both split 3/4. My opponent opened potion and I was curious if Giant stood a chance against Familiar (remembering way back in the day that Sea Hag is probably a better opening than Potion on an otherwise boring board with Familiar and Sea Hag), so I borrowed for a Giant on turn 2, expecting to lose.

log:
https://dominion-game-logs.s3.amazonaws.com/game_logs/20160506/log.0.1462552025757.txt

This ended up working out well. Curses split 6-4, with me taking one more than him, but counting the dead potion, this is really more like a 6-5 curse split. Meanwhile, after the curses run out, Giant is a nice card to have a few of in a crappy deck full of curses -- spiking 5 occasionally is way better in this sort of deck than just consistently giving 3. It's hard to say if I got lucky to get away with only getting 6 curses; my sense is that it was roughly par for the course (my opponent didn't get screwed out of any Familiars early, but my Giant never hit a 4-6 until after the Curse pile was empty).

But the real star of the show was Scouting Party. Man is that a good card when you are just trying to play your key cards over and over -- basically exactly the same sort of semi-slog deck that you are loath to fill with silver when you hit another 3 is the sort of slog deck that really wants Scouting Party all the time.

83
Goko Dominion Online / online version not working anymore?
« on: April 09, 2016, 04:23:19 pm »
I can't make Dominion run online in my browser anymore. When I try in Firefox it tells me my browser is incompatible and to use Firefox or Chrome. (?) When I try in Chrome my computer shuts down. I have an Ubuntu machine that I know nothing about.

84
Dominion General Discussion / doubling cube
« on: February 08, 2016, 06:45:13 pm »
Has anyone ever tried a series of Dominion games with a doubling cube? So you agree to play to some fixed number of wins, and then once per game you can turn the cube and pass it to your opponent to offer that they resign, or else double the stakes of the game. (Within the same game, the opponent can pass the cube back to you to quadruple the stakes or accept your resignation at double the stakes; if this happens, then theoretically you could repass it, etc...)

I think in general this would decrease the luck factor, but it would occasionally make it worse (you would probably pass the doubling cube right away if you split 5-2 on a Mountebank-Chapel board, for instance). The bigger advantage is making a tournament situation move faster.

85
Rules Questions / is the card chosen by Scavenger public information?
« on: February 07, 2016, 07:27:58 am »
i noticed that in the online implementation, the log tells me what card my opponent chose to put on top with Scavenger. Is this correct?

86
Puzzles and Challenges / Two buffs
« on: December 30, 2015, 04:27:44 pm »
1. Trade Route: +1 coin. (For a total of 1 + the number of tokens on the trade route map.)

2. Death Cart: +1 Buy.

I think the Trade Route buff is fine but the DC buff might make it too swingy.

87
Goko Dominion Online / memory leak ?
« on: November 29, 2015, 08:44:50 am »
I just started playing the new version the past couple days because the in-browser version was working, but just now I got an error message from my browser saying the tab was using too much memory. I wonder if this is a bug.

Note that otherwise I really like the new version. (I think this is probably because I don't own the cards, so I'm used to not being able to automatch against who I want to.)

88
Goko Dominion Online / attn:
« on: November 27, 2015, 01:20:35 pm »
I just tried the new implementation for the first time. I think the crystal ball animation is kind of cool.

89
Other Games / Bridge
« on: November 08, 2015, 07:36:12 am »
Bridge is the German board game to end all German board games, despite neither being German nor using a board. The scoring system has been relentlessly balanced to reward extremely precise, meticulous, strategic play. At the same time, there are elements of luck, deception, and communication, as in Poker, except, unlike in Poker, your reaction to the signals you receive informs the way you solve a logic puzzle. To win at Bridge requires not only exacting thought, but also a general feel for the lay of the hand, a lot of good judgment, and a little bit of luck.

To have fun at Bridge, on the other hand, requires none of these investments, but only a couple hours to get accustomed to the rules.

Three common objections to bridge:

1. The scoring system is needlessly complicated. Part of this is true -- the scoring system is complicated. But every little tweak matters. The scoring system was meticulously balanced in the early part of the 20th century (before Bridge was a distinct game from Whist) and has been rebalanced once or twice sense (most noteably in the late 80s, in response to a rarely-arising OP sacrifice bid). Every number has been thought about, and changes the strategy of the game (sometimes in big ways; sometimes in subtle ways). The good news is that strategy for beginners isn't very sensitive to the finer points of scoring; you can go ahead and start playing right away, looking up the scores as you go.

