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26

Game Reports / Do you know boards that produce long games?

« on: March 08, 2015, 02:47:35 pm »

Hi,

I played a few games on the following board:

Code: [Select]

Poor House, Moat, Doctor, Warehouse, Wishing Well, Gardens, Spice Merchant, Taxman, Ghost Ship, Knights
After two games on the board I had the feeling that games take a little longer than usual. In the third game I tried a strategy without the trashing of Spice Merchant in order to benefit from some late purchases of Gardens.
I opened Silver/Taxman and competed for the Wishing Well pile in order to have decent deck cycling speed. I try to have the same number of Knights as my opponent.
What do you think about the opening and about the strategy? Would you choose another approach?

The log: https://gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?20150307/log.51279b11e4b03ef870c8e38e.1425797957997.txt

Can you post other kingdoms that tend to produce long games in your replies?
Because I really enjoy these long games.

Probably the game takes longer because of Ghost Ship and lack of major engine components (I see only Wishing Well and Warehouse).
That made me think about game length in general. So far I know for example that games involving IGG, Rebuild or Council Room can be very short.
What is the situation for cursers like Sea Hag? On the hand Sea Hag gives curses and this bloat of decks will lengthen the game. On the other hand the curse pile will be emptied and therefore the 3-pile ending is coming closer.
Soothsayer is even more interesting in this case. Soothsayer has Council Room components as well as a cursing component. What is the impact of Soothsayer on the game length?

If you are interested in a game on that board write in the comments. For example I have time for a game tomorrow in the morning or in the afternoon.

27

Dominion General Discussion / Jokes^^

« on: December 23, 2014, 01:28:55 pm »

Dont you think Tactician looks like a man who is about to puke^^?
 Like starring on the paper and thinking: "Oh i feel sick and all the people sitting at the table are so ugly. I think I have to puke"



Someone wrote a song for Fairgrounds

28

Help! / Help

« on: December 20, 2014, 12:33:03 pm »

Hi,

I played a game on this board:

Code: [Select]

Beggar, Lookout, Ironmonger, JackOfAllTrades, Sea Hag, Highway, Market, Saboteur, Trading Post, Upgrade
Log of the game: http://gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?20141220/log.51279b11e4b03ef870c8e38e.1419070745227.txt

My opponent opened Jack of all Trades/Lookout while I went for Sea Hag/Lookout.
(Did you know that Councilroom's ranking of openings suggests that Jack of all Trades/Lookout (+4)<Sea Hag/Lookout (+5)?)

I believe on this board JoaT/Lookout is the strongest 4/3 opening. (I change my mind^^ maybe Ironmonger/Lookout was very strong here because I think
it stresses the engine more and is not playing in the hands of JoaT/Lookout)
And after the game I had the feeling my opponent somehow translated this opening advantage into win.
Why did I open Sea Hag/Lookout? With Sea Hag I opened the battle for the minority of the curse pile. With Lookout I
address the issue that this is an engine board and engines love early trashing.
This is probably the first reason why JoaT was the superior choice. He can trash. My opponent also following the logic
of early trashing with another Lookout on turn 3.
In order to get access to cards costing $5 I have to buy a Silver.
The second reason why JoaT was superior. He gets the Silver for my opponent without wasting his or her buys.
The third reason I believe JoaT was superior is, that it is difficult to get an reliable (whole deck drawing engine)
out of this board. Therefore the Silvers hurt less, than they normally do in an engine and with for example Upgrade and
his or hers two Lookouts he has good control of the amount of Silver in the deck even with the presence of JoaT.

After that I add a Market and at any given opportunity Highways or Ironmongers.
Please look at both decks after turn 10. Are the decks even or has someone already the upper hand?
(The differences I realize are that I have an Ironmonger more while he has 2 Silvers and an Upgrade)

Turn 11: My opponent buys a Province (Would you do the same?)
On turn 13 I return the favour and also buy a Province (Right or wrong?)
Do you think it was correct to catch up with provinces on turn 17? (Would you buy Silver instead of Beggar here?
Although Beggar did a nice job allowing me to buy 2 Provinces on turn 18)

If you notice something that I can improve, please tell me. I appreciate it.
Thanks for help

29

Game Reports / Re: If 4/3 both => Big Money?

