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Messages - Titandrake

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1926
Game Reports / Re: Optimal on this board
« on: October 21, 2012, 03:36:25 pm »
I see two strategies here. Either you Remodel Copper -> Courtyard and Estate -> Walled Village and go for multiple Goons plays, or you go Courtyard-BM and pick some Goons along the way.

I'd probably try the Remodel route because I like engines more. I suspect the money route is faster though. Walled Village is the only source of +Actions, Courtyard a bad card drawer in engines, and you need those +Actions for multiple Goons.

1927
General Discussion / Re: Favorite Webcomics
« on: October 21, 2012, 04:36:36 am »
xkcd is like what Nedroid is now: Amazing when it's good, but most of the time it's average.

Dinosaur Comics, Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal are pretty good. MS Paint Adventures and Gunnerkrigg Court are nice if you're into story arcs and world-building. Have to give Gunnerkrigg the nod over MSPA, if only because MSPA takes a long time to catch up on.

1928
Game Reports / Check your buys...
« on: October 20, 2012, 07:28:38 pm »
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201210/20/game-20121020-162206-56f1d66c.html

It's a game with King's Court and lots of cantrips.

On my last turn, I have the lead 47-36. I get $18, which is exactly enough to buy 1 KC, 1 Market, and 3 Pawns for the 3-pile. So I instantly buy them all, except for the last Pawn.

I laughed really hard once I realized I didn't end the game. Then I lost. Oh well!

1929
Dominion Articles / Re: Request: Black Market
« on: October 19, 2012, 02:09:27 am »
How's Black Market / Gardens (treating Black Market as a Woodcutter variant, that is)?
The problem is that Black Market's pseudo +Buy only pertains to the Black Market deck. So even if the Black Market deck is all Pearl Divers, you probably won't buy them because you don't have the $4 for Gardens if you do.

Black Market/Vineyard is a bit better, because you only need to spend the $P on the Vineyard, leaving you free to buy lots of silly stuff.

1930
Dominion Articles / Re: Request: Black Market
« on: October 18, 2012, 11:00:12 pm »
Interestingly enough, I was planning to write a Black Market article, but never got around to actually doing it. Haven't played Dominion in the past few days, so here goes.

---

Often, Dominion cards can be classified into a certain category. You have trashers like Chapel and Remake, +Cards like Smithy, +Buy from Woodcutter and Herbalist, and +Actions from Village cards. Although this is not an exhaustive list, it shows that many Dominion cards can be grouped together into certain general effects.

Black Market throws all of that out the window. It is the only card in the game that allows you to buy cards from outside the game. And because of this, it is one of the most high-variance cards in the game. You can lose a game because one player managed to pick out a power card from the Black Market and you didn't, and there isn't really much you can do about it.

Downsides
Black Market is terminal. Because of this, it must always be judged in comparison to buying a Silver instead of Black Market.

Black Market is slow. Let's suppose you buy a Black Market on T1/T2. Then you play it on T3/T4. That means that if you buy something from the Black Market, the earliest you can see that card is on turn 5, and that's assuming you find the card you want.

It's unpredictable. There is absolutely no guaranteeing that you find the card you want, with the money to pay for it. The most important thing to remember about Black Market is that you should never assume you'll get a specific card. Rather, you should have several cards that you want to buy, and be flexible in building a plan that can accomodate them. Compare to new Dark Ages card Ironmonger.

When to buy Black Market

1. A slow game. This is probably the most important point to keep in mind. Black Market is only useful if you actually get the time to play the action card you bought. Against a fast Big Money strategy, like Embassy-BM or Courtyard-BM, I would hesitate at picking up Black Market. The fast pace means you play fewer Black Markets, have a smaller chance of obtaining a good card, and an even smaller chance of having that card have a meaningful impact.

2. Villages. Unless you're buying Black Market for variety (see a later point for this), Villages are almost essential to Black Market. Because of how the Black Market deck is created, you are going to primarily be buying actions, often terminals. You need Villages to ensure you can actually play them. And the Villages should be in the Kingdom rather than in the Black Market deck. Don't hope to get lucky and buy +Actions; buy them from the Kingdom.

3. Engine decks. If you can play Black Market every turn, you're bound to find what you want fairly quickly. The problem is that buying Black Market early will probably hurt the speed of your engine deployment. So in these games, you want to do it after you've picked up a few pieces.