2. I don't have time to memorize the incredibly arcane bidding conventions. Fair! Nobody does -- you can't just pick up a book full of sequences and have it in your head. Start with a simple system that you can fit onto a page. As you gain experience, sequences stop seeming like artificial code and start seeming totally obvious. Then, add as many "gadgets" as you like, but never more than you can handle. You'll start to come up with clever meanings for some bids yourself; you'll ask yourself -- why don't they do it this way?

3. Bridge is for little old ladies. This one is true too: a lot of little old ladies play bridge. But here's the catch: those little old ladies will kick your butt. Spending 20 years doing the same thing after Tuesday afternoon has a way of making you pretty good at it.

OK, you've convinced me: now what?
Join your local bridge club! If you're in the US, Canada, or Mexico, it'll be listed on acbl.org. Most small to medium sized cities have at least one; try Google. For online play, nothing beats bridgebase.com. If you have Windows, they also offer a lot of free teaching software.

90
Dominion General Discussion / 5 cost treasures
« on: October 31, 2015, 10:47:19 am »
anyone else autopilot to ignore 5 cost treasures, only to fail to notice that Counterfeit is on the board? It turns out that this problem extends even to filling out Qvist's ranking chart.

(luckily, probably because of the artwork and the hyphen in the name, my autopilot doesn't miss IGG)

91
Game Reports / like an edge case puzzle
« on: September 21, 2015, 03:49:16 pm »
turn 30, i discard 7 tunnels, but don't reveal them, because if i do, the gold pile will empty, ending the game in my loss

http://logs.prod.dominion.makingfun.com//20150921/log.516d3391e4b082c74d7b3910.1442864821531.txt

this would be a cooler story if i had wound up winning, but it was close!

92
General Discussion / i broke a glass this morning
« on: September 03, 2015, 09:17:00 pm »
i was on the way to work, and in a rush. when i grabbed my computer, the cord knocked over a glass. i swept it up and ran out.

anyway just now i stepped on a shard and that business hurts!! sorry, i had to tell someone.

93
Dominion Articles / key cards in Dominion: a report card.
« on: August 30, 2015, 07:51:24 am »
This article is for beginning players; I don't expect experienced players to get very much out of it, although I hope it will be fun for them to debate.

Experienced and inexperienced Dominion players alike love arguing about which cards are better than which others. And indeed, if you wander this site, you can find years worth of rankings, and of arguments about what the true definition of rankings should be, etc.

This list is intended to contribute to that discussion, but it is not a ranking. Rather, it's a "report card," which assigns each card a grade.

When you look at a board, one quick skill is to identify key cards and to build a strategy around them. This list grades cards by how likely they are to be "key cards." There are only three grades, and most cards get a B.

A = almost always a key card. May need one or two helpers to be truly dominant, but those helpers arise frequently enough that we always worry about this card a little before the game starts: do we want it, and if we don't, how do we defend against our opponent who will likely buy it? A classic example of a solid A card is Goons.

B = not usually a key card, but likely to be useful. We may well buy one or more of these to support a strategy. Sometimes, this card can be a key card, with the right combination of helpers; however, the first strategies we look for don't revolve around B cards. A classic example of a B card is Laboratory. Almost every deck is improved by Laboratory, but it's not the center piece of any strategy. A different sort of example is Gardens. If we look at a board and there are not a lot of great strategies available, we may consider a Gardens-centered strategy, but we need to find helpers.

C = rarely worth reflecting about. We don't expect to lose too many more games if we simply pretend this pile isn't there. Sometimes a card in this pile can be useful if it is, for instance, the only card on the board that provides +Buy. For example, Woodcutter is a C card. Of course every pile has a purpose, and the best players can and do use C cards to their advantage.

We will use + and - in a category to mean a card is borderline between two categories. A grade of A+ is not given; for the purpose of this list, it doesn't matter which A cards are better than the others. Note that having a higher grade does not necessarily mean being a "better card." For example, Laboratory is almost certainly a better card than Bridge, but is less likely to be a key card and so has a lower grade.

The grades are based on 2-player Dominion; many cards would change grades in multiplayer. This list is obviously my opinion. In particular, the Adventures cards are not graded because I have only played a few games with them.

Warning: Card interaction is 98% of Dominion strategy, and this report card cannot help you with it at all. For example, Chancellor and Stash are both solid C cards, but the combo Chancellor/Stash would be at least an A-. More fundamentally, knowing which cards in a kingdom are good doesn't tell you how to buy them, how to build a deck around them, and how to play them. But it's a start.

