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Messages - cluckyb

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51
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Homage to the Best Card
« on: October 10, 2013, 12:07:35 pm »
Here's what's in my mine... no, my mint ! Noooo, my mind

Reminds me of when the prosperity cards were first posted on BGG...the poster made a typo and put "Mind" in place of "Mint".

Should create a whole mini expansion with cards like Mine, Mind, Mint, Mink, Mime, Mist, Mitt...

52
I suspect Observatory/Fortress is pretty good.

Is there a TFB that doesn't make Fortress awesome though?  ;)

Moneylender?

I don't count that as TfB because it doesn't give a benefit depending on cost. Spice Merchant isn't a TfB either.

Trash for benefit is anything that gives you a benefit for trashing.  Chapel is not.  Moneylender is.

Chapel gives a benefit! It removes junk from your deck!

TfB is almost always used to refer to trashers that give benefit based on cost.

Well, using that definition Mine is still TfB and doesn't combo with Fortress  ;D

53
I suspect Observatory/Fortress is pretty good.

Is there a TFB that doesn't make Fortress awesome though?  ;)

54
Sorry for not voting. Got annoyed at myself for completely screwing up the wording to my card and ignored the contest for a few days  :-\

I think that Recycle is more interesting than Observatory. A duration Remodeler is certainly a cool idea. I agree that it is a little strong (its better than an Expand that takes two turns to put the gained card into your hand) but that can be tweaked away. I feel like pricing it at $6 would make it annoying expensive, so maybe just a 1 and 1 remodel.

55
Puzzles and Challenges / Re: A very strange kingdom/setup
« on: October 04, 2013, 01:07:27 pm »
Maybe Bureaucrat is still in there ... Depends on how you look at it.

Mail-mi : I can most certainly understand your frustration, I was looking at this too going : whaaaaat ? Then it suddenly hit me.

Although we do not have king's court nor council room, we can still use procession.


I think you may have it wrong; neither Procession nor Bureaucrat are available in this kingdom.

In fact, King's Court, Throne Room, Procession, and Counterfeit are all missing, so I hope you didn't want to double anything.

Golem is still there. He's close enough to doubling something, right?

Also its a little weird how there aren't any Young Witches but there are some normal Witches. I guess they moved in after growing up?

The real question is: are Envoy and Highway in the kingdom?  =)

56
I did Smelter (B). It was thrown together at the last minute when I decided I didn't really like my other ideas.

I spent a while trying to come up with a trash attack that didn't completely suck to be hit with. The idea I almost went with was a forced demodel (everyone else trashes a card from their hand and gains a card costing less than it or zero). Something like "Each other player draws up to 5 cards in their hand and then trashes a card from their hand and gains a card of their choice costing less than the trashed card or 0.". Giving them five cards to choose from stops the forced trashing from being really sucky.

The issue is that in the stated form, it'll probably just be a cutpurse. Could even help the other guy if they have curses in hand. Could add a "no trashing curses" rule, but that makes it wordy. Forcing the trashed card to cost $1 or $2 now makes the trash effect suckier. Draw KC C C C C and get hit with this and well damn. Maybe I could've done "Discards a curse from hand, or trashes a card other than a curse of their choice costing less than the trashed card or 0". That way you can't get rid of curses, but KC Curse Curse Curse Curse doesn't screw with you but ultimately I decided that forced trashing was just never much fun and I should go with the boring alternative.

57
Or, "You may trash this. If you do, at the start of your next turn, +3 Cards", so that it isn't just a Smithy that misses reshuffles and can only be used in engines on alternate turns. But then it's strictly better than Smithy so can't cost $4, but so marginally that it can't cost $5.

That's fine mechanically, but it has tracking issues: if I trash it now, it's going to be tough to remember that I'm getting +Cards on my next turn.

Don't *all* durations have that problem with procession?

Yes, but at least you leave the Procession in play to remind you that something's supposed to happen on your next turn. This leaves you with nothing, ever.