« on: December 14, 2014, 03:42:53 am »

Ah thank you for your answer. What does BMU mean? Is it Big Money without actions?

30

Game Reports / If 4/3 both => Big Money?

« on: December 13, 2014, 06:01:22 am »

Hi there,

Do you think on this board both players with a 4/3 start a Big Money strategy involving Pirate Ship will win against an engine approach with Golem/Treasury ?
If one of them gets a 5/2 start and goes for an engine can the 4/3 player still win with a Big Money strategy?

Code: [Select]

Poor House, Navigator, Pirate Ship, Trader, Golem, Harvest, Mandarin, Mine, Treasury, Tribute

31

Help! / Does Fools Gold + Tactician just suck?

« on: November 30, 2014, 05:48:28 am »

Hello,

I want to learn what is a correct strategy on this board (not excluding that there is some room for adaption depending on my opponent purchases).
The game included Colonies

Code: [Select]

Fool's Gold, Pearl Diver, Stonemason, Loan, Procession, Bazaar, Council Room, Haggler, Tactician, Nobles
On 5/2 I thought about opening with Tactician/ Fools Gold
On 4/3 I was first thinking about Loan/Fools Gold, because Fools Gold likes trashing (sometimes^^ not from Chapel I learned in the wiki), but Loan may hit Fools Gold
and does not help me to buy $5 cards. So on 4/3 I go either Fools Gold/Silver or Fools Gold/Fools Gold. I went for Silver/Fools Gold.
My opponent by the way went Silver/Loan. Maybe this is stronger? Someone knows that?

http://gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?20141130/log.51279b11e4b03ef870c8e38e.1417341540350.txt

This is the log.

On turn 4 my opponent buys Stonemason gaining 2 Pearl Divers. In my opinion this is not good. Wouldnt it be just better to get Fools Gold or Silver instead here?

On turn 4 I buy the Tactician. Should I buy here a Haggler instead?

What was the correct buy on turn 7 for me? Was Bazaar better than Nobles here or vice versa? When would you start to buy Nobles?

On turn 12 I have the following Hand: Tactician Haggler 3x Fool Gold
Can Tactician compensate haggler +3x Fool Gold? If you choose Haggler 3x Fools Gold you buy and gain here?

Turn 13: Should I buy Silver here or nothing? How many Silvers one should posses here at most (before they become a burden) when going for a Tactician and later Nobles/Bazaar mix?

I learned that I have no clue about when to buy Platin. My trust in treasures was shaken, since I found out how little treasure  most engines need to run. Do you have some basic rules (of course there are exceptions) when to buy Platin?

I lost terribly. If you find more noticeable things in the log, please tell me. Dominion is wonderful

32

Goko Dominion Online / Re: Schedule matches with f.ds just for fun

« on: November 24, 2014, 01:07:42 pm »

ok no more time

33

Goko Dominion Online / Re: Schedule matches with f.ds just for fun

« on: November 24, 2014, 12:42:27 pm »

someone wants to play now?
I have all expansions but my only promo is governor.
So far I was not able to use goko salvager. Can I play without it?

34

Help! / Re: hiroki vs goko took my $ - log

« on: November 18, 2014, 12:59:27 pm »

Because I have to distract me at the moment
I finished the commentary on the log.
Maybe one day it can become an annoted game.
I once dreamed about a future
where Dominion Clubs were as usual as
Chess Clubs and every year
there is World Dominion Championship match
just like in chess. I heard Magnus Carlsen
studied  a games collection of the former
world chess champion Wladimir Kramnik in
his youth.
Maybe one day there will be a games collection
of a strong Dominion player with more than just
plain log, but some explanation about his or her
decisions, just like in chess books.
The only problem I can think of is that unlike a Dominion game
played online, a live Dominion
game played with ordinary cards is difficult to log^^