Base
2
Cellar B
Chapel A
Moat B-
3
Chancellor C
Village B
Woodcutter C
Workshop B-
4
Bureaucrat C
Feast C
Gardens B
Militia B+
Moneylender B
Remodel B
Smithy B
Spy C
Thief C-
Throne Room B
5
Council Room B
Festival B
Laboratory B
Library B
Market B
Mine B-
Witch A
6
Adventurer C-

Intrigue
2
Courtyard B
Pawn B
Secret Chamber C
3
Great Hall C
Masquerade A
Shanty Town B
Steward A-
Swindler A-
Wishing Well B
4
Baron B
Bridge A-
Conspirator A-
Coppersmith C
Ironworks B
Mining Village B
Scout C-
5
Duke A-
Minion A
Saboteur C
Torturer A-
Trading Post B
Tribute B-
Upgrade A-
6
Harem B
Nobles B

Seaside
2
Embargo C
Haven B
Lighthouse B
Native Village B
Pearl Diver C
3
Ambassador A
Fishing Village A
Lookout B
Smugglers B
Warehouse B
4
Caravan B
Cutpurse B
Island B
Navigator C+
Pirate Ship C+
Salvager B
Sea Hag A
Treasure Map B
5
Bazaar B
Explorer C
Ghost Ship A
Merchant Ship B
Outpost B+
Tactician A-
Treasury B
Wharf A

Alchemy
2
Herbalist C
5
Apprentice B+
P
Transmute C-
Vineyard A
2P
Apothecary B+
Scrying Pool A
University B+
3P
Alchemist B
Familiar A
Philosopher’s Stone C
4P
Golem B
6P
Possession A-

Prosperity
3
Loan B
Trade Route B-
Watchtower B
4
Bishop B
Monument B+
Quarry B+
Talisman B
Worker’s Village B
5
City B
Contraband C+
Counting House C-
Mint B
Mountebank A
Rabble B
Royal Seal C
Vault B
Venture B
6
Goons A
Grand Market A
Hoard B
7
Bank B
Expand B
Forge B+
King’s Court A
8
Peddler A-

Cornucopia
2
Hamlet A-
3
Fortune Teller C
Menagerie A-
4
Farming Village B
Horse Traders B
Remake A-
Tournament A
Young Witch A
5
Harvest C
Horn of Plenty B+
Hunting Party A
Jester B
6
Fairgrounds B+

Hinterlands
2
Crossroads B
Duchess C
Fool’s Gold A-
3
Develop B-
Oasis B
Oracle B
Scheme B
Tunnel B+
4
Jack of All Trades A-
Noble Brigand B-
Nomad Camp C
Silk Road B
Spice Merchant B
Trader B
5
Cache C
Cartographer B+
Embassy B+
Haggler A-
Highway A-
Ill-Gotten Gains A
Inn B
Mandarin  C+
Margrave A-
Stables B
6
Border Village B+
Farmland B

Dark Ages
1
Poor House B-
2
Beggar C
Squire B
Vagrant B-
3
Forager A
Hermit A-
Market Square B
Sage B
Storeroom B
Urchin A
4
Armory B
Death Cart C
Feodum C+
Fortress B
Ironmonger B+
Marauder A-
Procession B
Rats B-
Scavenger B
Wandering Minstrel B+
5
Band of Misfits B-
Bandit Camp B+
Catacombs B
Count A-
Counterfeit A-
Cultist A
Graverobber B
Junk Dealer A-
Knights B
Mystic B
Pillage C
Rebuild A
Rogue B
6
Altar B
Hunting Grounds B

Guilds
2
Candlestick Maker B
Stonemason A-
3
Doctor B
Masterpiece B
4
Advisor B
Herald B
Plaza B
Taxman B-
5
Baker B
Butcher A-
Journeyman B
Merchant Guild B+
Soothsayer A-

Promos
Black Market A-
Envoy B
Walled Village B
Governor A
Stash C

94
Dominion General Discussion / minion tactics note
« on: August 01, 2015, 06:35:42 am »
When your deck centers around Minion as a sort of self-contained engine, typically, given a starting hand of the form (say)

Minion-Minion-Steward-Copper-Estate

you will play the first Minion for +2, then play the second for the 4 cards, hoping this process will get you to 8. In such a deck, it's better if Minions clump; Minion - Minion - Minion - Copper - Estate is almost surely a province hand; Minion - Silver -Copper - Copper -Copper is very frustrating, because it often draws another hand with exactly one Minion.