Why doesn't the procession stay out? It is still having an effect, right? Or are you trashing it in a different manner?

Because you didn't procession it. The card on its own lets you trash it and then has a next turn effect, for which you will have no reminder.

Oh, I thought you guys were talking about the current version. Yeah you need to trash it at the start of the next turn.

Is the only issue with the current version the "what if you draw your deck and play it twice" bug?

58
Or, "You may trash this. If you do, at the start of your next turn, +3 Cards", so that it isn't just a Smithy that misses reshuffles and can only be used in engines on alternate turns. But then it's strictly better than Smithy so can't cost $4, but so marginally that it can't cost $5.

That's fine mechanically, but it has tracking issues: if I trash it now, it's going to be tough to remember that I'm getting +Cards on my next turn.

Don't *all* durations have that problem with procession?

Yes, but at least you leave the Procession in play to remind you that something's supposed to happen on your next turn. This leaves you with nothing, ever.

Why doesn't the procession stay out? It is still having an effect, right? Or are you trashing it in a different manner?

59
I want to point out that Harbourmaster's original wording worked fine when the ballot first went up yesterday.  In fact, WW eventually redeveloped that wording in his video.  Why did it get changed?

No it didn't. It created a headache if you played it with Throne Room. You play it once, don't discard it, play it a second time, discard it and now you're getting +3 cards next turn and need to trash a Habormaster sitting in the middle of your deck. So lose track rule probably cancels out the trashing, but you still get the +3 cards with no way of tracking that. (Plus now you have conflicting rules saying it gets discarded and its a duration that's still in effect so it stays out).

Kirian's solution seems to work. You can trash it if its already trashed, so you still get the throne room bonus. (and for some reason if you only want a +3 throne room bonus you can get that too). Loses the ability to play it more than once per turn, but like people pointed out that causes some problems. (Maybe "If you don't, then at the start of your next turn trash this and +3 cards" would work? Then you don't have the in play issue causing the second playing of habormaster to cause problems, but you can still play it multiple times per turn if you want to do something cool with that)

Or, "You may trash this. If you do, at the start of your next turn, +3 Cards", so that it isn't just a Smithy that misses reshuffles and can only be used in engines on alternate turns. But then it's strictly better than Smithy so can't cost $4, but so marginally that it can't cost $5.

That's fine mechanically, but it has tracking issues: if I trash it now, it's going to be tough to remember that I'm getting +Cards on my next turn.

Don't *all* durations have that problem with procession?

60
I mean, yes, the forced trashing is definitely weaker against discard attacks, but it isn't really *dangerous*.

Right, like I said its just a little risky. Discard attacks don't make it any more dangerous in terms of having to trash a good card, they just make it riskier in terms of increased chance of starting the next turn with a two card hand.

61
Of course there is still a pile.  That's why the endgame conditions and City are able to refer to empty piles.  BoM refers to a card, not a pile.

hrm. I'd just think there are empty piles, not empty piles of a specific type. But I guess if the rules really do say "the Supply pile of Province cards is empty" then you're probably right here.

Of course, that makes gamestate tracking harder as you need to know which of the empty piles is for one card and which is for the other. Not impossibly so, but enough to make me a little wary. (someone couldn't show up and immediately tell the cost of everything without looking through the whole log)

62
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Clipper
Types: Action
Cost: $3
+1 Card. +1 Action. Put a Coin token on an Action card pile in the Supply.

Cards cost $1 less per Coin token on their Supply pile, but not less than $0.

Will make for fast games, that's for sure. Putting a few tokens on an expensive stack, clearing it, and then using TFB is a cute trick you could do.

Clearing it?

The Coin tokens seem to be permanent.  There's no way to clear them away.  So you might empty the pile, but they'll still be their lower cost.

Would they? For the same reason BoM can't copy an empty pile, I think once the pile is empty it is really no longer that pile, so the cost of the cards jumps back up.