I want to change my statement  for gtm$ for turn 10.
WV is a good choiche for the Haggler gain but it is
just too late.
After hirokis 11th turn the WV split is 7-2 in his favour.
Gtm$ can hardly play WV+Hunting Grounds.
(I ask myself, whether on this board you can play an IGG rush with
2-3 Bishops. Because after the IGG+Curse piles are gone buying
Duchies and trashing IGGs with Bishop sets the opponent under
pressure. Probably the (engine) opponent has to get additional Bishops
himself and has to trash some of his valuable cards like Hunting Grounds.
But the fact that he get Duchies when trashing Hunting Grounds
creates doubts inside of me.
I change my mind. IGG rush is not the way to go here^^)
On turn 12 hiroki has another strong turn buying lots of engine
components and an additional Bishop probably adapting to
gtm$ numerous IGG buys.
Gtm$ continues to buy IGG and gain Bishops. This is similar to
what I wrote above and probably can not prevent him from losing,
but what card purchases at this stage of the game can? So it is
difficult to give good advice to gtm$ because of his difficult
position (lost WV split 2-8 with WV being the only village,
can not play his Hunting Grounds efficiently).
Greening: On turn 13 hiroki and gtm$ both grab their first Colony.
But on turn 14 only hiroki is to repeat to buy a Colony.
On turn 15 another 2 Colonies and a Province for hiroki and 2
Great Halls for gtm$. I am sure both players were aware of the
outcome of the game several turns before and just play it to an end.
Last turn: Turn 17
Final Score: 75(hiroki) - 35(gtm$)

35

Help! / hiroki vs goko took my $ - log

« on: November 16, 2014, 06:03:07 am »

Hey guys, I wrote a bit about a log from Hiroki vs goko took my $. I can imagine that I missed (or just get wrong) a million tactical, strategical and orthographical issues when I worte this. In fact I did not even finish the whole game because it was too long for me. Also there this post lacks in structure, but this is just the way my brain works- not structured :/ But I already spent so much time writing this so if I do not post it now, I will never post it. But I want to post it because it is fun^^. Do not hesitate to write your thoughts on it even if its just a small part of text you want to comment on. I appreciate your thoughts on it.


Hiroki vs goko took my $:
The log: http://gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?20141110/log.52215356e4b08be7ae40aa77.1415684325226.txt

Code: [Select]

Haven, Great Hall, Bishop, Death Cart, Noble Brigand, Worker's Village, Embassy, Haggler, Ill-Gotten Gains, Hunting Grounds
I see three strategies: Embassy big money (I think is ruled out by the Colonies), IGG rush and engine.

Thoughts to some cards:

Bishop:  Engine: Bishop is weakened by the shelters and improved by Hunting Grounds. However if the opponent goes for an engine approach Bishop can really backfire when played in the Endgame and giving the opponent opportunity to trash Hunting Grounds. And Bishop helps your opponent out thinning his deck. 1-2 Bishops are desirable depending how many IGG your opponent is to buy. When thinking about the number of Bishops you want in your deck you should consider the number of IGG and Hunting Grounds in your opponents deck. While IGG encourages Bishop buys Hunting Ground should discourage them. Probably engine is the strongest approach because it is less commital than an IGG rush, because it can still grab an IGG or two whenever it desires.
IGG rush: In the Endgame I hate Bishop and 4 Coppers in hand, because I can not buy a Duchy :/
Is IGG countered by Bishops?

Death Cart: Death Cart is strictly improved by shelters and Hunting Grounds.

Haggler: Haggler is improved by Colonies and Platins.


Not game related thoughts that just came to mind while studying the log: I think really strong players have a decision process similar to chess professionals looking at „candidate“ buys and then imagining scenarios how the pile splits will end up. I think some questions of Dominion can not be solved by logic. Sometimes extensive simulation from the current state of the game is needed to find out whether a decision was right or wrong.

Hiroki vs goko took my $:

Opening: Something keeps Hiroki from buying a Bishop in the opening, whereas gtm$ buys a Bishop. They have a different assesment when to buy the bishop on this board.