4. Strong cards in the BM deck, preferably those strong even when bought late. Remember that when buying from a Black Market, you're getting the card turn 5 at the earliest. So although buying trashers from the Black market is tempting, I would hesitate about it. There's a reason you open Chapel, Steward, and Remake on T1/T2, and not on turn 5. Even Ambassador is not an amazing buy from the Black Market.

Also, there need to be strong cards. Not one strong card and several weak ones. There should be a couple (at least 3) cards that you really want from the Black Market, as well as some that you would be fine with adding to your deck (generally cantrips).

Cards to watch out for are:
  • Cursers. Although curse-givers are much stronger early on in the game than later, Curses are still amazingly painful. Still, if there's only one Curser and nothing else, I wouldn't bother unless the board was very slow. The chances of getting it are too slim otherwise.
  • Missing engine components. This should be considered more as a bonus than as an active reason to buy it.

    Good engines typically have +Actions, +Cards, and +Buys. If one of those categories is missing from the board, you can try to get it from the Black Market. As mentioned before, trying to get missing +Actions from Black Market is usually not worth it. Trying to get that missing +Buy is alright, but don't neglect Provinces/Colonies. Finally, picking up terminal draw can be quite good, but should be considered more as a side goal. (I lost my train of thought here, so this point is a lot more jumbled up.)
  • Tournament. Yep, Tournament gets its own section. It's that good. I might be overdoing it, but if I see Tournament in the Black Market, I'd buy Black Market about 80% of the time. If you get the only Tournament in the game, you get exclusive access to all the Prizes. And the prizes are really good. Essentially, Tournament can be considered as a potential Curser, +Buy, +Actions...you get the idea. The best part is that because Tournament is most useful after the first Province, it is relevant over almost the entire game.

5. Fairgrounds. Black Market - Fairgrounds is very strong, and is worth considering even if there are not many Villages in the game. I'm honestly not sure how it compares to the top-tier BM decks, like Masquerade-BM, but you can get very high point-scoring Fairgrounds with Black Market out.

(Would like someone with more experience to talk about this point. My gut reaction is that you should try to always buy a card from the Black Market, but it's also important to ramp up to reach $6. I think overall, you should open Black Market/X, try to always buy from Black Market, and buy either Villages for the actions or money for the...money. When you have a solid economy, you can go nuts with 1 copy of everything.)

6. Vineyard. Vineyard likes slow games as well (ignoring Vineyard rushes with Ironworks and the like.) So Black Market can be useful in picking up lots of actions, and as a source of +Buy. Ideally, the Black Market will have lots of cantrips, or some decently strong attacks to slow down the pace of the game.

7. Tactician. So Black Market is an amazing way to fuel a Double Tactician deck. Play Black Market, play Tactician, use massive buying power from the Treasure in play. In this situation, you want at least 2 Black Markets, just to be safe. Missing a Tactician in Double-Tact hurts, but missing your source of +$ hurts a lot more.

Works with:
  • Villages + Weak Terminals
  • Fairgrounds
  • Tactician
  • Weak board/a somewhat weak engine
  • Colonies

Conflicts with:
  • Strong engine possibilities
  • Strong Big Money cards
  • Attacks (they slow down the game, but you need to pick up the Attack and at that point Black Market is less attractive.)

1931
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: 4 player with 16 Provinces?
« on: October 13, 2012, 03:50:23 pm »
I never really got why 4p doesn't have 16 provinces either.

Piles do empty a lot faster in 4p (if everyone goes for a Village Smithy engine, you're getting 2/3 of each, and then that's 2 piles gone), so you would probably need 4-piling. But if everyone takes the same amount of turns in 4p as in 2p, then that game is going to be twice as long.

1932
Dominion General Discussion / Re: What would make Scout better?
« on: October 10, 2012, 02:24:34 pm »
(On the plus side at least Pirate Ship has gotten a break since this started. Maybe it's just in the nature of things that f.ds always needs an official whipping boy.)

Yeah, I'm feeling like Scout's turn is coming to an end though. Next up is definitely Adventurer. Adventurer sucks. Adventurer is the worst.