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Shipyard (A)
Types: Action – Duration
Cost: $4
+1 Card. Now and at the start of your next turn, trash a card from your hand.

Forced hand trashing is a little risky. Really hurt by discard attacks. Making it optional would probably be better.
It really isn't, though, certainly not moreso than Lookout - you always have five cards to start and you KNOW that this is in play and going to trash, so you prepare for that. Obviously making it optional makes it STRONGER, but I don't know that it makes it a better card.

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Recycle
Types: Action – Duration
Cost: $5
Trash a card from your hand. Gain a card costing up to $2 more than the trashed card, setting it aside face down. At the start of your next turn, return the gained card to your hand and trash a card from your hand, gaining a card costing up to $1 more than that trashed card.

eh.... the face down potion doesn't seem necessary. Remodel the next turn into your hand is cool. Not as sure about the second turn remodel as well.
Second turn is an upgrade, and makes this a wonky 2-turn expand with options (most usually better than expand on any board featuring both)

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Martello
Types: Action – Duration
Cost: $3
Now and at the start of your next turn: +1 Action and +1 Buy.

While this is in play, when any player gains a card, you may choose for him to put that card on top of his deck. If you do, he may first discard the top card of his deck.

I don't understand this. You top deck it for him, and then he can just discard it anyways?
There's a FIRST in there - he can discard the top first, so that you can't stack up lots of junk there by using the effect multiple times (it's why sea hag discards). But the bad card goes there after he discards.

See my point about discard attacks. If you always had five cards to start your hand it would probably be alright. But while normal discard attacks you are left with your three strongest cards. It sucks, but you can recover. If I've played a Shipyard and get hit by a Militia, I'm down to only my two strongest cards.

Thanks for pointing out the FIRST. That card is still rather political in ways I'm not a big fan of (two people can alliance up and agree to help each other), but at least now it makes sense.

63
Speaking of Haven.  What happens to that set aside card if someone Shipwreck Cove's my Haven? I guess it just remains stranded until the end of the game?

It washes up on your island mat three games later

64
Doing the first halfish. One of these is my card but I think I was fair to it

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Lockbox
Types: Action – Duration
Cost: $4
Now and at the start of your next turn: +1 Buy.

When you discard this from play, if you do not buy a card this turn, you may set aside up to 3 Treasures from play. At the start of your next turn, put the set-aside Treasures into your hand.

Seems... alright. Top half is fairly boring. Bottom half is potentially useful and provides a strong 'weaker card now vs more guarantee at better card later' trade-off which is relevant both early game and late game but not sure how often its actually worth picking up.

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Star Charts
Types: Action – Duration
Cost: $5
Now and at the start of your next turn, look at the top 4 cards of your deck, discard any number of them, and put the rest back in any order.

While this is in play, when a player buys a card other than a Victory card, he gains a copy of that card, putting it on top of his deck.

Top half is cool. Getting to filter the top of your deck before your turn starts seems strong but not overpowering strong. The bottom half I'm not so sure. Could get out of hand very fast and really helps others as much as it helps you and make the game go pretty fast. I'd probably vote for this with just the top half but not sure about it with the bottom half.


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Shipwreck Cove
Types: Action – Attack – Duration
Cost: $5
+2 Cards. Each other player chooses a card he has in play and discards it. If that card would do something at the start of that player's next turn, that effect is cancelled. At the start of your next turn, +1 Action.

Eh. Not a fan of the killing durations. Feels like it would make the game less fun.


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Harbourmaster
Types: Action – Duration
Cost: $5
+3 Cards. You may discard this from play. If this is in play at the the start of your next turn, trash it and +3 Cards.