Pre-greening: Turn 3: Buying Workers Village Hiroki reveals his intention to go for an engine and he adresses the fact that Workers Village is the only Village on this board and having a majority (6-4) maybe a big advantage. I think if there was a second Village type of card another Silver would be nice as well, since Embassy and Hunting Grounds are strong drawers and encourage a higher number of treasures for engines.
After that both players get Haggler,  a key card on this board. Is a second or even a third Haggler desirable?

Turn 5 gtm$: 4$: He gets rid of his Hovel. Was Workers Village the stronger purchase?

Turn 6: Hiroki has 5$ and still goes for Workers Village. He really wants a healthy share of the Workers Village pile I guess. Embassy was probably weaker here, because Embassy is not the only way to improve the hand size and gives the opponent Silver which is good for him because the strong drawers encourage a higher number of treasures than usually found in engines.
Turn 6 gtm$: 6$ Hunting Grounds because he has an engines approach and IGG because Hiroki has no Bishop, yet. Understandable choices. Is gtm$ already behind?

Turn 7 Hiroki: Hiroki buys a Platin. (Would he also have bought that Platin when there is no Haggler?) and he gains Hunting Grounds. He already has 2 more Workers Villages than gtm$ so he can afford not grab one here?
Turn 7 gtm$: gtm$ is fighting  Buying Hunting Grounds and gaining IGG from Haggler. I ask myself: Was a Workers Village preferable instead of IGG.

Turn 8 Hiroki: Hiroki buys Platin and gets his Bishop through Haggler. Was the Bishop necessary? Would it be stronger to just go for another Hunting Grounds? If Hiroki remains with no Bishop maybe the accumulation of VP tokens by gtm$ Bishop gets inconvenient.

Turn 8 gtm$: Another Hunting Ground + IGG. I think there is a strategy shift by gtm$ because he gives up on the Workers Village pile entirely. He is looking for an advantage by cursing his opponent and maybe tactical trash some Hunting Grounds later. However Hiroki has this ability as well. Probably Hiroki has already a strong lead.

Turn 9: gtm$ is commited to IGG and Hiroki to his engine approach.

Turn 10 gtm$: Is grabing a Workers Village. Considering his emphasis on IGG does Workers Village still fit into his strategy?

This is the end. I am running out of time :/ And I know that I will not have the discipline to complete this iteratively. My apologies to you

36

Help! / stef vs awaclus log

« on: November 13, 2014, 12:50:55 pm »

Hi,

http://gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?20141113/log.50b20dc3e4b0c9ce0cf27eb3.1415895973660.txt

I read the stef vs awaclus log above and I want to understand why stef starts buying provinces on turn 11. I always heard I should start to green when there is no way to improve my deck anymore or if I am behind two provinces. But I think on turn 11 one can still buy wishing well or a gold maybe. Why is it correct to buy a province here? Thank you for your help.

37

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Is it allowed to use the pictures of the cards on facebook posts?

« on: October 07, 2014, 01:12:59 am »

Thank you very much for your answers They helped me a lot.

38

Dominion General Discussion / Is it allowed to use the pictures of the cards on facebook posts?

« on: October 06, 2014, 01:08:33 pm »

Hi,

sometimes I feel like writing something about Dominion on Facebook. Is it allowed to use original pictures of the cards in a facebook post? I just remember that isotropic worked around this by using different pictures. However, some of the strategy articles on dominionstrategy.com use original pictures of the cards. Is it because dominionstrategy.com has special rights allowing them to use original pictures? Or is just fine to use these pictures? But why was isotropic not to use the pictures?

I think board games first impress with their appearance. Thats why I want to use original pictures in my posts. And I also believe that Dominion is a game you can study your whole life without learning all its secrets. And please dont worry about the content of the posts. Because I know many friends that never googled for strategies for Dominion. I already learned some basic truths about Dominion (Recently, I watched some of shecantsayno videos about teaching jerni), but of course I am not a master. But if I know people who are blind and I have one eye, I can help them to see. Of course not with the quality of a person having two healthy eyes.
What do you think?