I find it odd how neither Develop nor Fortune Teller nor even Chancellor have come up yet in this conversation.  Nor Shanty Town.  You know, Shanty Town really is the worst card for me.  Every other card I like having in my deck, or I can find a use for.  But Shanty Town is the card that can fill a required niche on a board, but always ends up being pointless.  You always draw it with one terminal.  That happens with Nobles as well, but Nobles has VP, so stfu.  I like Nobles.  With five Nobles, you can use one for Actions, the next for Cards, and let your next cards decide what you do with the rest.  If you have a hand of five Shanty Towns, just give up.  It's worse than five Rats.  I mean, the idea behind it is a good idea - draw cards if you don't have any Action cards to play off of it.  But in practice it just sucks so much ass.  Really, I don't think I've ever sworn as much at any other card (with something that wasn't an accidental "oh dammit Goko made me trash my Province to Chapel.").

Fortune teller is absolutely not a bad card. Far from the top 5 worst cards, probably close to the second half of the best $3 card. I stand by that. (And I agree with Robz on shanty town).
Personally, the only card I REALLY do not understand is navigator. Navigator sucks. Navigator is the worst.

Well in theory, Navigator is useful in engines to make sure you keep drawing engine pieces thanks to reordering. In practice, I tend to just buy more engine pieces.

It's an okay terminal silver for Hunting Party, helps you ensure you get $5 hands, but that's more a show of how good Hunting Party is.

1933
Game Reports / I buy Thief over Noble Brigand
« on: October 05, 2012, 02:03:38 am »
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201210/04/game-20121004-225842-5801341e.html

I intended to make some kind of Steward/Nobles/Rabble engine, but then I decided a situation where Thief was worth using was too rare to pass up.

This only really worked because of how my opponent played, but come on, Thief!

1934
I think the point is,

P1 has a sentry out
P1 plays Swindler
P2 turns up a Province and trashes it
-p1 gains a Province
-p2 gains a replacement Province or Peddler, but in either case P1 got a free Province

Or replace Province with (insert desirable card here)

1935
Dominion Isotropic / Re: Attention-whoring thread.... I did it!!
« on: September 29, 2012, 09:59:51 pm »
Had an amazing run yesterday (Went 10-3 or something), so I went up from level 34 to 37. All time best!

1936
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Attack definition
« on: September 26, 2012, 07:18:42 pm »
Originally, I would have said that Attacks are cards that both force your opponents to do something and apply that attack symmetrically. Except Governor and its gain Silver effect messes with that definition.

I think the real answer is that an Attack is a card that causes a symmetric effect you want to be preventable. You want to prevent Militia and Torturer effects (ignoring edge cases), but you don't want to prevent Governor (once again, ignoring decisions about whether you want Silver in a Governor mega-turn deck). Masquerade isn't preventable because if it was, Moat would ruin it. One player reveals Moat and doesn't have to pass a card, but gets a free card from someone else? That would be terrible. Possession is a combination of lack of symmetry and iffy reaction interactions. Moat stopping Possession would be somewhat annoying, and revealing a reaction like Horse Traders or Secret Chamber just makes the Possessed turn better.

Edit: I think the word to use here is "affects all players", not "symmetric effect". Consider the following card that should never be printed:

Silly Action
$2
The player to your left gains an Estate, the player 2 seats left gains a Curse, the player 3 seats left gains a Copper. This cannot cause you to gain any cards.

This should be an attack: you gain nothing, and each other player gains something bad. Sure, the things given are different, but it should be preventable. In comparison, an action that only affects 1 opponent should not be an attack. If it was, then unaffected players could get the benefits of Horse Traders and Secret Chamber at no cost.

1937
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Homage to the Best Card
« on: September 21, 2012, 09:12:44 pm »


http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201209/21/game-20120921-180800-db7cc711.html

The Masq complaint is more minor, but it's really hard to draw your entire deck when you have to play Masquerade to do it.

1938
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Homage to the Best Card
« on: September 16, 2012, 03:33:54 pm »


1939
General Discussion / Re: So M:TG is Turing-complete...
« on: September 15, 2012, 09:30:07 pm »
Unfortunately, Dominion has finite space, and can't rely on triggered effects to compute everything by itself.

Maybe with Graverobber + some play rules you can do something? The computation doesn't have to happen over the course of 1 turn either, but there's a limit on how many actions that can be played each turn. But what if you assume infinite supply piles...

[/semi-serious-comment]

1940
My card is what happens when you start with a neat idea (buying cards for cheaper than they are, but with the risk of opponents changing them into terrible ones). Then I realized that wasn't a one shot. Then I added way too much stuff to make it a one shot while still making it desirable.

I kinda like the idea of "Copy a card, get a bonus +$1 in exchange for one-shot", but it seems far too unworkable.

1941
General Discussion / Re: A joke thread
« on: September 10, 2012, 03:53:42 am »
This is the only joke I know that has some level of humor.