(I'm not even sure this fixes the throne room issue. You'd trash it the first time, and then it wouldn't be in play so you it wouldn't be "in play". But lets assume we can reword is so that throne room is +6 cards, either discard it from play or at the start of your next turn +6 cards and trash it which is what its supposed to be)

i like it. Might be a little weak though. +2 cards and +1 buy is worse to start your next turn than +3 Cards, but not by a whole lot. Granted Wharf is one of the strongest cards in the game so that isn't quite a big deal. I just think whereas with Mining Village you can generally know that its worthwhile trashing it, it might be annoying to trash your Habourmasters only to not actually need the help on your next turn.

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Tariff
Types: Action – Duration
Cost: $4
+$2. Choose another player. At the start of your next turn, +$1.

While this is in play, when the chosen player buys an Action or Treasure card, you my discard a card. If you do, +1 Card.

Eh, I dislike the politics. If you made it player to your left/right it would be somewhat interesting. Making it "another player buys and Action or Treasure" might also work though that could be too powerful, I'm not sure. Also the Action or Treasure card restriction seems weird and unnecessary


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Clipper
Types: Action
Cost: $3
+1 Card. +1 Action. Put a Coin token on an Action card pile in the Supply.

Cards cost $1 less per Coin token on their Supply pile, but not less than $0.

Will make for fast games, that's for sure. Putting a few tokens on an expensive stack, clearing it, and then using TFB is a cute trick you could do. But I think making it non terminal (and stay in your hand unlike Embargo) might make things just go too fast and/or help the other guy as much as it helps you so not really be worth it.

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Beacon (A)
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+1 Action.

While this is in play, keep the top card of your deck revealed. During your Action or Buy phase, when the top card of your deck is an Action or Treasure, you may discard this from play. If you do, play that card and gain a copy of it.

Trying to figure out how this works if your top card is a beacon. You play the beacon, play that as the card below it, gain the card below it and then gain the beacon right? With things like golem that might start to become really hard to track even if the idea behind it is cool.

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Cottage
Types: Action – Duration
Cost: $3
+2 Cards. +2 Actions. Put 2 cards from your hand on top of your deck. At the start of your next turn, reveal the top 2 cards of your deck. You may discard one of them. You may trash one of them. Put the rest back in any order.

As far as village types go its... alright. Doesn't really excite me at all but seems reasonable.

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Ship of the Line
Types: Action – Duration
Cost: $5
You may gain a Victory card costing less than a Province. At the start of your next turn, +3 Cards.

While this is in play, Victory cards cost $1 more.

Eh. Its alright as well. Nothing really to add.


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Investment
Types: Action
Cost: $5
You may choose an Action card from your hand. Set aside this and the chosen card on your Investment mat. Return them to your deck at the end of the game.

When you play an Action card, +$1 per copy of it on your Investment mat.

I like the idea. Without play testing I'm not really sure if its too strong (I doubt it. Its like you turn each card into its own little herablist that is hard to powerup. Sure you can turn your markets into grand markets or beyond, but that takes one would be market to get an Investment and then you lose another to increase it) or too weak, but there is certainly a cool idea there.


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Shipyard (A)
Types: Action – Duration
Cost: $4
+1 Card. Now and at the start of your next turn, trash a card from your hand.

Forced hand trashing is a little risky. Really hurt by discard attacks. Making it optional would probably be better.


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Fisherman
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+1 Buy. +$1.

When you discard this from play, put one of your Fisherman token on a Supply pile that costs $6 or less which is not a Victory card pile.

When you buy a card, gain a copy of it for each of your Fisherman tokens on that pile and remove all of your Fisherman tokens.

Clarification: Each player has his own Fisherman tokens (maybe in different colors) and you only gain copies of the bought card for YOUR tokens.

Eh, I dislike needing more tokens, needing four more token types just seems really clunky.


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Thugs
Types: Action – Attack
Cost: $4
+2 Buys. +$2. Each other player with 4 or more cards in hand discards 1 card for each card he gained last turn. Each other player with no cards in hand draws 3 cards.

Would be too hard to track and also not much fun.