39

Help! / Re: Help! This board is my nemesis (3 consecutive losses)

« on: August 08, 2014, 01:23:51 am »

Thank you for your answers. They are really helping me^^

40

Help! / Help! This board is my nemesis (3 consecutive losses)

« on: August 07, 2014, 02:18:11 pm »

Hi,

Before you start to read I want to apologize, because the article was written under time pressure and therefore not written very meticulous. I played this board recently.

Code: [Select]

Horse Traders, Militia, Rats, Bandit Camp, Highway, Journeyman, Merchant Guild, Treasury, Venture, Grand Market
Game 1:

http://gokologs.drunkensailor.org/static/logprettifier.html?20140731/log.51279b11e4b03ef870c8e38e.1406800584300.txt

I lost. After a loss I sometimes play the same board again until I am convinced that I found a strategy winning the majority of games on the board. I admit in the first game it is probably an opening mistake to buy the militia, because it is soft countered by horse trader and the horsetrader has a good synergy to highway, which has a synergy to grand market. Also  merchant guild on turn 5 is maybe a mistake. Maybe merchant guild is not worth to be bought on this board at all. Another question that comes to my mind is how many journeyman and bandit camps are probably required? I feel the need for at least 2 journeyman, because there is no trashing. However, I might be wrong about that.

Game 2:

http://gokologs.drunkensailor.org/static/logprettifier.html?20140806/log.51279b11e4b03ef870c8e38e.1407346683630.txt

In the second game I was happy because my opponent bought 2 horse traders in a row and I considered that as a mistake. Besides a got a nice lead in grand markets after turn 15 (After I lost the game I chatted with my opponent asking why he bought two horse traders. He explained they combo well with his big mass of highways I concluded that I was wrong about the horse traders. And he said that militia is probably bad on this board )  I really got a lead in grand markets but than suddenly on turn 19  my opponent has a mega turn and gets so many colonies that I decided to resign.

Game 3:

http://gokologs.drunkensailor.org/static/logprettifier.html?20140807/log.51279b11e4b03ef870c8e38e.1407432375817.txt

With all the experience and knowledge gained from the two previous games I hoped to win this time. I was impressed by the strategy of my opponent on game 2. I decided to copy the strategy. So no militia, no merchant guild, 2 horse traders many highways. After highways are empty go for grand markets. But I get busted. By turn 13 my opponent starts to buy lots of ventures. I thought this is a mistake too since the ventures should clog up his deck. However he still produces quite good turns. After he has a lead of 3 colonies I resign.

I am happy about your feedback about what I can improve here and there. Thank you

Cheers,

love

41

Help! / Re: A Wharf game. Why does my opponent get the initiative?

« on: July 26, 2014, 11:38:58 am »

Thank you a lot for your instructive answers.

42

Help! / A Wharf game. Why does my opponent get the initiative?

« on: July 26, 2014, 05:05:13 am »

Hi,

I played a game on this board:

Code: [Select]

Crossroads, Watchtower, Armory, Feast, Gardens, Scout, Thief, Graverobber, Laboratory, Wharf
The log:

http://dominionlogs.goko.com/20140726/log.51279b11e4b03ef870c8e38e.1406359611108.txt

My first two buys are both Silvers, because I wanted to get Wharfs and 2 Gold. Should I have taken a Feast in the opening?
On Turn 9 I buy a duchy having a hovel at the same time. Is this decision correct?
Should I have purchased another Wharf instead?
After my opponent buys double province on turn 11 I feel my position is worse. What improvements do you suggest?
Thank you a lot for your help!

Cheers,
love

43

Help! / Re: I have a problem with Goons

« on: June 08, 2014, 12:57:58 am »

Thanks for your advice. It is very instructive.

44

Help! / I have a problem with Goons

« on: June 07, 2014, 05:00:54 pm »

Hi,

I recently played a game on this board.
http://dominionlogs.goko.com/20140607/log.51279b11e4b03ef870c8e38e.1402172930946.txt

Log:
http://gokologs.drunkensailor.org/static/logprettifier.html?20140607/log.51279b11e4b03ef870c8e38e.1402172930946.txt

Thoughts: So far I always thought it is not that good to bloat the deck with coppers once you have a good draw with 3 or more goons, except the turn before the end of the game. However I feel the engine of my opponent does not choke although he buys coppers.
On turn 11 I realised a mistake. I played the second watchtower instead of keeping it and using his ability to trash coppers I buy. Do you see further things to improve?