A boy asks his dad, "Dad, is God male or female?"
The dad thinks about this. "Son, God is whatever people want to believe in. So you could say that because some see God as male, and others see God as female, then God is both."

The boy takes this in. Then, he says, "Dad, is God white or black?"
The dad thinks about this, but for shorter than before. "Well, it's the same as before. Some see God as white, some see God as black. So God is both."

The boy pauses, then asks, "Dad, is God Michael Jackson?"

1942
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Homage to the Best Card
« on: September 06, 2012, 04:13:43 am »



But Donald comes before Doug alphabetically like X before Z, so the first name should be between Donald and Doug.

...
I got nothing

1943
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Homage to the Best Card
« on: September 03, 2012, 03:15:03 pm »
I hope I'm not repeating anybody. That would be bad!



1944
Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Cards with maximum buying value
« on: August 28, 2012, 03:24:43 pm »
Alright, well I don't remember Dark Ages cards that well, but here goes.


1. Vault - hundreds (~ all cards in kingdom)
2. Secret Chamber - hundreds (~all cards)
3. That DA cellar variant that can discard for money - hundreds (~all cards)

The actual values between 1 and 3 might not be the same, but I don't feel like figuring out which one works the best.

4. Bank - hundreds (all treasures in kingdom, < all cards)
5. Trade Route - 13 (Est, Duc, Prov, Col, 9 Kingdom victory cards)
6. Salvager - 11 (Trash col)
7. Death Cart - 5
8. Plat -5
9. Poor House - 4
10. FG - 4


Edit: OH YEAH 34/100

1945
I think the Fact or Fiction thing was from ChaosRed's expansion in the card Fool's Choice.

The card is fine. It might only need to look at 4 cards, but I'm not sure. In Big Money it's easy to play it out, but in an engine it's a lot harder to judge...

1946
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Really bad card ideas
« on: August 25, 2012, 05:57:48 pm »
Really BadAwesome Variant Idea:

Play a game of Fluxx concurrently with your game of Dominion, where each player takes a turn in Fluxx and then in Dominion. All New Rules on the Fluxx Tableau also apply to the Dominion game in progress (Draw X, Play X, X = X+1, Hand Limit 0, etc...). If you win Fluxx, gain a Province and restart the Fluxx game.
FTFY

Scrabbleminion:
Setup: Replace your starting Estates with Shelters. Each player starts with 3 VP chips. Use scrabble tiles to count VP chips.
At the start of each turn, you may spell out a word. If you do, turn those tiles face down and +1 VP for each letter used.
Whenever you would gain a basic Victory card, you may gain that many VP chips and a Curse instead.

1947
Game Reports / Re: How to play Noble Brigand Mirrors?
« on: August 25, 2012, 04:06:19 pm »
I'm not that good with the simulators, but I'll try for this one because it's actually really interesting.

I'll edit info into this post if I figure anything out.

So for starters, in Noble Brigand vs BMU you don't care about terminal collisions at all. For a short test, I took the computer-generated bot and only changed the number of Noble Brigands it buys. No change to any other buy rules. And it turns out the optimal amount of Noble Brigands is 9. Yeah, 9! It turns out that the repeated attacks from buying + playing Noble Brigand is just that good against BM.

I'm a little wary of doing a similar strategy to find the best NB mirror bot, because Province buying is determined on $ in the deck, and with NB out tracking that is a bit of a nightmare.

1948
Brooks triggers off any player, so you could use it kinda like Hoard. Brooks in hand + 2 Copper = Gold next turn. Still deciding whether that's balanced or not...

Will post more comments when I have the time.

1949
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Charity - a $1 cost card
« on: August 18, 2012, 03:10:41 pm »
It's not +1 Card +1 Buy, it's +1 Buy, choose 1 card out of 5 while cycling through your deck. I'm not sure how strong that is, but it feels more like a $2 cost. $1 and $2 aren't that different, but someone it doesn't feel quite like Poor House.

1950
Oh hey, I was right about my card. I forgot to vote, but it wouldn't have mattered.

The effect of Bartender feels sort of strong. It drops off much more late game (assuming you don't buy a 2nd or 3rd potion), but early on you could probably get a potion consistently if you discard everything except Silver. So it's pretty much a Curser early on.

Although this isn't necessarily a strike against the card, it counters itself pretty well. If Militiaed, draw back up. If Cursed, then the discard gives you a chance to get good cards.

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