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Cannon
Types: Action – Attack – Duration
Cost: $5
+1 Action. +1 Buy. At the start of your next turn, you may trash up to 2 cards that are not Curses. If you trash exactly 1 card, each other player discards down to 3 cards in hand. If you trash exactly 2 cards, each other player gains a Curse.

Just don't really like the idea of Duration attacks (i.e. ones that really attack the next turn). Don't see how they fit with the rules.


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Recycle
Types: Action – Duration
Cost: $5
Trash a card from your hand. Gain a card costing up to $2 more than the trashed card, setting it aside face down. At the start of your next turn, return the gained card to your hand and trash a card from your hand, gaining a card costing up to $1 more than that trashed card.

eh.... the face down potion doesn't seem necessary. Remodel the next turn into your hand is cool. Not as sure about the second turn remodel as well.



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Martello
Types: Action – Duration
Cost: $3
Now and at the start of your next turn: +1 Action and +1 Buy.

While this is in play, when any player gains a card, you may choose for him to put that card on top of his deck. If you do, he may first discard the top card of his deck.

I don't understand this. You top deck it for him, and then he can just discard it anyways?


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Kraken
Types: Action – Reaction
Cost: $6
+$2. Put a card from your hand on top of your deck.

When you put this on top of your deck, you may reveal it. If you do, choose a card in the Supply; each other player gains a copy of the chosen card, putting it on the bottom of his deck.


So its a curser than can switch to coppers later. Or that a jerk can use in a four player game to end the game faster cause he's board. But ignoring that, while its hard to play a lot of these if you can you could sink someone with five+ curses at the bottom of their deck (or a ton of copper). Doesn't seem much fun for him. Granted it costs $6 and is hard to activate but yeah...

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Flagship
Types: Action – Duration
Cost: $5
Set aside a card from your hand face down. At the beginning of your next turn, reveal the set aside card, then reveal cards from your deck until you reveal a copy of it. Discard the other revealed cards and either trash both copies or put them into your hand.

Makes it too easy to trigger tunnels.

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Vessel
Types: Action – Duration
Cost: $4
Now and at the start of your next turn: +1 Buy and +$1.

While this is in play, when another player gains a card costing $4 or more, gain a card costing less than it.

Might be too strong. Can make it really easy to pick up duchys in the end game.


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Mermaid
Types: Action
Cost: $2
+1 Action. Discard the top card of your deck. Put the bottom card of your deck into your hand. You may put up to 2 cards from your hand on the bottom of your deck.

Fairly simple cantrip. Not sure I see the use outside a few possible combos for clever people.


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Beacon (B)
Types: Action – Duration
Cost: $2
+2 Cards. At the start of your next turn, +1 Card and put a card from your hand on top of your deck.

While this is in play, when you gain a card, trash that card or put it on top of your deck.

Half Moat half Watchtower. Feels kinda like a been there/done that.

65
Just glancing over cards for now

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Harbourmaster
Types: Action – Duration
Cost: $5
+3 Cards. You may discard this from play. If you don't, then at the start of your next turn, trash this and +3 Cards.

think the wording on this one should be cleaned up a bit. Something like either "At the start of your next turn, if this card is in play trash it and +3 Card" or "At the start of your next turn, if this card is in play trash it. If you do +3 Cards" but wouldn't you be able to throne room this, don't discard it, then discard it and somehow have to track that its getting trashed and you get +3 cards at the start of your next turn?



66
Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Necropolis Play During First Reshuffle
« on: September 25, 2013, 08:54:33 pm »
If Baker is in the game and your opponent isn't looking, you can steal their coin token and buy a peddler =)

67
Puzzles and Challenges / Re: A very strange kingdom/setup
« on: September 25, 2013, 12:39:26 am »
Is Mandarin in the kingdom but Count is not?

(I could have found a totally unrelated connection here)

I think you've solved the puzzle. ;)

I know you said Colonies aren't in the kingdom, but there is one Colony, right?