 I hope I posted board and log the correct way. Else I say sorry.

Cheers,
love

45

Dominion General Discussion / Is this a big money board?

« on: September 21, 2013, 07:41:23 am »

Hi,

look at this board: Vagrant, Watchtower, Woodcutter, Armory, Bridge, Nomad Camp, Rats, Scout, Wandering Minstrel, Jester (Shelter game). (How can I post the card images in this article? Its more beautiful.)


Do you know if on this board big money is stronger than an engine? Because I dont know
I just have some ideas: We have 1) +2 action
                                             2) +buy
                                             3) attack
                                             4) some sifting (Minstrel, Scout, Vagrant)
                                             5) a gainer (Armory)

                                We dont have 1) trashing

                                We have more or less 1) card draw (Watchtower).
                                I say more or less, because it is not synergizing well with
                                Wandering Minstrel.

So is it enough to beat big money?
                                                   

46

Dominion General Discussion / engine or big money?

« on: September 15, 2013, 11:51:13 am »

Hi,

I have questions! Imagine a board consisting of: Village, Smithy, Sea Hag and 7 other cards with little impact on anything (7 times Chancellor).
A.1) What is the right opening here?
   2) Is it better to go for an engine or for big money?

B. Now kick out one Chancellor and add Watchtower.
What are the answers for 1) and 2) now?

C. Replace Watchtower with Workshop.
What are the answers for 1) and 2) now?

Thank you so much:)

47

Dominion Articles / Re: Market chain, Gardens, Transition

« on: August 11, 2013, 07:40:56 am »

Ok thank you so far. I found the game:
http://dominionlogs.goko.com/20130811/log.516d3490e4b082c74d7b3c2e.1376212791921.txt

48

Dominion Articles / Market chain, Gardens, Transition

« on: August 11, 2013, 06:02:57 am »

Hi,

I played a game that included Market, Chapel and Gardens. My opponent and I went both for a Market chain.
On turn 14 my opponent is able to buy 2 Provinces. I want to stay ok and at the next opportunity I buy 1 province (turn 14).
Now I know that I want to use my Markets to get lots of cards and eventually Gardens (please tell me if this strategy is incorrect).
But how to do this? What is the best way to go? I think there are 2 options:
1) buying lots of cards and killing my Market chain. A "fast" transition into a deck with lots of Copper, Gardens and Duchy
2) or a slow transition emphasizing the slowly decreasing power of the Market chain when buying Copper.

In the game I went for the first option. I take the decision at my first Province buy (also turn 14). There are 5 buys left after the Province buy. And I buy 5 Coppers choosing option number 1. What was the right thing to do here?
The second option has a range buying 1 up to 4 Coppers. How many Coppers I should have bought?
Maybe there is rule, if you assume in the future there will be more turns (depending on the speed of the transition) with buys leftover that says: "first two of these turns you buy 1-2 Copper. After that you use all your leftover buys for copper"

I am aware that the setup I described might be unprecise. How can I post the game log in this topic? I am very interested what is the right buying decision on my 14th turn. And I am looking forward to receive your suggestions.

Cheers,
love

49

Dominion Articles / How to open here?

« on: June 09, 2013, 05:06:08 am »

Hi,

We have a 2/5 start on this board:
1)Chapel
2)Market
3)Militia
4)Thief
5)Throne Room
6)Workshop
7)Bishop
8)Rabble
9)Royal Seal
10)Venture

I would open chapel/militia, because after trashing coppers I need some money to come back.
I decide against rabble, because I heard that it is weak in early game and is getting stronger in the late game.
Is it better to open chapel/market and hoping for a market-chain someday?
Do I miss something important?
Please help. Thank you^^

50

Dominion Articles / Re: Big money & Terminals

« on: June 08, 2013, 07:31:45 am »

Thank you for your answers.