However, sometimes, the point of the deck isn't so much to make money Minion-ing as to play key action cards again and again; principally, Goons, but also Monument, possibly Knights, possibly some new cards I haven't thought about. Let's imagine a thin deck with some Minions, Goons, and Villages, but no draw other than the Minion. Then you tend to want a very different distribution of Minions in the deck In fact, assuming your deck composition is the same in both cases,

Minion-Minion-Village-Goons-Copper

can be a less desirable hand to see at the start of your turn than

Minion-Village-Goons-Copper-Copper.

Why? With hand one, if you play village, Minion for coins, Goons, and then use a Minion to draw 4 fresh cards, there's one fewer Minion for you to draw, and so the probability that you reach the second Goons in your deck is lower. But playing that second Goons is much more important than taking +2coins from the extra Minion. So clumpy Minions are bad in this deck, not good.

It gets worse if, after playing a hand like the above, you shuffle into Minion-goons-goons-copper. You could go hunting for your villages, but if you find them, will you get back to your Goons? Probably not if you've already played 3 Minions.

There is a simple, but counterintuitive, solution to this problem. Not always, but sometimes, when you draw the "clumpy-Minion" hand, you need to shuffle a perfectly good Minion back in! That is, play Village, Goons, then Minion for new cards, discarding the other Minion. The point is that later in the hand is a much better time for you to know whether you are going to need that second Minion for the draw or for the +2 coins. Committing yourself to the coins now means you can't use it for the draw later.

Again, this isn't for always; it's for thin decks where you're hopeful you'll see the Minion you discarded again. If there's little hope of that, then take the coins. This may already be obvious to experts, but it's something I've only just started doing after maybe 15000 games of Dominion, and it seems useful to share.

95
Goko Dominion Online / why so many online recently?
« on: May 30, 2015, 02:18:29 pm »
i've noticed maybe two to three more lobbies are full than normal.

96
Dominion General Discussion / rebuild question
« on: May 16, 2015, 01:55:01 am »
in a mirror, what should you do if you draw your rebuild with your last estate, when there are duchies remaining and no provinces missing?

97
Game Reports / is Harvest/Tunnel OK?
« on: May 02, 2015, 01:07:41 pm »
I saw this board and thought it looked pretty weak. Normally Alchemist doesn't appeal to me, but I didn't see anything that could beat a simple Alchemist stack here. I also liked its unsmugglability.



Code: [Select]
Lighthouse, Pawn, Smugglers, Tunnel, Alchemist, Treasure Map, Bandit Camp, Harvest, Merchant Ship, Treasury
http://logs.prod.dominion.makingfun.com//20150502/log.513ac8bfe4b05fa06a312dcd.1430586020503.txt


My opponent surprised me by getting a Harvest with his first 6. I'm so unaccustomed to Harvest that I had already said to myself "there's nothing on this board that can discard a Tunnel." Even though I had definitely had better Alchemist luck than average, I only managed to tie the game. (Note that we didn't have point counter on). What can I do to improve my Alchemist stack? Is there some payload purchase that should be different? Or is Harvest/Tunnel better than I'm giving it credit for?

98
Dominion General Discussion / university/distant lands
« on: April 25, 2015, 03:43:09 am »
this seems like a pretty strong um, pair of cards which help each other. take a lot of extra time to build your engine. once you can draw your deck, you're just gaining 4vp and islanding it away the same turn. needs good handsize increasers, as university always does.

99
Dominion: Adventures Previews / Adventures on Wiki
« on: April 19, 2015, 05:39:38 pm »
This is not due to me so don't +1 this post, but I just noticed that someone has put all the cards and pictures with text in order on the Wiki here: http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Adventures

which is a lot easier than thumbing through a pdf of the rulebook when mindlessly speculating about the cards. Thanks!!

100
Dominion: Adventures Previews / edge-case this, please
« on: April 18, 2015, 05:56:11 am »
There's never a reason to have more than one Champion in play. You get more +Action, but since one Champion already gives you as many Actions as you can play, it can't matter.

(Thought of an edge-case while typing this: Diadem. It's pretty hard to imagine having time to get two Champions in play in a Tournament game, but you never know. And I suppose Tournament encourages you to go for Champion's perma-moat pretty hard.)

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