68
Approximately 115 minutes of content for me to trim down for my thoughts on these cards...

Maybe it was just me, but I felt like these cards were of somewhat lower quality overall than the first two contests. Many more cards just struck me as duds and the like, and fewer jumped out as really cool ideas. No offence to everyone intended, maybe it's just Dark Ages is harder to make cards for.

I think its this. I know I had a much harder time coming up with a cool idea this round.

69
I also am totally willing to trade feedback on someone else card for feedback on my own =)

70
So I'm curious if people have ideas on how to make the "reaction that lets you gain a card into hand" part of Factory work cause I thought it was pretty cool when I made it

Clearly the reaction needs to leave your hand after use. Otherwise you can use it to piledrive ironworks. Set aside doesn't really work, cause when would you return it. I like topdeck better than discard because it makes it still marginally useful in your buy phase because you can save the factory for next turn. That being said, using the reaction just to save the card for the next turn is pretty weak and thus the top half clearly needs to be a gainer so that it works in games without other in-turn gainers.

The +1 action on the top half is also pretty important to the self-combo (and it needs to self combo because there aren't necessarily other gainers). Otherwise, without villages gaining an action into hand doesn't help because you don't have any actions to play the gained card with. Now having the +1 action, it needs to be harder to spam thus being a straight up workshop isn't a good choice. Which is why I wanted the discard and that lent itself perfectly with the mint style gaining. Can't let it gain victory cards though, as that is really strong in the end-game.

So yeah, this certainly isn't meant to be a "my card was perfectly thoughtout and everyone should be ashamed for not voting for it". I'm just curious what people didn't like about it. I'm also wondering what the best way to defend our cards is during the discussion session. Like, one guy said the on-play needed to be terminal but I didn't want to reply pointing out why it was non-terminal cause that would give away which card I made which I can't do.

71
Mini-Set Design Contest / Re: Tweaking Diviner
« on: September 16, 2013, 12:31:38 pm »
One possible issue with the second version is that it that if you have say, four in play, drawing eight cards will likely trigger a reshuffle that you don't want. Or maybe one you do want. But it makes it riskier to play a bunch of diviners because then whatever card you buy will miss a shuffle.

Hmm, that's fair. The benefit probably outweighs the detriment, though.

Does revealing eight cards really take that much less time than revealing two cards four times? Or is the concern just that benefit gets lost because you have two cards you want sitting on top of your deck?

72
Mini-Set Design Contest / Re: Tweaking Diviner
« on: September 16, 2013, 12:24:03 pm »
One possible issue with the second version is that it that if you have say, four in play, drawing eight cards will likely trigger a reshuffle that you don't want. Or maybe one you do want. But it makes it riskier to play a bunch of diviners because then whatever card you buy will miss a shuffle.

73
Wow, it's surprising that the card that won wasn't any of the cards that was talked about the most. I was pretty much expecting ULS to win. Congrats!

I feel like the ones that generate a lot of discussion are bound to get some votes, but the fact that they are getting discussed means they have possible flaws or super interesting mechanics, whereas the card that one is rather plain but still works.

course I shouldn't talk cause I forgot to vote. now watch my card have been the tied one  ;)

74
I don't really see the benefit of this. The expected margin of victory is just too varied depending on the kingdom. Things like piling on the score are just no fun for the loser, whereas taking those risks that give you the 60% chance of victory are what can make the game exciting.

Or even in simpler cases, say you're up +5 points from the last game. There are two provinces left and you're down a duchy. Duchy dancing really isn't the proper move here. If you buy a duchy, the other guy can possibly win by 9 if you get a poor hand next turn. Better to hedge your bets and just lose by three. So you wind up taking the boring safe approach.

The idea of doing the same kingdom twice (alternating first player), and adding those scores I think is reasonable. But a whole tournament like that sounds broken and not much fun.

75
Man, I can see why rinkworks burned out after running a contest like this.

Perhaps you could get some volunteers (who are active enough that you could trust them) to run various rounds? 

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